Here is what could be an interesting topic. What do you believe happens to "us" after we die?
I think this can be an interesting topic for everyone's thoughts.
-phil
August 22, 2009: Just an update. I'm very happy that so many people responded and that many have found this to be an interesting topic. This is more than I had hoped for when I created this thread. I'm also VERY happy that CSN decided to create this space for us to talk about topics like these since most of us have had a brush with our own mortality.
Thanks again to everyone who has posted here
-phil
Comments
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I don't know exactly but do
I don't know exactly but do know we go on to another existence. I make assumptions because of my personal experiences. But these could change because they are assumptions. I've heard other's views on this but since I kind of know you guys in a way, I will find it interesting to hear your views also.0 -
Aftermath
Well, Phil, as I explained to my wife, "If I should go before you and it turns out there is an afterlife, I will tap on your left shoulder twice. If there is not an afterlife, I will only tap on it once."
Ba-da-bing.
Seriously, to borrow from Sting, I am afraid we become 'food for carrion crows', at least figuratively. As an unknower, this is the most crucial element, I think, of my envy for those who are true believers. In addition to the Aloneness factor, this fear of the ultimate unknown is one of the keys in the creation of superstition and religion in the very beginning of sensate history, in my humble opinion. The creation of mores that helped community to exist and for men to live side by side in more or less harmony were bonuses, if you will.
Take care,
Joe0 -
Where do we go?
Marcia, I think there is something, what, I don't know.
Joe, I like your answer in regard to tapping your wife on the shoulder.
I believe that our energy or consciousness to somewhere. Where/what that place is, I have no idea at all. Isn't there a law in physics that states energy can neither be created or destroyed. I'm not sure if it would apply in this case but I find it hard to believe that "the show is over, lights out. Everybody go home now".
Joe, you have a valid point too.
I wonder if what ever one believes is what happens to each of us?
Like the guitar Joe, what kind is it and do you play much?
Thanks Marcia and Joe for responding. Let's see if others will play ;-)0 -
belief in afterlife
Hi Phil,
Interesting topic (and safe to talk about on this board, I hope!:)
My beliefs are what most would consider traditional Christian beliefs, with heaven and hell.
I also hold the belief that is unpopular with most in today's society that "being good" doesn't make the cut of who ends up in heaven. I believe that God is fair to those who were innocent (too young, mentally/emotionally disadvantaged, never heard of Jesus, etc.), but that all others will be judged by how they responded to the news of the need for Jesus for salvation. Jesus says in the new testament, "No one comes to the Father, but through Me". That belief makes a lot of people upset in thinking it isn't fair. I didn't make it up- so people who say they're Christians have to decide whether they choose to believe all of Jesus' words or just the parts they like.
I do believe that our soul is eternal and will continue on living after our bodies die. Do I know what I will look like in the afterlife? Not really, but I believe it will be a spirit body- maybe even like a ghost's, perhaps.
Interestingly, I also believe in ghosts and believe that they could be a person's spirit. Perhaps what some people see or feel could be either angelic or demonic- or at least another spirit of some kind. I definitely believe there are other spirit beings in addition to humans on the earth and perhaps even elsewhere in the universe.
I think it's a fascinating topic. I think even people who don't like to think about spiritual things- if they forced themselves to- would think that of all the vastness that makes up our universe, that certainly there has to be more out there than just us humans.
I could go on and on, but I'd get off on a tangent (which I've be known to do before!)
Let's see who else chimes in with their thoughts and/or beliefs!
Lisa0 -
So you want to play ehhhhh
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, it is my belief that when we pass from this world we go to Heaven or Hell. For me this has always been how I feel, I cannot recall a time when I did not know in my heart that God existed and that he cared for me. There is a passage in the bible that says "for we walk by faith not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7. I personally do not need evidence it is just something I know in the deepest core of my being. I have had experiences that are not explainable except by faith and intercession. Here is one simple example: About 15 years ago while on my lunch break with my dearest friend we were walking around town together getting our exercise and chatting up a storm as women sometimes do, we came to a traffic light and waited for it to turn green for us to cross. Once it did still chatting we proceeded to cross in the crosswalk; about 4 steps in we both stopped cold in our tracks and ceased to speak in that fraction of a second a car flew past us so close we felt the breeze of it as it passed, quietly without conversation we continued across the street to the other side. I looked at my dear friend and asked her why she stopped walking when she did she had no idea nor did I. Neither of us had heard or seen the car, yet we stopped quite calmly just short of being directly in its path. We still occasionally talk about this and marvel at why it occurred, we have no answer other than divine intervention. I suppose when I leave this world I will find out.
Wishing you the best,
RE0 -
Yes, it's safe herelisa42 said:belief in afterlife
Hi Phil,
Interesting topic (and safe to talk about on this board, I hope!:)
My beliefs are what most would consider traditional Christian beliefs, with heaven and hell.
I also hold the belief that is unpopular with most in today's society that "being good" doesn't make the cut of who ends up in heaven. I believe that God is fair to those who were innocent (too young, mentally/emotionally disadvantaged, never heard of Jesus, etc.), but that all others will be judged by how they responded to the news of the need for Jesus for salvation. Jesus says in the new testament, "No one comes to the Father, but through Me". That belief makes a lot of people upset in thinking it isn't fair. I didn't make it up- so people who say they're Christians have to decide whether they choose to believe all of Jesus' words or just the parts they like.
I do believe that our soul is eternal and will continue on living after our bodies die. Do I know what I will look like in the afterlife? Not really, but I believe it will be a spirit body- maybe even like a ghost's, perhaps.
Interestingly, I also believe in ghosts and believe that they could be a person's spirit. Perhaps what some people see or feel could be either angelic or demonic- or at least another spirit of some kind. I definitely believe there are other spirit beings in addition to humans on the earth and perhaps even elsewhere in the universe.
I think it's a fascinating topic. I think even people who don't like to think about spiritual things- if they forced themselves to- would think that of all the vastness that makes up our universe, that certainly there has to be more out there than just us humans.
I could go on and on, but I'd get off on a tangent (which I've be known to do before!)
Let's see who else chimes in with their thoughts and/or beliefs!
Lisa
This shouldn't be a place for judgment or ridicule about someone's beliefs. There may be some dialog like Joe and I had and I think/hope that all will respect this and engage in it if they want to and also feel free to say "it's my belief and that's that". Some of the folks that I would LOVE to visit here have not but that is their choice or maybe they are not aware of this part of the site.
Thanks for sharing Lisa.
-phil0 -
Let's get ready to RUMBLE....RE said:So you want to play ehhhhh
I am a believer in Jesus Christ, it is my belief that when we pass from this world we go to Heaven or Hell. For me this has always been how I feel, I cannot recall a time when I did not know in my heart that God existed and that he cared for me. There is a passage in the bible that says "for we walk by faith not by sight" II Corinthians 5:7. I personally do not need evidence it is just something I know in the deepest core of my being. I have had experiences that are not explainable except by faith and intercession. Here is one simple example: About 15 years ago while on my lunch break with my dearest friend we were walking around town together getting our exercise and chatting up a storm as women sometimes do, we came to a traffic light and waited for it to turn green for us to cross. Once it did still chatting we proceeded to cross in the crosswalk; about 4 steps in we both stopped cold in our tracks and ceased to speak in that fraction of a second a car flew past us so close we felt the breeze of it as it passed, quietly without conversation we continued across the street to the other side. I looked at my dear friend and asked her why she stopped walking when she did she had no idea nor did I. Neither of us had heard or seen the car, yet we stopped quite calmly just short of being directly in its path. We still occasionally talk about this and marvel at why it occurred, we have no answer other than divine intervention. I suppose when I leave this world I will find out.
Wishing you the best,
RE
RE, thanks for posting your thoughts. I've had so many more unexplainable things happen to me since I was diagnosed. It's like I'm tuned into something that I wasn't before. I do not feel my is from "above" but that is not to say that it isn't. It could be and I just choose to read it as some telepathic (or telepathetic) happening.
The best to you too and again, thanks for sharing.
-phil0 -
off topic a bitPhillieG said:Let's get ready to RUMBLE....
RE, thanks for posting your thoughts. I've had so many more unexplainable things happen to me since I was diagnosed. It's like I'm tuned into something that I wasn't before. I do not feel my is from "above" but that is not to say that it isn't. It could be and I just choose to read it as some telepathic (or telepathetic) happening.
The best to you too and again, thanks for sharing.
-phil
Hey Phil, saw your cloud photo's posted two of my own for you to check out. Enjoy your weekend.
RE0 -
Believe
I believe in Jesus Christ as my Redeemer and Savior. I believe in Heaven and Hell.
I don't know exactly what happens at the moment we die but believe there is a final destiny beyond here.
I have small children and believe single most important responsibility I have to them is to make certain they have as clear of an understanding of my belief as they can at 5 yrs and 8 yrs. One of the blessings with my diagnosis, was that there became a real sense of urgency with this. It opened up a deep dialogue about death that, otherwise would have been easy to delay.
Essentially, I taught them that I don't have all of the answers but I believe, and, when my time comes, I will "wait for Jesus" and when their time comes, I believe they too, should "wait for Jesus"
We compared it to "waiting for mommy" when I pick them up from school.
"Don't get distracted", "Don't leave with a stranger", "Don't be afraid, just wait"
I find great comfort in knowing they know Jesus in this way.
I am positive they would not yet, if not for my diagnosis.
We have talked about the fact that these are MY beliefs in MY heart and, that others believe differently. We have talked about the fact that THEY must find their own beliefs in their own hearts and that they should not just say they believe because I believe because it is what is in their heart that matters to God.
My son made up his own mind one evening when I tucked him in after prayers and he said, "no offense, Mom, but I love God more than you" (relief came over me) and I said, "that's an interesting thing to say. Why" and he said "because God takes care of you so you can take care of me" -
Interesting Topic, Phil. I appreciate reading all of the different beliefs.
KC0 -
That's beautifulfaithandprayer said:Believe
I believe in Jesus Christ as my Redeemer and Savior. I believe in Heaven and Hell.
I don't know exactly what happens at the moment we die but believe there is a final destiny beyond here.
I have small children and believe single most important responsibility I have to them is to make certain they have as clear of an understanding of my belief as they can at 5 yrs and 8 yrs. One of the blessings with my diagnosis, was that there became a real sense of urgency with this. It opened up a deep dialogue about death that, otherwise would have been easy to delay.
Essentially, I taught them that I don't have all of the answers but I believe, and, when my time comes, I will "wait for Jesus" and when their time comes, I believe they too, should "wait for Jesus"
We compared it to "waiting for mommy" when I pick them up from school.
"Don't get distracted", "Don't leave with a stranger", "Don't be afraid, just wait"
I find great comfort in knowing they know Jesus in this way.
I am positive they would not yet, if not for my diagnosis.
We have talked about the fact that these are MY beliefs in MY heart and, that others believe differently. We have talked about the fact that THEY must find their own beliefs in their own hearts and that they should not just say they believe because I believe because it is what is in their heart that matters to God.
My son made up his own mind one evening when I tucked him in after prayers and he said, "no offense, Mom, but I love God more than you" (relief came over me) and I said, "that's an interesting thing to say. Why" and he said "because God takes care of you so you can take care of me" -
Interesting Topic, Phil. I appreciate reading all of the different beliefs.
KC
Thank you for your response KC
-phil0 -
SpectacularRE said:off topic a bit
Hey Phil, saw your cloud photo's posted two of my own for you to check out. Enjoy your weekend.
RE
I checked them out and made a comment. Very wonderful, thanks.
I think we often overlook people's expressions page on this site.0 -
GuitarPhillieG said:Where do we go?
Marcia, I think there is something, what, I don't know.
Joe, I like your answer in regard to tapping your wife on the shoulder.
I believe that our energy or consciousness to somewhere. Where/what that place is, I have no idea at all. Isn't there a law in physics that states energy can neither be created or destroyed. I'm not sure if it would apply in this case but I find it hard to believe that "the show is over, lights out. Everybody go home now".
Joe, you have a valid point too.
I wonder if what ever one believes is what happens to each of us?
Like the guitar Joe, what kind is it and do you play much?
Thanks Marcia and Joe for responding. Let's see if others will play ;-)
That, Phil, is just a Yamaha model CJ-838Sii. A friend GAVE it to me, many moons ago, and it surplanted my other guitars as my favorite. The giving of it is a rich story in its own right.
I am picking it back up after a lengthy hiatus. And I am enjoying it. I am discovering artists I should have known about 30 years ago, some of whom I knew but paid no attention to, others that are complete revelations, and just like a babe in toyland with some of this.
Recently, while picking through some Guy Clark stuff, my wife commented that I sounded like I used to (prior to the tongue/neck surgery in 05). I suppose that that was an attempt at a morale boost, but even I thought I was getting it, so who knows.
Take care,
Joe0 -
Out of...faithandprayer said:Believe
I believe in Jesus Christ as my Redeemer and Savior. I believe in Heaven and Hell.
I don't know exactly what happens at the moment we die but believe there is a final destiny beyond here.
I have small children and believe single most important responsibility I have to them is to make certain they have as clear of an understanding of my belief as they can at 5 yrs and 8 yrs. One of the blessings with my diagnosis, was that there became a real sense of urgency with this. It opened up a deep dialogue about death that, otherwise would have been easy to delay.
Essentially, I taught them that I don't have all of the answers but I believe, and, when my time comes, I will "wait for Jesus" and when their time comes, I believe they too, should "wait for Jesus"
We compared it to "waiting for mommy" when I pick them up from school.
"Don't get distracted", "Don't leave with a stranger", "Don't be afraid, just wait"
I find great comfort in knowing they know Jesus in this way.
I am positive they would not yet, if not for my diagnosis.
We have talked about the fact that these are MY beliefs in MY heart and, that others believe differently. We have talked about the fact that THEY must find their own beliefs in their own hearts and that they should not just say they believe because I believe because it is what is in their heart that matters to God.
My son made up his own mind one evening when I tucked him in after prayers and he said, "no offense, Mom, but I love God more than you" (relief came over me) and I said, "that's an interesting thing to say. Why" and he said "because God takes care of you so you can take care of me" -
Interesting Topic, Phil. I appreciate reading all of the different beliefs.
KC
the mouths of babes...0 -
Alive and well
Hi Phil,
Interesting eternal question. So here's the deal, I put my faith that Jesus is who he said he was and when he died on the cross for us he said, and I quote from my King James Bible,
"It is finished."
He didn't say, it is finished now say the sinner's prayer, the four spiritual laws, speak in tongues, cover your head woman, put some money in the plate and you shall see me in paradise. Nope. He didn't.
John 12:47 "And if anyone hears My words, and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world."
What I love about Jesus the Radical is the folks he took most to task--the religious--really got an earful. I'm not so sure they were listening very well. HA! I find that such delicious irony; and who often abuses us the most with His words? The religious.
I have read the Bible for a good part of my 47 years and I believe it more so than ever that there is SO much open for interpretation. So often verses are taken out of context (such as the ones I quoted) to be used against certain populations. Manipulation with the Word is an age old story.
Really, what do we know about heaven? All I know is that I put my faith and trust in Jesus and I try to follow his greatest commandment--to love others as I love myself. That doesn't mean to love others who think like me. I have to admit though that I have a real hard time loving others who want me dead due to their religious beliefs. That one I struggle with. We're ALL children of God. If God is Love, unconditionally, then I believe we ALL meet him when our bodies die and our spirits go back to whence they came because Jesus made it possible. But because I believe in Jesus I get to live, on earth, in His light. I get to feel His love and His presence in my life and give him the credit.
When he was hanging on the cross with the two criminals by his side he wasn't making them say some sinner's prayer to get to paradise.....he TOLD them they would be there with him that day.
THAT, to me, IS THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL! I think Christians kinda got it mixed up and muddied and out came some hoops to jump through in order to get to paradise. Jesus said it was finished. Done. Nothing to add to it. I'm so there! :-) and so are you!
Now, if you want to live out his life on earth, then you decide to follow him. But I believe that when he said "no one gets to the Father except through me", he was telling his disciples that he was it....no amount of their do-gooding, hoop-jumping, prayer-worshiping, money-paying would do the trick. Nope. He was the end-all and NOTHING we could do would get us there (nothing).
So heaven is gonna be blast according to Larry Norman. Check out his '70s tell-it-like-it-is music. Radical!
My spirit energy will be set free from my flesh and then I will know what we cannot know on earth. Until then, I will try to do John 13:34 and make my own little corner as heavenly as possible.
As for hell--just ask the people of Darfur where hell is. They'll tell you.
peace, emily0 -
Aw shucks2bhealed said:Alive and well
Hi Phil,
Interesting eternal question. So here's the deal, I put my faith that Jesus is who he said he was and when he died on the cross for us he said, and I quote from my King James Bible,
"It is finished."
He didn't say, it is finished now say the sinner's prayer, the four spiritual laws, speak in tongues, cover your head woman, put some money in the plate and you shall see me in paradise. Nope. He didn't.
John 12:47 "And if anyone hears My words, and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world."
What I love about Jesus the Radical is the folks he took most to task--the religious--really got an earful. I'm not so sure they were listening very well. HA! I find that such delicious irony; and who often abuses us the most with His words? The religious.
I have read the Bible for a good part of my 47 years and I believe it more so than ever that there is SO much open for interpretation. So often verses are taken out of context (such as the ones I quoted) to be used against certain populations. Manipulation with the Word is an age old story.
Really, what do we know about heaven? All I know is that I put my faith and trust in Jesus and I try to follow his greatest commandment--to love others as I love myself. That doesn't mean to love others who think like me. I have to admit though that I have a real hard time loving others who want me dead due to their religious beliefs. That one I struggle with. We're ALL children of God. If God is Love, unconditionally, then I believe we ALL meet him when our bodies die and our spirits go back to whence they came because Jesus made it possible. But because I believe in Jesus I get to live, on earth, in His light. I get to feel His love and His presence in my life and give him the credit.
When he was hanging on the cross with the two criminals by his side he wasn't making them say some sinner's prayer to get to paradise.....he TOLD them they would be there with him that day.
THAT, to me, IS THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL! I think Christians kinda got it mixed up and muddied and out came some hoops to jump through in order to get to paradise. Jesus said it was finished. Done. Nothing to add to it. I'm so there! :-) and so are you!
Now, if you want to live out his life on earth, then you decide to follow him. But I believe that when he said "no one gets to the Father except through me", he was telling his disciples that he was it....no amount of their do-gooding, hoop-jumping, prayer-worshiping, money-paying would do the trick. Nope. He was the end-all and NOTHING we could do would get us there (nothing).
So heaven is gonna be blast according to Larry Norman. Check out his '70s tell-it-like-it-is music. Radical!
My spirit energy will be set free from my flesh and then I will know what we cannot know on earth. Until then, I will try to do John 13:34 and make my own little corner as heavenly as possible.
As for hell--just ask the people of Darfur where hell is. They'll tell you.
peace, emily
Did I scare everyone away? Did everyone go home? Where is everyone? :-)
I didn't mean to sound preachy.0 -
It's slow here sometimes.2bhealed said:Aw shucks
Did I scare everyone away? Did everyone go home? Where is everyone? :-)
I didn't mean to sound preachy.
It's slow here sometimes. Ok, I'll tell you about a dream I had. In a nutshell I was in this building with archways and I was afraid of the giant dinosaur that roamed around outside. I was sent to earth to bring back the cake. While on earth I had a lot of trouble and problems and didn't bring back the cake. I was afraid the lady that sent me would make me go again so I said 'so-and-so' was coming to the party and she could bring the cake. The lady accepted this and I was happy and went to dance with the little dinosaurs who shared the building. I was no longer afraid of the giant one but watchful to stay out of its way. The little dinosaurs were no longer afraid of the big one either and we all danced together.0 -
To Emily- not preachy!2bhealed said:Aw shucks
Did I scare everyone away? Did everyone go home? Where is everyone? :-)
I didn't mean to sound preachy.
Hi Emily,
I don't think you sounded preachy- this board is for sharing our thoughts and beliefs! I'm sure you well remember all of our exchanges a few months back!
Actually, much of what you just shared above I feel a little differently about now than when we had our exchanges a few months back. Life is an ongoing journey, isn't it?! I do believe, though, when Jesus said, "It is finished", when he died on the cross, that was referring to his life and work on earth. Yes, he did pay the price for us right then and there, so yes, that part was finished. Jesus did say while he was on earth, however, that "No one comes to the Father, but through me". I don't believe we need to work our way into heaven by our good deeds, works, hoops to jump through, etc., as many people get hung up on. Remember, Jesus had told Nicodeum in John 3:3, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." In John 3:18, it says,"Whoever believes in himis not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son". I believe when we talked months ago about much of this, our difference was on whether or not you have to pray to receive Jesus. I think, with what I hear you saying today, that our difference may really be more just semantics, not neccessarily a true difference. Romans 10:9 says, "If you confess with your mouth 'Jesus is Lord' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." As you mentioned the thief on the cross, he was saved because at that moment he believed.
Christians get so caught up in their "Christian lingo", that many have a very hard time getting past the lingo and what it actually means, I believe. The "four spiritual laws" are most definitely Biblically based, but these "laws" themselves are not mentioned in the Bible. Praying to confess our sins and then receive Jesus into our heart and lives is an act of "confessing with our mouth". It is merely believing, then acting upon that belief.
Emily, the one thought I have for you, though, is to not give up completely on going to church! Just because you have gotten weird vibes from people at church isn't a reason to "throw out the baby with the bathwater", so to speak! We are also commanded to worship and have fellowship with other believers. Remember, "where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am among the midst of them". Now that's certainly not to say that He isn't present for us when we pray alone, but I think it's representative of how God believes it's important to also gather together and worship in tandem with other believers. I know that can definitely be done in ways other than attending church on Sunday mornings, but I really believe that we should be attending a church to worship together and be spiritually fed. Now, if the church you were attending wasn't doing that for you, then I'd recommend searching for a new church. You have so much to offer as a kind, loving person, that I believe you could bring a lot to another church body of believers. Yes, as you said, it was the "religious" folks that Jesus used to get so upset at! More so than nonbelievers- nonbelievers had an excuse- the church leaders didn't! But just remember that even people who are Christians or even church leaders are just imperfect people like everyone else. We're all going through this adventure in life as believers together.
Take care Emily- know, also, that I'm continuing to pray for your son's full recovery from his bike accident and for your strept infection also (I commented on that in your colorectal board thread).
Lisa 0 -
Interesting responses
The majority of the responses are those of a Christian belief (not that there's anything wrong with that). I wonder where all of the Buddhists, Agnostics, Atheists are. I'd love to hear from them. I wonder how many faiths other than Christian even come to this board? My experience is that there are few non-Christians here. Also, like Maria said, it's sometimes slow here. Not many of the "usual suspects" bother to visit. I think they feel like it's punishment to post here, they want to post their views where the cancer questions are supposed to be (IMO).
-p
Emily, you didn't scare anyone away.
Marcia, wow...some dream. They can be so complex at times it seems0 -
I think we have angels and
I think we have angels and also a guide with us in this life and they are all around us. I beleive in our love ones able to commucation with us after they pass on. I beleive their is a higher plane of life and we are here to help us move on to become better loving and caring. Yes, God is all around us too. We have a lot of support from the spirit world. Hope I don't sound crazy, I have a hard time putting thoughts into words. Am I making any since to anybody??0 -
Hi WhichWitchwhichwitch said:I think we have angels and
I think we have angels and also a guide with us in this life and they are all around us. I beleive in our love ones able to commucation with us after they pass on. I beleive their is a higher plane of life and we are here to help us move on to become better loving and caring. Yes, God is all around us too. We have a lot of support from the spirit world. Hope I don't sound crazy, I have a hard time putting thoughts into words. Am I making any since to anybody??
You certainly do not sound any crazier than the rest of us.
I'm not sure if I answered your question but you are in good company ;-)
There are no right or wrong answers, it's just what each of us believes. I do not know of anyone who died, went wherever, and can came back to tell everyone what, if anything, happened.
Thanks for taking the time to comment WW
-phil0
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