Here is what could be an interesting topic. What do you believe happens to "us" after we die?

PhillieG

dasspears said:

Still no explanation.....
We die....we go somewhere...Where? Do I have to work?? Do I get to enjoy my hobbies?? Or am I floating around forever in some nebulous form? Is there a second end? Maybe I get to meet Mark Twain or Winston Churchill.

I have absolutely nothing to contribute regarding what happens when we die. We talk about eternal life - but what does that really mean?

Maybe it's like the movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray - although I hope not! Or perhaps we no longer exist - like a candle we are extinguished. And the next generation carries on.

Dasspears
"I have absolutely nothing to contribute regarding what happens when we die."
BS!!!!!
You certainly have something to contribute. This isn't a quiz with right or wrong answers.
You said "We die....we go somewhere...Where? Do I have to work?? Do I get to enjoy my hobbies?? Or am I floating around forever in some nebulous form? Is there a second end? Maybe I get to meet Mark Twain or Winston Churchill."
I surely HOPE we do not have to work. I think that maybe that might be what Hell is ;-)
So maybe we do get to meet people we've always wanted to meet. Who knows? No one KNOWS the real answer who still is alive.

You have many ideas of what may happen, thanks for adding them to the list of possibilities.
-p

Buzzard

sure_hope said:

Do Humans Become Angels?
This is the link to a great article that gives the Bibles viewpoint to this question.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608b/article_01.htm

No they don't...
and thats only if you believe in what the Bible tells us...there is a certain number of angels, no more no less, they never die so they are never replaced.

PhillieG

Buzzard said:

No they don't...
and thats only if you believe in what the Bible tells us...there is a certain number of angels, no more no less, they never die so they are never replaced.

Buzz
Thanks for stopping by and sharing.
-phil

soccerfreaks

dasspears said:

Still no explanation.....
We die....we go somewhere...Where? Do I have to work?? Do I get to enjoy my hobbies?? Or am I floating around forever in some nebulous form? Is there a second end? Maybe I get to meet Mark Twain or Winston Churchill.

I have absolutely nothing to contribute regarding what happens when we die. We talk about eternal life - but what does that really mean?

Maybe it's like the movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray - although I hope not! Or perhaps we no longer exist - like a candle we are extinguished. And the next generation carries on.

(haven't liked elton since yellow brick road)


Despite Phil's rather emotional (but well-intentioned) outburst, you are correct in the final analysis. None of us has anything to contribute by the standards you imply, since none of us has died and therefore cannot share in the experience, if there is one to share.

We CAN believe, however, which is quite a different thing from knowing. And we can HOPE, which is quite a different thing from knowing.

We can also speculate, which is what Phil was getting at when he started this thread (I think). And that is what he means by his strident insistence that you can contribute, I think. Anyone, in fact, can say whatever one wants to say, and it is valid here.

I find that both amusing and food for further thought. Whenever I am hungry.

Take care and be well,

Joe

DennisR

soccerfreaks said:

(haven't liked elton since yellow brick road)


Despite Phil's rather emotional (but well-intentioned) outburst, you are correct in the final analysis. None of us has anything to contribute by the standards you imply, since none of us has died and therefore cannot share in the experience, if there is one to share.

We CAN believe, however, which is quite a different thing from knowing. And we can HOPE, which is quite a different thing from knowing.

We can also speculate, which is what Phil was getting at when he started this thread (I think). And that is what he means by his strident insistence that you can contribute, I think. Anyone, in fact, can say whatever one wants to say, and it is valid here.

I find that both amusing and food for further thought. Whenever I am hungry.

Take care and be well,

Joe

Hey Joe,
I noticed there's a
Hey Joe,
I noticed there's a study being done on people who have experienced clinical death and came back to life with reports of out of body experiences such as hovering over their bodies etc.
Apparently a Scientist is going to place certain unusual objects or projections on the floor in rooms of hundreds of patients who are likely candidates for experiencing clinical death to see if they are able to identify any of the objects that were placed in the room while they were under anesthesia before their operations etc. should they have the dubious fortune to survive and come back from clinical death. I believe the study is called AWARE and is being directed by a Dr Sam Parnia of the Weill Cornell Medical center.
Should be an interesting experiment. I don't know anything else about it, but I'm going to do some research.
DennisR

soccerfreaks

DennisR said:

Hey Joe,
I noticed there's a
Hey Joe,
I noticed there's a study being done on people who have experienced clinical death and came back to life with reports of out of body experiences such as hovering over their bodies etc.
Apparently a Scientist is going to place certain unusual objects or projections on the floor in rooms of hundreds of patients who are likely candidates for experiencing clinical death to see if they are able to identify any of the objects that were placed in the room while they were under anesthesia before their operations etc. should they have the dubious fortune to survive and come back from clinical death. I believe the study is called AWARE and is being directed by a Dr Sam Parnia of the Weill Cornell Medical center.
Should be an interesting experiment. I don't know anything else about it, but I'm going to do some research.
DennisR

Thanks, Dennis
I will have to look into that. I was in an induced coma for four days following my first surgery (head/neck cancer) and can tell you for sure that I was not, in fact, in the sort of coma that we associate with the word: I was not brain-dead, but, rather, experiencing, quite painfully (in an emotional sense) and 'real-ly' a number of amazing things that I was so convinced were true that when I finally came to in the step-down unit, I assumed that my wife, who had spent all of that time by my very side, had decided to leave me: all because of some bizzare dream I had while in that coma (it is beyond pyschoanalysis, I think, since it happened in '05 and even back then Robert Downey, Jr. was one of my doctors and conspiring to kill me, among my other notions).

To be honest, the entire two weeks in the hospital, I did not ask my wife if she was leaving, I was so certain, and only got around to the discussion in the car ride on the way home from the hospital.

Interesting. I am open.

Take care and thanks for the head's up,

Joe

slickwilly

soccerfreaks said:

Thanks, Dennis
I will have to look into that. I was in an induced coma for four days following my first surgery (head/neck cancer) and can tell you for sure that I was not, in fact, in the sort of coma that we associate with the word: I was not brain-dead, but, rather, experiencing, quite painfully (in an emotional sense) and 'real-ly' a number of amazing things that I was so convinced were true that when I finally came to in the step-down unit, I assumed that my wife, who had spent all of that time by my very side, had decided to leave me: all because of some bizzare dream I had while in that coma (it is beyond pyschoanalysis, I think, since it happened in '05 and even back then Robert Downey, Jr. was one of my doctors and conspiring to kill me, among my other notions).

To be honest, the entire two weeks in the hospital, I did not ask my wife if she was leaving, I was so certain, and only got around to the discussion in the car ride on the way home from the hospital.

Interesting. I am open.

Take care and thanks for the head's up,

Joe

Visions
My grandmother was not a woman of any faith. In fact she was proubly only in churches for weddings and funerals. She was more of a believer in a stiff afternoon drink ha ha. She was about to pass away and my mother was sitting beside her. My grandmother asked who the man was standing at the end of her bed. There was no one there so my mother asked for a description. Here is what she said. Its a man with a long bread and he is wearing white robes. He is reaching his arms out towards me like he wants me to go with him. She passed on that evening. I put that under "things that make you go Hummm". Slickwilly

PhillieG

slickwilly said:

Visions
My grandmother was not a woman of any faith. In fact she was proubly only in churches for weddings and funerals. She was more of a believer in a stiff afternoon drink ha ha. She was about to pass away and my mother was sitting beside her. My grandmother asked who the man was standing at the end of her bed. There was no one there so my mother asked for a description. Here is what she said. Its a man with a long bread and he is wearing white robes. He is reaching his arms out towards me like he wants me to go with him. She passed on that evening. I put that under "things that make you go Hummm". Slickwilly

Hmmmm
Indeed! Cool story, one never knows...do one?
Thanks for posting

Buzzard

PhillieG said:

Hmmmm
Indeed! Cool story, one never knows...do one?
Thanks for posting

I come in peace..............
LOL........My thoughts are these.....If I believe in God and He is real then I have everything to gain and nothing to lose so it is a win/win. If I don't believe and He is real then what ? I'm not willing or wanting to take that chance. So my thoughts about what happens afterwards are exactly what I expressed, I really think there is a Heaven and Hell. It allows people to be a lot less scared of dying so its good for anyone that believes in it. It doesn't have to be crammed down anyones throat, and hopefully it won't be, but just the same it does help to create a nicer human race as to how we treat each other. My thoughts are mine and mine only, it just seems to bring a calming effect to those who really believe, I am one of those...I do though do not like the visitation part of the churches ministries because of the fact that I think it turns more off than on about religion. If they want to go they know where a church is. Now, if they ask for visitation then fine. Sorry off the subject.....
I think that we do leave our earthly soul to be in Heaven forever. I also do not believe in luck or coincidence either.......Love and Hope, Buzz

soccerfreaks

Buzzard said:

I come in peace..............
LOL........My thoughts are these.....If I believe in God and He is real then I have everything to gain and nothing to lose so it is a win/win. If I don't believe and He is real then what ? I'm not willing or wanting to take that chance. So my thoughts about what happens afterwards are exactly what I expressed, I really think there is a Heaven and Hell. It allows people to be a lot less scared of dying so its good for anyone that believes in it. It doesn't have to be crammed down anyones throat, and hopefully it won't be, but just the same it does help to create a nicer human race as to how we treat each other. My thoughts are mine and mine only, it just seems to bring a calming effect to those who really believe, I am one of those...I do though do not like the visitation part of the churches ministries because of the fact that I think it turns more off than on about religion. If they want to go they know where a church is. Now, if they ask for visitation then fine. Sorry off the subject.....
I think that we do leave our earthly soul to be in Heaven forever. I also do not believe in luck or coincidence either.......Love and Hope, Buzz

Pascal's Gambit
Buzz,

Your notion about what is essentially hedging your bets is not original as you may know; Pascal's Wager, named for the philosopher Blaise Pascal, says the same thing.

It is hard to argue with the practicality of the notion, but practicality and belief are two different things. I would argue, in fact, that reducing god's existence to practicality refutes the possibility that one is a true believer.

Belief is not knowledge but it may in fact be stronger than knowledge given our foibles, and certainly more CERTAIN than a carefully constructed but flawed edifice of chance.

Your recommendations with respect to belief are good ones, buss, for sure. I envy those who can truly believe for whatever reason (faith, I think it is usually called), but I can talk myself into it. Raised in the Halls of Reason, I require more than I have been presented to date.

As for your comments about it being 'crammed down people's throats', christianity has from its inception encouraged proselytizing, so there is little wonder that this continues today, although the shrewdest sects seem to tone it down or amp it up dependent on which culture they cultivating at the moment.

One guy's view.

Take care,

Joe

Laura88

soccerfreaks said:

Pascal's Gambit
Buzz,

Your notion about what is essentially hedging your bets is not original as you may know; Pascal's Wager, named for the philosopher Blaise Pascal, says the same thing.

It is hard to argue with the practicality of the notion, but practicality and belief are two different things. I would argue, in fact, that reducing god's existence to practicality refutes the possibility that one is a true believer.

Belief is not knowledge but it may in fact be stronger than knowledge given our foibles, and certainly more CERTAIN than a carefully constructed but flawed edifice of chance.

Your recommendations with respect to belief are good ones, buss, for sure. I envy those who can truly believe for whatever reason (faith, I think it is usually called), but I can talk myself into it. Raised in the Halls of Reason, I require more than I have been presented to date.

As for your comments about it being 'crammed down people's throats', christianity has from its inception encouraged proselytizing, so there is little wonder that this continues today, although the shrewdest sects seem to tone it down or amp it up dependent on which culture they cultivating at the moment.

One guy's view.

Take care,

Joe

My Confusion
Hello -- great posts. I usually post only in lung cancer but I see my friend Joe here so -- I will add my two cents. I have no idea what happens. I will say this. I have been raised a catholic and have had many, many issues over the years. So many that I left the church. I felt a strong "God" or higher power presence always, but felt I did not need the church to worship correctly. Since my diagnosis I have gone back to church. Do I feel like that helps "God" be with me? Not really. I don't know why I go -- I just do. I am trying very, very hard to believe in something - at this point I really, really need to - but I feel I make no progress at all. I always thought the higher power simply wanted you to live without intentionally hurting others, helping others when you can, etc. I feel like I had definitely done that. I never hurt anyone and always tried to help as best I could. I raised two children alone and worked too much to enjoy them. Now I have grandbabies I can enjoy and I probably won't live long enough to do so. I always said you live a good life, you be as good as you can be, you get what you deserve in the end. I now wonder what I did to get this at just 53 years old. Then I get mad at myself for the self pity -- and it goes on and on. I hope there is an afterlife -- and I hope I'm not too mad when I get there!! I always say the Big Guy has a lot of explaining to me!!

I read such wonderful, hopeful, thankful posts here. You people amaze me. Do you really never get angry? Do you really never question why? Please -- how do you keep your faith through this awful disease and treatment? Some days are okay -- but as I layed there this morning getting my brain and pelvic radiation just two months after intense chest radiation -- I have to wonder what the heck I did that was so bad?

I hope this is not the absolute wrong place to post this. I hope I dont upset people -- it is more a question of how you all continue to believe - how you hold on to your faith. I admire you all a great deal.

Marcia527

Laura88 said:

My Confusion
Hello -- great posts. I usually post only in lung cancer but I see my friend Joe here so -- I will add my two cents. I have no idea what happens. I will say this. I have been raised a catholic and have had many, many issues over the years. So many that I left the church. I felt a strong "God" or higher power presence always, but felt I did not need the church to worship correctly. Since my diagnosis I have gone back to church. Do I feel like that helps "God" be with me? Not really. I don't know why I go -- I just do. I am trying very, very hard to believe in something - at this point I really, really need to - but I feel I make no progress at all. I always thought the higher power simply wanted you to live without intentionally hurting others, helping others when you can, etc. I feel like I had definitely done that. I never hurt anyone and always tried to help as best I could. I raised two children alone and worked too much to enjoy them. Now I have grandbabies I can enjoy and I probably won't live long enough to do so. I always said you live a good life, you be as good as you can be, you get what you deserve in the end. I now wonder what I did to get this at just 53 years old. Then I get mad at myself for the self pity -- and it goes on and on. I hope there is an afterlife -- and I hope I'm not too mad when I get there!! I always say the Big Guy has a lot of explaining to me!!

I read such wonderful, hopeful, thankful posts here. You people amaze me. Do you really never get angry? Do you really never question why? Please -- how do you keep your faith through this awful disease and treatment? Some days are okay -- but as I layed there this morning getting my brain and pelvic radiation just two months after intense chest radiation -- I have to wonder what the heck I did that was so bad?

I hope this is not the absolute wrong place to post this. I hope I dont upset people -- it is more a question of how you all continue to believe - how you hold on to your faith. I admire you all a great deal.

faith
I don't believe that having cancer was a punishment. It's a matter of genes and environment.

As for faith, I have wavered at times. But I had an experience which proved to me that God is real. Unfortunately I can't prove it to you. I guess we each have to find our own proof. Some people just have to rely on faith.

This is just my opinion.

PhillieG

Buzzard said:

I come in peace..............
LOL........My thoughts are these.....If I believe in God and He is real then I have everything to gain and nothing to lose so it is a win/win. If I don't believe and He is real then what ? I'm not willing or wanting to take that chance. So my thoughts about what happens afterwards are exactly what I expressed, I really think there is a Heaven and Hell. It allows people to be a lot less scared of dying so its good for anyone that believes in it. It doesn't have to be crammed down anyones throat, and hopefully it won't be, but just the same it does help to create a nicer human race as to how we treat each other. My thoughts are mine and mine only, it just seems to bring a calming effect to those who really believe, I am one of those...I do though do not like the visitation part of the churches ministries because of the fact that I think it turns more off than on about religion. If they want to go they know where a church is. Now, if they ask for visitation then fine. Sorry off the subject.....
I think that we do leave our earthly soul to be in Heaven forever. I also do not believe in luck or coincidence either.......Love and Hope, Buzz

BUZZ!!!!
Welcome my friend. It's nice to see you visited and posted over here. This is where we all can post what we believe in or whatever the topic is without the sometimes "backlash" one can get in other areas. You may get discussion or questions about what you believe but I've yet to see any discussion blow up at all.

It sounds like it's an insurance policy in a way. I certainly see no harm in believing things the way you do. It kind of seems to me that this is one thing I've believed for a long time. That man created religion (maybe even God too) so it would answer and sooth themselves for when they die. It's comforting to know that you will go to heaven and things will be just right. I know you pretty well from this site so I know you won't take this the wrong way. Now look at some of the muslim extremists. They feel that by being a martyr that they will go into heaven and be greeted by the whole she-bang of virgins. I know this comparison between the muslims and christians is a very far cry from how you live but both seem to be based on doing things in life that are rewarded after death.

I know that those who have the gift of faith find much comfort in church. I was raised catholic but do not go. When I do go to a service it's presbyterian. I like much of what they say and they tend to be a little more flexible and understanding I've found.

Overall though, I have found that the older I have gotten the less I believe in "all that" and instead find myself looking at things in terms of science and us being energy. I certainly do not think that once we die that it's like someone turning off the light switch and everyone going home. It is said that energy can neither be created nor destroyed so being energy I think we move on somewhere and somehow but I do not believe in heaven and hell. However, I do like to believe in karma but then I sometimes go "well, what the F did I do to get cancer???" and then I don't believe it so much. I think I want to believe it so those SOB's who live horrible lives will somehow be punished. I guess it's like wanted them to go to hell. This is all complicated stuff. That's what makes it cool in many ways. No one REALLY knows the answer. We don't have "The Truth" so anything goes. I do not know if we will be judged in the end. I do believe that we should live by what's called the Golden Rule and to do unto others. I like to try to put myself in others shoes, it really makes a difference in how we treat others if it's taken seriously.

I'm not sure about the luck and coincidence stuff. I know that I've willed things to happen. Nothing major or I'd be driving a better car. Also, ever since I got cancer I have had so many strange things happen like knowing the phone is going to ring or calling my wife at the same time she is calling me when we do not have set times to call. Stuff like that and also other things but nothing of groundbreaking importance. It's just that I'm aware of this stuff more. I like it, it's cool.

Clift, it's really good to see you over here. Please visit/comment more. Start a discussion if the "spirit moves you".
Peace
-phil

PhillieG

Laura88 said:

My Confusion
Hello -- great posts. I usually post only in lung cancer but I see my friend Joe here so -- I will add my two cents. I have no idea what happens. I will say this. I have been raised a catholic and have had many, many issues over the years. So many that I left the church. I felt a strong "God" or higher power presence always, but felt I did not need the church to worship correctly. Since my diagnosis I have gone back to church. Do I feel like that helps "God" be with me? Not really. I don't know why I go -- I just do. I am trying very, very hard to believe in something - at this point I really, really need to - but I feel I make no progress at all. I always thought the higher power simply wanted you to live without intentionally hurting others, helping others when you can, etc. I feel like I had definitely done that. I never hurt anyone and always tried to help as best I could. I raised two children alone and worked too much to enjoy them. Now I have grandbabies I can enjoy and I probably won't live long enough to do so. I always said you live a good life, you be as good as you can be, you get what you deserve in the end. I now wonder what I did to get this at just 53 years old. Then I get mad at myself for the self pity -- and it goes on and on. I hope there is an afterlife -- and I hope I'm not too mad when I get there!! I always say the Big Guy has a lot of explaining to me!!

I read such wonderful, hopeful, thankful posts here. You people amaze me. Do you really never get angry? Do you really never question why? Please -- how do you keep your faith through this awful disease and treatment? Some days are okay -- but as I layed there this morning getting my brain and pelvic radiation just two months after intense chest radiation -- I have to wonder what the heck I did that was so bad?

I hope this is not the absolute wrong place to post this. I hope I dont upset people -- it is more a question of how you all continue to believe - how you hold on to your faith. I admire you all a great deal.

The absolutly RIGHT place to post this
Hi Laura, This is just the right place to post this. It's open to one and all, it's certainly not cancer specific or even cancer related.

I too am a "recovering catholic" so I hear you with their teachings and the other shenanigans they pull.
I certainly do not think you are being punished at all. Maybe you have cancer so you can help others through how you've handled it? I've thought that about my situation at times. I never really played the "why me" game because "why NOT me" works just as well. But I know what you mean, you live your life well and do right by people and get this, while there are others who are just rotten to the core and they are healthy. I think there is much more to life than that.

Thank you for posting and please post/visit more. It's open to one and all and especially to any friend of Joe's.
;-)
-p

MRE13

PhillieG said:

BUZZ!!!!
Welcome my friend. It's nice to see you visited and posted over here. This is where we all can post what we believe in or whatever the topic is without the sometimes "backlash" one can get in other areas. You may get discussion or questions about what you believe but I've yet to see any discussion blow up at all.

It sounds like it's an insurance policy in a way. I certainly see no harm in believing things the way you do. It kind of seems to me that this is one thing I've believed for a long time. That man created religion (maybe even God too) so it would answer and sooth themselves for when they die. It's comforting to know that you will go to heaven and things will be just right. I know you pretty well from this site so I know you won't take this the wrong way. Now look at some of the muslim extremists. They feel that by being a martyr that they will go into heaven and be greeted by the whole she-bang of virgins. I know this comparison between the muslims and christians is a very far cry from how you live but both seem to be based on doing things in life that are rewarded after death.

I know that those who have the gift of faith find much comfort in church. I was raised catholic but do not go. When I do go to a service it's presbyterian. I like much of what they say and they tend to be a little more flexible and understanding I've found.

Overall though, I have found that the older I have gotten the less I believe in "all that" and instead find myself looking at things in terms of science and us being energy. I certainly do not think that once we die that it's like someone turning off the light switch and everyone going home. It is said that energy can neither be created nor destroyed so being energy I think we move on somewhere and somehow but I do not believe in heaven and hell. However, I do like to believe in karma but then I sometimes go "well, what the F did I do to get cancer???" and then I don't believe it so much. I think I want to believe it so those SOB's who live horrible lives will somehow be punished. I guess it's like wanted them to go to hell. This is all complicated stuff. That's what makes it cool in many ways. No one REALLY knows the answer. We don't have "The Truth" so anything goes. I do not know if we will be judged in the end. I do believe that we should live by what's called the Golden Rule and to do unto others. I like to try to put myself in others shoes, it really makes a difference in how we treat others if it's taken seriously.

I'm not sure about the luck and coincidence stuff. I know that I've willed things to happen. Nothing major or I'd be driving a better car. Also, ever since I got cancer I have had so many strange things happen like knowing the phone is going to ring or calling my wife at the same time she is calling me when we do not have set times to call. Stuff like that and also other things but nothing of groundbreaking importance. It's just that I'm aware of this stuff more. I like it, it's cool.

Clift, it's really good to see you over here. Please visit/comment more. Start a discussion if the "spirit moves you".
Peace
-phil

Is there something else apart from the life we know?
This is a sensitive subject open to all sorts of opinions and speculations.
One way to attempt to gain some clarity is to try to interpret odd situations that happen just before or right after the death.

My mother was dying, she was deep in comma and me and other members of the family were around her in the hospital room or nearby in the waiting room. We knew that it would not take too long, a matter of hours, so some of us took short breaks to go to the cafeteria preparing ourselves to pass the night by her bedside while some others would go home to sleep. My mother adored my cousin, who had been by her all the day. When the evening came he had to go home to rest but he went first to have diner in the cafeteria with other members of the family. Half an hour later he was about to leave the hospital but for no good reason he changed his mind and came back to my mother's room. Within few minutes my mother expired. Just by chance or perhaps not by chance she had by her deathbed the very people she truly loved, the others were at that moment in the cafeteria or at home and missed her peaceful end.

PhillieG

MRE13 said:

Is there something else apart from the life we know?
This is a sensitive subject open to all sorts of opinions and speculations.
One way to attempt to gain some clarity is to try to interpret odd situations that happen just before or right after the death.

My mother was dying, she was deep in comma and me and other members of the family were around her in the hospital room or nearby in the waiting room. We knew that it would not take too long, a matter of hours, so some of us took short breaks to go to the cafeteria preparing ourselves to pass the night by her bedside while some others would go home to sleep. My mother adored my cousin, who had been by her all the day. When the evening came he had to go home to rest but he went first to have diner in the cafeteria with other members of the family. Half an hour later he was about to leave the hospital but for no good reason he changed his mind and came back to my mother's room. Within few minutes my mother expired. Just by chance or perhaps not by chance she had by her deathbed the very people she truly loved, the others were at that moment in the cafeteria or at home and missed her peaceful end.

True, that's why it's over here
in this thread and not on the Main pages.

Thank you for sharing your touching story about your Mom. I have a similar one with my Dad. He had been in and out of consciousness for a few days prior to his passing. The night he died we all were around him but he was not responsive at all. I just started to massage his "third eye" in the middle of his forehead. After a few minutes he woke up and gained consciousness, we all got to talk with him even though he couldn't speak he knew what was going on.
Later that night he passed away.
-phil

visit more and share more too if you feel inclined to

Buzzard

PhillieG said:

True, that's why it's over here
in this thread and not on the Main pages.

Thank you for sharing your touching story about your Mom. I have a similar one with my Dad. He had been in and out of consciousness for a few days prior to his passing. The night he died we all were around him but he was not responsive at all. I just started to massage his "third eye" in the middle of his forehead. After a few minutes he woke up and gained consciousness, we all got to talk with him even though he couldn't speak he knew what was going on.
Later that night he passed away.
-phil

visit more and share more too if you feel inclined to

some more of my beliefs...as I see them
I am of presbyterian faith just for everyones knowledge. But some of my thinking may not go along with any one belief. I do believe though that whether good or bad you will stand before God before you are allowed in Heaven or not, and it gives me peace of mind to know that even with murderers , pedophiles, etc that they may be healthy and live to be 120 years old but someday they will stand before God, there will be what they call "Hell to Pay" then for them. That is how I get through that subject.
As far as going to church, I believe that church offers you a place to worship with others of your faith and to allow you to grow in that faith by learning from others. It is fine to stay at home and still believe, but you are limited in growing your faith, but in my opinion the church is where believers worship together, a place for believers to gather...and to advance their knowledge of the teachings
I also believe that doing good works for the Lord is fine, but until you openly take Him as your Lord and Savior then it doesn't matter how many good deeds you have done, you will still not be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven...and I do want for all to know this is my opinion of they way I believe, and it all makes sense to me.
He gives me free will, which the way I see this is that He didn't give me anything, and Im not sure if He needs to cure anything, you see to me He says that He will destroy Satan, and I believe that this disease I have is doings from Satan so that he can make Gods children suffer, so for Him to cure all of us He would certainly have to destroy Satan, and He says He will, but at the cost of the end of the earth as we know it.

Remember, its my opinion and simply the way I perceive it.........Buzz

PhillieG

Buzzard said:

some more of my beliefs...as I see them
I am of presbyterian faith just for everyones knowledge. But some of my thinking may not go along with any one belief. I do believe though that whether good or bad you will stand before God before you are allowed in Heaven or not, and it gives me peace of mind to know that even with murderers , pedophiles, etc that they may be healthy and live to be 120 years old but someday they will stand before God, there will be what they call "Hell to Pay" then for them. That is how I get through that subject.
As far as going to church, I believe that church offers you a place to worship with others of your faith and to allow you to grow in that faith by learning from others. It is fine to stay at home and still believe, but you are limited in growing your faith, but in my opinion the church is where believers worship together, a place for believers to gather...and to advance their knowledge of the teachings
I also believe that doing good works for the Lord is fine, but until you openly take Him as your Lord and Savior then it doesn't matter how many good deeds you have done, you will still not be admitted into the Kingdom of Heaven...and I do want for all to know this is my opinion of they way I believe, and it all makes sense to me.
He gives me free will, which the way I see this is that He didn't give me anything, and Im not sure if He needs to cure anything, you see to me He says that He will destroy Satan, and I believe that this disease I have is doings from Satan so that he can make Gods children suffer, so for Him to cure all of us He would certainly have to destroy Satan, and He says He will, but at the cost of the end of the earth as we know it.

Remember, its my opinion and simply the way I perceive it.........Buzz

It probably follows their teachings...
Your views that is Buzz. I go to the presbyterian church when I go to church. For one my wife plays violin for many holiday services and I also find them "less preachy" than the catholics where I was raised. I think there are many very beneficial things that people can gain from going to a church and belonging to the community. I just never believed in heaven and hell. Even from an early age I thought that there are so many different religions and everyone believes they are right. Something seemed wrong with all of that to me. Everyone can't be right. As I grew older I looked at how many people have been murdered in the name of "God" and that didn't seem right to me either. I think it misses the point of his message if you believe in the bible which is another thing I don't believe in. I mean, I know it was written but I see the stories only as metaphors, not as fact.

I think it's more important to live life in the "now" and do what is right because it's the right thing to do, not because at some point I will be judged by someone for it. At least not by the God that is often mentioned. As far as good and evil, I like to believe that those who lived their lives in a "bad" way will have some sort of cosmic debt to pay but what that is I have no idea. Maybe there is heaven and hell, maybe there isn't. It doesn't affect how I treat others at all.

The cool thing with all of this is that no one knows the answers to the questions. Maybe there is a God and at some point I will stand before her :-) and have to explain a bunch of stuff. Maybe I'll stand before someone else and have even more to explain!

Thanks for sharing Clift
-p

Trew

PhillieG said:

It probably follows their teachings...
Your views that is Buzz. I go to the presbyterian church when I go to church. For one my wife plays violin for many holiday services and I also find them "less preachy" than the catholics where I was raised. I think there are many very beneficial things that people can gain from going to a church and belonging to the community. I just never believed in heaven and hell. Even from an early age I thought that there are so many different religions and everyone believes they are right. Something seemed wrong with all of that to me. Everyone can't be right. As I grew older I looked at how many people have been murdered in the name of "God" and that didn't seem right to me either. I think it misses the point of his message if you believe in the bible which is another thing I don't believe in. I mean, I know it was written but I see the stories only as metaphors, not as fact.

I think it's more important to live life in the "now" and do what is right because it's the right thing to do, not because at some point I will be judged by someone for it. At least not by the God that is often mentioned. As far as good and evil, I like to believe that those who lived their lives in a "bad" way will have some sort of cosmic debt to pay but what that is I have no idea. Maybe there is heaven and hell, maybe there isn't. It doesn't affect how I treat others at all.

The cool thing with all of this is that no one knows the answers to the questions. Maybe there is a God and at some point I will stand before her :-) and have to explain a bunch of stuff. Maybe I'll stand before someone else and have even more to explain!

Thanks for sharing Clift
-p

Personal Beliefs
My view is that death is a sleep until Jesus comes and wakes us up on that great gettin' up morning.

Amazing how cancer can direct the thoughts to this topic. I remember coming back to the doctor's 7 days after prostate surgery. He informed me I had positive margins and that unless I had radiation I would die. I hardly remember hearing the words but my wife picked up on them. When we were going home afterwards I asked my wife what the doc has said, sort of like a dream, you know what I mean. During radiation the doctor told me my outlook was so/so, 50/50. Still a big step up from "will die." Anyway, life does look different on this side of cancer. Sort of like a mountain top experience with an extended view.

PhillieG

Trew said:

Personal Beliefs
My view is that death is a sleep until Jesus comes and wakes us up on that great gettin' up morning.

Amazing how cancer can direct the thoughts to this topic. I remember coming back to the doctor's 7 days after prostate surgery. He informed me I had positive margins and that unless I had radiation I would die. I hardly remember hearing the words but my wife picked up on them. When we were going home afterwards I asked my wife what the doc has said, sort of like a dream, you know what I mean. During radiation the doctor told me my outlook was so/so, 50/50. Still a big step up from "will die." Anyway, life does look different on this side of cancer. Sort of like a mountain top experience with an extended view.

I think it's great
how cancer can direct our thoughts this way. Most people walk around clueless thinking they will live forever. Cancer or not we are all going to die. I was shaken up and started to smell more roses. I would smell them to some extent before but this has been a positive experience for the most part for me even though it sucks part of the time.