Here is what could be an interesting topic. What do you believe happens to "us" after we die?

DennisR

2bhealed said:

spirit world
The day my sister died (she was 33 and i was 30) I definitely felt her spirit presence around me. It was very cool and very strong. After she died I also felt that she visited me in my dream world very strongly. I believe she brought me messages. I have a kinda cool story about that but for another time.

I know for a fact that we have angels since one of them woke my husband up when he fell asleep driving back from CO. The rest of us (4 kids and I) were all asleep and someone YELLED his name loudly and woke him up as he was leaving the road.

Just one example.

The rocks will cry out. God IS all around us and I find him the most in my favorite place next to our creek in our woods where my in-laws and pets are buried. Peace and tranquility.

Hey Phil! Where you been?

peace, emily

Hi Emily,
I have also had
Hi Emily,
I have also had numerous "visitations" from some of those who have passed on, No, I've never heard voices or seen appiritions, but clear messages have been sent in my dreams, some of which made me incredibly sad like in premonitions of impending deaths, others that relieved my worries about what happened to to loved ones when they passed on and put my mind at ease.
I used to be concerned that this phenomena was happening to me, but now I just accept it and consider it some sort of dubious blessing.
I have spent some time researching this subject and found that many of the greatest Theologians, Psychologists, Philosophers, and Scientists have also experienced this or similar episodes in their own lives and they were unable to explain it either, but generally leaned towards the existance of Higher Powers and Souls. Works for me!
DennisR

DennisR

2bhealed said:

spirit world
The day my sister died (she was 33 and i was 30) I definitely felt her spirit presence around me. It was very cool and very strong. After she died I also felt that she visited me in my dream world very strongly. I believe she brought me messages. I have a kinda cool story about that but for another time.

I know for a fact that we have angels since one of them woke my husband up when he fell asleep driving back from CO. The rest of us (4 kids and I) were all asleep and someone YELLED his name loudly and woke him up as he was leaving the road.

Just one example.

The rocks will cry out. God IS all around us and I find him the most in my favorite place next to our creek in our woods where my in-laws and pets are buried. Peace and tranquility.

Hey Phil! Where you been?

peace, emily

Hi Emily,
I have also had
Hi Emily,
I have also had numerous "visitations" from some of those who have passed on, No, I've never heard voices or seen appiritions, but clear messages have been sent in my dreams, some of which made me incredibly sad like in premonitions of impending deaths, others that relieved my worries about what happened to to loved ones when they passed on and put my mind at ease.
I used to be concerned that this phenomena was happening to me, but now I just accept it and consider it some sort of dubious blessing.
I have spent some time researching this subject and found that many of the greatest Theologians, Psychologists, Philosophers, and Scientists have also experienced this or similar episodes in their own lives and they were unable to explain it either, but generally leaned towards the existance of Higher Powers and Souls. Works for me!
DennisR

DennisR

PhillieG said:

Good vs Evil
As one who does not believe in God I believe that we all possess both qualities in us. Good and Evil. We all have the ability to choose either. I do not believe that God or Satan is pulling our stings so to speak to have us act a certain way. Everyone is capable of being either nice or not nice. There is no second party involved and our destinies are not mapped out.

I also believe that there are forces of energy which possibly as those who have passed on that can become present to us in this state of being.

Reading your post Lisa just reminds me so much of the constant struggle of Good vs Evil that is found in all religions for all of mankind. It's even in our modern myths like Harry Potter or Star Wars and the older metaphors found in the bible.


Here are a few quotes by Joseph Campbell who wrote a lot about myths and religion and their importance to mankind throughout the years. A very interesting man.

"Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble."

"God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that."

"Life is without meaning. You bring the meaning to it. The meaning of life is whatever you ascribe it to be. Being alive is the meaning."
Joseph Campbell

Hey Phil,Hey Phil, I
Hey Phil,
Hey Phil, I believe it was Carl Jung who once wrote, "The World's First Religion was started when the World's First Con Artist met the World's first Fool".
I'm only mentioning this quote because I found it humorous, Carl was actually a believer, certainly not an Agnostic or an Atheist.
DennisR

DennisR

soccerfreaks said:

would you date a married agnostic dude?
Lisa,

I have great respect for your beliefs. I do. And I appreciate that your belief is of sufficient strength and conviction that you are willing to stand up, as it were, in this 'room' and say, as Jesus purportedly did among the marketeers in the temple, "Hey, there is something wrong with this picture!"

But, I would offer that belief and tolerance do not have to be mutually exclusive. I think you have expressed as much yourself, in previous posts.

Leaving that aside, getting to the nut of the issue, to suggest that Islam is different than Christianity because Islam, or certain sects within, promote jihad while Christianity does not, is a gross misunderstanding about the history of the world.

I would venture to say that it is not cancer, it is not heart disease, it is not some exotic flu, it is not a plague, it is not even Islam, Hindusim or Bhuddism, that has killed the most people in the last 2000+ years but Christianity.

Look it up.

As for your obviously strident and strong beliefs, Lisa, I admire, even envy them, I do. I wish that I knew with certainty where I will go when this life ends. Regrettably, for me, I am not there, and am not certain I will ever get there. I tend to be a person of logic and rationality. And even the people of the cloth that I have talked to agree that belief requires a leap of faith.

True faith requires a leap beyond what is rational. That is not to say that it is wrong, but simply that it cannot simply be preached, not at least to anyone of any degree of intelligence. It requires a leap beyond what we can know rationally. It requires an irrational belief in the existence of a supreme existence.

I am not disparaging you, Lisa, before you begin to pound away on your keyboard. Some of the greatest thinkers of all time, including some of the greatest thinkers of current and recent times are (or were), if not Christians, at least deists.

So, it is with admitted hubris that I maintain my status as an agnostic, an unknower, as I like to put it. I simply do not know.

Regarding what Jesus did or did not do, it could be argued that the books of the second bible, if you will, (as well as those of the first, now that I think about it) were put together by minstrels of a sort.

But I will let that lay where it is, brought up only to point out that your belief, while ardent and true, is not based on facts, but the words of human beings from a time of great superstition. Your beliefs are irrational.

I admire your honesty and conviction.

Take care,

Joe

Hey Joe,
Your statement that
Hey Joe,

Your statement that Christianity has killed more people than any other cause or religion is incorrect and little more than just Atheistic Dogma itself. There is no proof whatsoever that your statement is a true fact and it's actually just something Atheists/Agnostics like to say when they're attempting to make their illogical argument against Christianity.
Look it up.
If Christians are indeed such Fearful, murderous people as you like to believe, I'm surprised Atheists have the courage to attack them so readily, instead of showing the respect (fear) that their complete absense of any comment that may upset a Muslim, for instance, would appear to show at face value. Of Course, Muslims DO have a nasty habit of cutting off people's heads when someone criticizes their Religion. I guess they've never even heard of a Misdemeanor, and I suspect that may have something do do with the deafening silence from the non- believers.

Chairman Mao was most likely an Atheist, (I doubt any Religion would claim him,) and he killed some 50 million people in the few years he was in power, I suspect that's more people than even existed during biblical times.

DennisR

soccerfreaks

DennisR said:

Hey Joe,
Your statement that
Hey Joe,

Your statement that Christianity has killed more people than any other cause or religion is incorrect and little more than just Atheistic Dogma itself. There is no proof whatsoever that your statement is a true fact and it's actually just something Atheists/Agnostics like to say when they're attempting to make their illogical argument against Christianity.
Look it up.
If Christians are indeed such Fearful, murderous people as you like to believe, I'm surprised Atheists have the courage to attack them so readily, instead of showing the respect (fear) that their complete absense of any comment that may upset a Muslim, for instance, would appear to show at face value. Of Course, Muslims DO have a nasty habit of cutting off people's heads when someone criticizes their Religion. I guess they've never even heard of a Misdemeanor, and I suspect that may have something do do with the deafening silence from the non- believers.

Chairman Mao was most likely an Atheist, (I doubt any Religion would claim him,) and he killed some 50 million people in the few years he was in power, I suspect that's more people than even existed during biblical times.

DennisR

Can't wait
Dennis, thank you for your observations.

Please be advised that it is illogical to lump athiests and agnostics in the same clay. Athiests are believers, after all, believers in the non-existence of a greater power, while agnostics, by the definition I am familiar with, are non-believers, unknowers. I am on record, as an agnostic, in expressing envy of those who do believe and in acknowledging that those folks, the believers, have at least the slender blade of irrationality, the leap of faith, to support their belief, while athiests have nothing of the sort.

I have never, to my knowledge, attempted to make an 'illogical argument against Christianity."

Look it up.

Your notion that respect and fear are one and the same troubles me. I hope that if you own dogs, that if you have children, this is not your credo with respect to them.

Beyond that, my statement that Christianity is the biggest killer of people in history is supported by history if not by your personal preacher. 'Biblical times', for the most part, precedes Christianity, whether you are aware of that or not. In the time since the advent of Christianity, much has been done in its name to torture and to kill. Just for starters, look up the Crusades, look up the Spanish Inquisition. (It seems that Christians have also had an urge, from time to time, to cut off people's heads, among other wonderful efforts to convert the unconverted.)

All of that said, I appreciate your viewpoint, and am most interested in your comment, here and elsewhere, that you have read "many of the greatest Theologians, Psychologists, Philosophers, and Scientists". Can you please list them along with some of their works. I need to catch up on my reading in that regard and would really enjoy surveying your particular choices.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

soccerfreaks

DennisR said:

Hey Phil,Hey Phil, I
Hey Phil,
Hey Phil, I believe it was Carl Jung who once wrote, "The World's First Religion was started when the World's First Con Artist met the World's first Fool".
I'm only mentioning this quote because I found it humorous, Carl was actually a believer, certainly not an Agnostic or an Atheist.
DennisR

Forever Jung
Interesting that you mention Jung, Dennis, as Campbell might be considered a disciple of his, after a fashion, as both believed in archetypes and trans-cultural paradigms.

However, to say that Jung was a 'believer' seems to insinuate that he was a Christian, when, in fact, he was, like Campbell, respectful of the myriad religions and belief systems in our world at that time (which included hinduism, islam, and buddhism, among others).

He was, in fact, a theist/deist/pantheist, and insisted in his studies that much of what impacts us psychologically is older than organized religions which, themselves, are structured on those older totems.

Just saying.

Take care,

Joe

DennisR

soccerfreaks said:

Can't wait
Dennis, thank you for your observations.

Please be advised that it is illogical to lump athiests and agnostics in the same clay. Athiests are believers, after all, believers in the non-existence of a greater power, while agnostics, by the definition I am familiar with, are non-believers, unknowers. I am on record, as an agnostic, in expressing envy of those who do believe and in acknowledging that those folks, the believers, have at least the slender blade of irrationality, the leap of faith, to support their belief, while athiests have nothing of the sort.

I have never, to my knowledge, attempted to make an 'illogical argument against Christianity."

Look it up.

Your notion that respect and fear are one and the same troubles me. I hope that if you own dogs, that if you have children, this is not your credo with respect to them.

Beyond that, my statement that Christianity is the biggest killer of people in history is supported by history if not by your personal preacher. 'Biblical times', for the most part, precedes Christianity, whether you are aware of that or not. In the time since the advent of Christianity, much has been done in its name to torture and to kill. Just for starters, look up the Crusades, look up the Spanish Inquisition. (It seems that Christians have also had an urge, from time to time, to cut off people's heads, among other wonderful efforts to convert the unconverted.)

All of that said, I appreciate your viewpoint, and am most interested in your comment, here and elsewhere, that you have read "many of the greatest Theologians, Psychologists, Philosophers, and Scientists". Can you please list them along with some of their works. I need to catch up on my reading in that regard and would really enjoy surveying your particular choices.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Hey Joe,
How's it going? I
Hey Joe,
How's it going? I only lump the two together when they use the same Dogma to make a point.
No offense meant. I'm sure there were many atrocities committed during the periods you mention, but there is little or no Empirical evidence to support the claim that MORE deaths have been caused by Christianity than any other Religion or belief.
Look up the period before the Crusades when the tables were turned.
Besides, as I like to say, We don't do that anymore...while others do.
As far as Respect and Fear are concerned, the point was to illustrate that people, especially MSM, are hiding behind respect for people's beliefs when it comes to the Muslim Religion, when in fact they are afraid to be critical. Note the recent recantations of cartoons, books, and news items etc that are either, not being printed, or are not being circulated. I suspect it's because of fear, not respect, and they hardly mean the same thing.
I learned from my dog trainer that, "If you treat your dog like a person, it will treat you like a Dog".
My studies of Philosophy and Psychologists are a work in progress, I average reading 2 or three books a week, not all related to the subject. However, if you have an Author in mind whose views you share, perhaps you'd be willing to share that info and I'll be sure to attempt it. Even this Old Dog can learn new tricks.
Besides, Joe, it's all just banter (between you and I) and I suspect we both tend to gravitate towards the teachings or writings of those that tend to validate what we already believe in anyway because of the way we were raised.
I do appreciate your point of view however, and I've learned a few new things just from this short discussion, also my Sister in Law was a PHD of Psychology and we had many spirited discussions along these lines, she was also a dedicated Liberal thinker, while I'm just the opposite. The one thing I noticed was that she found grey areas in everything I believed in, but none in her own beliefs. Well she had a PHD, after all.
DennisR

sure_hope

amber65 said:

death
i think that cancer patients are special, we have a chance to say goodbyes, we can try to cahnge things. i am doing amy love is with us all. tv and radio shows on my journey, and it is not over, i have a rare form of sinus cancer. my faith has started to return ans even though i am scared at what will happen next, the one thing i do know is whatever happens in death, we all go to the same place.

Why not go to the source of life for the answer?
WHEN you hear the terms “soul” and “spirit,” what comes to your mind? Many believe that these words mean something invisible and immortal that exists inside us. They think that at death this invisible part of a human leaves the body and lives on. Since this belief is so widespread, many are surprised to learn that it is not at all what the Bible teaches.

What, then, is the soul, and what is the spirit, according to God’s Word?

First, consider the soul. You may remember that the Bible was originally written mainly in Hebrew and Greek. When writing about the soul, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ne′phesh or the Greek word psy·khe′. These two words occur well over 800 times in the Scriptures, and the New World Translation consistently renders them “soul.”


Soul

Definition: In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew ne′phesh and the Greek psy·khe′. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.

What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is?

Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne′phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)

1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)

1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khai′, the plural form of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)

Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from ne′phesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.)

Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)

Is the soul the same as the spirit?

Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ru′ach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ru′ach; but the word translated soul is ne′phesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ru′ach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ru′ach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ru′ach, or spirit.)

Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psy·khes′; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneu′ma·tos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”)

Can the human soul die?

Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the ne′phesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)

Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)

Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·khe′] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”

Spirit

Bible writers used the Hebrew word ru′ach or the Greek word pneu′ma when writing about the “spirit.”

Definition: The Hebrew word ru′ach and the Greek pneu′ma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to the active life-force in earthly creatures.

Is there a spirit part of man that survives the death of the body?

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (RS, NE, KJ, and Dy all render the Hebrew word ne′phesh in this verse as “soul,” thus saying that it is the soul that dies. Some translations that render ne′phesh as “soul” in other passages use the expression “the man” or “the one” in this verse. So, the ne′phesh, the soul, is the person, not an immaterial part of him that survives when his body dies.)

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (The Hebrew word here translated “spirit” is a derivative of ru′ach. Some translators render it “breath.” When that ru′ach, or active life-force, leaves the body, the person’s thoughts perish; they do not continue in another realm.)

Eccl. 3:19-21: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.”

Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in verse 21 regarding the spirit. But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of mankind, that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will invigorate them again.)

Luke 23:46: “Jesus called with a loud voice and said: ‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit [Greek, pneu′ma′].’ When he had said this, he expired.” (Notice that Jesus expired. When his spirit went out he was not on his way to heaven. Not until the third day from this was Jesus resurrected from the dead. Then, as Acts 1:3, 9 shows, it was 40 more days before he ascended to heaven. So, what is the meaning of what Jesus said at the time of his death? He was saying that he knew that, when he died, his future life prospects rested entirely with God.


Were humans made simply to live for a few years and then die?

Gen. 2:15-17: “Jehovah God proceeded to take the man [Adam] and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it. And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (God here spoke of death, not as an unavoidable circumstance, but as what would result from sin. He was urging Adam to avoid it. Compare Romans 6:23.)

Gen. 2:8, 9: “Jehovah God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden.” (After Adam’s sin the human pair were driven out of Eden so that they would not eat from the tree of life, according to Genesis 3:22, 23. So it seems that if Adam had remained obedient to his Creator, God would in time have permitted him to eat from that tree as a symbol of his having proved worthy to live forever. The presence of the tree of life in Eden pointed to such a prospect.)

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (This promise makes it clear that God’s basic purpose regarding the earth and mankind has not changed.)


But in our own case today, is a brief existence, often marred by suffering, what life is meant to be?

Rom. 5:12: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (That is what all of us inherited, not because God purposed it, but because of Adam’s sin.)

Job 14:1: “Man, born of woman, is short-lived and glutted with agitation.” (To a large extent that characterizes life in this imperfect system of things.)

On what basis can anyone hope to have more than his present brief human existence?

Matt. 20:28: “The Son of man [Jesus Christ] came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.”

John 3:16: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

Heb. 5:9: “After he [Jesus Christ] had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” (Also John 3:36)

How will the prospects for future life be realized?

Acts 24:15: “I have hope toward God, which hope these men themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (This will include persons who faithfully served God in the past as well as the large number who never knew enough about the true God to accept or to reject his ways.)

John 11:25, 26: “Jesus said to her [the sister of a man whom he thereaf
ter restored to life]: ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?’” (So, besides the hope of resurrection, Jesus held out something else for persons living when the present wicked world comes to its end. Those with the hope of being earthly subjects of God’s Kingdom have the prospect of surviving and never dying at all.)

Is there any evidence in the makeup of the human body that it was designed to live forever?

It is widely recognized that the capacity of the human brain far exceeds any use to which we put it during our present lifetime, whether we live to 70 or even 100 years of age. The Encyclopædia Britannica states that the human brain “is endowed with considerably more potential than is realizable in the course of one person’s lifetime.” (1976, Vol. 12, p. 998) Scientist Carl Sagan states that the human brain could hold information that “would fill some twenty million volumes, as many as in the world’s largest libraries.” (Cosmos, 1980, p. 278) Regarding the capacity of the human brain’s “filing system,” biochemist Isaac Asimov wrote that it is “perfectly capable of handling any load of learning and memory which the human being is likely to put upon it—and a billion times more than that quantity, too.”—The New York Times Magazine, October 9, 1966, p. 146. (Why was the human brain endowed with such a capacity if it was not to be used? Is it not reasonable that humans, with the capacity for endless learning, were actually designed to live forever?)

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_07.htm

sure_hope

lisa42 said:

Thoughts on angels, God, and spirit guides
Hi Whichwitch,

No, I certainly don't think you're crazy. As a Christian, I believe that there are many spiritual beings around us- angels, if you will. I also do believe the account in Genesis that there really was a good vs. evil "war" at the beginning of time. The angels (who I believe were all created by God), became divided. Some of the angels joined the side of the One who went against the Creator. Basically, I'm talking "the devil" or whatever he might be referred to. Those who sided with him in this heavenly battle stayed loyal to him and were sent down to earth to be with him. Basically, Satan "the devil" and his angels "the demons" started off in heaven but felt like making a lot of mischief- basically by usurping the power of the God the Father/Creator. Lots has been written about this in the bible about that instance and about how Satan now roams about on earth and sends his angels (demons) all around us (as God send HIS angels all around us, as well).
Interestingly, humans normally portray the devil as ugly, green, redhorned, etc. The Bible only refers to his heart and makeup as horrible- it refers to his appearance as quite lovely. Satan is called "The Morning Star" in a couple of instances and I believe even "the beautiful one". This is a being who could easily deceive people into thinking he's real God or one of God's angels- he is the deceiver and also referred to as "The Father of Lies".

From the many readings I've done on angels and different beliefs of angels, I believe that many people have experienced sightings and/or interactions with angels. This can be very deceiving because, as I mentioned above, they would appear as beautiful, not scary or ugly. WHICH angels were they seeing? That's the question. The Bible says to know if an angelic being is from God the Father, that angel will always profess that Jesus is Lord. That angel will also never allow worship of him/itself (also interesting to note- angels referred to by name in the Bible are always male, not females with glowing golden hair. They're strong, and full of almost blinding light. There are also cherubs and seraphim described as types of angels- beings looking very unhuman like). I don't believe there's any instances of those kinds of angels making appearances to humans- usually it was a strong male looking angel. Interesting how the Christmas cards all feature chubby babies with halos or a beautiful female angel on top of the tree- these are actually all inaccurate portrayals on angels. Angels of God who allow people to bow down before them always tell the people back to "I am just a creation- do not worship me- worship only God". In the book of Revelation, an angel of God first appears to the apostle John (who was receiving the revelation, or vision) John was so awed by the light and beauty of this angel, that he began to bow down to him in worship. The angel replied, "No, do not do it- worship only God". An Angel who accepts human worship is NOT from God the Father. I have a friend who brought me a book on praying to angels when she found out I had cancer. She was very well meaning and said she "knew it must be Christian because her mother in law gave her the book and her mother in law attends the Methodist church". I felt kind of awkward, but thanked her for her thoughtfulness, but I told her "I know you mean well, but I just don't believe in praying to angels- the Bible clearly states angels are not to be prayed to." She was a little huffy and I then felt bad that I even said anything at all. You know- it took a couple of months, but she brought that conversation up to me lately, and told me that she thought about it, prayed about, and came to the conclusion that she now agrees with me on not praying to angels.
I know it is the belief of some that they can have a "spirit guide". Although I have not directly experienced such a thing myself (unless you call God's Holy Spirit a spirit guide- I do- but it's not what most people are referring to when they refer to their "spirit guide"- most of people that refer to spirit guides are in "new age" religions, wicca, or paganism). From what I've read (from three people who went through this and then later wrote about their experiences), their "spirit guides" actually physically inhabited their bodies- even talked to them and guided them in positive ways... for a while... after a while the "spirit guide" reveals its true character, shaped by the one he is loyal to- Satan, and evil, very scary things started happening to these particular people. It was finally the intervention of a good friend (in two of these cases- I don't know the outcome of the third)- anyhow, a good friend intervened on behalf of their friends and brought the Lord Jesus Christ into their lives, who was able to accurately and forever send all these "guides" away.

I, personally, like to repeat a certain Bible verse when I feel afraid of influences of the Evil One (Satan and/or his demon-angels)... "Greater is He who is in me, than he who is in the world- God is greater". (referring to "he who is in the world" as Satan).

Okay- some long rambling here & now you may all think I'm kooky, but it's out there- that's what I believe.

Lisa

Do Humans Become Angels?
This is the link to a great article that gives the Bibles viewpoint to this question.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/200608b/article_01.htm

Marcia527

I changed this post
Didn't really apply to anything. Just commenting on how long this thread was. Sorry, I'll try to stick to the subject.

daisy366

Marcia527 said:

I changed this post
Didn't really apply to anything. Just commenting on how long this thread was. Sorry, I'll try to stick to the subject.

Debate on folks
I am reading this on the "day of the dead"!! This discussion is intense and interesting and fascinating!! And endless.

All in all, religion is MAN-made. Everyone sees the world through their own lenses and "fundamental" anything is not a good thing, I don't think. The debate about no right of wrong is an example of that - it depends on who you ask really. Are quotes from the Bible any more valid than quotes from the Koran or any other religion?

Regarding the original question, where we go when we die? - I will leave behind a park bench with my name on it - nestled in beautiful surrounding. I'm hoping my spirit will be recycled as positive energy that continues to contribute good things to this world and maybe others!!

Blessings and positive energy to you all. Mary Ann

sierrareef

daisy366 said:

Debate on folks
I am reading this on the "day of the dead"!! This discussion is intense and interesting and fascinating!! And endless.

All in all, religion is MAN-made. Everyone sees the world through their own lenses and "fundamental" anything is not a good thing, I don't think. The debate about no right of wrong is an example of that - it depends on who you ask really. Are quotes from the Bible any more valid than quotes from the Koran or any other religion?

Regarding the original question, where we go when we die? - I will leave behind a park bench with my name on it - nestled in beautiful surrounding. I'm hoping my spirit will be recycled as positive energy that continues to contribute good things to this world and maybe others!!

Blessings and positive energy to you all. Mary Ann

I'm following a Buddhist path
I've only scanned this thread but I saw somewhere back a request for responses outside the Christian belief system so I thought I'd chime in. I recently lost my wife to cancer and have posted on the caregivers survivor board. My wife was a Christian with a strong Mormon influence, but before we began to date she had drifted from the church. Nevertheless, her Christian faith remained strong.

I was raised a Catholic, was saved in a Southern Baptist chruch as a new US Marine in training in Memphis. Not long after being saved I stopped attending the church and began to question where my faith had come from. I finally accepted that I was agnostic - wanting to believe in God but unable to do so without question, but also unable to say he didn't exist at all. I remained an Agnostic for years and began to formulate my own theories about what spiritual realms and realities were out there.

When my wife was diagnosed with cancer I thought I should help her reconnect on a deeper level with her faith so I began to read the Bible and the Book of Mormon to her at bedtime. From there, we progressed - she had an interest in other faiths so we got books that taught beliefs from different religions. One day she let me know that she had read about Buddhism and that she was quite intrigued with Buddhist teachings.

I then began to read about Buddhism and, simply put, I found my path. For me, for the first time, I had a profound connection to the teachings of a "religion" (some would argus that Buddhism is not a religion). My dear wife led me to my spiritual path when I was trying to reconnect her to her belief system.

Anyway, I am new to the path but feel I have learned enough to talk about it. Suffice it to say that the Buddhist path has been very helpful to me during my wife's cancer journey. I also learned to honor other people's faiths more than I had before. My wife's Christian faith was unwavering and she fought her battle with dignity, strength and a clear conscious, never fearing death because she knew she would be in her Heavenly Father's Kingdom at the end of her battle.

If you are curious about Buddhism, and if I'm capable, I'll try and answer some of your questions. Metta.

PhillieG

sure_hope said:

Why not go to the source of life for the answer?
WHEN you hear the terms “soul” and “spirit,” what comes to your mind? Many believe that these words mean something invisible and immortal that exists inside us. They think that at death this invisible part of a human leaves the body and lives on. Since this belief is so widespread, many are surprised to learn that it is not at all what the Bible teaches.

What, then, is the soul, and what is the spirit, according to God’s Word?

First, consider the soul. You may remember that the Bible was originally written mainly in Hebrew and Greek. When writing about the soul, the Bible writers used the Hebrew word ne′phesh or the Greek word psy·khe′. These two words occur well over 800 times in the Scriptures, and the New World Translation consistently renders them “soul.”


Soul

Definition: In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew ne′phesh and the Greek psy·khe′. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.

What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is?

Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is ne′phesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”)

1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)

1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khai′, the plural form of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)

Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from ne′phesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.)

Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, ne′phesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)

Is the soul the same as the spirit?

Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ru′ach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ru′ach; but the word translated soul is ne′phesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ru′ach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ru′ach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ru′ach, or spirit.)

Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psy·khes′; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneu′ma·tos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”)

Can the human soul die?

Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the ne′phesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)

Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·khe′. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)

Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·khe′] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”

Spirit

Bible writers used the Hebrew word ru′ach or the Greek word pneu′ma when writing about the “spirit.”

Definition: The Hebrew word ru′ach and the Greek pneu′ma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to the active life-force in earthly creatures.

Is there a spirit part of man that survives the death of the body?

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (RS, NE, KJ, and Dy all render the Hebrew word ne′phesh in this verse as “soul,” thus saying that it is the soul that dies. Some translations that render ne′phesh as “soul” in other passages use the expression “the man” or “the one” in this verse. So, the ne′phesh, the soul, is the person, not an immaterial part of him that survives when his body dies.)

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (The Hebrew word here translated “spirit” is a derivative of ru′ach. Some translators render it “breath.” When that ru′ach, or active life-force, leaves the body, the person’s thoughts perish; they do not continue in another realm.)

Eccl. 3:19-21: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.”

Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in verse 21 regarding the spirit. But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of mankind, that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will invigorate them again.)

Luke 23:46: “Jesus called with a loud voice and said: ‘Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit [Greek, pneu′ma′].’ When he had said this, he expired.” (Notice that Jesus expired. When his spirit went out he was not on his way to heaven. Not until the third day from this was Jesus resurrected from the dead. Then, as Acts 1:3, 9 shows, it was 40 more days before he ascended to heaven. So, what is the meaning of what Jesus said at the time of his death? He was saying that he knew that, when he died, his future life prospects rested entirely with God.


Were humans made simply to live for a few years and then die?

Gen. 2:15-17: “Jehovah God proceeded to take the man [Adam] and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it. And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.’” (God here spoke of death, not as an unavoidable circumstance, but as what would result from sin. He was urging Adam to avoid it. Compare Romans 6:23.)

Gen. 2:8, 9: “Jehovah God planted a garden in Eden, toward the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden.” (After Adam’s sin the human pair were driven out of Eden so that they would not eat from the tree of life, according to Genesis 3:22, 23. So it seems that if Adam had remained obedient to his Creator, God would in time have permitted him to eat from that tree as a symbol of his having proved worthy to live forever. The presence of the tree of life in Eden pointed to such a prospect.)

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (This promise makes it clear that God’s basic purpose regarding the earth and mankind has not changed.)


But in our own case today, is a brief existence, often marred by suffering, what life is meant to be?

Rom. 5:12: “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (That is what all of us inherited, not because God purposed it, but because of Adam’s sin.)

Job 14:1: “Man, born of woman, is short-lived and glutted with agitation.” (To a large extent that characterizes life in this imperfect system of things.)

On what basis can anyone hope to have more than his present brief human existence?

Matt. 20:28: “The Son of man [Jesus Christ] came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.”

John 3:16: “God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”

Heb. 5:9: “After he [Jesus Christ] had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” (Also John 3:36)

How will the prospects for future life be realized?

Acts 24:15: “I have hope toward God, which hope these men themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.” (This will include persons who faithfully served God in the past as well as the large number who never knew enough about the true God to accept or to reject his ways.)

John 11:25, 26: “Jesus said to her [the sister of a man whom he thereaf
ter restored to life]: ‘I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; and everyone that is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?’” (So, besides the hope of resurrection, Jesus held out something else for persons living when the present wicked world comes to its end. Those with the hope of being earthly subjects of God’s Kingdom have the prospect of surviving and never dying at all.)

Is there any evidence in the makeup of the human body that it was designed to live forever?

It is widely recognized that the capacity of the human brain far exceeds any use to which we put it during our present lifetime, whether we live to 70 or even 100 years of age. The Encyclopædia Britannica states that the human brain “is endowed with considerably more potential than is realizable in the course of one person’s lifetime.” (1976, Vol. 12, p. 998) Scientist Carl Sagan states that the human brain could hold information that “would fill some twenty million volumes, as many as in the world’s largest libraries.” (Cosmos, 1980, p. 278) Regarding the capacity of the human brain’s “filing system,” biochemist Isaac Asimov wrote that it is “perfectly capable of handling any load of learning and memory which the human being is likely to put upon it—and a billion times more than that quantity, too.”—The New York Times Magazine, October 9, 1966, p. 146. (Why was the human brain endowed with such a capacity if it was not to be used? Is it not reasonable that humans, with the capacity for endless learning, were actually designed to live forever?)

http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_07.htm

You Sound Kind of Tentative ;-)
Sure Hope,
I'm happy for you that you are comfortable and have certainty of what will happen to you after you pass on.
Thanks for your response
-p

PhillieG

daisy366 said:

Debate on folks
I am reading this on the "day of the dead"!! This discussion is intense and interesting and fascinating!! And endless.

All in all, religion is MAN-made. Everyone sees the world through their own lenses and "fundamental" anything is not a good thing, I don't think. The debate about no right of wrong is an example of that - it depends on who you ask really. Are quotes from the Bible any more valid than quotes from the Koran or any other religion?

Regarding the original question, where we go when we die? - I will leave behind a park bench with my name on it - nestled in beautiful surrounding. I'm hoping my spirit will be recycled as positive energy that continues to contribute good things to this world and maybe others!!

Blessings and positive energy to you all. Mary Ann

Hi Mary Ann
I'm glad you enjoyed the question. It's an Oldie but Goodie for sure with as many answers as there are stars in the universe.
Thanks for you input.
-phil

PhillieG

sierrareef said:

I'm following a Buddhist path
I've only scanned this thread but I saw somewhere back a request for responses outside the Christian belief system so I thought I'd chime in. I recently lost my wife to cancer and have posted on the caregivers survivor board. My wife was a Christian with a strong Mormon influence, but before we began to date she had drifted from the church. Nevertheless, her Christian faith remained strong.

I was raised a Catholic, was saved in a Southern Baptist chruch as a new US Marine in training in Memphis. Not long after being saved I stopped attending the church and began to question where my faith had come from. I finally accepted that I was agnostic - wanting to believe in God but unable to do so without question, but also unable to say he didn't exist at all. I remained an Agnostic for years and began to formulate my own theories about what spiritual realms and realities were out there.

When my wife was diagnosed with cancer I thought I should help her reconnect on a deeper level with her faith so I began to read the Bible and the Book of Mormon to her at bedtime. From there, we progressed - she had an interest in other faiths so we got books that taught beliefs from different religions. One day she let me know that she had read about Buddhism and that she was quite intrigued with Buddhist teachings.

I then began to read about Buddhism and, simply put, I found my path. For me, for the first time, I had a profound connection to the teachings of a "religion" (some would argus that Buddhism is not a religion). My dear wife led me to my spiritual path when I was trying to reconnect her to her belief system.

Anyway, I am new to the path but feel I have learned enough to talk about it. Suffice it to say that the Buddhist path has been very helpful to me during my wife's cancer journey. I also learned to honor other people's faiths more than I had before. My wife's Christian faith was unwavering and she fought her battle with dignity, strength and a clear conscious, never fearing death because she knew she would be in her Heavenly Father's Kingdom at the end of her battle.

If you are curious about Buddhism, and if I'm capable, I'll try and answer some of your questions. Metta.

Thanks
Metla, thank you for adding some other views. I believe there are so many paths to enlightenment if that's what's at the end of the journey.
-phil

RE

Marcia527 said:

Since you shared I will too.
Since you shared I will too. At my sister-in-laws funeral my husband felt her presence and thought, "What is it like on the other side?" We lived in a different state and our boys were older and we had left them home to continue in school. A few days later when we arrived home our youngest said he had a dream while we were gone. He said his aunt was in the dream and she told him she couldn't tell him what it was like there because it was against the rules. He told my husband this without knowing what happened or was thought at the church.

TIme to Share
Okay I am jumping in a bit late since this part of the tread happened in August but I will share one of the unique things that has happened to me. I have copied it from where I posted it on the bc board in Dec 08...here goes.

My sister passed away on Dec 15, 2007 sometime between 2:00 a.m. and 4 a.m. we were all there but none of us know the exact time. She was fascinated with things that lit up, toys, eye glasses that had lights in them to read (she called these her magic eyes and she made sure we all had a pair :-)) figurines that lit up and candles, oh how she loved candles. In her home she had at least 20 candles that she lit nightly, it was always beautiful and of course it smelled lovely. She also had a gorgeous heart shaped wreath that lights up which she gave to me day's before she passed saying she was sending her heart with me because she knew I would care for it and keep it lit, she was right.

I have told you this as a lead in to what has been happening in my home over the last week. Please read this with an open mind and heart and know that I am a very happy and stable woman (not a nut job). On my husbands side of the bed he has a touch sensitive lamp which has been there for a year and has functioned properly in all of that time. Well four nights ago it began turning on on its own the moment I would turn out my light to go to sleep; which is in most cases no earlier than 2:30 a.m. Now, I mean that I would close my eyes and the lamp would turn on. I thought how odd the first night and asked him to turn it off, it did it 6 more times till we finally just left it on. In the following days I have checked the light throughout the day and it has remained off. No further light shows occurred until last night, I closed my eyes and on came the light. I shut it off and that was the end of that. Tonight at 3:00 a.m. I turned my lamp out, got comfortable and closed my eyes, ping the room lit up. I asked my husband to turn the light out and he looked perplexed and checked his watch, it was then that I realized it is only turning on in the hours that she passed, in the month that she passed and it is a light and as I mentioned above she loved lights! I sobbed for a few moments and am still tearing a bit. It is just like her to want to soothe my pain of her loss by letting me know she is okay. I then vocally told her "I got it, I understand Susan it's you and you are okay. Once I acknowledged her it stopped happening Please understand that I am not making this up, I am in tears as I write this. I am trusting that you all will understand.

I am putting my reputation as a stable person on the line here. I hope this has not offended anyone as it is not my intention to push a spiritual aspect on anyone, it is just what is happening here and I wanted to share.

As I stated in my intro I wrote that on Dec 5, 2008, the lamp has never done that again and continues to function normally.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences which prompted me to do the same.

RE

Marcia527

RE said:

TIme to Share
Okay I am jumping in a bit late since this part of the tread happened in August but I will share one of the unique things that has happened to me. I have copied it from where I posted it on the bc board in Dec 08...here goes.

My sister passed away on Dec 15, 2007 sometime between 2:00 a.m. and 4 a.m. we were all there but none of us know the exact time. She was fascinated with things that lit up, toys, eye glasses that had lights in them to read (she called these her magic eyes and she made sure we all had a pair :-)) figurines that lit up and candles, oh how she loved candles. In her home she had at least 20 candles that she lit nightly, it was always beautiful and of course it smelled lovely. She also had a gorgeous heart shaped wreath that lights up which she gave to me day's before she passed saying she was sending her heart with me because she knew I would care for it and keep it lit, she was right.

I have told you this as a lead in to what has been happening in my home over the last week. Please read this with an open mind and heart and know that I am a very happy and stable woman (not a nut job). On my husbands side of the bed he has a touch sensitive lamp which has been there for a year and has functioned properly in all of that time. Well four nights ago it began turning on on its own the moment I would turn out my light to go to sleep; which is in most cases no earlier than 2:30 a.m. Now, I mean that I would close my eyes and the lamp would turn on. I thought how odd the first night and asked him to turn it off, it did it 6 more times till we finally just left it on. In the following days I have checked the light throughout the day and it has remained off. No further light shows occurred until last night, I closed my eyes and on came the light. I shut it off and that was the end of that. Tonight at 3:00 a.m. I turned my lamp out, got comfortable and closed my eyes, ping the room lit up. I asked my husband to turn the light out and he looked perplexed and checked his watch, it was then that I realized it is only turning on in the hours that she passed, in the month that she passed and it is a light and as I mentioned above she loved lights! I sobbed for a few moments and am still tearing a bit. It is just like her to want to soothe my pain of her loss by letting me know she is okay. I then vocally told her "I got it, I understand Susan it's you and you are okay. Once I acknowledged her it stopped happening Please understand that I am not making this up, I am in tears as I write this. I am trusting that you all will understand.

I am putting my reputation as a stable person on the line here. I hope this has not offended anyone as it is not my intention to push a spiritual aspect on anyone, it is just what is happening here and I wanted to share.

As I stated in my intro I wrote that on Dec 5, 2008, the lamp has never done that again and continues to function normally.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences which prompted me to do the same.

RE

I'll vouch for you RE. I'd
I'll vouch for you RE. I'd say you're as sane as I am but some others might wonder about me so I'll say you're perfectly sane and leave it at that.

PhillieG

RE said:

TIme to Share
Okay I am jumping in a bit late since this part of the tread happened in August but I will share one of the unique things that has happened to me. I have copied it from where I posted it on the bc board in Dec 08...here goes.

My sister passed away on Dec 15, 2007 sometime between 2:00 a.m. and 4 a.m. we were all there but none of us know the exact time. She was fascinated with things that lit up, toys, eye glasses that had lights in them to read (she called these her magic eyes and she made sure we all had a pair :-)) figurines that lit up and candles, oh how she loved candles. In her home she had at least 20 candles that she lit nightly, it was always beautiful and of course it smelled lovely. She also had a gorgeous heart shaped wreath that lights up which she gave to me day's before she passed saying she was sending her heart with me because she knew I would care for it and keep it lit, she was right.

I have told you this as a lead in to what has been happening in my home over the last week. Please read this with an open mind and heart and know that I am a very happy and stable woman (not a nut job). On my husbands side of the bed he has a touch sensitive lamp which has been there for a year and has functioned properly in all of that time. Well four nights ago it began turning on on its own the moment I would turn out my light to go to sleep; which is in most cases no earlier than 2:30 a.m. Now, I mean that I would close my eyes and the lamp would turn on. I thought how odd the first night and asked him to turn it off, it did it 6 more times till we finally just left it on. In the following days I have checked the light throughout the day and it has remained off. No further light shows occurred until last night, I closed my eyes and on came the light. I shut it off and that was the end of that. Tonight at 3:00 a.m. I turned my lamp out, got comfortable and closed my eyes, ping the room lit up. I asked my husband to turn the light out and he looked perplexed and checked his watch, it was then that I realized it is only turning on in the hours that she passed, in the month that she passed and it is a light and as I mentioned above she loved lights! I sobbed for a few moments and am still tearing a bit. It is just like her to want to soothe my pain of her loss by letting me know she is okay. I then vocally told her "I got it, I understand Susan it's you and you are okay. Once I acknowledged her it stopped happening Please understand that I am not making this up, I am in tears as I write this. I am trusting that you all will understand.

I am putting my reputation as a stable person on the line here. I hope this has not offended anyone as it is not my intention to push a spiritual aspect on anyone, it is just what is happening here and I wanted to share.

As I stated in my intro I wrote that on Dec 5, 2008, the lamp has never done that again and continues to function normally.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences which prompted me to do the same.

RE

I thought you were going to say "I am a very happy and stable woman (not a nut job). On my husbands side of the FAMILY is another story...."

I totally believe you too. There's much more out there than meets the eyes.
Very cool and reassuring too I bet.
-phil

PhillieG

Marcia527 said:

I'll vouch for you RE. I'd
I'll vouch for you RE. I'd say you're as sane as I am but some others might wonder about me so I'll say you're perfectly sane and leave it at that.

Oh boy!

;-)

dasspears

Still no explanation.....
We die....we go somewhere...Where? Do I have to work?? Do I get to enjoy my hobbies?? Or am I floating around forever in some nebulous form? Is there a second end? Maybe I get to meet Mark Twain or Winston Churchill.

I have absolutely nothing to contribute regarding what happens when we die. We talk about eternal life - but what does that really mean?

Maybe it's like the movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray - although I hope not! Or perhaps we no longer exist - like a candle we are extinguished. And the next generation carries on.