Have your views on death and dying changed?

JanJan63

I'm curious because mine certainly have. If someone or something is suffering I am much more for a quick death than a long drawn out, miserable death. We've lost two people in the past week, on the same day, and I realized how much my views have changed. I no longer want to have someone hang in there as long as possible for the sake of the loved ones remaining. I want the person who is ill and suffering to have as quick of a death as possible. When our dg was diagnosed with cancer last fall I had her immediately put to sleep. She was a rescue who was very sensitive and I could not put her through a bunch of nasty tests and painful treatments just to have her a little longer. She wouldn't understand and it would have been cruel.

Last week my father-in-law passed away as well as an older family friend. Both had had cancer previously and both had dementia for some time. While I'm so sad that two wonderful men are lost from our lives, the truth is that they weren't themselves for some time. And both were bedridden and not enjoying life in any way. I used to think it was terrible and insensitive when people would say things like 'their suffering is over'. But it's true. I'd never say it because in that moment all the person wants is their loved one back in any form. But I feel like it's the truth.

I've had a few times during this battle when I've felt so absolutely horrible that I wished I'd die in my sleep. At the time I'd feel like it could be my new normal and I couldn't live with it. But I've gotten through it and have come out the other side and am doing okay today. But if there was no chance of it getting better I'd welcome death.

Anybody's thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Jan

beaumontdave

I'm with you Jan, lingering

I'm with you Jan, lingering for it's own sake never made sense to me. If the quality of life isn't there, over a period of time, I think it should be available to painlessly end one's life. Cali's adopted a way to do so, but I don't know how complex it is, not that it should be simple either, but it should be available to any reasoning adult. Not to politicise your thread, but my views became clear caring for Cindy at the end. She was at home and I was in charge of care, and as you know, I wasn't going allow her to suffer. I'd heard too many stories about brain tumour patients screaming until they pass out only to wake and start again. That wasn't going to happen, but she just slipped into unconsciousness. That experience made things very clear to me and I've prepped for the moment I need to choose. This may make some uncomfortable, but I feel quite at peace that, at some point I can choose my exit, if I need to. As you say, wanting a loved one to stay inspite of ongoing and permanent miserable situation, is just selfish desire......................................Dave

SandiaBuddy

A sensitive subject

You know, I have thought about posting a thread on mortality, but I have so far resisted, so thank you for broaching the subject.

Everyone will die, but many of us have a closer expiration date.  Before cancer, I dealt with it on a rational level, but now I have to deal with it on an emotional level.

One of the things that helps me is to consider mortality on a daily basis when I meditate.  It has taken a lot of the emotional edge off the subject.

I do not plan to linger and in all probability I will take affirmative steps to end my life when the quality of life does not justify continuing.  My state does not have physician assisted suicide, but hopefully when the time comes I will have the opportunity to move to a state that honors that right, otherwise there are messier but still effective techniques available.  

This is an interesting topic.  I look forward to reading other's comments.

Thanks, Jan.

OzarkGal

Quality for me

Quality of life has always been important to me.  I have thought a lot about death since being diagnosed at stage 4.  I am by nature a planner and like to be prepared for what I will face.  Many people I know don't want to talk about death.  Even planning my estate (which I should have done before the diagnosis) brought concerns that I was giving up (farthest from the truth).  When I initally went home from the hospital, the doctors won't tell me anything - so I though I might only have days.  But then my onocologist made an appointment for a PET scan so I thought that he expected me to live until then.  Then there was appointments for MRIs and port surgery and then chemo.  People say you should live every day like it is your last.  I don't think they really do that.  It is paralyzing.  Is this the last time I will hear the birds sing?  Is this the last time I will see the the spring flowers?  Is this the last time I will see my loved ones?  Is this the last time I will walk my dog?  Paralyzing.  Not knowing when death will come makes it hard to know what to do about treatments.  Will the treatment help me or hurt me?  Will I be trying treatments that have powerball odds of helping me?  Will I be trying treatments right up until my death?  I don't know.  Will my onocologist let me know when I need to go on hospice?  I am not sure. I knew a lady who had cancer and her family kept pushing her to try treatments even though she wanted to stop.  When the doctor finally ordered hospice, she died the next day.  I think that it was more about her family not being able to let her go than about her comfort/well-being. When I die I hope that I go quickly and suffer little.  Some descriptions I have read of liver failure, however, are prolonged and painful.  This just isn't easy.  

Trubrit

Ah, death!

Something I don't want to do, but will have to, one day. 

When I was going through the worst of this journey, I asked my friend in Oregon, where assisted suicide is legal, if she would host me. She said yes. I doubt I would actually put her through such a traumatic experience, but it was on my mind. 

Several of my family have had Alzheimer's, including my mum. It is wicked! To watch such a strong woman become a baby, was horrendous. I was happy when she passed away. I mourned her loss before her death, when she was alive but not living. 

I can't imagine not being alive. HA! I just want to live as long as my kids are alive, then I'll happily go.  Too bad we can't make it so. 

Tru

 

darcher

Cancer changes perspective

  I to used to think that the longer a person lived the better but the quality of life matters more than I used to think.  At one or more points when I was nearly bed ridden and wasn't able to go anywhere due to the mostly mental agony and bathroom accidents I thought about it.  I'm still not 100% but am close enough that I'm in a lets see what happens phase.  If I'm stuck in the house permanently I don't think I can go on.  It would make no sense.  I'm not home bound but have lost a lot of that get up and go I used to have.  Maybe it's depression or just the anxiety of not knowing where I stand.  This takes at least 5 years to be considered cured and I'm coming up on my first year.  Seems like it was just yesterday that the doc came in and said we found a tumor.

  In a couple weeks I go back in for a colonoscopy and I'm not certain it's going to come back blank. I hope so but I'm not confident.  I've got too many symptoms I had before surgery that crept back in.  Which leads me to a question I'll probably post in a new thread.  If it does come back do they repeat the same process including radiation?  

  When the other woman who was a friend of my wife died back in December it was a reality shock.  Her and I were both diagnosed the same month.  Although hers was pancreatic which has a 1% survival rate it got me thinking that even though mine has a much higher survival rate it's still not a guarantee.  

Annabelle41415

Death

It's a subject that no one really wants to talk about.  I've often thought about wanting a quick accident or heart attack to not linger also.  My mom did for 14 months and it was hard to watch.  I'm sure no one wants to go through it but it is part of life and all I'm wanting is when I'm to that stage where I'm not able to handle pain anymore that they give me everything in their arsenal of medicine that is available as I'm not wanting my last stages of life to go out in pain.  I'm still afraid of death even though I'm a Christian.  I've prayed every day for my whole life and even though I'm wanting that life with Jesus - I'm still afraid.  It's hard and you've been through a lot.  I'm wishing and praying for some good thoughts ahead for you. 

Kim

JanJan63

Thanks for being so

Thanks for being so forthcoming everyone! It's good to know I'm not the only one and that my thoughts and feelings aren't off the wall. It's tough having to face your own mortality. I'm grateful for every day that I'm feeling pretty well but I do not want to linger on at some point being a burden and being miserable.

Jan

danker

JanJan63 said:

Thanks for being so

Thanks for being so forthcoming everyone! It's good to know I'm not the only one and that my thoughts and feelings aren't off the wall. It's tough having to face your own mortality. I'm grateful for every day that I'm feeling pretty well but I do not want to linger on at some point being a burden and being miserable.

Jan

Death

The ideal way to go is in an airline crash on your way home from vacation.  It's sudden and probably painless. and your children sue the airline for a bundle.  If only!!!

abrub

I used to be terrified of death

But going through treatments and seeing others made me realize that there are fates worth than death.  I'm fully on board for quality of life; I don't want to simply be breathing, I want to live my life.  When that isn't possible, it's time to go.  None of us will get out of here alive.  I've opted out of treatments that could potentially cure my cancer (tho definitely still questionable) because the side effects would preclude me from enjoying life.  I'd be tied to my house and my bathroom.  Thanks, but I want to keep kayaking and keep living.  My choices aren't right for everyone, but my family knows, understands and agrees.

Thanks, Jan, for bringing this up.

Alice

BRHMichigan

Memorial Day

How fitting to discuss this now. My sister's best friend died of breast cancer about 10 years ago. At one point she told my sister that she couldn't keep living for others. I think there's such wisdom in that statement. It touched me deeply because I am more concerned about leaving my family and not being able to keep fulfilling their needs, than I am of the process of dying. 

I have suffered quite a bit already; and I know there are pain meds to help at the end. Seeing both of my parents die of cancer, I will choose hospice when the suffering becomes too great. They make phenomenal decisions and keep patients comfortable and at peace. I can't believe I have not considered assisted suicide. Before all this I would have probably thought I'd turn to it. But that's not entered my mind. I believe it should definitely be an option, but it's not for me, at least not yet. 

I try to think of times when I've been so scared, like going into surgery...and how they gave me drugs to calm me, and I was immediately at peace. And although recovery was pretty awful at the time, I woke up smiling every day, thankful for life. 

I have always related to Jesus through his suffering. I look at this as just another episode in my life that is maybe a little closer to the suffering He experienced. 

lp1964

Mortality?

When we are young and healthy it seems we will live forever and have plenty of time to do things we want to do. I was 49 when I got diagnosed and after I finished treatment I got keenly aware of my mortality. Since a had at least a perceived brush with death I have two contradicting feelings about it. For one death became kind of familiar and real. Two it has become totally real that it’s gonna happen again, it’s just a matter of time. It’s calming and unnerving at the same time. 

 

I dont know how id would react if my cancer came back soon or just got old and my life would just end naturally. Doesn’t matter I guess, I just don’t want to suffer and struggle. 

 

Thars why I chose to live life to the fullest. Nothing crazy, just make sure that by the end of each day I can say that this was an awesome day. I practice what I didn’t understand when I was younger: living one day at a time. 

I remember Jeff said it ones when he was getting to the end: we all gonna day and some people say that we can get hit by a bus tomorrow. But when you are seriously ill you see the bus coming at you full speed and and the high beams on. He was right. Cancer just made me sweet of death much more, but I worry about it when I get there. 

Woody Allen said: I’m not afraid of death, just don’t want to be there when it happens.

Lets hope we go out easy.

Laz

 

SandiaBuddy

lp1964 said:

Mortality?

When we are young and healthy it seems we will live forever and have plenty of time to do things we want to do. I was 49 when I got diagnosed and after I finished treatment I got keenly aware of my mortality. Since a had at least a perceived brush with death I have two contradicting feelings about it. For one death became kind of familiar and real. Two it has become totally real that it’s gonna happen again, it’s just a matter of time. It’s calming and unnerving at the same time. 

 

I dont know how id would react if my cancer came back soon or just got old and my life would just end naturally. Doesn’t matter I guess, I just don’t want to suffer and struggle. 

 

Thars why I chose to live life to the fullest. Nothing crazy, just make sure that by the end of each day I can say that this was an awesome day. I practice what I didn’t understand when I was younger: living one day at a time. 

I remember Jeff said it ones when he was getting to the end: we all gonna day and some people say that we can get hit by a bus tomorrow. But when you are seriously ill you see the bus coming at you full speed and and the high beams on. He was right. Cancer just made me sweet of death much more, but I worry about it when I get there. 

Woody Allen said: I’m not afraid of death, just don’t want to be there when it happens.

Lets hope we go out easy.

Laz

 

High beams on

"when you are seriously ill you see the bus coming at you full speed and with the high beams on."  I like that analogy.  Or better yet, coming at full speed with no brakes, the high beams on and the horn blaring.

JanJan63

lp1964 said:

Mortality?

When we are young and healthy it seems we will live forever and have plenty of time to do things we want to do. I was 49 when I got diagnosed and after I finished treatment I got keenly aware of my mortality. Since a had at least a perceived brush with death I have two contradicting feelings about it. For one death became kind of familiar and real. Two it has become totally real that it’s gonna happen again, it’s just a matter of time. It’s calming and unnerving at the same time. 

 

I dont know how id would react if my cancer came back soon or just got old and my life would just end naturally. Doesn’t matter I guess, I just don’t want to suffer and struggle. 

 

Thars why I chose to live life to the fullest. Nothing crazy, just make sure that by the end of each day I can say that this was an awesome day. I practice what I didn’t understand when I was younger: living one day at a time. 

I remember Jeff said it ones when he was getting to the end: we all gonna day and some people say that we can get hit by a bus tomorrow. But when you are seriously ill you see the bus coming at you full speed and and the high beams on. He was right. Cancer just made me sweet of death much more, but I worry about it when I get there. 

Woody Allen said: I’m not afraid of death, just don’t want to be there when it happens.

Lets hope we go out easy.

Laz

 

That's a good way to describe

That's a good way to describe it, Laz, thanks. I've spent enugh time thinking about it and doing foolish things like looking at a young tree and wondering if I'll see it grow, looking at my family and pets and wondering how long I'll be there for them. I have dwelled on those hard and sad thoughts and it hasn't helped me in any way. Now I just don't think about it much at all. It's coming, as it is for everyone. But in the meantime I just want to live. And live as well as I can.

I do as much as I can every day. It drives my husband crazy because until recently I was too sick to do much of anything and he's scared I'm going to burn out. But until I have to go back on chemo and everything comes to a screeching halt, I want to do as much as I can. That's what gives me joy and fulfillment. Every time I'm out in the sun I'm grateful to be able to do so. Last summer I was on chemo and was sun sensitive and was in the sun for no longer than necessary. This year so far I can put my face to it and drink it in. I'm even getting a bit of a tan!

My horse is having a medical issue, he has Cushing's, so I have to go out there every day and give him a pill. Carefully disguised in a cookie, by the way. I am able to do so right now. But I had my CT scan yesteerday and I'll get my results next week and if I'm back on chemo I'll have to figure something out for him. Like make up the cookies and give them to the guy who feeds them and he can give it to him every day.

I'm praying that I'll have the summer this year without chemo. I can do it in the fall, hopefully. I can't avoid it, it's just a matter of when. Yeah, I'm going to die one of these days, we all will. But until then I hope to live my life as well and as happily as I can.

Jan

PamRav

Thanks JanJan for an interesting post

Even as my treatment is finished , for now, and I’m playing that awful waiting game that we all must play , will it come back or not, is that pain in my chest a tumor etc etc the thought of death is never too far away from my mind. When the time comes will I be brave and make courageous choices? I’d like to think so.  As most of you have expressed here I have no desire to linger just for the sake of staying alive.

i worry too, that I’m not always using the time I am now blessed with in living life to he fullest.  Is cleaning out my closet, cooking meals, napping, doing the ADL really living life to the fullest?   There are times that I feel I should be doing something profound.  Only I’ve never been able to hone in on what that profound might be.  Traveling no longer holds an interest for me, I don’t think I’ll be writing the great American novel, not going to be climbing the high peaks.  I guess I’ll be sticking with the daily mundane. In truth I feel most comfortable and the safest in my own home curled into my chair with a good book at hand.

Realizing that I’m just one little person out of millions, all of us in life threatening circumstances trying to make the best of it.  Sometimes feeling bold and empowered and other times Sitting feeling sorry for my self.

peace to all of us here,

pam 

Trubrit

PamRav said:

Thanks JanJan for an interesting post

Even as my treatment is finished , for now, and I’m playing that awful waiting game that we all must play , will it come back or not, is that pain in my chest a tumor etc etc the thought of death is never too far away from my mind. When the time comes will I be brave and make courageous choices? I’d like to think so.  As most of you have expressed here I have no desire to linger just for the sake of staying alive.

i worry too, that I’m not always using the time I am now blessed with in living life to he fullest.  Is cleaning out my closet, cooking meals, napping, doing the ADL really living life to the fullest?   There are times that I feel I should be doing something profound.  Only I’ve never been able to hone in on what that profound might be.  Traveling no longer holds an interest for me, I don’t think I’ll be writing the great American novel, not going to be climbing the high peaks.  I guess I’ll be sticking with the daily mundane. In truth I feel most comfortable and the safest in my own home curled into my chair with a good book at hand.

Realizing that I’m just one little person out of millions, all of us in life threatening circumstances trying to make the best of it.  Sometimes feeling bold and empowered and other times Sitting feeling sorry for my self.

peace to all of us here,

pam 

It comes at a cost

I've known people up and leave everything and every one to travel the world. I admire their courage, but I certainly do not have that kind of money. I still have to work part-time, two jobs, I will never fulfil my bucket list; BUT, I LOVE my two jobs. I LOVE every single day the sun shines, or the rain pours, or the wind blows. I sing while I clean. I LOVE the old Mowtown & R&B songs, I sing along and dance while I clean. Do everything with a purpose and you're not wasting time. 

Just my thoughts, Pam. 

Tru

Trubrit

I'm not dead yet

I remember when I was first diagnosed; other peoples reactions were worse than mine. I had two people burst out in tears. The look of sorrow on one face was extreme, so much so that I put my hand out to her and said 'Its OK, I'm not dead yet'. I swear there were people planning my funeral. 

Once I got past the initial shock and the 'I'm going to die' stage, I decided that not only am I going to live, but I am going to live until I'm 82.  I chose 82 because at that point, our lovely friend Danker was 82, and I chose him as my hero. Now he's about to turn 86, so I've upped my goal. Of course, I plan for Dan to live to 100 at least, and I'll just keep upping the goal with each of his birthdays. 

I will happen when it happens, I just pray it doesn't happen until.......

Tru

 

 

BRHMichigan

Living simply

Great comments! I think people expect us to travel and do pointless bucket list stuff. I prefer sitting on my porch in my neighborhood of small homes, checking out nature. I appreciate being able to drive to the grocery store. And I try not to wonder if this is my last Summer here on earth. There is such wisdom in living one day at a time indeed. 

SandiaBuddy

PamRav said:

Thanks JanJan for an interesting post

Even as my treatment is finished , for now, and I’m playing that awful waiting game that we all must play , will it come back or not, is that pain in my chest a tumor etc etc the thought of death is never too far away from my mind. When the time comes will I be brave and make courageous choices? I’d like to think so.  As most of you have expressed here I have no desire to linger just for the sake of staying alive.

i worry too, that I’m not always using the time I am now blessed with in living life to he fullest.  Is cleaning out my closet, cooking meals, napping, doing the ADL really living life to the fullest?   There are times that I feel I should be doing something profound.  Only I’ve never been able to hone in on what that profound might be.  Traveling no longer holds an interest for me, I don’t think I’ll be writing the great American novel, not going to be climbing the high peaks.  I guess I’ll be sticking with the daily mundane. In truth I feel most comfortable and the safest in my own home curled into my chair with a good book at hand.

Realizing that I’m just one little person out of millions, all of us in life threatening circumstances trying to make the best of it.  Sometimes feeling bold and empowered and other times Sitting feeling sorry for my self.

peace to all of us here,

pam 

Bucket list

Pam:

Only you know what is right for you.  When I was first diagnosed and did not know how long I might live, I looked closely at how I was living my life and decided I might fine-tune a few things, but I would not make wholesale changes.  I continue to feel the same way.  I think attitude has a lot to do with satisfaction in life.  As long as I see the sun shine (or the rain fall), hear the birds sing, see the children play, listen to jazz, have a glass of wine and make occassional trips (I love to hike the Grand Canyon) life is good for me.  

po18guy

Haven't changed at all

"My hide's about as tough as it can get. Gonna die some day, but I ain't dead yet"

  -  Mark "Porkchop" Holder,  blues singer

I am Catholic. I look forward, not to death, as that is a purely human term and perception. I look forward to life, and life in abundance. I know the purpose and valiue of suffering, and I suffer also for having that radically counter-cultural view. Yet, I do not turn away from suffering. In the model of great Saints such as Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross, I strive to embrace suffering, as my Savior suffered for me.

Like I said, radical. 

JanJan63

You all have been so honest

You all have been so honest in your answers! I really appreciate it, thank you. I hope the discussion has been cathartic for you as well as it has been for me. 

I agree that you have to enjoy the little things. I doubt I can ever go on a real trip or something like that. Between money issues and my health I can't see it happening. But some really lovely and amazing things happen right here at home and I enjoy every one of them. Some of you are on my facebook so you know I recently got to hand feed milk to an orphan calf. I also got to hold a week old baby goat. And on a more mundane level, I'm grateful every time I can go to the grocery store by myself. For months until about March I couldn't handle even going with my husband. If I went I'd have to go sit in the car partway through.

I'm so grateful to just be able to go out for dinner with my close friends. And that I can drive with my husband tomorrow to the town two hours away where his dad's celebration of life and burial are happening. I'm so grateful that I have the strength to go see my horse every day now because he's been sick and has a medication he needs every day. I'm grateful to be able to walk my dogs and throw a ball for them in the yard. I've been working on our garden and that makes me happy and content. I enjoy the little things in life because being sick with chemo or from other complications has taken even those very basic things everyone takes for granted away. But now they're back and I am so very grateful and thankful in my prayers every night for the blessing of being able to do normal, everyday things.

Jan