Have your views on death and dying changed?

ron50

No change

   I did not fear death when I was diagnosed and I still don't.  To be quite frank I was not very happy when cancer found me. I knew how friends and family felt about me ending my own life. So here was the perfect solution , I could die without a guilty conscious. Well I havent died and i'm still not worried or scared of it.  Just slightly miffed at the perverse nature of life and the universe. Perhaps the secret to survival is to genuinely  not care whether you do or not. I have been cancer free for just over 20 years and there was probably three years at the start that I had active cancer.  I have suffered a lot during those years but i just keep going, such is life. Ron.

Cindy225

Don't Skip to the End...

I just finished reading a book that Beth suggested in an earlier post which is also on Bill Gates "Top 5 Books to Read this Summer". "Everything Happens for a Reason" is a memoir by Kate Bowler, a Duke divinity prof, diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer.  A passage that really resonates with me occurs when she is pondering her own mortality with her doctor and he tells her "We're all terminal. Don't skip to the end. Don't skip to the end."

So that's how I am living my life.  "Be here now". Being aware and present in every moment of my life.  Trying to be a better version of myself everyday.  It's aspirational and keeps me focused. Similar to Tru, I do alot of dancing...  

 

Trubrit

Cindy225 said:

Don't Skip to the End...

I just finished reading a book that Beth suggested in an earlier post which is also on Bill Gates "Top 5 Books to Read this Summer". "Everything Happens for a Reason" is a memoir by Kate Bowler, a Duke divinity prof, diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer.  A passage that really resonates with me occurs when she is pondering her own mortality with her doctor and he tells her "We're all terminal. Don't skip to the end. Don't skip to the end."

So that's how I am living my life.  "Be here now". Being aware and present in every moment of my life.  Trying to be a better version of myself everyday.  It's aspirational and keeps me focused. Similar to Tru, I do alot of dancing...  

 

Funny you should say that

My friend (in England) and I were just bemoaning (via Skype) how we hate the saying 'Everything happens for a reason'. Its an awful blanket statement.  Ask that to the child who has been tortured and murdered by his parents, or the vulnerable person who has been kicked around and trodden on because he can't defend himself. Innumerable numbers of people since the beginning of time have suffered for no reason.   - Well, thats my opinion, and you know I'm never........  

For some, yes, things happen for reason, for others, they are the sad end to others evil.  No, I don't like that saying at all. 

I would still read the book though.  And we definitely shouldn't skip to the end.  

Keep on dancing, Cindy - and running. 

Tru

Noneya

It's a personal thing

I faced it over 37 years ago, first in Air Force, then in Law Enforcement and finally in Hazmat removal. So when I was told about the cancer in me I was mad that after those carreers it was something mundane in my mind that would get me. My bucket list has been changed to enjoy what I can. When I believe I can no longer enjoy life, I figure I can stop treatments and go for a little walk into the desert and let nature take her way with me.

Cindy225

Trubrit said:

Funny you should say that

My friend (in England) and I were just bemoaning (via Skype) how we hate the saying 'Everything happens for a reason'. Its an awful blanket statement.  Ask that to the child who has been tortured and murdered by his parents, or the vulnerable person who has been kicked around and trodden on because he can't defend himself. Innumerable numbers of people since the beginning of time have suffered for no reason.   - Well, thats my opinion, and you know I'm never........  

For some, yes, things happen for reason, for others, they are the sad end to others evil.  No, I don't like that saying at all. 

I would still read the book though.  And we definitely shouldn't skip to the end.  

Keep on dancing, Cindy - and running. 

Tru

...And Other Lies I've Loved

My bad Tru- the full book title also includes  ...And Other Lies I've Loved...  Kate Bowler has lots to say about that expression as well as others...   

Enjoy the book. 

Cindy

 

OzarkGal

Cindy225 said:

Don't Skip to the End...

I just finished reading a book that Beth suggested in an earlier post which is also on Bill Gates "Top 5 Books to Read this Summer". "Everything Happens for a Reason" is a memoir by Kate Bowler, a Duke divinity prof, diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer.  A passage that really resonates with me occurs when she is pondering her own mortality with her doctor and he tells her "We're all terminal. Don't skip to the end. Don't skip to the end."

So that's how I am living my life.  "Be here now". Being aware and present in every moment of my life.  Trying to be a better version of myself everyday.  It's aspirational and keeps me focused. Similar to Tru, I do alot of dancing...  

 

Timeframe

Yes, we are all terminal but it is very different if the timeframe is weeks or months instead of years.  I am not afraid of dying.  It is that I am not ready to die.  Who can be at age 50? 

lp1964

Noneya...and

The end of your post reminded me about something. I grew up in a tiny village in Eastern Europe where we lived the way most people lived like 200 years ago. I became a citizen of the computer age with all its curses and amazing benefits. Even though I enjoy this modern life tremendously sometimes I imagine finishing it the way it started. Would be so liberating living without the concept of time passing too fast by our or perception. Without all these labels, titles and posturing. Just being a pure human being doing the basic tasks of life. 

We know too much: back then people didn’t know when they were born, how old they are, how long is a year or a decacade and how long they are supposed to live by the statistics. Pain was just pain. Didn’t know where the organs were in the body and know all these illnesses that could be happening inside them. Didnt stress about almost snything and at some point they got week and tired and died. 

 

Id like to experiences that just once more: just the way things are without any of this extra stuff and often make belief concepts. I’m not spiritual and completely fine with the fact that when my body stops functioning my consciousness all me perceptions, sensations and thought will end. My body will deteriorate and fall apart into the building blocks a was put together with before I was born. I’m kind of excited that my building blocks will be used up again making brand now babies, animals, plants and minerals and this process will go on forever and ever.

Krishna: I would rather die 10 minutes early than 10 year too late. 

Laz

JanJan63

I like that Krishna saying,

I like that Krishna saying, Laz. It's so true!

Jan

Phoenix_66

During my ongoing 12-year

During my ongoing 12-year battle, I have often thought I wished the suffering was over but my faith almost always reminds me in some fashion of the horrific suffering Jesus endured for us. With that thought, the least I can do is to wait on His perfect timing to remove me from this temporary life even if that means more suffering. Joshua 1:9 - "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go." 

I have spent some time making preparations for that day such as finally retiring (even though I still had a lot to give) so that my family will be taken care of financially after my death. My retirement allowed me to take an option where my wife will receive the same check I get for the rest of her life after I'm gone. 

Even though it is sometimes hard, I'm not worried and actually look forward to seeing the good God is working out through this trial.

 

beaumontdave

ALS has me pondering things this morning

An NFL player named Dwight Clark passed yesterday of it and Stephen Hawking passed a month or so, of a variant the made him the longest survivor of this disease ever, 40+ years frozen in that chair. Clark passed after a year of it at 61. I can't say which path I'd prefer if I had to choose, because either way you lose control of making that final choice we've talked about, you're as helpless as a baby. I guess it's in my head because I have a "cousin" of ALS called CMT Disease, which is the most common Muscular Dystrophy. Both deal with the breakdown of nerves, ALS just eventually gets to them all, while CMT generally just affects extremities. Severe cases put children in wheelchairs for life, I just was a bit slower with balance and clumsiness issues, but have had a very happy, regular life. Stoic philosophy, mindfulness, and other disciplines teach acceptance or indifference to things one can not change, but for all the crap I've dealt with, I'm grateful I've haven't had to travel that path. For all the reading and effort I've made to direct my thought and curb unproductive emotional excesses, that disease and the choices that come at you, gives me pause, even now.

Annabelle41415

Phoenix_66 said:

During my ongoing 12-year

During my ongoing 12-year battle, I have often thought I wished the suffering was over but my faith almost always reminds me in some fashion of the horrific suffering Jesus endured for us. With that thought, the least I can do is to wait on His perfect timing to remove me from this temporary life even if that means more suffering. Joshua 1:9 - "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go." 

I have spent some time making preparations for that day such as finally retiring (even though I still had a lot to give) so that my family will be taken care of financially after my death. My retirement allowed me to take an option where my wife will receive the same check I get for the rest of her life after I'm gone. 

Even though it is sometimes hard, I'm not worried and actually look forward to seeing the good God is working out through this trial.

 

God is Awesome

I'm still afraid of dying - not because of dying but because I'm afraid I'm never good enough, but keep reminding myself that it's God's wonderful Grace's that will allow me to be with Him.  You have done well preparing, and it's good to hear that you are comfortable with the time here but allow yourself to "go home."  God Bless.

Kim

Noneya

ip1964 you are so right

Your right knowing to much seems worse than not at times, instant info is killing us faster, my Grandfather was Amish and married a Gypsy right off the boat, When he passed 25 yrs ago he was between 102 and 110. We know he completed 8th grade and one of his daily duties was to ring the school bell. When cleaning his house after he passed we found the bell in the attic. We let the school know what had happen and they gave us the date of the theft from old records. And I'll be hanged if they didn't let us keep it, hangs in my dad's basement now. He woke one morning two days after my third kid was born and baptized in the familyway(walk through the pig barn and bath right after) said he was going back to bed to sleep and he could tell Grandma about her Great Granddaughter. I called my dad and brothers and they came by to see him, ( Grandpa always said "I can sleep when I'm dead") two hours later the Dr. pronounced him dead. He had cancer from head to toe but never knew. He had fed the cows and milked them that morning 3am. I don't mind knowing if the Dr has hope for me but don't just keep me going forever, let me choose my day of judgement, and may I be judged by God with dignity in tack. Though I now live in the desert, I grew up on the Great Lakes and spending my last hours fishing would be great.

 

And there are times i have to take comfort in the story of Job, and believe that these are just tests I will survive.

Trubrit

Noneya said:

ip1964 you are so right

Your right knowing to much seems worse than not at times, instant info is killing us faster, my Grandfather was Amish and married a Gypsy right off the boat, When he passed 25 yrs ago he was between 102 and 110. We know he completed 8th grade and one of his daily duties was to ring the school bell. When cleaning his house after he passed we found the bell in the attic. We let the school know what had happen and they gave us the date of the theft from old records. And I'll be hanged if they didn't let us keep it, hangs in my dad's basement now. He woke one morning two days after my third kid was born and baptized in the familyway(walk through the pig barn and bath right after) said he was going back to bed to sleep and he could tell Grandma about her Great Granddaughter. I called my dad and brothers and they came by to see him, ( Grandpa always said "I can sleep when I'm dead") two hours later the Dr. pronounced him dead. He had cancer from head to toe but never knew. He had fed the cows and milked them that morning 3am. I don't mind knowing if the Dr has hope for me but don't just keep me going forever, let me choose my day of judgement, and may I be judged by God with dignity in tack. Though I now live in the desert, I grew up on the Great Lakes and spending my last hours fishing would be great.

 

And there are times i have to take comfort in the story of Job, and believe that these are just tests I will survive.

Same with my beloved Uncle

He was out in his garden, doing what he always did, working hard, went to bed and never woke up.  When they did his autopsy, they found Cancer everywhere.  They said he 'must have been in pain', but he was your old school country man, never a complaint.  

I also agree about knowing too much.  I have extremely high cholesterol, but I'm allergic to all statins and even Red Rice Yeast; so I quit getting my cholesterol checked. I'd rather not know, seeing that I can't take meds, and have no desire to cut down on my butter and cheese. 

Sometimes knowledge is a double-edged sword. 

Tru

SandiaBuddy

Trubrit said:

Same with my beloved Uncle

He was out in his garden, doing what he always did, working hard, went to bed and never woke up.  When they did his autopsy, they found Cancer everywhere.  They said he 'must have been in pain', but he was your old school country man, never a complaint.  

I also agree about knowing too much.  I have extremely high cholesterol, but I'm allergic to all statins and even Red Rice Yeast; so I quit getting my cholesterol checked. I'd rather not know, seeing that I can't take meds, and have no desire to cut down on my butter and cheese. 

Sometimes knowledge is a double-edged sword. 

Tru

I don't wanna know

Increasingly, not knowing has appeal. . .

beaumontdave

SandiaBuddy said:

I don't wanna know

Increasingly, not knowing has appeal. . .

I heartily held to that point

I heartily held to that point-of-view in order to compartmentalize my CRC in my mind, and allow myself freedom from thinking about it any more than I had to. I expected they got it with the colectomy, I thought the chemo would clean it up. When the three mets showed up, I was floored for the moment, then felt my surgeon would get it. When it popped up again in one spot in the liver, I had faith they'd get it out. Cock-eyed optimism and asking for no projections, estimates, or guesses, seems to have served me well. Of course, I tried to carry that through my wife's brain tumor, keep her mind off it, focus on fun/adventure as much as I could, getting lost in work and home projects.  But by 4 1/2 years, when it showed back up to stay[2013] I coulld no longer contain my private fear and anguish, knowing her prognosis, being there with every treatment, procedure, and hospitalization. That's when I came here to express my pain and fear.  I'd been reading since 07, but I had to talk with, and read about people walking similar paths. There was no one else to talk to, and if I broke down, it was only in front of a keyboard.  Anyway, there is something to be said for limiting the focus, getting educated certainly, but not obsessing more than is useful. I know some here have and do dive into the challenge of it, learn all they can, get hyper-involved in every aspect, change their lives and lifestyles, and I applaud their courage, and know that people taking charge of their care, has saved lives, and changed the quality of care they received. My approach served us well, we had a good quality of life up to her last Christmas, and she was gone on Apr. 30. If asked now what I think of it all, having read  some on Stiocism, mindfulness, and other philosophies, it still comes down to the "Serenity Prayer", having the wisdom to know what you can and cannot change, as fine a line as that may appear to be.  A final note; my tests don't coincide with my anniversarys at all, so it feels odd to say I'm 11 years out and 4 years NED in Sep. when my checkup/bloodwork is in June and my scan won't happen until Jan..   So today I'll celebrate the test, CEA is solid at 2.6, and all is well.....................................................................Dave

Helen321

I'm okay with dying. I

I'm okay with dying. I accepted it five years ago and by chance at this point I got to live. I'm living in a shell of the body I used to live in, became single, who'd want to date me like this. There are things worse than. Death={ .I think the hardest part of the concept of death to me is the idea that my things with still be here when I'm gone. My pictures, my decorations, my garden, my house. And then of course my kids and my family. All the good times they'll have without me. All the sad times I'd cause them. Overall though death is okay. I don't believe in an afterlife and like my cat that just got returned to me, I'd be a pile of ashes. That's okay. I won't know that I'm dead. 

Donna Faye

Glad to see this post

I am from the uterine board but read lots of areas as pelvic rads after effects info was wanted. At 78, I probably have a different view than the younger folk. I had BC in 1997 - stage 3 w/ 20 involved lymph nodes in left arm. Prognosis was grim, but took all the advice for the best chance. At 55, I was not ready to give up and to everyone's surprise, NED for 20 years. However, I had prepared to die and that changed everything - got all the paperwork needed to die and not leave children in a mess. Then I could live.  So, in 2017 when cancer came calling again, it was easy to get my ducks in a row as had never not had all legal things done. BUT, now have UPSC, an aggressive cancer and have not been NED for 2 years. So, this time I am more interested in dying well than worrying about fighting. So, have had the "end of life" talk with my 3 wonderful adult children and my primary doctor. Knowing that they are all in agreement on how I want things to be, I am at peace. As far as humanly possible, I am ready as dealth has no fear for me. I have experienced death with parents and sibling, friends, and my wonderful dogs and horses. So, I take one day at a time. I laugh at myself at water aerobics as I wonder why I keep in shape with the sword of Damocles over my head. But, that is LIFE. I believe I have had a good life with more joy than hurt, and so far, have survived damn near everything. Just glad to see that others are not afraid to discuss death which we all know is the circle of life. Peace.

Trubrit

Donna Faye said:

Glad to see this post

I am from the uterine board but read lots of areas as pelvic rads after effects info was wanted. At 78, I probably have a different view than the younger folk. I had BC in 1997 - stage 3 w/ 20 involved lymph nodes in left arm. Prognosis was grim, but took all the advice for the best chance. At 55, I was not ready to give up and to everyone's surprise, NED for 20 years. However, I had prepared to die and that changed everything - got all the paperwork needed to die and not leave children in a mess. Then I could live.  So, in 2017 when cancer came calling again, it was easy to get my ducks in a row as had never not had all legal things done. BUT, now have UPSC, an aggressive cancer and have not been NED for 2 years. So, this time I am more interested in dying well than worrying about fighting. So, have had the "end of life" talk with my 3 wonderful adult children and my primary doctor. Knowing that they are all in agreement on how I want things to be, I am at peace. As far as humanly possible, I am ready as dealth has no fear for me. I have experienced death with parents and sibling, friends, and my wonderful dogs and horses. So, I take one day at a time. I laugh at myself at water aerobics as I wonder why I keep in shape with the sword of Damocles over my head. But, that is LIFE. I believe I have had a good life with more joy than hurt, and so far, have survived damn near everything. Just glad to see that others are not afraid to discuss death which we all know is the circle of life. Peace.

Hello Donna Faye

You story is a wonder, though I am sad that your Cancer came back after such a long time. 

You information motivates me to look into the finacial side of death.  I have purchased my plot, and informed my family that the cheapest casket possible, but notihng beyond that. 

I have also started clearing out. So much 'stuff' that the children do not need to go through. 

I wish you the best as you move forward with your new fight. 

Tru

Helen321

Donna Faye said:

Glad to see this post

I am from the uterine board but read lots of areas as pelvic rads after effects info was wanted. At 78, I probably have a different view than the younger folk. I had BC in 1997 - stage 3 w/ 20 involved lymph nodes in left arm. Prognosis was grim, but took all the advice for the best chance. At 55, I was not ready to give up and to everyone's surprise, NED for 20 years. However, I had prepared to die and that changed everything - got all the paperwork needed to die and not leave children in a mess. Then I could live.  So, in 2017 when cancer came calling again, it was easy to get my ducks in a row as had never not had all legal things done. BUT, now have UPSC, an aggressive cancer and have not been NED for 2 years. So, this time I am more interested in dying well than worrying about fighting. So, have had the "end of life" talk with my 3 wonderful adult children and my primary doctor. Knowing that they are all in agreement on how I want things to be, I am at peace. As far as humanly possible, I am ready as dealth has no fear for me. I have experienced death with parents and sibling, friends, and my wonderful dogs and horses. So, I take one day at a time. I laugh at myself at water aerobics as I wonder why I keep in shape with the sword of Damocles over my head. But, that is LIFE. I believe I have had a good life with more joy than hurt, and so far, have survived damn near everything. Just glad to see that others are not afraid to discuss death which we all know is the circle of life. Peace.

I'm 48 and I'm with you Donna

I'm 48 and I'm with you Donna.  Being diagnosed at 42 changed my whole perception of life.  I really have an appreciation that I wouldn't have had if this hand't happened.  I also have a sometimes bitterness (it's a bit of a pity party at times) as my body is a wreck.  Amazingly I figured out that even with this mess of a body, I do more in a day than most people do in a week.  Who knew.  I just assumed everyone painted, plastered, sawed, drilled and worked on a tedious hobby like gardening.  Between the cancer and the realization that I have amazing skills, my confidence is crazy these days.  Of course life has a way of saying uh uh back down you go so I'm not getting arrogant about it. I have a lot of pain and that's just life now.   I accept death and when I'm in pain even wish for it, it's going to come one day.  Meanwhile while I'm not in pain I am thankful for life.  Even nights like tonight while I'm trapped on my bed because I have the runs and poop into a bag.  Just another challenging night in the life of a 40 something. I get to see my only daughter married and my grandson turned 6.  These are things 5 years ago I thought I wasn't going to have so poop in a bag, not that bad.   I like your spunk!  And I think being 78 and being at peace is awesome.

PhillieG

Have my views on death and dying changed?

No, my views haven’t changed. I’m still dead set against dying! 

I’m in no hurry but barring any accidents I’m fairly certain cancer will take me out. I’ve gotten so many extra years out of life than I was originally told. Our boys were 10 & 4 when I was dx’d, now they’re 24 & 18. Pretty good deal!