Have your views on death and dying changed?

Canadian Sandy

What a nice picture! 

What a nice picture! 

Trubrit

PhillieG said:

Have my views on death and dying changed?

No, my views haven’t changed. I’m still dead set against dying! 

I’m in no hurry but barring any accidents I’m fairly certain cancer will take me out. I’ve gotten so many extra years out of life than I was originally told. Our boys were 10 & 4 when I was dx’d, now they’re 24 & 18. Pretty good deal!

 

 

Love, love, love

the picture.

I'm dead set against dying as well. My goal is now 92, but I'm sure I will re-evaluate when I'm 90.

Keep on going, Phil. 

Tru

PhillieG

Trubrit said:

Love, love, love

the picture.

I'm dead set against dying as well. My goal is now 92, but I'm sure I will re-evaluate when I'm 90.

Keep on going, Phil. 

Tru

Thank you Tru

I just want to live as long as my quality of life is good. I do not want to hang on just because they can do it.

PhillieG

Canadian Sandy said:

What a nice picture! 

What a nice picture! 

Thank you Sandy

Our oldest, far right, is home from grad school in Arizona. We're in NYS. Our other son just graduated high school and will be off to college in the fall. I honestly never thought I'd live to see the day! I'm so thankful to my oncology team.

PhillieG

Sam Harris and Michael Pollen

This topic may/will be controversial for some but hey, those who know me won't be surprised by this. I was listening to a podcast by Sam Harris from May of this year where he and the author Michael Pollen were discussing Michael Pollan's new book How to Change Your Mind. They cover the the resurgence of interest in psychedelics in clinical practice and end-of-life care, the “betterment of well people,” the relationship between thinking and mental suffering, the differences between psychedelics and meditation, the non-duality of consciousness, the brain’s “default mode network,” their experiences with various psychedelics, and other topics. I found it "highly" interesting and had actually expressed interest in participating in a clinical trial done by the Mayo Clinic that dealt with the use of "magic mushrooms" and cancer patients. I was turned down, possibly because I was too enthusiastic(?)...

They discussed was a patient who was terminally ill with zero chance of beating his cancer. He opted for this guided psilocybin trip where a therapist guides you through the experience. One of the purposes of this is to separate the ego from the id and can often give you a clearer understanding of who you are. A very strange thing happened to this man after he finished his experience. Other patients who were in the same hospice care center that he was in heard about him and started to visit his room just so they could be in his presence. The man was so at peace with himself even though he knew his death was inevitable.

I know the topic of psychedelic drugs is touchy based on the overuse by some kids in the 1960's. It was used to treat phycological conditions in the 1930's-40's and even used by the US military as a possible "truth serum" in the 1950's. There were many cases where people didn't know they were on a drug and participating in a test. Frankly, people were used as guinea pigs without their knowledge.

As a child of my generation (born in 1957) I did try LSD and mushrooms a few times. Fortunately, I never had a bad experience and the majority of my trips were enlightening for me. It was what I imagine a religious experience to be like. In fact, many people do or have used mushrooms or peyote as part of their religious/spiritual ceremonies. While I do not condone the use of these drugs, especially without the proper supervision, I do believe that they can serve a very important role in the care and well-being of people at certain times.
There's a link to the podcast in my post.

I hope everyone has an enjoyable weekend.
-phil

Trubrit

Please don't feel hesitant

Every experiece is important.  

Your response to treatment and mine, are almost opposites, and I bet folks want to hear your story over mine, any day. 

My admiration for you and for friend, Danker, is over the top. You are rightly called 'Grace'.

Tru

lizard44

Thanks for the podcast link, Phil

That was interesting. I  was already a teenager (barely, though ) when you were born.  I  somehow missed the drug scene, so never tried  going on any trips. I can see where they may very well have a place in  some medical settings, particularly end-of-life treatment.

I've  always been a little hesitant to post my experience here, because it  differs from the experience of so many here and I feel a little guilty about that.  I never  felt the fear, anger or anxiety many have described upon being diagnosed  stage 4 and I don't recall my husband or children being   traumatized by  the diagnosis, either. That could be because I'm much older than so many here who were diagnosed at an early age, when  their lives were just getting into gear.    My dad died of lung cancer  at age 54  and my mother died of breast cancer at age 62, so in a way I was surprised to have made it to 70 without a  diagnosis and equally suprised  to  have  come though   APR surgery, a liver ablation,  8 rounds of Folfox plus Avastin, 28 rounds of 5-FUchemo-radiation and maintenance chemo of Erbitux and irinotecan every two weeks since  April of 2016;   just had another treatment  day before yesterday.  The cancer and the treatments are part of my life now, but they aren't my whole life and they don't define me.

As Cindy mentioned, I also tend to agree with the "be here now" philosophy from  Kate Bowler's book, although I don't approach it from the same religious perspective Bowler does. I know that the cancer will probably  kill me at some point, but I might also step off a curb one day and  be run over by a bus, although that's not very likely since we have  really lousy bus service here .  I do try to live every day to the fullest, do what I can, when I can,  and know that I can still buy green bananas because  even if I won't be around to   eat them when they ripen, somebody else will.

lizard44/Grace

chistyr1

Death

Hi,

Honestly my dad is going through stage 4 colon cancer and i wonder that everyday. Its so hard to see the most hardworking and genuine person to go through cancer. HE has psychotic episodes when his chemotherapy is fresh. I have never seen my dad act the way that he does on this medication. I'm scared for our future and if he will ever genuinelly get "better". This is so hard on all of us. We are trying our best to be here for him. It's been 2 months and 2 chemo sessions.

-Rafia

Trubrit

chistyr1 said:

Death

Hi,

Honestly my dad is going through stage 4 colon cancer and i wonder that everyday. Its so hard to see the most hardworking and genuine person to go through cancer. HE has psychotic episodes when his chemotherapy is fresh. I have never seen my dad act the way that he does on this medication. I'm scared for our future and if he will ever genuinelly get "better". This is so hard on all of us. We are trying our best to be here for him. It's been 2 months and 2 chemo sessions.

-Rafia

I hope your dad has talked to his Oncologist about the psychotic episodes.  They need to know everything. 

Just being there for your dad, will be a great help. Just don't treat him like he's dying. Oh, I remember it being a fine line between hating that people thought I was dying and being seemingly unconcerned. HA! 

Tru

Tru

Lovekitties

I never wanted to get old

I never wanted to get old and be a burden to others.  I am now 71, is that old?  I guess I can't say it is since my parents are in their 90's and still active.  It has been 8 years since my surgery. I have slowed down, but still do the things I like to do.  During my working days, there was little time for other activities.  I have found that I can enjoy my hobby, which is crocheting, and make a contribution to others.  I give blankets to the premi-ward at the hospital and full size afghans to the women's and children's shelter.  This Easter, my daughter and I did filled crocheted baskets to those children as well.  As long as I can be of some slight benifit to others, I would like to stick around. 

I don't fear dying.  I fear living to just exist. 

May everyone here and their loved ones, have a long and enjoyable life until a peaceful passing.

Marie who loves kitties 

beaumontdave

PhillieG said:

Sam Harris and Michael Pollen

This topic may/will be controversial for some but hey, those who know me won't be surprised by this. I was listening to a podcast by Sam Harris from May of this year where he and the author Michael Pollen were discussing Michael Pollan's new book How to Change Your Mind. They cover the the resurgence of interest in psychedelics in clinical practice and end-of-life care, the “betterment of well people,” the relationship between thinking and mental suffering, the differences between psychedelics and meditation, the non-duality of consciousness, the brain’s “default mode network,” their experiences with various psychedelics, and other topics. I found it "highly" interesting and had actually expressed interest in participating in a clinical trial done by the Mayo Clinic that dealt with the use of "magic mushrooms" and cancer patients. I was turned down, possibly because I was too enthusiastic(?)...

They discussed was a patient who was terminally ill with zero chance of beating his cancer. He opted for this guided psilocybin trip where a therapist guides you through the experience. One of the purposes of this is to separate the ego from the id and can often give you a clearer understanding of who you are. A very strange thing happened to this man after he finished his experience. Other patients who were in the same hospice care center that he was in heard about him and started to visit his room just so they could be in his presence. The man was so at peace with himself even though he knew his death was inevitable.

I know the topic of psychedelic drugs is touchy based on the overuse by some kids in the 1960's. It was used to treat phycological conditions in the 1930's-40's and even used by the US military as a possible "truth serum" in the 1950's. There were many cases where people didn't know they were on a drug and participating in a test. Frankly, people were used as guinea pigs without their knowledge.

As a child of my generation (born in 1957) I did try LSD and mushrooms a few times. Fortunately, I never had a bad experience and the majority of my trips were enlightening for me. It was what I imagine a religious experience to be like. In fact, many people do or have used mushrooms or peyote as part of their religious/spiritual ceremonies. While I do not condone the use of these drugs, especially without the proper supervision, I do believe that they can serve a very important role in the care and well-being of people at certain times.
There's a link to the podcast in my post.

I hope everyone has an enjoyable weekend.
-phil

Perspective is a thing that

Perspective is a thing that we really get channeled into by life's bumps and nudges, and anything that can take you outside your narrow view in a controlled enviroment, can be a good thing. Born in '58, I was the rebel in my family, which means I tried most everything the 70's had to offer, and enjoyed most of it, with only a couple exceptions. I left that all behind until the wife and I were both diagnosed, then with a medical marijuana script, tried various levels of THC edibles, extracts, and lotions. Cindy seemed to get relief through some of the stuff, but I couldn't get comfortable with any level of THC product, and CBD stuff didn't really alieve pain in a significant way. Mushrooms were always a gentle brightening experience, it would be nice if they could establish whether it or the other psycho-active drugs had value in helping those with terminal diagnoses and the anxiety and depression that come along with it. Another drug[originally an anesthetic] is being looked at too, Ketamine which is a party drug for a certain set, is said to be getting a serious level study for it's ability to alleviate depression. I hope they find worth in some of these old compounds that can help. Like you, I don't recommend anyone follow the path I took, uncontrolled doses of corrupted, unsupervised lab work, stepped on with other unknown junk, and taken at an unknown dose, is a risky, foolish game. But there was something potentionally life-altering in some of that stuff, and I mean that in a good way. If they could isolate, control, and test some of what I remember feeling as effects, they'd maybe have a whole different approach to dealing with those suffering the most dire, grim circumstances and the mindsets that most inevitably adopt..........................................................................................Dave

steveja

JanJan63 - I certainly haven

JanJan63 - I certainly haven't been through as much a you, but like all here I suffered the shock of a cancer diagnosis.  I have some markers that are trending poorly afte a year, and the CT that showed possible lung mets (which vanished in 3months - major whoopsie), was a juicy slice of hell.  Yes, it's changed my attitude about death 

- I realize I can't ignore my own mortality any longer.  If it wasn't cancer it would be something else.  Ignoring personal mortality is over; it must be faced squarely.

- We are all leaving here 'toes up.  That's certain   At most we have a little say about how and when.  Those difficult choices MUST be evaluated in terns of quality of life(QoL) and that a matter of personal values.  I hope to have the courage to exit the stage with a little dignity rather than clinging hard to some very bitter end.  The 'medical arts' aren't making this any easier.

 I was recently reading that in the late 1700s lifespan in the UK was <50yo. Ppl mst have faced mortality much earlier and experienced others death more often and intimately then.

Your decision about your dog is a tough one in every sense.  It's wise to recognize that you would only be extending your pet's life for your sake, and not the animal's, and courageous to act on this basis.  I havent been tested in that way yet.  Schnauzer-girl promises not to pull my plug so long as I can toss a frisbee ;^) .