Diet to bring down PSA

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  • Scambuster
    Scambuster Member Posts: 973
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    steckley said:

    Consumer actions
    Hey mrsjpd,

    Over the years our representatives have not had a very good record of adressing consumer problems; and they (the representatives) will most likely address an issue if consumers file suits that threaten the earnings of the companies that the representatives represent (lot of "represent" in that sentence!). I feel that consumer advocate groups that bring suits are more likely to effect change than are well intentioned representatives.

    Also, passing new laws and developing new regulations will help only if there is funding to enforce the regulations. Currently funding to FDA, EPA, etc. is not adequate to enforce the existing plethora of regualtions. For several sets of regulations, enforcement has been passed down to the states, and many states are short of funds.

    As you pointed out being a "highly educated consumer" is a persons best defence when buying food or addressing health issues. Someone will always be willing to sell us anything we want to buy ... even if it kills us.

    Food Labeling -RED ORANGE GREEN
    The FDA is a long way off fixing the bad food pushers out there. It is very hard to 'scientifically prove' the exact negative impact on health at a cellular level hence the long wait we had till tobacco was finally 'scientifically proven' to be bad for us. Food is the same and on the other side, certain health supplements, herbs and foods that are in all likely hood very good for us or can even cure us, it is very hard (unless you spend many millions) to 'scientifically prove why they are good.

    Jumping sideway now, I gather some states in the US and other countries have lobby groups pushing for the 'Traffic Light' food labeling to introduce and made mandatory. In brief junk foods high in free sugars, additives, fats etc are labeled with a red tag ( Sodas, cakes, sugar cereals, pop tarts, bacon, packet mix rubbish and condiments)

    Foods that are not really that bad and also have some good like cereals, white rice, white breads, etc are given an orange tag and of course fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, pulses, whole-grains and whole-grain products (Brown, red and black rices), are all given the Green tag.

    There would some fighting on where lean red meats and other animal product would land but you get the drift (fighting from the meat /poultry/ dairy industries' lobby groups).

    As for my 5 cents worth, as a cancer survivor with the intention or remaining one, I shop in my imaginary Green zone only (we haven't got the labeling system where I live). Anyhow, I do hope this does get legislated and soon. It would be an easier first step to raise awareness especially when shopping aisles in supermarkets are sectioned into these 3 distinct areas.

    I can see it now..."You are now entering the RED ZONE..(warning lights flashing) ". How I wish.

    Best to all Scam

    PS Bronx - remember that Doctors do not study diet or nutrition hence their reluctance to commit on such issues. If you want a Doctor to give you nutritional advice, find one whose kid has cancer or one that has cancer himself. As for "Once you got it well there nothing you can do.." comment, I say complete bollocks ! Change Doctor, the guy is not plugged in. There are thousands of documented cases of how diet can affect cancer and recovery. There is also emerging studies in Anti-angiogenesis from diet, reduction in Metastasis and complete cures, many are not yet 'scientifically proven' because of the reasons mentioned above. Silymarin is a good example. It promotes liver cell renewal and improves outcomes from liver patients but they cannot nail down why but the figures are there, they just can't explain them yet. There is a lot of hope Bronx so find the information that will help you and get to it.
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,692 Member
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    bdhilton said:

    VGama
    Is the glass half full or half empty? Attitude has a whole lot to do with not only survival but living a healthy and productive life in general. Did you ever think how aggressive your PCa would have been without these life time diets of yours?

    Since you do not mention how your heat is doing I would assume great because of your diets…Cancer or heart related problems get most folks in the end…We all die but I choose to die as healthy as I can be…and guys get PCa in Asia and the Mediterranean countries that live on these diets too...just not in the same numbers...Peace

    Hilton
    Hilton
    In Portugal, by tradition, a dinner is only complete with a bottle of wine on the table. You would love our traditions too.
    Your comment recalls me ten years ago (May 2000), when I was told that I had prostate cancer. I enter into denial “….What, me, why, I am so healthy and have no symptoms…..”. I did not fit the typical guy described by many in this forum, with all that fatty diet healthy problems. I was physically ok and had no healthy pointers out of the brackets (maybe because of all that olive oil in my veins).
    At 50 years old, PSA was 22.4, Gs 2+3=5. RP in Aug2000, SRT in Nov2006 and ADT in Nov2010. Quality of life has been my principal aim in this long fight. For me, “Abstinence” is the worse attitude someone could do once marked with cancer. Respect the bandit and learn about it but don’t make it as a friend.

    In my country I made part of the 4,000 new PCa cases annually. We are only 10 million which makes it nearly to a half of your USA number (218,000), but we have three times more death (45%) than you (15%). The higher mortality may be due to lack of earlier prevention programs, therefore advanced cases is the norm at diagnosis.

    Hope your wish come true; healthier and over the 100th mark.
    VGama
  • bdhilton
    bdhilton Member Posts: 865 Member
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    Hilton
    Hilton
    In Portugal, by tradition, a dinner is only complete with a bottle of wine on the table. You would love our traditions too.
    Your comment recalls me ten years ago (May 2000), when I was told that I had prostate cancer. I enter into denial “….What, me, why, I am so healthy and have no symptoms…..”. I did not fit the typical guy described by many in this forum, with all that fatty diet healthy problems. I was physically ok and had no healthy pointers out of the brackets (maybe because of all that olive oil in my veins).
    At 50 years old, PSA was 22.4, Gs 2+3=5. RP in Aug2000, SRT in Nov2006 and ADT in Nov2010. Quality of life has been my principal aim in this long fight. For me, “Abstinence” is the worse attitude someone could do once marked with cancer. Respect the bandit and learn about it but don’t make it as a friend.

    In my country I made part of the 4,000 new PCa cases annually. We are only 10 million which makes it nearly to a half of your USA number (218,000), but we have three times more death (45%) than you (15%). The higher mortality may be due to lack of earlier prevention programs, therefore advanced cases is the norm at diagnosis.

    Hope your wish come true; healthier and over the 100th mark.
    VGama

    Thanks VGama and the best to
    Thanks VGama and the best to your journey
  • mrspjd
    mrspjd Member Posts: 694 Member
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    Food Labeling -RED ORANGE GREEN
    The FDA is a long way off fixing the bad food pushers out there. It is very hard to 'scientifically prove' the exact negative impact on health at a cellular level hence the long wait we had till tobacco was finally 'scientifically proven' to be bad for us. Food is the same and on the other side, certain health supplements, herbs and foods that are in all likely hood very good for us or can even cure us, it is very hard (unless you spend many millions) to 'scientifically prove why they are good.

    Jumping sideway now, I gather some states in the US and other countries have lobby groups pushing for the 'Traffic Light' food labeling to introduce and made mandatory. In brief junk foods high in free sugars, additives, fats etc are labeled with a red tag ( Sodas, cakes, sugar cereals, pop tarts, bacon, packet mix rubbish and condiments)

    Foods that are not really that bad and also have some good like cereals, white rice, white breads, etc are given an orange tag and of course fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, pulses, whole-grains and whole-grain products (Brown, red and black rices), are all given the Green tag.

    There would some fighting on where lean red meats and other animal product would land but you get the drift (fighting from the meat /poultry/ dairy industries' lobby groups).

    As for my 5 cents worth, as a cancer survivor with the intention or remaining one, I shop in my imaginary Green zone only (we haven't got the labeling system where I live). Anyhow, I do hope this does get legislated and soon. It would be an easier first step to raise awareness especially when shopping aisles in supermarkets are sectioned into these 3 distinct areas.

    I can see it now..."You are now entering the RED ZONE..(warning lights flashing) ". How I wish.

    Best to all Scam

    PS Bronx - remember that Doctors do not study diet or nutrition hence their reluctance to commit on such issues. If you want a Doctor to give you nutritional advice, find one whose kid has cancer or one that has cancer himself. As for "Once you got it well there nothing you can do.." comment, I say complete bollocks ! Change Doctor, the guy is not plugged in. There are thousands of documented cases of how diet can affect cancer and recovery. There is also emerging studies in Anti-angiogenesis from diet, reduction in Metastasis and complete cures, many are not yet 'scientifically proven' because of the reasons mentioned above. Silymarin is a good example. It promotes liver cell renewal and improves outcomes from liver patients but they cannot nail down why but the figures are there, they just can't explain them yet. There is a lot of hope Bronx so find the information that will help you and get to it.

    angiogenesis & food & cancer
    Several months ago in another thread, I posted a link to an extremely interesting & facinating thought provoking (audio/visual) presentation on the subject of the possible relationships between cancer & angiogenesis, anti-angiogenesis, cell death, & food. The presentation was made by Dr. Li at the Feb 2010 TED conference--a conference of the best and brightest cutting edge leaders in their field of expertise, such as medical, scientific, etc. With the interest in angiogenesis & cancer in another post, thought the link might be worthy of a second post:

    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/william_li.html

    This is truly, literally & figuratively, "food for thought!"
  • hopeful111
    hopeful111 Member Posts: 13
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    G.L.M_61 said:

    Dairy
    Sounds good as it has been a while for me on this discussion board. I am going nuts with this non dairy diet however it seems to work GREAT. I was wondering if you ever eat any eggs or bread as that is dairy for sure, correct? Thank you.

    Dairy - is a little yogurt ok ?
    I'm following this thread with interest - besides the pca I have, gs7, a dexa
    showed osteoporosis, and am trying to increase calcium and vit d,
    and hopefully put off using the bone rx like fosamax or zometa;
    however will be starting adt/lupron soon which could have further
    negative impact on bones and muscles.

    in any case, wanted to ask folks if a little dairy like 12 oz full fat
    yogurt once a da would be ok in context of this thread and stopping all dairy.

    I am underweight and trying to add more protein, but have ibs and its tough to find non dairy foods high in protein that don't exacerbate it. I tried 1 oz salmon
    for 5 days and it did not agree - had to stop.
    (and makes me hesitant to start the fish oil capsules and its frustating since really want to get the benefits of that)

    So went back to yogurt I had stopped just to get some protein - its only
    12 g in the 12 oz, but better than nothing.

    Now slowly trying soy milk - 2 8oz glasses a day, barely making it digestion wise with that, but keeping at it.

    But really need to use soy protein powder and/or tofu which has more protein in reasonable amts I need., and thats the next step of the experiment.

    If experiment is ok, I could drop the yogurt and take calcium supplements and
    calcium in rice and soy milk toget the calcium instead.

    questions

    1. is even the 12 oz of yogurt taken too much in the context of pca
    and this thread ?

    2. would using the non fat yogurt help instead - it has more protein somehow -- or is it that dairy is dairy, regardless of fat content ?


    Thanks for feedback or opinions
  • Kongo
    Kongo Member Posts: 1,166 Member
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    Dairy - is a little yogurt ok ?
    I'm following this thread with interest - besides the pca I have, gs7, a dexa
    showed osteoporosis, and am trying to increase calcium and vit d,
    and hopefully put off using the bone rx like fosamax or zometa;
    however will be starting adt/lupron soon which could have further
    negative impact on bones and muscles.

    in any case, wanted to ask folks if a little dairy like 12 oz full fat
    yogurt once a da would be ok in context of this thread and stopping all dairy.

    I am underweight and trying to add more protein, but have ibs and its tough to find non dairy foods high in protein that don't exacerbate it. I tried 1 oz salmon
    for 5 days and it did not agree - had to stop.
    (and makes me hesitant to start the fish oil capsules and its frustating since really want to get the benefits of that)

    So went back to yogurt I had stopped just to get some protein - its only
    12 g in the 12 oz, but better than nothing.

    Now slowly trying soy milk - 2 8oz glasses a day, barely making it digestion wise with that, but keeping at it.

    But really need to use soy protein powder and/or tofu which has more protein in reasonable amts I need., and thats the next step of the experiment.

    If experiment is ok, I could drop the yogurt and take calcium supplements and
    calcium in rice and soy milk toget the calcium instead.

    questions

    1. is even the 12 oz of yogurt taken too much in the context of pca
    and this thread ?

    2. would using the non fat yogurt help instead - it has more protein somehow -- or is it that dairy is dairy, regardless of fat content ?


    Thanks for feedback or opinions

    Yogurt
    hopeful,

    Yogurt, fat or unfit, has the same insulin growth factors that other dairy products have. All dairy comes from the same place...the mammary glands of mammals. While some may disagree, my feelings are that you have to eliminate dairy. Humans have no biological need for dairy after they are weaned and there are plenty of sources of protien other than from dairy products.

    Suggest that you check with your local health food stores or markets and see if there are any soy-based yogurts in your area.

    I strongly urge you to do your own research on this and some will say cutting back on dairy is good but I would suggest you read Dr. Jane Plant's books on dairy for a great perspective. The dairy that she was eating as part of her doctor directed diet for her breast cancer was killing her. With only months to live she eliminated all dairy and her trumors shrank and disappeared in a matter of weeks. While everyone is affected differently, here account of dairy and how it works in the body was compelling to me. Her first book chronicled her own journey with breast cancer (a sister disease to prostate cancer) and is titled "Your Life in Your Hands." She has also written a companion bood for prostate cancer called "Prostate Cancer." Both books available at Amazon.

    Good luck to you.

    K
  • Swingshiftworker
    Swingshiftworker Member Posts: 1,017 Member
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    Kongo said:

    Yogurt
    hopeful,

    Yogurt, fat or unfit, has the same insulin growth factors that other dairy products have. All dairy comes from the same place...the mammary glands of mammals. While some may disagree, my feelings are that you have to eliminate dairy. Humans have no biological need for dairy after they are weaned and there are plenty of sources of protien other than from dairy products.

    Suggest that you check with your local health food stores or markets and see if there are any soy-based yogurts in your area.

    I strongly urge you to do your own research on this and some will say cutting back on dairy is good but I would suggest you read Dr. Jane Plant's books on dairy for a great perspective. The dairy that she was eating as part of her doctor directed diet for her breast cancer was killing her. With only months to live she eliminated all dairy and her trumors shrank and disappeared in a matter of weeks. While everyone is affected differently, here account of dairy and how it works in the body was compelling to me. Her first book chronicled her own journey with breast cancer (a sister disease to prostate cancer) and is titled "Your Life in Your Hands." She has also written a companion bood for prostate cancer called "Prostate Cancer." Both books available at Amazon.

    Good luck to you.

    K

    Doesn't Apparently Work For Me
    FWIW, I eat very little dairy (no whole milk, only soy milk and very little yogurt or cheese) and can go weeks without eating any dairy products at all but my PSA levels were and still are higher than they should be. Go figure . .

    So, low or no dairy intake doesn't apparently work for me but I'll still keep my dairy intake down because I'm not compelled to eat dairy products much anyway.
  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,692 Member
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    Doesn't Apparently Work For Me
    FWIW, I eat very little dairy (no whole milk, only soy milk and very little yogurt or cheese) and can go weeks without eating any dairy products at all but my PSA levels were and still are higher than they should be. Go figure . .

    So, low or no dairy intake doesn't apparently work for me but I'll still keep my dairy intake down because I'm not compelled to eat dairy products much anyway.

    Hopefull; Your osteoporosis may be harmful
    Hopefull
    Your osteoporosis may become more harmful than your prostate cancer once hormonal shots start. Surely you have to be careful with your calcium income (lack of) and bone loss.
    I would not give up with the yogurt and would take calcium supplements together with a bisphosphonate, until recovery from osteoporosis. Stop dairy has no meaning unless you are in an earlier status, which seems not to be the case.
    Here is a list of produces high in calcium which you may incorporate in your diet.
    http://www.weightlossforall.com/foods-rich-calcium.htm

    Take care.
    VGama
  • hopeful111
    hopeful111 Member Posts: 13
    Options

    Hopefull; Your osteoporosis may be harmful
    Hopefull
    Your osteoporosis may become more harmful than your prostate cancer once hormonal shots start. Surely you have to be careful with your calcium income (lack of) and bone loss.
    I would not give up with the yogurt and would take calcium supplements together with a bisphosphonate, until recovery from osteoporosis. Stop dairy has no meaning unless you are in an earlier status, which seems not to be the case.
    Here is a list of produces high in calcium which you may incorporate in your diet.
    http://www.weightlossforall.com/foods-rich-calcium.htm

    Take care.
    VGama

    osteoporosis and calcium and ADT/Lupron
    Thanks for the replies to my question about should I cut
    out all dairy, even though have osteoporosis and will be starting
    lupron soon.

    I will try to look into soy yogurt or switch to just something
    that can give the probiotics, once I can handle soy enough stomach
    and ibs wise to give up the yogurt - I realize now its a tradeoff
    as to needing protein and not getting it easily due to ibs, vs
    needing to stop dairy - and given that the ADT will have even more
    effects on bone and muscle.

    As to the biphosphonates, am a bit frightened of them as to possible
    side effects related to jaw and also restrictions on having dental work done during time taking them, since have ongoing dental and gum problems.

    Question - as to calcium intake - hasn't too much of that been found to not be good for PCA ? But I realize I need it for building bones due to osteoporosis and effects of ADT.

    Am getting about 1200mg of non dairy calcium from rice and soy milk,
    with about 200 from vitamin. (and 400 mg from the yogurt)

    It was suggested also to take 1200 supplemental calcium, besides dietary.

    Is that too much in total as to promoting PCA vs the need for it more due to the osteoporosis ?
    (I do try to spread it out over the day)

    Thanks again.
  • gwc
    gwc Member Posts: 8
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    Diet i think definetly helps psa go down but eating foods
    I think diet is very important. I have 3 cancers But have been eating ant fungal foods and less carbs that feed yeast and all my numbers are improving. My psa was 5.5 now year and half later 1.9 has gone down every psa reading. Dairiy of course down not drinking milk ect.. garlic not cooked or loses its anti fungal properties ,curry ,cinnamon, green tea. No keg beer More distilled the better. Lots of veggies and lean meats. Carbs just feed cancer so need to keep down.diet must be very important with cancer. If you look into studies in the journal of medicine you will see how many cancer patients with different cancers are being treated with anti fungals. I have 3 cancers why are they all being treated with antifungals that kill yeast?? Same meds for all of them. Nystain for example and now they have found garlic fresh squeezed is a stronger antifunal than Nystain. Which kills cancer cells. Diet is very important.
  • FreddyJoe
    FreddyJoe Member Posts: 45 Member
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    mrspjd said:

    breast cancer and prostate cancer both hormone sensitive cancers
    Breast cancer and prostate cancer are both hormone sensitive cancers. A little known fact is that men can be carriers of the brca 1 and 2 genes, common in breast cancer. The only way to know if a man is a carrier of the brca gene is through genetic testing with follow-up genetic counseling. What this means is that if there is a history of prostate cancer in a man's family, not only are his sons at a higher risk of PCa, but if he is a carrier of the brca gene, then his daughters may be at higher risk of breast cancer.

    Cancer and Genetics
    There does seem to be a very strong link to cancer, especially prostate cancer if other family members had it. My mothers sister had 4 male children, all 4 had prostate cancer and were also diabetic, both of my parents died of cancer, and I knew I was bound to get it, and I did.
  • FreddyJoe
    FreddyJoe Member Posts: 45 Member
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    bdhilton said:

    omega 3 organics eggs
    I take one step further and just eat the whites....

    Dairy & Eggs
    I was put on a low cholesterol diet and dairy and eggs are both out. The whites seem to be OK, but the yolk, maybe one or two a week. I was watching Dr Oz one day and he was talking about no white food, there were 3 that we can eat he says, egg whites were one, sugar and white bread definately not.