The real question should be is anyone still having oral sex???
1. I dink less; 1-2 beers on a Friday or Saturday! I don't BINGE like I use too!!
2. I try to eat more fruits and vegetables!
3. I take a black mans approach now and don't give oral sex!! (Why do you think HPV 16 cancer is rare in black men?? (I'm just going by what my African American military buddies have told me; sorry to stereotype!)
4. Reading the china study now. Switching to soy milk and more will follow but diet is tough change of life!!!
5. trying to get 9-10 hrs of sleep a day!!
6. Trying not to get stressed at work; but work is work!!
Bottom line I'm trying to keep my immune system healthy. The year before I was severely depressed from a breakup with fiance, binge drinking, had rebound sex, etc. Was wherein my body down. If most people can fight of HPV then we should be able too; just need to keep the immune system up. 1-2 beers shouldn't hurt..if it does then I'm gonna have fun hell I'm only 39 for Christ sake!!
Comments
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Practice safe sex, oral or
Practice safe sex, oral or otherwise.0 -
Welcome back Charles
Hey Charles, good to hear from you, I think. LOL Well, you have me counting back now, but I don't think I've had oral sex with over five people--you do mean total don't you? HPV is a new boogyman. Like you said, the jury and data are still out there. And when facts and figures are slim, we fall back on fat puritanical rules. Wasn't long ago, even admitting you were Jewish/homosexual/colored/etc., OR had cancer would cast a taint on your character. I mean, what if one of my disgusting partners had already had disgusting sex with 350 disgusting people before me, what would be my chances then? I'll bet there are people out there with HPV that have never had oral sex, over 350. So, I'd venture that "clean" living is no guarantee. Nonetheless, virues are real, so active types need to be made aware.
best, Hal0 -
WAHOO Charles, LOL....
Well that's a fine Howdy Doodee....LOL.
Me personally Charles, I agree with a lot you say. Not sure on the black man analogy (I think they just don't admit it).... But on that same note, there does seem to be statistics that lesbian women tend to have a higher rate of HPV derived H&N cancer...at least I've read that before in similar internet research as you have done.
I'm not a medical professional, but I do also believe as you that at least for me...the HPV was the cause of my cancer, not having a few beers now and then.
I also had a pretty stressful year just prior to becoming diagnosed. If the main cause of my cancer was a result of past sexual behavior, it had to be from someone over 20 years prior as I have been with only one person during that time, and she does not have any indicators of having HPV on her routine tests. So that would lead me to believe it would have lain dormant for that many years minimum within my body, or it was dervived in a different and non-sexual manner.
There's still a lot of studying going on, and I don't think that it has 100% been determined just how many modes of transference/contraction there are.
As you and being in the Marines or service in general. I've had my fairshare of very brief relationships/encounters as well, but over 25 - 30 years ago.
As you mentioned and I believe, the cells are more than likely in all of us and society in general. It's something else that triggers or allows them to become active.
But as Dawn says, in this day and age, being in the dating or new relationship scene would be scary as hell....practice safe sex. There's a lot more than HPV out there these days.
Best, and Happy Hoildays,
John0 -
What Sex are you sure ???Skiffin16 said:WAHOO Charles, LOL....
Well that's a fine Howdy Doodee....LOL.
Me personally Charles, I agree with a lot you say. Not sure on the black man analogy (I think they just don't admit it).... But on that same note, there does seem to be statistics that lesbian women tend to have a higher rate of HPV derived H&N cancer...at least I've read that before in similar internet research as you have done.
I'm not a medical professional, but I do also believe as you that at least for me...the HPV was the cause of my cancer, not having a few beers now and then.
I also had a pretty stressful year just prior to becoming diagnosed. If the main cause of my cancer was a result of past sexual behavior, it had to be from someone over 20 years prior as I have been with only one person during that time, and she does not have any indicators of having HPV on her routine tests. So that would lead me to believe it would have lain dormant for that many years minimum within my body, or it was dervived in a different and non-sexual manner.
There's still a lot of studying going on, and I don't think that it has 100% been determined just how many modes of transference/contraction there are.
As you and being in the Marines or service in general. I've had my fairshare of very brief relationships/encounters as well, but over 25 - 30 years ago.
As you mentioned and I believe, the cells are more than likely in all of us and society in general. It's something else that triggers or allows them to become active.
But as Dawn says, in this day and age, being in the dating or new relationship scene would be scary as hell....practice safe sex. There's a lot more than HPV out there these days.
Best, and Happy Hoildays,
John
You mean people still do that stuff, what radiation did not take away twice chemo got. Well shut my mouth, no need to can’t open it more then ½ inch, darn the bad luck.
How do you tell your children; sex can give you cancer, these days drinking water can give you cancer…
Got to agree with Sweet, it you are going to do it you are going to do it, just practice doing it safely.0 -
AgreeHondo said:What Sex are you sure ???
You mean people still do that stuff, what radiation did not take away twice chemo got. Well shut my mouth, no need to can’t open it more then ½ inch, darn the bad luck.
How do you tell your children; sex can give you cancer, these days drinking water can give you cancer…
Got to agree with Sweet, it you are going to do it you are going to do it, just practice doing it safely.
How can you even really have safe sex these days if you are single (other than not having sex)....
I mean you might be with someone that hasn't had any sexual partners for over 20 years, showing no signs or symptoms of having HPV. Then 20 years down the road, you are diagnosed with H&N cancer HPV derived from a relationship that ultimately happened 40 years ago from someone else...dang, that's just too complicated to even think about....
JG0 -
I also read in my FASkiffin16 said:WAHOO Charles, LOL....
Well that's a fine Howdy Doodee....LOL.
Me personally Charles, I agree with a lot you say. Not sure on the black man analogy (I think they just don't admit it).... But on that same note, there does seem to be statistics that lesbian women tend to have a higher rate of HPV derived H&N cancer...at least I've read that before in similar internet research as you have done.
I'm not a medical professional, but I do also believe as you that at least for me...the HPV was the cause of my cancer, not having a few beers now and then.
I also had a pretty stressful year just prior to becoming diagnosed. If the main cause of my cancer was a result of past sexual behavior, it had to be from someone over 20 years prior as I have been with only one person during that time, and she does not have any indicators of having HPV on her routine tests. So that would lead me to believe it would have lain dormant for that many years minimum within my body, or it was dervived in a different and non-sexual manner.
There's still a lot of studying going on, and I don't think that it has 100% been determined just how many modes of transference/contraction there are.
As you and being in the Marines or service in general. I've had my fairshare of very brief relationships/encounters as well, but over 25 - 30 years ago.
As you mentioned and I believe, the cells are more than likely in all of us and society in general. It's something else that triggers or allows them to become active.
But as Dawn says, in this day and age, being in the dating or new relationship scene would be scary as hell....practice safe sex. There's a lot more than HPV out there these days.
Best, and Happy Hoildays,
John
I also read in my FA Families newsletter that although HPV is usually transmitted through sexual contact, there is evidence that HPV is found in children. In a US study, HPV was detected in 6% of healthy children. HPV was found in the mouths of 42% of healthy children in a Finnish study and 52% of prepubertal children in a UK based study.
Perhaps it's also transmitted in others ways besides sexual contact.0 -
This comment has been removed by the Moderatorsweetblood22 said:I also read in my FA
I also read in my FA Families newsletter that although HPV is usually transmitted through sexual contact, there is evidence that HPV is found in children. In a US study, HPV was detected in 6% of healthy children. HPV was found in the mouths of 42% of healthy children in a Finnish study and 52% of prepubertal children in a UK based study.
Perhaps it's also transmitted in others ways besides sexual contact.0 -
Put this gun to your headunknown said:This comment has been removed by the Moderator
Cmon Charles, you're only 39, do you want to see 40? Lets look at the risk factors...oral sex,smoking,and drinking. You have already justified yourself into ignoring two of them. Why do black men have less oral cancer?? Because they don't go to the doctor as often as you and I. The life expectancy of a young black man in America in his twenties goes up dramatically after age 29. Fact is the chances of dying a violent death is much greater for them than oral cancer. Going to the grocery store can kill you in some American cities, but I digress. Back to the gun. Go ahead and pull the trigger, your chances are better with the gun. Chances of oral cancer comming back---22% Now ignore two of the biggest risk factors and my guess is you just put yourself over 50%. The gun is only 1 out of 6. Do this for me. Stand in front of the mirror and look inside your mouth. I mean really look with a flashlight. See that little sore spot and that little abrasion over on the other side. If you have had radiation you have little open gateways in your mouth because the slightest irritation from any source is causing daily damage to the mouth lining. Now where are you going to put that mouth?0 -
Transmission Modessweetblood22 said:I also read in my FA
I also read in my FA Families newsletter that although HPV is usually transmitted through sexual contact, there is evidence that HPV is found in children. In a US study, HPV was detected in 6% of healthy children. HPV was found in the mouths of 42% of healthy children in a Finnish study and 52% of prepubertal children in a UK based study.
Perhaps it's also transmitted in others ways besides sexual contact.
You are right on Dawn...
Like I said, it's all very new, and potentially very dangerous to society. I'm glad that it's becoming more studied, the medical community is trying to catch up I believe.
From everything that I have read, there is absolutely no positive and confirmed evidense HPV is transmitted 100% sexually. It's like other types of disease or viruses. You hear or read anything from sexual transmission to catching it from public bathrooms....
As for prevention via vaccinations or injections, Guardasil is all that I've heard of, and that's primarily alwasy referring to cervical cancer in younger females. Any reference you read on that subject concerning younger males always relates to genital warts...not sure why that is when there is so many with HPV H&N cancer....
Not to mention that it can lay dormant within our bodies for decades apparently. Sometimes never becoming active, or flushed out and re-entering again...I dunno.
JG0 -
What are talking about??ratface said:Put this gun to your head
Cmon Charles, you're only 39, do you want to see 40? Lets look at the risk factors...oral sex,smoking,and drinking. You have already justified yourself into ignoring two of them. Why do black men have less oral cancer?? Because they don't go to the doctor as often as you and I. The life expectancy of a young black man in America in his twenties goes up dramatically after age 29. Fact is the chances of dying a violent death is much greater for them than oral cancer. Going to the grocery store can kill you in some American cities, but I digress. Back to the gun. Go ahead and pull the trigger, your chances are better with the gun. Chances of oral cancer comming back---22% Now ignore two of the biggest risk factors and my guess is you just put yourself over 50%. The gun is only 1 out of 6. Do this for me. Stand in front of the mirror and look inside your mouth. I mean really look with a flashlight. See that little sore spot and that little abrasion over on the other side. If you have had radiation you have little open gateways in your mouth because the slightest irritation from any source is causing daily damage to the mouth lining. Now where are you going to put that mouth?
I'm not ignoring anything. I don't smoke and I said I am refraining from oral sex. As far as having 1-2 beers once in a while I don't see the harm!!!
I guess that's why I don't right much; sometimes these things get blown out of proportion; also I had stayed away from the board for a while and feeling pretty good; but today after looking at the board and participating it just gets too depressing.
We are all in the same boat and it sucks! I was just trying to say I'm more worried about a HPV re-accurence than drinking. As a nurse and a cancer patient I know we aren't going to live forever; but if I only have 1,5,10, or 20years, etc. I want to live life; I don't want to sit home worrying about everything I do or don't put in my mouth. Happy Holidays! God Bless!0 -
I was trying to get you angry becauseSkiffin16 said:Transmission Modes
You are right on Dawn...
Like I said, it's all very new, and potentially very dangerous to society. I'm glad that it's becoming more studied, the medical community is trying to catch up I believe.
From everything that I have read, there is absolutely no positive and confirmed evidense HPV is transmitted 100% sexually. It's like other types of disease or viruses. You hear or read anything from sexual transmission to catching it from public bathrooms....
As for prevention via vaccinations or injections, Guardasil is all that I've heard of, and that's primarily alwasy referring to cervical cancer in younger females. Any reference you read on that subject concerning younger males always relates to genital warts...not sure why that is when there is so many with HPV H&N cancer....
Not to mention that it can lay dormant within our bodies for decades apparently. Sometimes never becoming active, or flushed out and re-entering again...I dunno.
JG
You've had oral cancer. There is no enjoying life the way it used to be. Cancer changes every aspect of your life. You're thinking about it now because you're an intelligent person who dosen't want to die young. Please don't mistake me for a puritan as I'm far from it. I'm blunt about things, that's just who I am. You knew the answer before you asked the question, oral sex puts you at risk. I don't think a couple of beers is a big deal but it does increase risks. Your doctor told you oral sex is not a good idea. I have no doubt that my cancer is related to my past behavior. I'm responsible for that. I wish you didn't have to go thru this at 39. I wish I didn't. This cancer has an awful recurrence rate and it scares the hell out of us. I live every day in terror that this cancer is comming back. If I can diminish that terror by some behavior in my control it helps with my mental health. Why not take every possible precaution to keep it away. All I'm saying is that you can make things a little better for yourself. Control what you can. We all have to step away from here once in a while and that's normal but I'm glad your back for the moment.0 -
It's All Good DiscussionIrishgypsie said:What are talking about??
I'm not ignoring anything. I don't smoke and I said I am refraining from oral sex. As far as having 1-2 beers once in a while I don't see the harm!!!
I guess that's why I don't right much; sometimes these things get blown out of proportion; also I had stayed away from the board for a while and feeling pretty good; but today after looking at the board and participating it just gets too depressing.
We are all in the same boat and it sucks! I was just trying to say I'm more worried about a HPV re-accurence than drinking. As a nurse and a cancer patient I know we aren't going to live forever; but if I only have 1,5,10, or 20years, etc. I want to live life; I don't want to sit home worrying about everything I do or don't put in my mouth. Happy Holidays! God Bless!
Charles, it's all good discussion...you and everyone on here have their own personal feelings and thoughts. Sometimes we all get a little defensive and tend to overstate our feelings and thoughts.
I don't think anyone really means to step on anyone elses toes. In realitity, I think we all really want each other to survive. We just are so passionate about it, that sometimes we come across a little over bearing. I know that I do it at times, and when I read comments of others, it tends to PO me a little also. I guess that's just human nature.
The one thing that I do know..we are all in this together. It doesn't matter on how or why, we all have been infected and affected in some way. We are all here because we want to be, and we want to share and help others.
We want you and everyone of us to be here longer. To make the journey more tolerable and quality as best we can. It's all about giving, and giving back...we all do that just by participating.
Don't take anything to the point that you feel you can't express yourself....that's what we are all about.
Best to all, and Happy Holidays,
John0 -
Oral Sex
Please tell me you left a 0 off that 5. 50+right?0 -
What can give you Cancer!
When we look at all the things in our world today that can give us cancer it is a wonder any of us are alive. There are things that we can do to prevent from getting this stuff and there are things we have no control over like the environment, the very air we breathe to keep us alive can also kill us. I grew up on an Island where the people lived to be over 100 years old, now when I go back it is hard to find anyone there over 75, what changed I always ask myself. Is it the food, is it the environment, is it the life style they live (Sex), maybe it is a plot by the government to kill everyone off, we may never know.
There is help in preventing some types of HPV if you know you have it.
PAP TESTS
A Pap test doesn’t diagnose HPV. But it can look for abnormal cells (that are caused by HPV)
GARDASIL HELPS GUARD 9 TO 26-YEAR-OLD MALES AND FEMALES AGAINST CERTAIN DISEASES Vaccination with GARDASIL is another choice worth making. GARDASIL is the only HPV vaccine that helps protect against 4 types of HPV. In girls and young women ages 9 to 26, GARDASIL helps protect against 2 types of HPV that cause about 75% of cervical cancer cases, and 2 more types that cause 90% of genital warts cases. In boys and young men ages 9 to 26, GARDASIL helps protect against 90% of genital warts cases.
http://www.gardasil.com/hpv/pap-test/index.html0 -
Oral sex?
They took enough of my tongue that I can only HUM oral sex! So no worries for me
(I was going to ask for the Gene Simmons transplant, but there's no telling where that thing's been!)
Take care,
Joe0 -
Safer to Receive Than To Give?soccerfreaks said:Oral sex?
They took enough of my tongue that I can only HUM oral sex! So no worries for me (I was going to ask for the Gene Simmons transplant, but there's no telling where that thing's been!)
Take care,
Joe
(I promised Doug I'd try not to get too graphic.)
Let's take the case of a male H&N cancer survivor whose primary tumor came back positive for HPV. Let's say he decides to avoid "giving" and only "receives" because he does not want to expose his throat to HPV again.
So, of the two people engaged in this act, which one is certain to already have HPV dormant in his system? The male. Can he transmit said virus to the female while he is "receiving"? Yep (if he has not already). Can she transmit it back to him? Yup, if she kisses him on the mouth while she still has live virus in her mouth. How long after "receiving" would it be safe to kiss her? 1 hour? 1 day? I don't think there have been studies.
My understanding is that most H&N cancer crops up years after the person has been infected (a bit like herpes flareups). Usually, we fight off the virus when first infected and it sits around, sulking. Then, you have one of those very stressful events (illness, divorce/laid off/bankruptcy, several bad hair days in a row. . . ) and you get a flareup. A few years later, the doctor gives you the bad news about that sore throat or swollen lymph node.
According to several doctors I've talked to, the time between the exposure and the flare up can easily be decades (since we've been married over 30 years, then we will assume it can be over 30 decades. . .now please put the knife down, Mary).
So: if you are still in a relationship with the woman you either gave to or received from before you were diagnosed, I doubt there is any greater risk in giving than in receiving so don't be afraid of giving (do I hear applause from some of the ladies?).
If you are dating, then you could indeed expose yourself to a different strain of HPV from the one that already changed your life. In theory, it should take just as long to cause a new cancer as the old one did. And it might never cause cancer if you can avoid a flare up. However, having had cancer once might make you more susceptible. Or it might make you more immune. I'm sure the research on this will not be done soon enough to help anyone here.
I picked one particular case - it is likely a bit different for gay men, and straight or gay women. Regardless, the combination of the long dormant period and the factors involved in a flareup are going to it very hard for any doctor to give any kind of reasonable advice on this topic for a while. (The unreasonable advice being total celibacy or "safe" oral sex, however one accomplishes that.)
There - I got through the whole discussion and didn't use the term "snowball" even once. Oops.0 -
Positive Re-EnforcementDrMary said:Safer to Receive Than To Give?
(I promised Doug I'd try not to get too graphic.)
Let's take the case of a male H&N cancer survivor whose primary tumor came back positive for HPV. Let's say he decides to avoid "giving" and only "receives" because he does not want to expose his throat to HPV again.
So, of the two people engaged in this act, which one is certain to already have HPV dormant in his system? The male. Can he transmit said virus to the female while he is "receiving"? Yep (if he has not already). Can she transmit it back to him? Yup, if she kisses him on the mouth while she still has live virus in her mouth. How long after "receiving" would it be safe to kiss her? 1 hour? 1 day? I don't think there have been studies.
My understanding is that most H&N cancer crops up years after the person has been infected (a bit like herpes flareups). Usually, we fight off the virus when first infected and it sits around, sulking. Then, you have one of those very stressful events (illness, divorce/laid off/bankruptcy, several bad hair days in a row. . . ) and you get a flareup. A few years later, the doctor gives you the bad news about that sore throat or swollen lymph node.
According to several doctors I've talked to, the time between the exposure and the flare up can easily be decades (since we've been married over 30 years, then we will assume it can be over 30 decades. . .now please put the knife down, Mary).
So: if you are still in a relationship with the woman you either gave to or received from before you were diagnosed, I doubt there is any greater risk in giving than in receiving so don't be afraid of giving (do I hear applause from some of the ladies?).
If you are dating, then you could indeed expose yourself to a different strain of HPV from the one that already changed your life. In theory, it should take just as long to cause a new cancer as the old one did. And it might never cause cancer if you can avoid a flare up. However, having had cancer once might make you more susceptible. Or it might make you more immune. I'm sure the research on this will not be done soon enough to help anyone here.
I picked one particular case - it is likely a bit different for gay men, and straight or gay women. Regardless, the combination of the long dormant period and the factors involved in a flareup are going to it very hard for any doctor to give any kind of reasonable advice on this topic for a while. (The unreasonable advice being total celibacy or "safe" oral sex, however one accomplishes that.)
There - I got through the whole discussion and didn't use the term "snowball" even once. Oops.
Seems like I already mentioned all of that...but positive re-enforcement is always a good thing.
JG0 -
Co-authorshipSkiffin16 said:Positive Re-Enforcement
Seems like I already mentioned all of that...but positive re-enforcement is always a good thing.
JG
Indeed, other than a few details, we overlapped a bit and mine came later, so I should have acknowledged your previous mentions. I wanted to summarize the issue and problems from another angle and was having a bit too much fun to stop writing, but maybe we'll co-author something some time.0 -
"safe" oral sex, however oneDrMary said:Safer to Receive Than To Give?
(I promised Doug I'd try not to get too graphic.)
Let's take the case of a male H&N cancer survivor whose primary tumor came back positive for HPV. Let's say he decides to avoid "giving" and only "receives" because he does not want to expose his throat to HPV again.
So, of the two people engaged in this act, which one is certain to already have HPV dormant in his system? The male. Can he transmit said virus to the female while he is "receiving"? Yep (if he has not already). Can she transmit it back to him? Yup, if she kisses him on the mouth while she still has live virus in her mouth. How long after "receiving" would it be safe to kiss her? 1 hour? 1 day? I don't think there have been studies.
My understanding is that most H&N cancer crops up years after the person has been infected (a bit like herpes flareups). Usually, we fight off the virus when first infected and it sits around, sulking. Then, you have one of those very stressful events (illness, divorce/laid off/bankruptcy, several bad hair days in a row. . . ) and you get a flareup. A few years later, the doctor gives you the bad news about that sore throat or swollen lymph node.
According to several doctors I've talked to, the time between the exposure and the flare up can easily be decades (since we've been married over 30 years, then we will assume it can be over 30 decades. . .now please put the knife down, Mary).
So: if you are still in a relationship with the woman you either gave to or received from before you were diagnosed, I doubt there is any greater risk in giving than in receiving so don't be afraid of giving (do I hear applause from some of the ladies?).
If you are dating, then you could indeed expose yourself to a different strain of HPV from the one that already changed your life. In theory, it should take just as long to cause a new cancer as the old one did. And it might never cause cancer if you can avoid a flare up. However, having had cancer once might make you more susceptible. Or it might make you more immune. I'm sure the research on this will not be done soon enough to help anyone here.
I picked one particular case - it is likely a bit different for gay men, and straight or gay women. Regardless, the combination of the long dormant period and the factors involved in a flareup are going to it very hard for any doctor to give any kind of reasonable advice on this topic for a while. (The unreasonable advice being total celibacy or "safe" oral sex, however one accomplishes that.)
There - I got through the whole discussion and didn't use the term "snowball" even once. Oops.
"safe" oral sex, however one accomplishes that."
Maybe "safe-er sex?" I guess technically you cannot be 100% safe from everything. You can accomplish being safer by using flavored condoms for men and dental dams for women. Not sure why that's unreasonable advice if some one is going to make the choice and engage in oral sex?0 -
Unreasonable vs unsupportedsweetblood22 said:"safe" oral sex, however one
"safe" oral sex, however one accomplishes that."
Maybe "safe-er sex?" I guess technically you cannot be 100% safe from everything. You can accomplish being safer by using flavored condoms for men and dental dams for women. Not sure why that's unreasonable advice if some one is going to make the choice and engage in oral sex?
You are right - unreasonable is not the right word, as it implied the advice was unreasonable; unsupportable might be a better word. At the moment, a doctor can not tell you that abstaining or using protection will keep you from getting HPV-caused cancer again. Nor can that doctor tell you that the opposite will increase your chances of getting HPV-caused cancer again. There are much stronger reasons to abstain or use protection, but I'm not finding any support for the idea that avoiding an HPV-caused cancer relapse is one.
About "safe" oral sex - I grew up in a time when any oral sex was considered "safe" (from a pregnancy point of view, which is all we worried about, since the viruses were mostly unknown and antibiotics cured the rest).0
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