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DIET Post removed !!

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 973
Joined: Nov 2009

Wow,

Someone (Joseph) posts his success story which he thinks was primarily due to diet with a mention of a clinic that will support alternative treatments and diet, and he gets attacked, abused and now run of the board. The post was intended to have people investigate the benefits diet may offer to their winning this battle.

Shame shame shame on the shallow small minded people on this board for their pathetic behavior.

The isolation of his use of 2 different survival percentages (the 5% & 20%) used as lethal ammunition on the guy. Here's a news flash sherlocks, that is what his 'Doctors' said. that's right folks, Doctor's'. More than one person was quoted. A bit hard to figure that one for some of you perhaps. I personally had 4 or 4 different 'guesses' by my DoctorS about my possible survival percentage. I won't post those numbers here in case some of you get confused.

If the post was flagged, the only one who should have flagged it was Joseph himself for the shameful abuse that was hurled at him.

While there exists a division on these boards between mainstream treatments offered, and other options, we should be tolerant of such material within reason, and limit comment to sensible responses.

Those who made these vicious attacks maybe need to broaden their scope of reading material and actually learn something about what Joseph's post was about. You might even get a nice surprise.

Scam

Anonymous user (not verified)

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

its in the past, forget it, forgive and live today.
we loose enough to crc,

enough is enough.

hugs,

pete

mukamom's picture
mukamom
Posts: 402
Joined: Oct 2010

I have followed this since ol Joe posted. I dismissed it as being a scam, perhaps it was not. But it is gone and it is past time to let it rest. Not worth all the bickering going on. We are here for support, not to attack each other.

War is not healthy
for children
and other
living
things.

Best to all

Angela

geotina's picture
geotina
Posts: 2118
Joined: Oct 2009

He was not a newbie or a new poster. He has been around for six months and it was not his first post.

Tina

sharpy102's picture
sharpy102
Posts: 370
Joined: Apr 2009

Hey people: I think there's no point of "arguing" over what is good, or wrong, or whether casein is bad, or not. First of all, picture this:

Healthy cells divide at a certain rate to replenish the tissue they build up. Some, divide faster, such as epidermal cells (that build up your skin and you basically believe it or not, no matter how great lotion you are using, you shed your skin on a daily basis!!!) while others such as lung cells do not divide rapidly, as if you are happy and healthy lung tissue remains intact nearly throughout your whole life. You grow, your body changes, you need to adjust, it's nicely set and balanced when and which kinds of cells need to turn on their cell-cycle and replicate, and when they should stop, and be quiescent (basically a big word for "dormant").
Now, a cancer cell (any type, not just colon) is totally the same as the healthy except: it gained a mutation either in their DNA damage checking machinery, so cannot detect errors (which honestly, we make a lot...we are just not aware of it as they get "fixed"). Some gain a mutation in the cell cycle arrest, so no matter that there's a very bad mutation, they cannot "feed" the same signaling pathway as normal cells hence they keep dividing. And sometimes we can obtain multiple mutations, let's say both of the above. There are more, but I don't want to seem like I'm a "smartA". Anyway, the main point, when we drink milk, we eat meat, we eat...I don't know...tennis ball...even though it's not edible, our body has a very good system to try to metabolize stuff and break them down into small components, and see which can be utilized either as a sugar source to feed ALL cells (including healthy and cancer cells), or amino acids, or K for K channels that dictate our homeostatis...whatever...but in short, things we cannot utilize...we poop it out. :) (wow, who knew that, eh?) :) Of course, there are known carginogenic stuff such as ethidium bromide that is famous for intercalating into DNA and hence causing great deal of mutations, but remember, these are not NATURAL compounds. That's exactly why they are dangerous. And like others mentioned, when we already have a couple mutations, our body no longer gets the appropriate signaling pathways as it would otherwise. Some components of the normal signaling cascade are "out of the game" while others are constitutively active even though they should not be. From this point on, even healthy food, and stuff can be "toxic" and "bad" for you because you cannot break them down the same way as you used to. Now I'm not saying don't eat anything...I'm just saying all this because I think it is totally unnecessary to argue on if casein is good, or not, or what is bad for you, and what you should be eating. Whatever you eat, if your body is already altered (due to cancer that altered your signaling cascade) danger is always out there! And two people being diagnosed with the same type of cancer with the same stage etc. are might NOT be the same as where they gain a mutation that caused these cells to get out of control. So, X can eat a shitload of BigMac and no problem and he makes it out alive after only a year of chemo, while Y cannot eat BigMac at all, feeds himself on veggies, antioxidants, flavin, Avemar, and he goes through multiple surgeries and eventually dies within a year. Sorry, this sounds drastic but this is the case...everybody's cancer is different...and these chemo drugs that we have are targeting some that scientists have identified as one that can be responsible for cancer, and can be targeted without killing the patient during the first round of treatment! Let's not dwell on what is good, or what is bad for people to eat! We can give advices what we have tried and what seemed to work...that's totally fine! Everybody should be aware that that's no guarantee that it will work for you/me/him/her. But let's not argue stating directly that "this is bad for you" or "this is definitely good for you". Okay? Except for obvious mutagenic materials which are scientifically proven to be bad for you (Ethidium bromide).
Please take care of yourself and others! Be gentle, we are here to help each other, not to attack each other...we have cancer to attack, right? :)
Sophie

maglets's picture
maglets
Posts: 2596
Joined: Jun 2006

yawn

ellamenno's picture
ellamenno
Posts: 145
Joined: Aug 2010

So succinct:)

Laurie

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 973
Joined: Nov 2009

Sophies quote:

"Let's not dwell on what is good, or what is bad for people to eat! We can give advices what we have tried and what seemed to work...that's totally fine! Everybody should be aware that that's no guarantee that it will work for you/me/him/her. But let's not argue stating directly that "this is bad for you" or "this is definitely good for you". Okay? Except for obvious mutagenic materials which are scientifically proven to be bad for you (Ethidium bromide)."

Response

If we do find a particular diet or food beneficial, or have found that eliminating certain foods has caused us a benefit, then we should share that information. What you wrote about this is, well is a bit, well confounding. The band is still playing.

There is evidence, there are studies, in essence proof, that consuming certain foods may increase the risk of getting or progressing cancer (So .....Let's not talk about it ??)

As for the 'some can eat BigMacs and some can't' argument, There are truck loads of evidence about diet and the positive and negative effects or certain foods. You dismiss this as if, 'well - it doesn't always work, so don't bother'.

Lets just say for example that by eliminating Animal Protein from your diet will give you an X% better chance of survival, you eliminate free sugars, that gives you Y% increase, you eliminate cigarettes and alcohol, and they say that about a 30% increase in outcome, you increase you intake of fresh veges, fruit etc adding another few % points, and the list goes on.

Now wouldn't one think that if you can do these things that will potentially improve your situation, you should make the 'lifestyle' sacrifice, and include these things in your arsenal as part of your war against cancer ? i.e. elimination of bad, inclusion of good.

If the BigMac 'might' help kill you, then isn't it wise to eliminate that risk ?

It's all about stacking the deck in your favor. Every time you consume something that will potentiually cause you harm, you put a card on the cancer deck, and when you eliminate the risky foods and consume the healthy foods, you are putting cards on your stack.

You are right, there are no guarantees, but I think you have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

I hear the " my neighbour was a vegetarian and he died of Cancer". Hardly an argument to avoid trying a Vegetarian or Anti-Cancer diet. That is a typical argument again diet that appears on these boards.

For the many people I know who are seriously using diet as an integral part of their battle plan, I have not heard one negative complaint or effect from taking this route (except for occassional 'boredom' with food).

On the other hand, the benefits I have heard about, and experienced myself are manifold, and everyone I know who has taken this path has named benefits.

When one discovers such benefits, which may be marginal or substantial, you feel obliged to cry out the news from the balcony "Hey, this really worked (for me)".

Instead of the instant 'cut down' of such claims, maybe some questions about exactly what that individual did, diet, treatments, protocols etc would be of possible benefit to this forum.

Eliminating diet and talk of food on these forums would be like removing some critical chapters of an important book about survival.

Speaking of books, I have an interesting one for you to consider reading. PM me if you are interested and I will arrange to send it to you (intact).

Scam

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

science is debate , proof, argument, experiment. on and on.

the world was flat once.

the moon was made of cheese once.

in 50 years todays chemo will be viewsed as barbaric. i hope as treatment will then be so advanced.

science is dynamic.

alot of our disagreementd here are around defending our treatment choices.

scam approach to hedging bets, is similar to mine. don't investors hedge positiond all the time in financial markets.

i read the book it was compelling....

hugs,
pete

ps had leafy green salad for dinner.

AncientTiger's picture
AncientTiger
Posts: 130
Joined: Mar 2011

I'm not taking sides or anything... I'm new here and don't really feel I've earned the right, much less understand the histories or nuances of this community. But I DO know something about enforcing rules, and if someone breaks the rules of this community, then it shouldn't be surprising to see their post removed and membership revoked. It's simple... you break rules, you suffer the consequences. That's the way of the world.

As for the infighting... we ALL lead stressful lives. Many of us are fighting cancer today, many of us have FOUGHT cancer in the past, and we ALL have normal day-to-day stresses to deal with. When we're in stressful situations, emotions can run hot, and as a result sometimes we can lash out with strong words.

Please everyone... keep this in mind when dealing with each other. EACH of us has our personal opinions. And unless we violate the rules in expressing them, we EACH have a right to voice those opinions. Let's let cool heads and mutual respect rule the day, not hurtful feelings that do nothing but... hurt.

Haven't we ALL dealt with enough hurt in our lives without adding to it here?

Just some thoughts to ponder ;)

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4907
Joined: May 2005

If you're here, you have the right to voice your opinions. You walk the walk etc...
Stress has a lot to do with reactions to posts. I know that is true for me and I think it is for others but I do not KNOW how others are so I will leave it up to them. If the rules were followed better it could reduce some of this. I know that for me, when I'm not feeling well it sometimes comes out in posts or responses.
Thank you for posting your thoughts on this.

Reminds me of a joke...
THE BODY PARTS MEETING

"One day the different parts of the body were having an argument to see which should be in charge:

The brain said "I do all the thinking so I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The eyes said "I see everything and let the rest of you know where we are, so I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The hands said: "Without me we wouldn't be able to pick anything up or move anything. So I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The stomach said: "I turn the food we eat into energy for the rest of you. Without me, we'd starve. So I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

The legs said: "Without me we wouldn't be able to move anywhere. I'm the most important and I should be in charge."

Then the rectum said: "I think I should be in charge."
All the rest of the parts said: YOU?!!
You don't do anything! You're not as important as we are, surely!
You can't be in charge!"

So the rectum closed up...
After a few days, the legs were all wobbly,
the stomach was all queasy,
the hands were all shaky,
the eyes were all watery,
and the brain was all cloudy.
They all agreed that they couldn't take any more of this and agreed to put the rectum in charge.

The moral of the story?"
if one is not regular,
one can act irregular...

-phil

PGLGreg's picture
PGLGreg
Posts: 741
Joined: Jul 2006

An appeal to an unspecified rule (not a law), by an unspecified person, with the reasoning for the interpretation not given, is a pretty feeble excuse for deleting a post. I think that everyone who complained about the post in question, in effect asking for the post to be deleted, should be ashamed.

--Greg

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

From the T&C's:

No User shall advise other Users about medical care or attempt to influence their medical care decisions. Members are encouraged to share their own medical experiences, but medical advice to others is strictly prohibited, regardless of a Member's medical education, credentials, or experience. The purpose of the Cancer Survivors Network is a peer to peer support service.

No User shall use the Service to proselytize. The religious beliefs of all faiths are to be respected. The spiritual beliefs of all Members are to be respected regardless of whether they are in accordance with the beliefs of any religious group or teachings of other Members. No User shall disrespect or judge the beliefs or decisions of other Members on religious, spiritual, or other issues including but not limited to lifestyle, relationships, and medical care.

The T&C's are a legally binding (by law) contract with the site owners.

The "unspecified person" is Greta. If you have questions she can be PM'd, or you can use the Contact CSN link at the top right hand side of the page.

Just complaining about a post does not get it deleted, this entire thread being a case in point. As Pete notes in an earlier post, this thread was flagged, yet here it is today (to be clear, I did not flag it).

All opinions are not equal, and having a set of rules to abide by can prevent a board from getting out of control. In my time here, we have had religious zealots, a few ad men, a student running a survey and a couple of threads that inadvertently crossed the line into medical advice. I, for one, am happy that these rules exist, and I attempt to stay within them.

PGLGreg's picture
PGLGreg
Posts: 741
Joined: Jul 2006

"The T&C's are a legally binding (by law) contract with the site owners."

How do you know they are legally binding? Did someone tell you that? A judge, a lawyer? Can you quote a statute? Or are you just making this up as you go?

--Greg

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

From WiseGeek

"If you’ve ever signed a lease, gotten married, used a checking account, or even used various Internet sites like wiseGEEK or YouTube, you’ve made certain agreements. These agreements are often called legally binding agreements, because they define the terms undertaken during a contract. Legally binding simply means that one agrees with the terms under a written or spoken contract to behave in certain ways. The terms and conditions of such a contract can either prohibit or define appropriate behavior under the agreement. Violation of terms in a legally binding agreement can either void the contract, or cause legal repercussions....

...Using certain types of software, or websites may also require one to agree to terms and conditions. Recently, most US courts have ruled that any agreement to terms and conditions on the Internet is legally binding. Therefore, if one violates the terms and conditions of the agreement, one is essentially tied up legally to whatever one agreed to in the first place. Using a computer program legally binds one, in many cases, to not duplicating the program. It may also absolve the company of damages if the program in some way harms the computer or one’s self."

Greg,

It is called an electronic signature, and it is as legally binding as a wet one.

If you do not believe me, please feel free to contact the site owners, or spend a little money and get a contract lawyers opinion.

PGLGreg's picture
PGLGreg
Posts: 741
Joined: Jul 2006

If Wisegeek says it's so, then I guess that pretty much settles it. Right?

--Greg

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

If you do not believe me, please feel free to contact the site owners, or spend a little money and get a contract lawyers opinion.

Alternately, you could use Google and check yourself.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=106_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ229.106.pdf

Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (ESIGN, Pub.L. 106-229, 14 Stat. 464, enacted June 30, 2000, 15 U.S.C. ch.96) is a United States federal law passed by the U.S. Congress to facilitate the use of electronic records and electronic signatures in interstate and foreign commerce by ensuring the validity and legal effect of contracts entered into electronically. In 2010, both Houses of Congress passed a resolution at the request of industry leaders, recognizing June 30 as "National ESIGN Day."[1][2]

Although every state has at least one law pertaining to electronic signatures, it is the federal law that lays out the guidelines for interstate commerce. The general intent of the ESIGN Act is spelled out in the very first section(101.a), that a contract or signature “may not be denied legal effect, validity, or enforceability solely because it is in electronic form”. This simple statement provides that electronic signatures and records are just as good as their paper equivalents, and therefore subject to the same legal scrutiny of authenticity that applies to paper documents.[3]

PhillieG's picture
PhillieG
Posts: 4907
Joined: May 2005

Do you honestly believe that if a person claims to know how to turn cancer off that the post should not be questioned and/or flagged?

PGLGreg's picture
PGLGreg
Posts: 741
Joined: Jul 2006

Question it by all means. Flag it, meaning ask that no one else be allowed to read it and form their own opinion, no way. It's not your business to tell me what I may and may not read.

--Greg

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Is a request for review. Nothing more, and it denies you nothing.

Threads can, and are, removed by Greta only if they violate the T&C's. In some cases they were never flagged (she can read for herself).

Really, if you have a problem with this, take it up with the administrator. No individual user can have a thread deleted on a whim (the sole exception is that the thread creator can delete it).

wolfen's picture
wolfen
Posts: 1325
Joined: Apr 2009

For clarifying something for me. I also saw Lisa mention this. If a person can remove their own thread, is it possible that "Joe" removed his own thread when he discovered it was not favorably received. Perhaps if he had phrased it differently???? He did come on rather strong. I personally felt that his mentioning a clinic in Florida and Arizona was no different than any other member who mentions where they are receiving treatment. If the methods he uses are helping to keep him healthy, I am glad for him. I wish the same health for each of you here.

Luv,
Wolfen

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

The thought has crossed my mind.

Joe's user account is still active, so it was not egregious enough for a ban so...

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

a valid point.

hugs,
pete

tootsie1's picture
tootsie1
Posts: 5056
Joined: Feb 2008

Wonderful, AncientTiger!

*Hugs*
Gail

Sonia32's picture
Sonia32
Posts: 1078
Joined: Mar 2009

We lose another valuable member to this god awful disease and what are we doing still bickering.

Just wanted to add arguing happens not just on here, I've seen it happen on the colon club, even colon town.

Anyway that's all I wanted to say

Anonymous user (not verified)

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Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 3045
Joined: May 2009

Who gives a rats ***!

Geez!

plh4gail's picture
plh4gail
Posts: 1238
Joined: Oct 2010

lol....thats funny Raquel...:)

love ya buddy

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3642
Joined: Apr 2010

I'm with plh4gail, that was tooo funny Raquel and that we need a like button. ROFLMAO

plh4gail's picture
plh4gail
Posts: 1238
Joined: Oct 2010

:))

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

You know how much rats have contributed to medical research, all unvoluntarily, I may add.....Bella (with help from human typist)

Nana b's picture
Nana b
Posts: 3045
Joined: May 2009

Who gives a Bat's poop!

Anonymous user (not verified)

This comment has been removed by the Moderator

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Kris Carr is so uplifting and full of positive energy. She has a website as well:

www.crazysexycancer.com

I don't know if you saw the post up above, but the place she went to (I think it's in Florida) is:

www.hippocratesinst.org

She also has this place listed:

www.livingfoodinstitute.com

Yes, the wonderful folks on the boards sent me a plaque in 2005 that I have hanging on my wall. It was quite humbling and touching.

Anyway, enjoy the book. You'll laugh out loud, which is balm to the cancer soul when we can actually laugh in spite of this disease.

Hope it helps.

peace, emily

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

Translation from ratspeak:"Thank you"........(sorry chiroptera lovers)

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

(that was the pitter-patter from my feet across the keyboard)..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ... .. .. . . ...... ...... ...

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3642
Joined: Apr 2010

I went to the 7-11 about a year ago (been there about 4 times in 12 years)and was standing behind this man, who had a very big and long tail coming down his back, I peered around to the front of him and discovered the tail belonged to a large white rat. I couldn't believe how big the rat was or his "packages" Good Grief Charlie Brown. He said he takes his rat everywhere with him. It was very well behaved and let me pet him (the rat). I did own mice once before my ex made me give them away, he didn't like rodents, I sure enjoyed the little fellows. Enjoy your rat.
Winter Marie

here4lfe
Posts: 306
Joined: Jan 2010

I am new here also, mostly a lurker. Cancer is hard, the hardest thing I've dealt with in my life, and I'm the caregiver !

My wife is starting to think about what she can do, in addition to chemo, to fight this thing. She has always had a balanced diet, so this thing took us by surprise. So the more information the better. What works for you MIGHT work for me TOO (the corollary to the usual argument).

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