Vaccine 90 percent effective

hopeful and optimistic
hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
edited February 23 in Prostate Cancer #1

Great news today. The best since February. I am celebrating. Pfizer's vaccine is 90 percent effective. The other vaccine making companies are using the same ingredients. Stay safe for the next few months.

I am celebrating 

 

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Comments

  • Old Salt
    Old Salt Member Posts: 934 Member
    edited November 2020 #2
    Yes, very hopeful

    At least one other company is pursuing the same (mRNA) technology.

    But there are other approaches in development as well.

  • Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3
    Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3 Member Posts: 3,736 Member
    edited November 2020 #3
    COVID

    Many people were saying that COVID "would end as a problem in the US on November 3."   They were laughed at.    It took a week longer than they predicted......

     

    Note:  a virus vaccine that is 75% effective is regarded as hugely successful

     

  • Georges Calvez
    Georges Calvez Member Posts: 546 Member
    Delivery

    Hi there,

    There are still immense logistical problems to overcome.
    The vaccine has to be stored at dry ice temperatures which requires thermal shock resistant vials on an immense scale as you need two shots per person.
    It also has to be transported in insulated containers packed with dry ice, we do not remotely have sufficient manufacturing facilities for this.
    Transporting the vaccine to remote areas / getting people to vaccination stations will require a lot of effort.
    Densely populated areas like cities will be fairly easy, low density rural areas will be a different ball game.
    If people have to be regularly revaccinated then the problems will multiply.
    The UK reckons they can vacccinate 10 million before Christmas and maybe 20 million in the first quarter next year, that is only 60 million injections to schedule and carry out in what is a small and densely populated island with a pretty efficient state controlled national health system.
    Other places are a lot harder, I am calling it qualified good news for the moment.

    Best wishes,

    Georges

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,513 Member
    edited January 2021 #5
    Vaccines' effectiveness may not mach efficacy

    I wonder how they measure the efficacy of the vaccines. Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca who produces the so called mRNA-vaccines, claimed that theirs were 90% effective in accordance to the results from the short clinical trials, but I think that the reference regards the side effects from the vaccination which were considered as safe. Efficacy in combating the bug can only be substantiated if the trials involved injecting the live virus on the participants. Using nurses or people treating covid patients or belonging to the combat’s front line is not enough. I believe that efficacy will only be confirmed in one year time since inoculation, and that should include the results on those identified with the sars-cov2 variants. In fact, these mRNA vaccines using part of the genetic material of the virus to create T- or B-lymphocytes may not be adequate to all the variants. More time is needed to be certain that the present vaccines are the solution to Covid-19.

    In another thread Grinder informed about the (Eli) Lilly vaccine which is produced with a deactivated sars-cov2. The purpose is to educate the immune system in recognizing it as foreigner, leading to an attack on the bug. This principle is similar to the common type of vaccines used around the world to combat the seasonal cold. However, sars-cov2 shows to be better prepared for invasion of lung cells than other virus as its protein “spike” got better affinity to cause infection at this vital and delicate organ. Once in the cell it goes through mutations becoming more intelligent at each time leading to variants that can be thought as new novel coronavirus (nCoV) that are not yet identified by the immune system. This type of vaccine would require being adaptable to each mutation to show efficacy.

    In this regard I believe that the advanced Eli Lilly drug to treat infection (commented by our fella Grinder) is a better option. This is a monoclonal antibody (mAB) working similarly to the ones in use to treat cancer that we have spoken in previous threads regarding the clinical trials on mabs for PCa. Eli Lilly drug (Bamlanivimab) as passed some clinical trials and have been approved to fight Covid-19. MABs act as stealth missiles. They aim the bug’s “spike” wherever it lies; lungs, heart, nerves, brain, vessels, kidneys and skin.

    In my lay opinion, the immune system doesn't kill the virus but it kills those cells that have been infected by the virus, eliminating the malady for good. The effects caused by the action of the immune system in the lungs can be so destructive to the extent of causing permanent scars affecting the patient for life. The long-haulers as they are known now. Too much intervention by the immune system can cause "cytokine release syndrome" which can be fatal in serious cases.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year | Cancer Survivors Network

    Let’s be careful to avoid bringing the virus into our homes or contracting it.

    Best wishes to all.

    VGama

  • lighterwood67
    lighterwood67 Member Posts: 324 Member
    edited January 2021 #6

    Vaccines' effectiveness may not mach efficacy

    I wonder how they measure the efficacy of the vaccines. Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca who produces the so called mRNA-vaccines, claimed that theirs were 90% effective in accordance to the results from the short clinical trials, but I think that the reference regards the side effects from the vaccination which were considered as safe. Efficacy in combating the bug can only be substantiated if the trials involved injecting the live virus on the participants. Using nurses or people treating covid patients or belonging to the combat’s front line is not enough. I believe that efficacy will only be confirmed in one year time since inoculation, and that should include the results on those identified with the sars-cov2 variants. In fact, these mRNA vaccines using part of the genetic material of the virus to create T- or B-lymphocytes may not be adequate to all the variants. More time is needed to be certain that the present vaccines are the solution to Covid-19.

    In another thread Grinder informed about the (Eli) Lilly vaccine which is produced with a deactivated sars-cov2. The purpose is to educate the immune system in recognizing it as foreigner, leading to an attack on the bug. This principle is similar to the common type of vaccines used around the world to combat the seasonal cold. However, sars-cov2 shows to be better prepared for invasion of lung cells than other virus as its protein “spike” got better affinity to cause infection at this vital and delicate organ. Once in the cell it goes through mutations becoming more intelligent at each time leading to variants that can be thought as new novel coronavirus (nCoV) that are not yet identified by the immune system. This type of vaccine would require being adaptable to each mutation to show efficacy.

    In this regard I believe that the advanced Eli Lilly drug to treat infection (commented by our fella Grinder) is a better option. This is a monoclonal antibody (mAB) working similarly to the ones in use to treat cancer that we have spoken in previous threads regarding the clinical trials on mabs for PCa. Eli Lilly drug (Bamlanivimab) as passed some clinical trials and have been approved to fight Covid-19. MABs act as stealth missiles. They aim the bug’s “spike” wherever it lies; lungs, heart, nerves, brain, vessels, kidneys and skin.

    In my lay opinion, the immune system doesn't kill the virus but it kills those cells that have been infected by the virus, eliminating the malady for good. The effects caused by the action of the immune system in the lungs can be so destructive to the extent of causing permanent scars affecting the patient for life. The long-haulers as they are known now. Too much intervention by the immune system can cause "cytokine release syndrome" which can be fatal in serious cases.

    Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year | Cancer Survivors Network

    Let’s be careful to avoid bringing the virus into our homes or contracting it.

    Best wishes to all.

    VGama

    Interesting Article

    Always good to read about these vaccines.  However, for now, I am sticking with the short guy, Dr Fauci and of course current guidance.  Take care.  

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    edited January 2021 #7
    Help

    Vascodagama... It seems the antibody treatment, which I agree would be a preferred treatment for positive Covid cases, is not being used as a first line of defense here in the States. 

    Since I cannot comment on the political atmosphere here in a partisan way according to forum guidelines, suffice it to say that politics is driving the Covid response whether by the Lilly antibody med, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, Remdesivir, Hydroxychloroquine, competing vaccines that have been quashed, etc.

    The media has the public so confused because of their own partisanship, no one knows what is true or what is not. Anecdotal evidence we witness often contradicts media reporting on politics and Covid information. 

    And if you haven't heard, social media giants are in a massive campaign to eliminate dissenting voices.

    At this point, I cannot say anything regarding Covid vaccines and treatments to be true or not. Covid is a political football being kicked back and forth and used as a cause celebre to push political agendas here in the States. 

    Any information everyone in this forum relays from outside regarding covid is greatly appreciated.

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    Hmmm

    Not long after I opined on the various treatments above... lo and behold Hydroxychloroquine is being given renewed interest as an effective treatment for early onset symptoms in various medical journals.

    Who knew?

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    edited January 2021 #9
    Dr Fauci

    Agree, thank G-d for Dr Fauci, who although short in stature is heads above the rest of with scientific based comments. Also THANK YOU to the scientists ,doctors, statisticians and others who developed these vaccines. 

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    edited January 2021 #10
    Astra-Zeneca in U.S. but....

    This is an example of the confusion here regarding vaccines as well as positive case numbers:

    ****************************

    Medical experts say the bottleneck could be loosened if the Food and Drug Administration approved Oxford-AstraZeneca, a vaccine developed by Oxford researchers that is more affordable than other vaccines currently available and far easier to distribute.

    “The FDA needs to stop playing games and authorize the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. It’s safe, cheap ($2-$3 a dose), and is the easiest vaccine to distribute,” says Dr. Marty Makary, a professor of surgery and health policy at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. “It does not require freezing and is already approved and being administered in the United Kingdom.”

    Others agreed.

    Economist Alex Tabarrok pointed out that AstraZeneca’s coronavirus vaccine is being produced at a Baltimore plantright now, and is capable of producing tens to hundreds of millions of doses annually.

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    edited January 2021 #11
    .
    • In the UK, vaccines Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZeneca are being used to fight the pandemic. AstraZeneca's hasn't been approved for use yet in the US.
    • AstraZeneca may not apply for a US FDA Emergency Use Authorization until the spring. The data from their UK trial was "odd" and had one "pretty serious error" in it, a US vaccine expert said. 
    • AstraZeneca is now conducting a larger trial of nearly 30,000 people in the US. 
  • ASAdvocate
    ASAdvocate Member Posts: 180 Member
    edited January 2021 #12

    .

    • In the UK, vaccines Pfizer, Moderna, and AstraZeneca are being used to fight the pandemic. AstraZeneca's hasn't been approved for use yet in the US.
    • AstraZeneca may not apply for a US FDA Emergency Use Authorization until the spring. The data from their UK trial was "odd" and had one "pretty serious error" in it, a US vaccine expert said. 
    • AstraZeneca is now conducting a larger trial of nearly 30,000 people in the US. 
    I was reading two days ago

    I was reading two days ago that clinical trials are having difficulty

    recruiting people, and alternative methods of validation may be needed.

    This is because prospective enrollees are preferring to get one of the available vaccines rather than enter a trial, and take the chance of getting a placebo.

  • Georges Calvez
    Georges Calvez Member Posts: 546 Member
    Wait and see

    Hi there,

    I am waiting to see what happens three or four weeks after 60 - 70 % of the population is vaccinated, in theory there should be a drastic decline in the number of cases.
    The UK has done a high proportion of the 80+ population and is working on the 70+ part of the population now, now up to 9.8% of the total adult population vaccinated.
    As these are the high risk groups the line should start to fall soon.
    France is a long way behind, so we are still sitting it out, I am waiting for that cold glass of cider in the Café Le Finistère in the summer, but I might have to have it in the garden at home.

    Best wishes,

    Georges

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,513 Member
    edited January 2021 #14
    Wait and see

    Georges,

    I was dawn on your comment in "...  three or four weeks after 60 - 70 % of the population is vaccinated  ...". Do you really believe that such percentages are achievable in one month? The pharmas do not stock pile enough quantities even to vaccinate just 30% of the EU population within this year.

    According to the pharmas, in a two shot vaccine, the protection by the First Shot starts at about the 10th day and it only shows about 50% of effectiveness which requires a booster second shot to improve the effectiveness to close to 90%. The Second Shot is done 21 to 28 days apart but it may show still some considerable effectiveness if this period is extended up to 45 days. This means that the double shot is unavoidable to achieve the purposes; however, when we look on the issue globally we find that it will take over ten years to inoculate the world population for the success against Covid-19.

    Israel that managed to get a high volume of vaccines, ahead of any other country of the world, in an obscure manner, may provide a clue about the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine now that they have about 30% of vaccinated population, but still doubtful as they check effectiveness by the symptoms in each vaccinated person. They do not test to confirm inoculation.

    Unless someone finds a drug that provides cure, I believe that sars-cov2 is to stay and that, even those that got the double vaccine, will require an annual boost similar to those that get the common shot for other coronavirus. This kind of boosting system will be hardly achievable worldwide in a time scale appropriate if more resources are not facilitated in the world.

    Sorry for my above opinion.

    Best,

    VG

  • Georges Calvez
    Georges Calvez Member Posts: 546 Member
    edited January 2021 #15
    Misunderstanding

    Hi Vasco,

    We have a misunderstanding here.
    I am talking about three to four weeks AFTER the target of 60-70% of the population has been achieved.
    This will allow the vaccine to produce an effective level of antibodies and confer whatever resistance it is capable of achieving.
    The UK has done 9.8% so far, I reckon they will get up to that kind of percentage by the late spring /early summer if they increase their rate which looks likely, end of June at the latest.
    Israel is certainly interesting, they have a high vaccination rate so that it should start to impact the transmission and hospitalisation rate if the vaccine is effective.
    I have my doubts about finding a drug quickly, all the likely candidates must have been tried by now.
    Certainly living with COVID-19 is on the cards for some time, but for how long and the difficulty of doing so is still very difficult to determine.

    Best wishes,

    Georges

  • Georges Calvez
    Georges Calvez Member Posts: 546 Member

    Hi there,

    This seems to indicate that a high rate of vaccination will control the epidemic, at least at the moment.
    However producing enough vaccine and carrying out worldwide vaccination is a herculean task.
    The article was taken from the Guardian.

    Best wishes,

    Georges

    No serious Covid cases among those receiving both Pfizer jabs in Israel, minister says

     

    Israel, which has already given a full set of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccinations to over 6% of its citizens, has not registered a single serious Covid case among them, even as infections surge in the wider population, the government has said, Reuters reports.


    Health minister Yuli Edelstein told a parliamentary panel that new infections and hospital admissions for serious or critical Covid-19 complications were now at record numbers. But he said he knew of “no serious morbidity” among Israelis eligible for the vaccination certificate – a document issued by the state a week after the second dose is administered, when Pfizer says the vaccine is 95% effective.

    He said 0.014% had contracted milder forms of Covid-19. According to health ministry figures, 23% have received the first shot and more than 6% the second, between 21 and 28 days later. A week after beginning vaccinations, it imposed its third national lockdown, which officials say may need to be extended into February.

    But last Thursday it reported a reproduction number - known as R - of less than 1, which indicates that epidemic is no longer growing.

     

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,513 Member
    Let's wait for the results in one month

    Georges,

    Thanks for the article. It seems that Israel 's vaccination program is advancing well in just 30 days since starting. Lets wait to see the results in one month time.

    Portugal started the vaccination one week later (Dec 27) but as of today it has only accomplished 3 persons per 100 whereas Israel have already done 45 persons per 100. Both programs are similar,  vaccinating firstly the medical community and older people in care homes. I wonder if the numbers in death by covid have been lowered due to the fast vaccination program. 

    Portugal become the worse European country with the highest daily number in newer cases (>1,000/million) and number of death (23/million). Some hospitals have reached rupture. The number of cases are expected to rise even if the present confinement is extended for more two weeks. The minister of health has announced that they might looking for help in other countries where to send covid patients.

    Grim situation. 

    Best 

    VG

     

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,513 Member
    edited January 2021 #18
    Vaccine 's effectiveness

    Hi again, 

    Israel TV announced today in an interim report that 100 people from 130,000 with two shots of the Pfizer vaccine have contracted the virus. I would think that these patients unfortunately belong to the 10% group that were found from the trial as not beneficiaries. 

    However, additional information regarding the cause of contraction is not provided yet, which makes me think that these positive cases occurred just at the time when the second shot was administered at the 21st to the 28th day or before it, because symptoms of infection is typically shown 10 to 15 days later. They started the shots on December 20th (38 days ago).

    EU is approving today the Astra-Zeneca vaccine for uses in people aged 16 to 65 years old so that I am disqualified for the shot. I wonder why but it could relate to the flawed data in UK's trials commented by Hopeful above. 

    Let's cross our fingers for good news on the results. 

    VG

  • Grinder
    Grinder Member Posts: 487 Member
    edited February 2021 #19
    Trials of the Lilly approach

    Well gentlemen...

    It looks like Lilly is back to developing an alternative to the messenger RNA vaccines, instead using antibodies as a preventative. They already have developed and employed an antibody treatment for patients with advancing symptoms of Covid, and now they are conducting trials for an antibody as a preventative to contracting Covid.

    And GUESS WHO MAY VERY WELL BE A TEST SUBJECT...

    THIS GUY!

    Physicians Research Group is conducting trials in Georgia, Arizona and here in central Indiana. The trial lasts about a year... begins with and interview and health screening. If I pass muster, then I will get the antibody injection on the next visit, then have 7 more visits over the year, and phone contact monitoring my health for side effects and also potential exposure to Covid during the year of monitoring.

    According to the researchers that spoke with me, this preventative antibody treatment will have advantages in that it is only one shot in the hip and it won't require special temperature storage. 

    I am excited and hoping I can get past the screening so I can be part of medical history. Of course it is all altruistic motives for my participation. The money doesn't have anything to do with it.   ;D and yes, I will get paid.  :D

     

    Assuming I pass the screening, I will keep you guys abreast of my progress. 

  • hopeful and optimistic
    hopeful and optimistic Member Posts: 2,333 Member
    edited February 2021 #20
    Grinder said:

    Trials of the Lilly approach

    Well gentlemen...

    It looks like Lilly is back to developing an alternative to the messenger RNA vaccines, instead using antibodies as a preventative. They already have developed and employed an antibody treatment for patients with advancing symptoms of Covid, and now they are conducting trials for an antibody as a preventative to contracting Covid.

    And GUESS WHO MAY VERY WELL BE A TEST SUBJECT...

    THIS GUY!

    Physicians Research Group is conducting trials in Georgia, Arizona and here in central Indiana. The trial lasts about a year... begins with and interview and health screening. If I pass muster, then I will get the antibody injection on the next visit, then have 7 more visits over the year, and phone contact monitoring my health for side effects and also potential exposure to Covid during the year of monitoring.

    According to the researchers that spoke with me, this preventative antibody treatment will have advantages in that it is only one shot in the hip and it won't require special temperature storage. 

    I am excited and hoping I can get past the screening so I can be part of medical history. Of course it is all altruistic motives for my participation. The money doesn't have anything to do with it.   ;D and yes, I will get paid.  :D

     

    Assuming I pass the screening, I will keep you guys abreast of my progress. 

    .

    Grinder

    In my eyes, you are a hero..........THANK YOU

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,513 Member
    Our hero

    Yes,  Grinder, I cross my fingers that your wish becomes true and that you are accepted into the trial. I am looking forward to read your reports and details on how everything is done, and most importantly about the success. 

    Mabs therapies are the means for fighting disease using the body defenses to reach and eliminate the malady. The mRNA vaccines are the future ways in prevention of infections. These too aims in avoiding contraction of diseases. It all come to reality from the successful researching works of the Nobel prize winners in medicine,  Dr James Allison and Dr Tasuku Honjo.

    They are not the only ones to be applauded because the researches involved many fields in medicine but their work was put into action and had successful results. Bio-markers, cell's chemistry and nano-medicine are involved. It is all so fascinating. 

    Let’s celebrate. I raise a glass of my favorite red wine. 

    Best wishes, 

    Vgama 

     

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