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Ammonium Tetrathiomolybdate (TM) Anyone?

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

I have been taking ammonium tetrathiomolybdate (TM) for approximately 6 months in an effort to fight my metastatic colon cancer in my lungs and liver. This is experimental treatment that attempts to lower your copper levels to approx. 15% of normal to slow the cancer growth, since the cancer needs copper to grow. I have succeeded in lowering my ceruloplasmin from 37 to 10 mg/dL (normal is 18-36) during this time. (I'm shooting for 7.) I also began taking Avastin and low levels of 5FU and leucovorin during this same time period and something is keeping the cancer at bay it appears, but I don't know which treatment deserves the most credit. (I had began a very pesky cough in July, 05 that has pretty much subsided.) The beauty of this treatment is that it has not been very toxic so far... (I have been in the hospital 3 different rounds from previous chemo). My white blood cell count is still normal, but my red blood cell count and hemoglobin are slightly low. There is a VERY thorough write-up about TM located at www.coldcure.com.

I would love to hear from others that are taking TM and what side effects they have experienced and whether it is helping.

This stuff is not FDA approved, but I don't have time to wait on them. All info on Avastin shows that there are at least 7 known "pathways" for cancers to get new blood supplies and Avastin blocks one of them. The cancer eventually uses one of the other pathways to get the blood supply it needs. My logic in taking TM is that pinching down on the copper helps block ALL pathways and logically should work well with the Avastin to slow the growth while the 5FU kills the little devils.

nanuk's picture
Posts: 1363
Joined: Dec 2003

I am not familiar with ammonium tetrathiomolybdate, but the copper relationship to cancer is interesting..wwhere do you get AT? Bud

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

I found out about this at the Immune Recovery Foundation in Atlanta. They do legal treatments there that are illegal or "quasi" legal in other states. After taking a cocktail of intravenous treatment there, I believe that what they do is beneficial to many people. I had read a lot about standard treatments on the internet and had NEVER come across info on this stuff since it is still experimental. As I mentioned in my note, you can get a very thorough write-up on this stuff at www.coldcure.com. You need a prescription for TM to get from a reputable source, but I get mine from Bellevue Pharmacy in Missouri (1-800-728-0288) and it definitely works in getting your ceruloplasmin (measure of copper in body) down.... It takes time to get it down though... Most info says 2-3 months to get down to 15-20%, but mine and others I know took 4-5 months. You take 6-7 pills per day (approx. every 3.5 hours) which is hard to remember, and I get it for approx. $1/pill, so figure $6-7/day until you get copper to desired low level and then supposedly you only need 3-4 pills per day or less. Jury is still out on how much it slows cancer growth, but even my oncologist has encouraged me to continue to take this stuff based on what he has read about it. (He can't legally prescribe it though.) Tetrathiomolybdate, as I understand it, is present in cows intestines and in a natural way controls how much copper they absorb from high copper grass they eat. The ammonium compound is just one way to get the tetrathiomolybdate in your system. I expect that some other "patentable" delivery system will eventually be developed by the drug companies if they think they can make $$$$ with it.

shmurciakova's picture
Posts: 910
Joined: Dec 2002

That is fascinating. Thank you for sharing it w/ us. I see a naturopathic physician in addition to my oncologist and he has me on a multi-vitamin that does not contain copper for the reasons you have described. I have not had my copper levels tested but now I am even more interested in doing so. I have another source of copper in my home - my water! I have been rather concerned about it and have put filters on my shower head as well as on the tap for drinking water, but I still am subjected to it when I do the dishes and when I take baths - which I love but have cut way back on. I wonder if you know how much of a problem copper absorbtion through the skin is? Let me know if you have any ideas on this matter. I am not dealing with active cancer but have had mets to my liver and lungs that were able to be resected thankfully. I am doing everything in my power to stay healthy and this copper issue is something that has been on my mind - particularly w/ the copper water pipes in my home.
Take it easy,

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

Some of the literature on TM does mention that you can increase your copper with copper cookware, and drinking water. The drinking water can be tested by a cheap test kit for aquariums but I have not tested our well water. I am thinking seriously of putting in a reverse osmosis system for drinking and cooking water. SInce I am on the TM, I won't absorb very much copper, even if it enters my system. Also, a lot of the organically grown food has higher levels of copper than normal. I am not convinced that organic stuff is that much better, but I do buy a lot of it because it is supposed to be pesticide, and hormone free. I have read some info about absorbing pollutants but not necessarily copper in bath and shower water (chlorine and flouride concerns) but I'm not convinced that is a cause for concern.. (who knows?)

I have read no info about the copper that said that you could absorb a significant amount through your skin. I

f you don't have active cancer, I would not be concerned with copper levels. It's good to hear from someone who has no sign of cancer after having mets to liver and lungs like I do. I'm assuming you had colon cancer. Is that correct?

scouty's picture
Posts: 1976
Joined: Apr 2004

Very interesting indeed. My naturopathic doctor did a hair anaylsis that showed my copper levels to be high. I put in a reverse osmosis water system in my kitchen quit cooking with anything that has copper in it. I take a oral chelation with calcuim to get rid of it too. I haven't had another hair analysis recently but will after the first of the year.

My naturopathic doctor says if my copper is not lower then, there may be some copper in my port.

Thanks for the fascinating information.

Lisa P.

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

I'm not familiar with the hair analysis, but there are two things that can be tested the next time you have blood drawn that tell you exactly what your copper level is. Ceruloplasmin measures a protein in your blood that is directly proportional to your copper level and the other is just a copper blood test that shows how much "free" copper is present in your blood. Use of ammonium tetrathiomolybdate (TM) began with Wilson's disease patients that had copper levels that were too high. Somehow, what regulates the copper in their bodies didn't work and copper levels get so high that it destroys the liver and will put your lights out if left unchecked. TM was like a miracle treatment for the Wilson's disease patients and only worked to get their copper levels to normal. But then someone decided to evaluate whether getting the copper levels to 15-20% of normal would slow down cancer. It is essentially copper chelation which has been tried a few times in the past on cancer with other apparently toxic methods.... The verdict on the other methods was that it had activity on cancer but did not cause a corresponding increase in longevity whatever that means....The beauty of the TM is that at least for me so far it doesn't seem to be toxic at all.

2bhealed's picture
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Thanks so much for sharing this info. I have never heard of the copper connection--iron, yes, mercury yes, but not this. Must look into my copper levels next.

I had all my amalgams removed b/c of the poisonous mercury content so I am definitely inerested in this copper thing.

Hope it works for you.

peace, emily

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

My previous notes may have been somewhat misleading. Excess copper in your system does not cause cancer, but it enables it to grow faster. Reducing the copper just cuts back on one thing in your body that is required for it to grow. This is all explained in great detail at coldcure.com under ammonium tetrathiomolybdate (TM) tab on left side of home page... this is by far the most thorough write-up on TM that I have found.

You need some copper to live. (all implications of copper in your body are not well understood) If you have no active cancer in your body, then copper levels should be kept in the normal range (18-36 mg/dL?). Your body is tricked into increasing the copper levels to feed the cancer monster's ravenous growth appetite.... People with active cancer see their copper levels increase. My ceruloplasmin (measure of protein directly related to copper in your system) went from 26 to 37 (mg/DL?)in just a couple of months this Spring when the colon cancer in my lungs was growing by leaps and bounds. So I have pinched down on one of the things that the cancer needs. Between the Avastin (which also cuts off blood supply to the cancer, but doesn't kill the cancer) and 5FU (which kills the cancer and you if you take it long enough) and the TM, something has beat it back (at least temporarily) for me.

Posts: 53
Joined: Oct 2005

Me again.. I was wondering how many amalgams you had removed? I have 14... and as you know metastatic colon cancer. I heard an old wive's tale about someone dying after having their mercury fillings removed and I dismissed that until I discussed the issue with a retired Doctor that said you get a very high amount of mercury released when you have the fillings removed. He told me to assure that you breathe through a nose-piece and not through your mouth when having the fillings removed. He also recommended that I have no more than 2 fillings replaced at a time to minimize mercury exposure.

I mentioned this to my dentist and he seemed to think this was humorous, but said he would provide a way for me to breathe through my nose if I wanted that.... (I'm thinking of having some of my fillings replaced this month.) Think of how much the dentists get exposed to this stuff...and mine seems totally unconcerned about it (obviously hasn't had to deal with cancer like us). I wonder if this is one of the reasons dentists are the worst profession for committing suicide..It's well documented that enough mercury poisoning will make you "mad as a hatter" since years ago mercury was used in hat making and many lost their minds.

Have you had any testing of mercury levels in your body before or after having the fillings replaced?

What, if any, precautions did you take when removing the fillings?

Can you tell any difference after removing the fillings? Studies show that you have 10X the amount of mercury released when chewing than when not chewing.... When I was on my vegetarian kick, it took 45 minutes to eat lunch since I chewed all that rabbit food like a cow.

So how's your battle with cancer currently going?

Peace out,

shmurciakova's picture
Posts: 910
Joined: Dec 2002

Yes, of course I had colon cancer. Otherwise I would not be on this forum! LOL. I have been NED for a year now after having 2 lung mets removed last October. Nonetheless, I am still vigilant about keeping myself that way! I still have to go in for scans and all that crap every 4 months. I can also speak for your question about Emily. She has been NED for a LONG TIME. Not sure, but I think at least 3 years although she did not have liver or lung mets. You'll have to e-mail her again directly and ask about the fillings again since this post is now way down the list.

Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2010

Does anyone still use Ammonium Tetrathiomolybdate (TM) ? I found this old post in the forum. But it seems not so many pay attention to TM? Is anyone still using Ammonium Tetrathiomolybdate (TM) for more than one year or so?

It turns to be a promising drug, and there are more and more clinical trials, that you can find on clinicaltrals.gov about it. But there seems not so much discussion about TM here...

Posts: 7
Joined: Oct 2010

Shanmanyu, I am currently on the experimental drug TM. This is only my 3rd week on the drug but after lab results last week (week 2) my copper levels have already been lowered. The doctor said it takes about 3 months to know if TM is working to stop the growth of cancer, this I will know in Jan. I will keep you updated.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007

Some info:



And a ton more: Copper

All minerals are important to our well being, and should be provided in
the proper amounts. Too much is as bad as too,little.

snommintj's picture
Posts: 602
Joined: Mar 2009

The NCI just completed a clinical trial for non small cell lung cancer. The results aren't published and may never be. I have spoken with a few people over the last couple of years that have used this in conjunction with DCA. I think a regimen of DCA, TM, and avastin would be effective and be fairly easy on the body. I intend on finding out if I am ever in the position to where nothing is working.

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007


"Copper is a trace mineral that is needed for many important body
processes. Animal studies have shown that copper is useful in
maintaining antioxidant defenses. Antioxidants block the actions
of free radicals, activated oxygen molecules that can damage
cells. While the role of copper in the cancer process is still
unclear, copper complexes have been shown to have anti-cancer
properties in laboratory studies. "

More here: Copper is a required nutrient

And: Chelation therapy, the removal of copper

"The trace element copper is vital to the healthy functioning of
organisms. Copper is used in a multitude of cellular activities
including respiration, angiogenesis, and immune responses. Like
other metals, copper homeostasis is a tightly regulated process.

Copper is transported from dietary intake through the serum and
into cells via a variety of transporters. There are a variety of
copper chaperones designed to insure that copper is sequestered
from interaction with cellular membranes, proteins, or DNA where
its properties can result in oxidative damage. However, there are
disease states in which copper transporters crucial to
homeostasis are impaired resulting in potentially toxic copper
accumulation. Wilsons and Menkes diseases are two such cases.

Wilsons disease (hepatolenticular degeneration) is an autosomal
recessive disorder resulting in extreme accumulation of copper in
the liver with deposits elsewhere in the body. Menkes is
characterized by a systemic copper deficiency (different from the
liver specificity of Wilsons disease) and is the result of an
X-linked recessive mutation in a copper transporter. Uptake of
copper is impaired due to inability to remove existing copper
from cells primarily in the small intestine. Though the causes
are dramatically different, cancer also shares a similar
diagnostic in the accumulation of copper in effected tissues.
Studies have shown greatly elevated levels of copper in cancer
tissues, and some diagnostics and treatments from Wilsons and

Menkes diseases, such as copper chelation therapy, have been used
in the treatment of cancer. Given the commonality of copper
accumulation in these diseases and that common therapies exist
between them, it may prove beneficial to study all three diseases
in light of copper homeostasis. This review will examine the
chemical nature and biological roles of copper, Wilsons and
Menkes disease and their therapies, and the use of copper related
therapies in cancer."
Credit: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15358588

Personally, I think that using this in-vitro concept for your own
in-vivo experiment to kill cancer cells, might be a bit risky.

Copper is a necessary metal, and depleting it without due cause
can lead to other problems, perhaps worse than ther cancer you fear.

Why the aversion to a thousands of year old medical science that's
proven itself to billions of people, and continues to be used in the
best of hospitals today, for a "test" of a compound that hasn't proved to
actually do anything out of a test-tube?

Trying things that won't hurt you in the process of trying them,
seems so much more sensible to me.......

(My $00.02)

Good health wishes!


Posts: 2
Joined: Aug 2015

Is anyone still using or trying TM for cancer treatment? My wife has triple negative breast cancer (TNBC) and has an interest in trying it. Her doctor has so far declined to prescribe it. Has anyone faced this problem?

Trubrit's picture
Posts: 5193
Joined: Jan 2013

The only name in this thread that I recognize is John23, and he is doing well and posts fairly regularly.  I hope he sees your post here. If he doesn't, you may want to start a new thread or maybe send him a personal message.

He is a gerat proponent of TCM.  

Welcome to the forum. 

Sue - Trubrit

John23's picture
Posts: 2140
Joined: Jan 2007



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Our dear "eswann3937" is referring to "TM" (ammonium tetrathiomolybdate), which has absolutely nothing to do with “TCM” (Traditional Chinese Medicine).

 And as I said in that very old thread (2005~2010): trying things that can do so damned much damage in an effort to treat something that may or may not kill you, is just slightly stupid.

 I bought Hydrazine Sulfate back in 2006 for around $6 per 100 tabs (I bought two), and they’re still in the medicine cabinet. I decided to use TCM and imported Chinese/Asian herbs instead.

You can learn more about Hydrazine Sulfate here:  http://scri.ngen.com/  and here: http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/  HS can be purchased from “shop.drwhitaker.com” by asking for it specifically.

 HS slows and reduces the rate that the liver converts Lactic Acid into Glucose. Since cancer cells robs the entire body of glucose and spits out lactic acid as it’s waste, the idea that slowing the process of the liver’s conversion can slow the rate of a tumor’s growth. Dr. Gold had good success with HS, but met with enormous conflict with the medical community and denounced for all his work. It’s a sad statement…

 I never tried HS, since the herbs worked for me. I haven’t taken the herbs since 2007 or 2008 (can’t remember, it’s been a long time). The herbal route is a million times safer than any chemical route. And personally, I do not believe that stifling glucose for the entire body has any benefit in attacking cancer; the body regulates glucose uptake for good cells, but can not regulate the uptake for cancer cells…… or more simply, the cancer cells will continue to rob glucose while good cells starve. It’s a no-brainer.

 The HS is kept in the cabinet as a “last resort” should TCM fail, but I do not trust the concept and won’t recommend it.

The only modality that I do trust, is TCM and the Chinese/Asian herbal modality. I have nothing but fantastic results using four thousand year’s worth of experimentation of the use of herbs and natural methods to cure ills. Western medicine has not made a dent in historical usage…. I have had nothing but bad experiences with western medicine’s pharmaceuticals.

Your body needs and requires copper, metals, nutrients, glucose, etc. Reducing substances that your body requires is not a good idea. It does not solve the problem and only compounds the problem by causing more problems. Why would anyone want to complicate one’s health problems by doing unnatural things?

 I would forget about using the  "TM" (ammonium tetrathiomolybdate). It’s an experiment one can do without.

 My “blog” here explains the herbs I used. They’re inexpensive and very safe when used as directed. The herbal broth can be used along with chemo, etc., so there’s no need to “make a choice” between one or another. I didn’t have a choice, since chemo could not begin until my surgical wound healed (in 2006) and it did not heal for nearly a year after surgery…. All the “spots” they said were cancer were almost all gone before my wound healed, with the balance gone soon afterwards of the healing. The “industry” had no explanation for the phenomena.

 The herbs addressed cancer cells specifically and built up my immune system rapidly.

 Looking back? I am glad I did not use chemo.

 Best wishes for all….

 Be well.


Trubrit's picture
Posts: 5193
Joined: Jan 2013

Miss you!  

Rest in peace, and we'll continue to learn from your life. 


Posts: 1
Joined: May 2018

I have been on TM for over 5 months. My Ceruloplasmin  levels are tested each week. I currently range anywhere between 8 and 13 percent as copper levels fluctuate week-to-week. I have no side effects to speak of. I will be having a PET scan in 2 months to see if the TM is working as well as hoped.

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