Regardless of your political philosophies, please answer one or all of these questions

snommintj
snommintj Member Posts: 601
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
I was scheduled to have a procedure in a hospital in greenville sc. The machine performing the procedure was purchased with federal grant money. The price of this procedure was going to be $200,000. During prep for this procedure I was eliminated as a candidate and did not have it.
I am scheduled to get the exact same procedure in guatemala on tuesday. The machine performing the procedure costs 35% more than the one in Greenville SC and was purchased privately. The cost of this procedure is $15,000.

Why does the Greenville procedure cost $185,000 more considering it is being performed on a free machine?

Another question you can tackle.

The total cost of malpractice contributed less than 2% to the overall cost of health care in 2004 according to the GAO and Congressional Budget Office. Why then do doctors often pay 15-25% of their income on malpractice insurance? This has a one word answer.

How do we get our health care costs in line with what the rest of the world is paying?
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Comments

  • msccolon
    msccolon Member Posts: 1,917 Member
    #2
    how do you hear about the procedures in other countries?
    I agree with you 100%, there's something off in the way things are priced in our healthcare system. That a machine that was funded by OUR tax dollars costs so much more than one funded by private money is just outrageous.
    mary
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #3
    Wich procedure is that?
    Thks!
  • tanstaafl
    tanstaafl Member Posts: 1,313 Member
    #4
    voting with our wallets, and feet
    "How do we get our health care costs in line with what the rest of the world is paying?"

    We, as individuals, have to shop elsewhere for both better price AND performance. The US medical industry is protected and mis-regulated from a knowledgeable consumer point of view, so we miss out on some of the best and most cost effective technologies, from elsewhere.

    e.g. I bought medicine for an elderly parent last year. Clearly effective, available in Germany in the mid70s, it was only FDA approved ca 2002, now commonly used in US. No toxicity or such issues. Who/what was really protected for 26+ yrs?

    Outside the US, my wife has a prescription that uses two drugs, ca 25 and 35 years old, respectively, that cost ca $1400 for 12 months, one drug still unavailable in the US. IMHO, the best prescription for patients like her. The US, not-even-close-equivalent treatments, would cost $70,000-$150,000 for six months, cause more side effects, and have much lower survival. I expect the US to nominally catch up in 5-10 yrs, but try to keep the price points.

    US regulations and politics have eliminated many forms of development and competition, as well as created unchecked instruments for wealth and power transfer using insurance and great expectations.
  • goodwitch
    goodwitch Member Posts: 12
    #5
    guatamala
    my daughter was diagnosed with a non cancerous tumor of the femur whilst over there for the summer, she had a full color MRI there and flew home, Shands docs in Fl (big teaching hosp) said it was one of the best he had ever seen. Cost $800 paid by her travel insurance, downside is the for most Guatemalans it is completely out of reach financially.Many people use Thailand also...oh, and the doc there was trained in California
    Glenda
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    #6
    Doubt it can happen
    eliminate greed in the American business culture
  • coolvdub
    coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
    #7
    goodwitch said:

    guatamala
    my daughter was diagnosed with a non cancerous tumor of the femur whilst over there for the summer, she had a full color MRI there and flew home, Shands docs in Fl (big teaching hosp) said it was one of the best he had ever seen. Cost $800 paid by her travel insurance, downside is the for most Guatemalans it is completely out of reach financially.Many people use Thailand also...oh, and the doc there was trained in California
    Glenda

    We need an uprising

    What it all boils down to in my opinion is greed. Now I'm an American and love my country, but greed and looking out for number one have turned this country into what it is now. Everybody is always in such a hurry to get someplace first. I notice this on the roads every weekend while I'm out and about. I could be doing 100 mph and somebody would want to pass me. I am trying to learn to just let it go and not let it get to me.

    Also we are regulating ourselves to death literally. The FDA is to slow and a typical bueracratic dinosuar. It truly is sad when a person such as yourself has to travel to Guatemala to have a procedure done that can be done here in the US. If the machine was purchased with grant money, which means we all paid for it, then why a $185,000 dollar markup on the procedure. They must have built palace to house this machine I suppose. That might drive the cost up. How about the oath the Docs take to do no harm, I guess if you get wiped out financially that is no harm, Huh!

    We need to get back to basics and stop trying to fix the worlds problems. We have plenty on our own soil. I guess the saying charity starts at home has been lost along the way.


    Don
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731
    #8
    greed
    Producers of goods and services charge as much as they can get. They don't set their prices to be fair. That's how capitalism works. I don't understand how you folks can have grown up in the US (most of you, I guess) and not have learned this. It's so odd to hear these repeated cries of Greed, Greed. Of course there's greed. Where were you all in the last century when capitalism finally triumphed and socialism died? Remember East Germany? The USSR? Communist China? Those were our efforts to make societies based on fairness.

    --Greg
  • KathiM
    KathiM Member Posts: 8,028 Member
    #9
    I broke my arm in The Netherlands....
    Total cost, X-rays, cast, doctors, PT....$496.

    BUT

    I pay $100 to fill the gas tank in my 4-cylinder Ford-based product. 12 gallon tank, I think.

    Half of the cost is for the gas, the other half is tax to support their national health.

    Not that I agree with what's happening in the States, but the whole picture must be viewed...how DOES Guatamala afford a machine, even at the reduced price? Could be on the backs of the citizens...

    As far as the malpractice: my beau is a doctor, so I have a bit of insight: Because the lawsuits that make it, by yes, greedy citizens, are HUGE payouts...and many times for frivolus suits...remember the McDonald's hot coffee suit that that lady won millions, even tho she was not permanently harmed? Same thing happens with medical suits....

    IMHO, ('and then the fight started....'....lol!)

    Hugs, Kathi
  • Buzzard
    Buzzard Member Posts: 3,043 Member
    #10
    KathiM said:

    I broke my arm in The Netherlands....
    Total cost, X-rays, cast, doctors, PT....$496.

    BUT

    I pay $100 to fill the gas tank in my 4-cylinder Ford-based product. 12 gallon tank, I think.

    Half of the cost is for the gas, the other half is tax to support their national health.

    Not that I agree with what's happening in the States, but the whole picture must be viewed...how DOES Guatamala afford a machine, even at the reduced price? Could be on the backs of the citizens...

    As far as the malpractice: my beau is a doctor, so I have a bit of insight: Because the lawsuits that make it, by yes, greedy citizens, are HUGE payouts...and many times for frivolus suits...remember the McDonald's hot coffee suit that that lady won millions, even tho she was not permanently harmed? Same thing happens with medical suits....

    IMHO, ('and then the fight started....'....lol!)

    Hugs, Kathi

    Try this...and you Canadians can tell me if this is true.....
    That the price of a Neulasta that is between $5ooo-$8ooo here is $60 in Canada...True or False...I know that here the cost is true...I would like to know for certain about Canadian cost...
  • Nana b
    Nana b Member Posts: 3,030 Member
    #11
    Buzzard said:

    Try this...and you Canadians can tell me if this is true.....
    That the price of a Neulasta that is between $5ooo-$8ooo here is $60 in Canada...True or False...I know that here the cost is true...I would like to know for certain about Canadian cost...

    in and out of net work
    My liver resection charge was 150,000, but the insurance company contracted price was 42,000. The people who don't go to in network doctors actually cost the insurance company the 150,000, which is crazy. The people with the money out there refuse to goo to an in network doctor. Go figure!
  • abrub
    abrub Member Posts: 2,174 Member
    #12
    Nana b said:

    in and out of net work
    My liver resection charge was 150,000, but the insurance company contracted price was 42,000. The people who don't go to in network doctors actually cost the insurance company the 150,000, which is crazy. The people with the money out there refuse to goo to an in network doctor. Go figure!

    When you go out of network
    the insurance company only reimburses based on a percentage of the insurance company's approved rate.

    Thus, if you go out of network for a procedure that the hospital charges $150,000 for, and insurance states that the value is $42,000, then your reimbursement will be a percentage of that $42,000, not the full $150K. You would be responsible for 100% of the difference between the insurance company rate (x% of $42,000) and the billed amount ($150,000), or a minimum out of pocket expense of $108,000 before insurance.

    Yes, insurers want you to go in-network, and you'll save because of the contracted rates. The difference that people coming in from out-of-network helps cover the uninsured, and also helps the hospital stay viable, as in many cases, the contracted rates do not cover actual costs.
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #13
    Buzzard said:

    Try this...and you Canadians can tell me if this is true.....
    That the price of a Neulasta that is between $5ooo-$8ooo here is $60 in Canada...True or False...I know that here the cost is true...I would like to know for certain about Canadian cost...

    Each shot or a case?
    Buzz.
  • AnneCan
    AnneCan Member Posts: 3,673 Member
    #14
    Buzzard said:

    Try this...and you Canadians can tell me if this is true.....
    That the price of a Neulasta that is between $5ooo-$8ooo here is $60 in Canada...True or False...I know that here the cost is true...I would like to know for certain about Canadian cost...

    I`ll try to look into this
    I have never had one, but I will see what I can find out.
  • Kerry S
    Kerry S Member Posts: 606 Member
    #15
    If greed equals profits
    If greed equals profits, I love profits on my investments and damn well expect them.

    Kerry – the conservative
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #16
    Buzzard said:

    Try this...and you Canadians can tell me if this is true.....
    That the price of a Neulasta that is between $5ooo-$8ooo here is $60 in Canada...True or False...I know that here the cost is true...I would like to know for certain about Canadian cost...

    Buzz Neulasta here 1000€ each shot .
    what a difference !.
  • pepebcn
    pepebcn Member Posts: 6,331 Member
    #17
    Kerry S said:

    If greed equals profits
    If greed equals profits, I love profits on my investments and damn well expect them.

    Kerry – the conservative

    up
    up
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    #18
    Kerry S said:

    If greed equals profits
    If greed equals profits, I love profits on my investments and damn well expect them.

    Kerry – the conservative

    So then Kerry,
    it's tough beans for the people who are supposed to be helped by new medications. It's the shareholders who matter, not patients?
  • Kerry S
    Kerry S Member Posts: 606 Member
    #19
    PhillieG said:

    So then Kerry,
    it's tough beans for the people who are supposed to be helped by new medications. It's the shareholders who matter, not patients?

    shareholders
    Phil my friend,

    No shareholders - no company - no drugs at all. Hey we get hosed every 60 days as the scary old woman gets Remicade every 60 days. Our copay is $400 per treatment.

    Kerry
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    #20
    Kerry S said:

    shareholders
    Phil my friend,

    No shareholders - no company - no drugs at all. Hey we get hosed every 60 days as the scary old woman gets Remicade every 60 days. Our copay is $400 per treatment.

    Kerry

    Bottom Line?
    Is a company in business just to make money for shareholders or are they in business to help people? Or is it possible for a company to not make the billions in profit that they often do make and still help people too? Would hundreds of millions be enough and then possibly have lower drug prices? How does Canada sell medications at a fraction of the cost of what US companies sell them for?
    The whole model is dysfunctional (IMO).
  • ADKer
    ADKer Member Posts: 147
    #21
    pepebcn said:

    up
    up

    Very difficult question
    I have absolutely no love for insurance companies. They are amoral, greedy, profit making machines.

    Hospitals and drug companies are more complicated. I believe that Avastin is about $4000 for a 10 minute infusion. However, I have insurance that covers the cost. I want the drug companies to make money on their products so that they will have an incentive to develop new drugs that I may benefit from.

    A non-profit hospital can be inefficient, etc but I don't believe there are usually people with exorbitant salaries at these hospitals. My liver resection at Sloan-Kettering cost $56,000+/- for the hospital bill and about $25,000 for the doctors. Sloan is not a participating provider with my insurance, so that was the cost with or without insurance. Despite the high costs of being located in NYC, I thought the cost was reasonable, probably because they do the procedure alot and are fairly efficient. Also, I had no complications.

    The requirement in the new healthcare law that a high % - I believe it is 85% - of premiums must be spent on benefits to policy holders is probably a good idea in my opinion. Limiting profits of drug companies, or manufacturers of high tech equipment, is more difficult. I wonder if the procedure in another country is violating a patent, not that I begrudge anyone who has found a way of obtaining the medical care he needs.

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