Just talked to Dr. and she gave me 25-30%?

lisa42 said:

don't like statistics either
Hi Rita,

I'm one who does not bury my head and refuse to listen to statistics... I've read them and heard them most definitely (I'm also stage IV and have been since my diagnosis in 8/07). BUT... I've had two different oncologists and neither one of them has ever told me my chances of survival or how much longer they thought I have to live. My first onc never did and he took the very optimisitic approach of "we're going to cure this". He may have not personally believed it himself at the time- I don't know- but his positive "fight like hell" approach to it gave me the adrenaline I needed to positively fight with all I had in me at the time. I know that, personally, (even though I read statistics and knew how dire my stage IV diagnosis was) that if I had actually heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth "you have x amount of time left to live", that it would have killed the fight in me. When I changed oncologists after two years, I told my new onc at my first appt w/ him that I didn't want to hear any statistics or timelines given to me. I told him I know I can die from this and my husband and I have talked about it quite realistically, but I just needed him to be positive and upbeat for me, while still being realistic about treatments. His reply to me was that he never tells his patients how long he thinks they have left unless they specifically ask him to. Even then, he said he always qualifies the statistics and prognosis with "but everyone is different and only God knows how long someone is going to live & I'm just here to do everything I can to help my patients". I really like him.
Since my cancer has shown recently that I can't go off it even for a couple of weeks without starting to grow, I realize that I have to continue treatment forever and that, barring a miracle (and I DO believe in miracles & know of people who have had them), it is likely to take me at some point when I can no longer find a treatment or clinical trial that works for me. BUT... I have been sustained for over three years now without it spreading to any additional places in my body (other than the liver and lungs, which it was in upon diagnosis), and I have no symptoms or pain at all from the cancer. People still tell me that I look pretty good and they'd never know I have cancer or anything at all just by looking at me.

Personally, I'm going to keep on fighting, keep on researching everything possible for treatment (including alternative type treatments in addition to the traditional and cutting edge stuff) & I will just trust in my belief that the Lord Jesus has sustained me and kept me strong so far for a reason.

Blessings to you and I just said a prayer for you for your surgery this Friday. Please do let us know how it went as soon as you're able to post.

Take care and try to stay as upbeat as possible-
Lisa

Creation of "stats"
Is every person who has cancer counted or just those diagnosed as such? How many die of a cancer that were not Dxed as such?

Is everyone Dxed with cancer who dies die from something other than the cancer taken into account, that is ,not included in survival stats? Or once Dxed with cancer, no matter what cause of death is, death is attributed to cancer?

Stats obviously are always after the fact; that is, they have tobe collected, analyzed, correlations explored, etc--how long after the collection of figures are stats generated?

Supposedly, by the time most of us are Dxed with CRC we are already stage 3 or 4 where the odds are already stacked against us. What percent of those with CRC have joined this site?

Stats do, I feel, serve a purpose nonetheless, as they give a "general" idea of what you're up against. As for me, I'm in the forty-four percent thats gonna make it!!!!

lisa42 said:

don't like statistics either
Hi Rita,

I'm one who does not bury my head and refuse to listen to statistics... I've read them and heard them most definitely (I'm also stage IV and have been since my diagnosis in 8/07). BUT... I've had two different oncologists and neither one of them has ever told me my chances of survival or how much longer they thought I have to live. My first onc never did and he took the very optimisitic approach of "we're going to cure this". He may have not personally believed it himself at the time- I don't know- but his positive "fight like hell" approach to it gave me the adrenaline I needed to positively fight with all I had in me at the time. I know that, personally, (even though I read statistics and knew how dire my stage IV diagnosis was) that if I had actually heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth "you have x amount of time left to live", that it would have killed the fight in me. When I changed oncologists after two years, I told my new onc at my first appt w/ him that I didn't want to hear any statistics or timelines given to me. I told him I know I can die from this and my husband and I have talked about it quite realistically, but I just needed him to be positive and upbeat for me, while still being realistic about treatments. His reply to me was that he never tells his patients how long he thinks they have left unless they specifically ask him to. Even then, he said he always qualifies the statistics and prognosis with "but everyone is different and only God knows how long someone is going to live & I'm just here to do everything I can to help my patients". I really like him.
Since my cancer has shown recently that I can't go off it even for a couple of weeks without starting to grow, I realize that I have to continue treatment forever and that, barring a miracle (and I DO believe in miracles & know of people who have had them), it is likely to take me at some point when I can no longer find a treatment or clinical trial that works for me. BUT... I have been sustained for over three years now without it spreading to any additional places in my body (other than the liver and lungs, which it was in upon diagnosis), and I have no symptoms or pain at all from the cancer. People still tell me that I look pretty good and they'd never know I have cancer or anything at all just by looking at me.

Personally, I'm going to keep on fighting, keep on researching everything possible for treatment (including alternative type treatments in addition to the traditional and cutting edge stuff) & I will just trust in my belief that the Lord Jesus has sustained me and kept me strong so far for a reason.

Blessings to you and I just said a prayer for you for your surgery this Friday. Please do let us know how it went as soon as you're able to post.

Take care and try to stay as upbeat as possible-
Lisa

100% with you
Lisa l like your post !
Hugs!

lisa42 said:

don't like statistics either
Hi Rita,

I'm one who does not bury my head and refuse to listen to statistics... I've read them and heard them most definitely (I'm also stage IV and have been since my diagnosis in 8/07). BUT... I've had two different oncologists and neither one of them has ever told me my chances of survival or how much longer they thought I have to live. My first onc never did and he took the very optimisitic approach of "we're going to cure this". He may have not personally believed it himself at the time- I don't know- but his positive "fight like hell" approach to it gave me the adrenaline I needed to positively fight with all I had in me at the time. I know that, personally, (even though I read statistics and knew how dire my stage IV diagnosis was) that if I had actually heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth "you have x amount of time left to live", that it would have killed the fight in me. When I changed oncologists after two years, I told my new onc at my first appt w/ him that I didn't want to hear any statistics or timelines given to me. I told him I know I can die from this and my husband and I have talked about it quite realistically, but I just needed him to be positive and upbeat for me, while still being realistic about treatments. His reply to me was that he never tells his patients how long he thinks they have left unless they specifically ask him to. Even then, he said he always qualifies the statistics and prognosis with "but everyone is different and only God knows how long someone is going to live & I'm just here to do everything I can to help my patients". I really like him.
Since my cancer has shown recently that I can't go off it even for a couple of weeks without starting to grow, I realize that I have to continue treatment forever and that, barring a miracle (and I DO believe in miracles & know of people who have had them), it is likely to take me at some point when I can no longer find a treatment or clinical trial that works for me. BUT... I have been sustained for over three years now without it spreading to any additional places in my body (other than the liver and lungs, which it was in upon diagnosis), and I have no symptoms or pain at all from the cancer. People still tell me that I look pretty good and they'd never know I have cancer or anything at all just by looking at me.

Personally, I'm going to keep on fighting, keep on researching everything possible for treatment (including alternative type treatments in addition to the traditional and cutting edge stuff) & I will just trust in my belief that the Lord Jesus has sustained me and kept me strong so far for a reason.

Blessings to you and I just said a prayer for you for your surgery this Friday. Please do let us know how it went as soon as you're able to post.

Take care and try to stay as upbeat as possible-
Lisa

Lisa42
As always, you are truly inspirational. One thing is for sure IMO, without a positive attitude it would be very difficult to beat this beast. You have the right attitude in spades!

1:1,000,000 = likelihood of me having appendix cancer
And that's what I had (stage 4 - mets to ovary, periotoneum). One dr gave me 3 years - he's wrong! Ignore the stats - everything is 50-50; either you have it or you don't. There's no reason to assume you're not going to be in the favorable 25-30%

Plus current stats regarding survival are based on older treatments. NO ONE CAN GIVE YOU AN EXPIRATION DATE.

John23 said:

Statistic stuff....


The statistics represent the odds of dying of the type of cancer
you have. There is no set "death time line"; the statistics only indicate
the percentage of people with your type of cancer that die from that
type of cancer.

My stage 3c/4 colon cancer, with 7 out of 27 nodes involved,
equated to a 26% survival rate for those that do nothing after
surgery, and a 28% survival rate for those that do chemo or
radiation after surgery. Those statistics are the same now, as
they were in the 1970s; Nothing has changed. The statistics are
accurate. The amount of deaths here due to colon cancer, easily
reflect the accuracy of the statistics.

I am amazed at the number of individuals that refuse to believe
that cancer is a terminal disease. They accept MS and a host of
other diseases as being "incurable" and "terminal", but not cancer?

The best way to fight any battle, is to know your enemy better
than you know your friends. Know the odds of beating this thing,
and do whatever you can to attempt to beat those odds.

But ignoring the odds and being complacent to old drugs, old chemistry,
and physicians that refuse to try different approaches to handle your
problem, is not the way to win against the odds.

My friend refused to weigh the odds. He was stage one, and within
two years, went to stage four with a six to nine month prognosis.
His family had a tough time sorting things out, since he never took
the time to get things in order. The items he cared about, went to
thrift shops instead of family he wanted things to go to.

Take cancer seriously. Pay attention to the physician that's trying
to explain to you, just how serious your cancer is.

You may beat the odds, or you may not.... But at least know
what you're up against.

Better health to us all!

John

l agree even been Stage l talking about cancer you better put
order in your things ! l agree too that statistics are accurate but which ones? the ones of MD Anderson are valid to you?
Cheers amigo mio!

5-Year Survival Rates Are Not the Whole Picture
Life is terminal. Just my thought first. And as Rob in Vancouver used to say "you haven't survived cancer until you die from something else".

That being said, here is some info I found on 5-Year Survival Rates that I found interesting:
"To come up with 5-year survival rates, health experts need to study people who were treated for their cancer at least 5 years ago. Colon cancer treatments have changed and continue to change very quickly.

Some treatments that are used now, such as targeted therapies, weren't available 5 years ago. Also remember that survival rates can include people who were diagnosed with colon cancer, but who later died of non-cancer-related causes.

This means that the 5-year survival rates likely will look worse than what your 5-year survival rate actually is.

It is important to remember that survival rates are estimates. A 5-year survival rate can never predict what will happen in any one person's case. Other things, such as how the cancer responds to treatment and the genetics of the cancer cells, will affect the chances of survival.

If you decide to read about 5-year survival rates for your stage of colon cancer, be sure to discuss what you learn with your doctor. He or she can help you understand how these numbers might apply to your specific situation.

5-Year Survival Rates by Stage of Colon Cancer

Different systems are used to stage colon cancer. The staging system that is used can affect how the 5-year survival rates look.

The survival rates published by the American Cancer Society (ACS) appear lower than those listed by some other sources. This may be due to the fact that the ACS rates are "observed rates." This means that they include people who died of non-colon cancer-related diseases and conditions after diagnosis, such as heart disease.

5-Year Survival Rates Published by ACS

Stage I: 74%
Stage IIA: 67%
Stage IIB: 59%
Stage IIC: 37%
Stage IIIA: 73%
Stage IIIB: 46%
Stage IIIC: 28%
Stage IV: 6%"

So this takes into consideration people who died of something NOT related to cancer and also, many therapies have come out in the past 5 years that are not taken into consideration. I've had the opportunity to use 3 treatments that were either not around or were not widely used in the 6 1/2 years I've been dealing with stage IV colon cancer. So apparently I beat the 94% chance that I'd be dead over a year and a half ago?

Stats are generalizations, I do not think that if I started this journey thinking I ONLY had a 6% chance of being around 5 years later that it would have done me any good at all. That is the main reason that I take all of those statistics with a grain of salt. I would focus on getting good treatment by good doctors that you feel comfortable with and the same goes for the treatment you receive.

-phil

Stats
I don't see why everyone gets so riled up about stats. They are what they are. Information has been gathered and put out there to look at.

The time to really worry is if you are given zero %. Until then SOMEONE has to be in the survivor stats. I'm always in the low stats for everything. 1/10 of a percent chance of a port getting infected at placement or removal. I got both. 1% chance of a lung puncture during port insertion - and for my third port I got that one. A rare syndrom with oxaliplatin that affects less than 1/2 %. A PE, which I forgot the stats on, but chances of that are low too. So I figure as a Stage IV cancer survivor I'll just keep on being in the lower end of the stats. That makes me the survivor!

Even if the stats say 70%, someone is in the other 30%. You'll end up where you'll end up. The healthier you are otherwise the better your chances of ending up on the side you want.

I hope your hysterectomy went well. I had one for cervical cancer when all other treatments kept failing. It really wasn't that bad. I'm hoping the same for you.

PhillieG said:

Facts based on a wide group of patients
They are facts based on a wide group of patients with varying medical conditions and circumstances. Maybe that constitutes a fact to you. To me it's a generalization because the statistics take into consideration patients of different ages (like someone who is 95 when diagnosed and may die from a heart attack) and also if they die from getting hit by a bus 3 years after being diagnosed, it counts as not surviving more than 5 years with cancer. They did not die from cancer, they got run over by a bus. You don't think that skews the numbers at all?

I guess you could just count them as dead bodies but to really be accurate the "how they died" should be factored in. I do not believe that for every 100 people who are diagnosed with stage IV colon cancer, only 6 of them will be around 5 years after diagnosis.

The article I got my information from said this too "It is important to remember that survival rates are estimates." Obviously you do not have to believe what the article states. It's just more information on a subject that has hundreds of variables in it. I think it's impossible to get exact numbers when dealing with cancer. It's just the nature of the beast. So the estimate is a fact but it's based on numbers that are not exact.
-p

Actually Phil...


If a person dies of a chemo related problem, like a heart attack,
it is not charged off as a cancer death.

Likewise, if I have colon cancer, and I die of a cancer produced
by the chemotherapy drugs or radiation, it is not charged off
to my original cancer, it is charged off to an unrelated cancer.

My friend is in the last stages now. I haven't talked to her in a
month, so I'm not sure if she's still alive. There were no signs of
her original cancer! She is dying because the radiation treatments
have totally destroyed her innards. She describes it as "melting"
from the inside out. There is nothing they can do for her at this stage.

She says that her vagina is like an empty tunnel; there is nothing inside,
but smelly gel type matter oozes out. Her physician told her that it is
her body disintegrating, that she is seeing. There is absolutely nothing
anyone can do for her.

When she finally goes, it will not be from her original cancer,
that..... will be claimed as "cured".

She will have died (if she already hasn't), from complications of therapy.
And that, Phil, does not get charged against the industry as a failure.

After all...... she didn't die of cancer.

The statistics are accurate, and they haven't changed in over 40 years.

People shouldn't be arguing of the validity, they should be outraged!

Contributions don't go to new developments, they go to the continuation
of old medicine, renamed, re-formulated, and re-licensed.

If we don't wake up and demand better, we will continue to see
deaths occur. All this running and contributing just perpetuates the
industry that cares more about the dollar, than life.

Take care.

John

PhillieG said:

A Numbers Game
There are so many polls and statistics in the world that for every one that is posted I'm sure you can find one that shows the opposite results. If people want to treat them like they're written in stone that's fine.

I agree that more should be done to fight cancer. If cancer were treated like people treat high school/college/professional football, more money would be thrown at it for sure.

Until many, many more politicians,millionaires and billionaires
CEOs,CFOs,etc come down with cancer too,maybe then more money will be devoted to eradicating it or allowing for a decent life for those with it. Thats where the money is, isn't it?

And then, maybe the responsible parties will cease producing cancer causing products......How many know that most soy products have been genetically modified already? That the FDA has already approved the production and commercialization of genetically modified foods, esp since the department that supposedly deals with the safety of these "freaks of nature " (my def)had previously worked at Monsanto?

coloCan said:

Until many, many more politicians,millionaires and billionaires
CEOs,CFOs,etc come down with cancer too,maybe then more money will be devoted to eradicating it or allowing for a decent life for those with it. Thats where the money is, isn't it?

And then, maybe the responsible parties will cease producing cancer causing products......How many know that most soy products have been genetically modified already? That the FDA has already approved the production and commercialization of genetically modified foods, esp since the department that supposedly deals with the safety of these "freaks of nature " (my def)had previously worked at Monsanto?

Monsanto is like
SOYLENT GREEN...
"It's people..." (or Franken-food)