Just talked to Dr. and she gave me 25-30%?

chicoturner

Hi Rita! When I was dx in
Hi Rita! When I was dx in 3/08 it was thought that I had ovarian cancer because the tumors in my ovaries were so large they blocked the colon pictures! I had a complete hyst. and a colon resection (that was the surprise part!) and was re dx with colon cancer! I haven't been NED yet, but.....darn it I am doing well! I just keep taking treatments and fighting! When I asked my Doc about the odds I had read about (8%) He said He didn't read the numbers and he dealt with people! He said the numbers just don't tell the whole story! I loved him for that! Perhaps your Doc. should read some of these post and be encouraged himself! Best to you! You keep fighting, you have lots to do yet! Jean

John23

Stats, hope, and reality checks, oh my.


I feel ill when I hear things like "forget the stats", "let's do an NED dance",
and "things are different now".

I feel even more ill, when I see people get so much hope from
well-meaning people, and later get so totally blind-sided, because they
didn't take the statistics seriously.

Cancer is considered a terminal disease; It is considered that for
a reason. It's not hype, or a selling pitch, it's a condition that there
presently is no cure for.

Some here have oncologists that are treating cancer as a chronic disease,
and in doing so, are greatly extending the lives of some of their patients.

Others have oncologists that are throwing everything at their patients
in an effort to kill every cancer cell, regardless if it's possible to do so,
or not.

Some get sick for months and months of terribly aggressive treatment,
only to have a reoccurrence...... and some only have a few treatments,
and go for years and years without any sign of cancer.

Some of us have used alternative medicine since surgery....

But we're -all- in the same boat; not one of us have any guarantee
that we won't suffer a reoccurrence, or that we will not die of cancer.

Are the statistics accurate? Yes they are, they are -very- accurate.
The actual statistics have not changed for years. The same percentage
of people with various cancers die of cancer sometime after diagnosis.

"More people are living longer after their initial diagnosis".

A Norweigian study indicated that the statement is correct, but
only because new technology is providing the ability to locate
and identify cancer earlier. The same percentage of people are
dying from those cancers however, so statistically, the numbers
remain the same. I.E.: If you had a 25% chance of surviving colon
cancer stage III 20 years ago, you still have the same odds of
surviving it today.

I would pay attention to the statistics, and be aware that I may or
may not be one of the percentage that doesn't make it.

It's great to have hope, and it's great to feel "positive", but all
the great, positive feelings in the world can't cure cancer.

You've been diagnosed, you were given the stats; take the time to
prepare for the finale' while you have time. Prepare your family.
Make out wills and take care of legal issues. Yes, it sounds morbid
and scary, but you are now facing mortality. It's time to wake up,
not bury your head.

I'm not typing this to be mean, I'm typing it because I care.

You may live your full life span in spite of cancer, but take the time
now...... not later..... to be grateful for your life and those around you.


It -is- that serious.


John

CherylHutch

Anything to do with a "number"...
... toss it out the window

Oncologists, doctors, researchers, etc... all of them go by the book and by the "numbers". Potion A works for X number of people because the results were Z% did well and Y% didn't respond at all. Potion B works for S number of people between the ages of 60-85 because T number of people survived, the rest died of old age, or possibly cancer.

The results of the above show that only 25-30% of people will survive Colon Cancer if it has spread to the ovaries.

Ok class.... in the above example, where do you all fit? Miss Rita? Let's see... you are not between the ages of 60-85, you are still very much alive, we have no idea if you are going to respond to Potion A or not.... pretty much, I'm sorry to say that you do not qualify for the statistic of an only 25-30% survival rate. You fail for not being exactly the same as the "trial group" that the statistic was based on But hey... SOMEONE would have fallen into that group, and maybe a LOT of someones... but it doesn't appear that you do

So you can see how statistics can be so skewed depending on where they came from. Of course they are based on real people with real particulars at a particular period in time, depending on the kinds of treatment available. But the stats were gathered many years ago and by the time they are published they are already 5 years old... so you, as the newly diagnosed person, have no idea what these stats are based on.

I was told the chances of me surviving 5 years was close to 0%. In March, 2007, I was told to put my affairs in order because the "prognosis" (based on stats and patterns) was 2 months - 24 months maximum. I was in SHOCK when I was told that. I felt exactly the same at that time as I do today.... healthy, energetic and like I was in a fishbowl. 24 months ended in March 2009. I'm still here, I'm still energetic, I'm not ready to give up yet... and yes, some tumours have decided to start growing so we are batting them down with more treatment, which I found out tonight is working. If we can get them shrunk down a bit more, then chances are I will get another couple of years where I don't need treatment... before one or two of them start acting up again... in which case we will treat them.

It's called "Living with cancer". As a Stage 4 colon cancer person, I will never be able to say I'm cancer-free. I aim to be stable, or heaven forbid, have the tumours shrunk down to where they can't spot anything, in which case I can say I'm NED (no evidence of disease) but I'll still have cancer.... just not big enough to see on our scans and whatnot. But hey, I can live with that.

Had I never been detected for having this nasty disease, hence didn't have it treated.... ya, I believe I would not have lasted 5 years. Heck, I probably would not have lasted 6 months and I would have become a statistic

Cheryl

PGLGreg

ritaclough said:

Oh I get it so its a
Oh I get it so its a generalization. One that goes for all stage 4 patients and once it metastasis it's considered stage 4? She also said they will be ordering a pet scan. They are pretty certain this is a recurrence and wow what I wouldn't give to find out different.....Friday is surgery

Yes.
"Oh I get it so its a generalization. One that goes for all stage 4 patients and once it metastasis it's considered stage 4?"

Yes, that's my best understanding of the situation.

--Greg

CherylHutch

PGLGreg said:

Yes.
"Oh I get it so its a generalization. One that goes for all stage 4 patients and once it metastasis it's considered stage 4?"

Yes, that's my best understanding of the situation.

--Greg

Yes.
Mine too. They seem to Group Stage 4's all together in one big club, even though all our stories and stats are very different. But Stage 4 is Stage 4 as far as the textbooks are concerned

Cheryl

herdizziness

I Yi Yi
So they gave you a number? They did the same with me, go home die, was my number and I'm stage IV. Still here still kicking some royal cancer arse, my death date came and went, and I wasn't the least bit sorry to see the back of it!!!!
Don't believe the stats, believe in yourself, your body, your willingness to fight this disease, not only in body, but in mind and spirit!!!!
Screw the odds, they've been wrong many, many times before.
Good thing I wasn't at your appt. with you, I would have gotten out of the chair and asked the Doc, what the H E Double hockey sticks, did you just say??? Are you insane???? How dare you????, but then that's just me!!!! And I'm betting your glad I wasn't there, you'd be looking for a new onc by now, I'm sure.
Just Honey, just DON'T LISTEN to percentages and dates, I did, and gave away my best stuff, which now I truly regret!!!! Stupid me, listened to my doc.
Stay strong, fight hard, not only survive, BUT LIVE your life.
Winter Marie

AnnaLeigh

CherylHutch said:

Anything to do with a "number"...
... toss it out the window

Oncologists, doctors, researchers, etc... all of them go by the book and by the "numbers". Potion A works for X number of people because the results were Z% did well and Y% didn't respond at all. Potion B works for S number of people between the ages of 60-85 because T number of people survived, the rest died of old age, or possibly cancer.

The results of the above show that only 25-30% of people will survive Colon Cancer if it has spread to the ovaries.

Ok class.... in the above example, where do you all fit? Miss Rita? Let's see... you are not between the ages of 60-85, you are still very much alive, we have no idea if you are going to respond to Potion A or not.... pretty much, I'm sorry to say that you do not qualify for the statistic of an only 25-30% survival rate. You fail for not being exactly the same as the "trial group" that the statistic was based on But hey... SOMEONE would have fallen into that group, and maybe a LOT of someones... but it doesn't appear that you do

So you can see how statistics can be so skewed depending on where they came from. Of course they are based on real people with real particulars at a particular period in time, depending on the kinds of treatment available. But the stats were gathered many years ago and by the time they are published they are already 5 years old... so you, as the newly diagnosed person, have no idea what these stats are based on.

I was told the chances of me surviving 5 years was close to 0%. In March, 2007, I was told to put my affairs in order because the "prognosis" (based on stats and patterns) was 2 months - 24 months maximum. I was in SHOCK when I was told that. I felt exactly the same at that time as I do today.... healthy, energetic and like I was in a fishbowl. 24 months ended in March 2009. I'm still here, I'm still energetic, I'm not ready to give up yet... and yes, some tumours have decided to start growing so we are batting them down with more treatment, which I found out tonight is working. If we can get them shrunk down a bit more, then chances are I will get another couple of years where I don't need treatment... before one or two of them start acting up again... in which case we will treat them.

It's called "Living with cancer". As a Stage 4 colon cancer person, I will never be able to say I'm cancer-free. I aim to be stable, or heaven forbid, have the tumours shrunk down to where they can't spot anything, in which case I can say I'm NED (no evidence of disease) but I'll still have cancer.... just not big enough to see on our scans and whatnot. But hey, I can live with that.

Had I never been detected for having this nasty disease, hence didn't have it treated.... ya, I believe I would not have lasted 5 years. Heck, I probably would not have lasted 6 months and I would have become a statistic

Cheryl

Important point Cheryl
I like the way you painted a real picture of how anyone could very well be the person who falls into the percentages of patients who do outlast and outlive the statistics. If there is not at least a small measure of hope that you will overcome the percentages then it surely will not happen.

Statistics are made from combining the worst cases and the best cases. Doctors don't know which one you will fall in. And they won't admit they don't know.

KathiM

I was given less than a 30% chance, 6 months....
Now, almost 6 (!) years later, I'm cancer free, and, unless I missed the e-mail, still breathing!

I took the stats as a challenge...to be in the 27%! I'm not saying that there wasn't a real chance I would face the 73%, but it was a motivation to fight like HECK! As John said, we DO have loses. BUT also many people that don't post anymore that have beat cancer!

It IS the fight of our lives, after all. And, unlike Ms. Fawcett who at the beginning didn't buy into that, until it was too late....I and my doctors threw everything at it from the start. Including, even when it looked like it was gone, going ahead with surgery that removed my rectum and sigmoid colon, and made a new rectum for me out of my descending colon. So I am not without battle scars, both from this and the breast cancer that followed (NOT a met...a totally different cancer).

Hugs, Kathi

herdizziness

And hun
Please have a family member post how your surgery went on Friday. We will all be praying and thinking of you on Friday, and wishing an easy post-op recovery.
Winter Marie

pepebcn

herdizziness said:

And hun
Please have a family member post how your surgery went on Friday. We will all be praying and thinking of you on Friday, and wishing an easy post-op recovery.
Winter Marie

As per l know actual statistics today are 50% of chances in
those whose primary and met can be operated! This are sadistic of MD Anderson.These figures are for liver mets but l supouse the same with other mets which can be removed.
Cheer up!

StacyGleaso

Take those odds to Vegas, Baby!
You know, it really truly bothers me when a doctor gives "odds" to a patient.

Let's look at what makes up those stats, is it clear?

Does that mean that 25% to 30% survive by
(a) doing nothing;
(b) getting treatment;
(c) having surgery;
(d) getting chemo;
(e) avoiding chemo.

And 25% to 30% chance of what? No recurrence? No additional treatments needed? Living for a day, month, year? What does it all mean??

What makes up the statistics? That was never really clear to me.

It was also never really clear to me why a doctor would act like a Vegas bookie and tell you your "odds" of landing on your feet.

I was stage 4....never asked my "odds"....ended up looking them up after all my treatments on the internet (you know, that wealth of both knowledge and trash) and seeing a whopping 3% chance of survival staring me in the eye. Are you kidding me??? That's ridiculous.

I have been cancer free since my 10 hour surgery on January 22, 2002. Period. I don't live with cancer, I am not treating cancer, I am thriving without cancer in my daily life. My doctor even said "cured."

Now, am I naive enough to believe it won't ever come back? Of course not!
Am I naive enough to believe that there aren't some microscopic cancer cells lurking somewhere? Of course not!

But you can bet on this....expiration dates are for dairy products...I've said this since my diagnosis on Oct. 3, 2001, and I stand by that. If your doctor is "that good" where he can tell you how "long you have," be sure to ask for a few lottery numbers at your next doctor visit--I'm sure you'll win big!

In the meantime....take care of YOU! Live each day to its fullest! And then send me an email in 10 years so we can laugh about those funny statistics together!

Hugs,

Stacy

Kerry S

StacyGleaso said:

Take those odds to Vegas, Baby!
You know, it really truly bothers me when a doctor gives "odds" to a patient.

Let's look at what makes up those stats, is it clear?

Does that mean that 25% to 30% survive by
(a) doing nothing;
(b) getting treatment;
(c) having surgery;
(d) getting chemo;
(e) avoiding chemo.

And 25% to 30% chance of what? No recurrence? No additional treatments needed? Living for a day, month, year? What does it all mean??

What makes up the statistics? That was never really clear to me.

It was also never really clear to me why a doctor would act like a Vegas bookie and tell you your "odds" of landing on your feet.

I was stage 4....never asked my "odds"....ended up looking them up after all my treatments on the internet (you know, that wealth of both knowledge and trash) and seeing a whopping 3% chance of survival staring me in the eye. Are you kidding me??? That's ridiculous.

I have been cancer free since my 10 hour surgery on January 22, 2002. Period. I don't live with cancer, I am not treating cancer, I am thriving without cancer in my daily life. My doctor even said "cured."

Now, am I naive enough to believe it won't ever come back? Of course not!
Am I naive enough to believe that there aren't some microscopic cancer cells lurking somewhere? Of course not!

But you can bet on this....expiration dates are for dairy products...I've said this since my diagnosis on Oct. 3, 2001, and I stand by that. If your doctor is "that good" where he can tell you how "long you have," be sure to ask for a few lottery numbers at your next doctor visit--I'm sure you'll win big!

In the meantime....take care of YOU! Live each day to its fullest! And then send me an email in 10 years so we can laugh about those funny statistics together!

Hugs,

Stacy

First off, I love you
Stacy,


There is another factor everyone needs to recognize. The doctors are also covering their ****. Folks have sued doctors because they said their loved one was fine and then they croaked.

I am a stat nut. I track everything from how often I mow the grass to my electric bill. I can tell you my networth by month from 1983. These are just numbers that are easily obtained.

We and our attitudes are a number that just can not be measured to fit into any equation.
We are simply too complex. I can only go by what doctors and nurses have told me. I will make it because of my attitude. I will not put out the white flag to this cancer crap.

Kerry

pepebcn

John23 said:

Stats, hope, and reality checks, oh my.


I feel ill when I hear things like "forget the stats", "let's do an NED dance",
and "things are different now".

I feel even more ill, when I see people get so much hope from
well-meaning people, and later get so totally blind-sided, because they
didn't take the statistics seriously.

Cancer is considered a terminal disease; It is considered that for
a reason. It's not hype, or a selling pitch, it's a condition that there
presently is no cure for.

Some here have oncologists that are treating cancer as a chronic disease,
and in doing so, are greatly extending the lives of some of their patients.

Others have oncologists that are throwing everything at their patients
in an effort to kill every cancer cell, regardless if it's possible to do so,
or not.

Some get sick for months and months of terribly aggressive treatment,
only to have a reoccurrence...... and some only have a few treatments,
and go for years and years without any sign of cancer.

Some of us have used alternative medicine since surgery....

But we're -all- in the same boat; not one of us have any guarantee
that we won't suffer a reoccurrence, or that we will not die of cancer.

Are the statistics accurate? Yes they are, they are -very- accurate.
The actual statistics have not changed for years. The same percentage
of people with various cancers die of cancer sometime after diagnosis.

"More people are living longer after their initial diagnosis".

A Norweigian study indicated that the statement is correct, but
only because new technology is providing the ability to locate
and identify cancer earlier. The same percentage of people are
dying from those cancers however, so statistically, the numbers
remain the same. I.E.: If you had a 25% chance of surviving colon
cancer stage III 20 years ago, you still have the same odds of
surviving it today.

I would pay attention to the statistics, and be aware that I may or
may not be one of the percentage that doesn't make it.

It's great to have hope, and it's great to feel "positive", but all
the great, positive feelings in the world can't cure cancer.

You've been diagnosed, you were given the stats; take the time to
prepare for the finale' while you have time. Prepare your family.
Make out wills and take care of legal issues. Yes, it sounds morbid
and scary, but you are now facing mortality. It's time to wake up,
not bury your head.

I'm not typing this to be mean, I'm typing it because I care.

You may live your full life span in spite of cancer, but take the time
now...... not later..... to be grateful for your life and those around you.


It -is- that serious.


John

Sorry John but 45 to 50% of 5 years survival are the numbers
that are managing currently most of the hospitals, at least here so l suppose not reason to different figures in the US!
Have fun amigo mio!

PGLGreg

StacyGleaso said:

Take those odds to Vegas, Baby!
You know, it really truly bothers me when a doctor gives "odds" to a patient.

Let's look at what makes up those stats, is it clear?

Does that mean that 25% to 30% survive by
(a) doing nothing;
(b) getting treatment;
(c) having surgery;
(d) getting chemo;
(e) avoiding chemo.

And 25% to 30% chance of what? No recurrence? No additional treatments needed? Living for a day, month, year? What does it all mean??

What makes up the statistics? That was never really clear to me.

It was also never really clear to me why a doctor would act like a Vegas bookie and tell you your "odds" of landing on your feet.

I was stage 4....never asked my "odds"....ended up looking them up after all my treatments on the internet (you know, that wealth of both knowledge and trash) and seeing a whopping 3% chance of survival staring me in the eye. Are you kidding me??? That's ridiculous.

I have been cancer free since my 10 hour surgery on January 22, 2002. Period. I don't live with cancer, I am not treating cancer, I am thriving without cancer in my daily life. My doctor even said "cured."

Now, am I naive enough to believe it won't ever come back? Of course not!
Am I naive enough to believe that there aren't some microscopic cancer cells lurking somewhere? Of course not!

But you can bet on this....expiration dates are for dairy products...I've said this since my diagnosis on Oct. 3, 2001, and I stand by that. If your doctor is "that good" where he can tell you how "long you have," be sure to ask for a few lottery numbers at your next doctor visit--I'm sure you'll win big!

In the meantime....take care of YOU! Live each day to its fullest! And then send me an email in 10 years so we can laugh about those funny statistics together!

Hugs,

Stacy

Hostility toward statistics.
I don't share the hostility and distrust of cancer statistics discussed by many of you in this thread. The numbers aren't important for telling me whether I should be encouraged or discouraged about my future, but rather what treatments I should have. I don't need or want psychological uplift from my doctors -- I want medical advice. So what is important about the figures is whether the 5 year survival rate for treatment A is better or worse than that for treatment B. I want to maximize my chances. I was told after my LAR that the 5 year survival rate for stage 2 rectal cancer patients after surgery was 40% without radiation treatments and 60% with (but without chemo). So of course I chose radiation. Now, maybe taking into account various favorable circumstances -- new radiation techniques developed, that I am a patient who keeps all doctor appointments and takes all medications as directed, and so on -- the true probabilities of my survival are higher. But what's the difference? If I adjust the estimates upward, would it change my decision whether to have radiation treatments? I don't think so.

I think oncologists use the statistics as a guide to choosing the best treatments, and that is how we should use them. But we can't ignore them, if we want to understand and participate in the treatment plans laid out by our doctors.

--Greg

pepebcn

PGLGreg said:

Hostility toward statistics.
I don't share the hostility and distrust of cancer statistics discussed by many of you in this thread. The numbers aren't important for telling me whether I should be encouraged or discouraged about my future, but rather what treatments I should have. I don't need or want psychological uplift from my doctors -- I want medical advice. So what is important about the figures is whether the 5 year survival rate for treatment A is better or worse than that for treatment B. I want to maximize my chances. I was told after my LAR that the 5 year survival rate for stage 2 rectal cancer patients after surgery was 40% without radiation treatments and 60% with (but without chemo). So of course I chose radiation. Now, maybe taking into account various favorable circumstances -- new radiation techniques developed, that I am a patient who keeps all doctor appointments and takes all medications as directed, and so on -- the true probabilities of my survival are higher. But what's the difference? If I adjust the estimates upward, would it change my decision whether to have radiation treatments? I don't think so.

I think oncologists use the statistics as a guide to choosing the best treatments, and that is how we should use them. But we can't ignore them, if we want to understand and participate in the treatment plans laid out by our doctors.

--Greg

l agree with you Greg but wouldn't you agree that good
stistics give you an extra dose of adrenaline an more optimism to figth ?
Get fun ,by the way have you seen Nadal match fun ehh! hope impressive in 3D!
Cheers!

HollyID

StacyGleaso said:

Take those odds to Vegas, Baby!
You know, it really truly bothers me when a doctor gives "odds" to a patient.

Let's look at what makes up those stats, is it clear?

Does that mean that 25% to 30% survive by
(a) doing nothing;
(b) getting treatment;
(c) having surgery;
(d) getting chemo;
(e) avoiding chemo.

And 25% to 30% chance of what? No recurrence? No additional treatments needed? Living for a day, month, year? What does it all mean??

What makes up the statistics? That was never really clear to me.

It was also never really clear to me why a doctor would act like a Vegas bookie and tell you your "odds" of landing on your feet.

I was stage 4....never asked my "odds"....ended up looking them up after all my treatments on the internet (you know, that wealth of both knowledge and trash) and seeing a whopping 3% chance of survival staring me in the eye. Are you kidding me??? That's ridiculous.

I have been cancer free since my 10 hour surgery on January 22, 2002. Period. I don't live with cancer, I am not treating cancer, I am thriving without cancer in my daily life. My doctor even said "cured."

Now, am I naive enough to believe it won't ever come back? Of course not!
Am I naive enough to believe that there aren't some microscopic cancer cells lurking somewhere? Of course not!

But you can bet on this....expiration dates are for dairy products...I've said this since my diagnosis on Oct. 3, 2001, and I stand by that. If your doctor is "that good" where he can tell you how "long you have," be sure to ask for a few lottery numbers at your next doctor visit--I'm sure you'll win big!

In the meantime....take care of YOU! Live each day to its fullest! And then send me an email in 10 years so we can laugh about those funny statistics together!

Hugs,

Stacy

Stacy....
I never asked for odds either and I didn't get any statistics thrown in my face. I truly believe that no expiration dates are stamped on anyone's behind. No doctor can say how long you have left or how one person, compared to another, will respond to treatment.

I'm also not so stupid to think that my cancer will not come back. If it does, it does... but I do have to say, as someone else stated, Most of us are LIVING with cancer! I'm living! I'm breathing, I'm walking and I'm flat out enjoying life, one day at a time!

My brother was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer that mets to his spine last week. His doctor of course was spouting off statistics that he only had 18 months to live and even with treatment, his survival is about 3%. Now, I ask you... why does any doctor say this? How does he know, without a doubt, he only has 18 months? It would make a person give up before they've even tried. My siblings however, respond like he's dying tomorrow. How do you think this makes my brother feel? I have to admit it angers me because they believe the doctor. Just makes my blood boil. I'm glad my brother has the right attitude believing he will beat this. He's always been stubborn. He's a fighter believing he really can do it. I hold out more hope for him than others, all because the doctor said he only had X amount of time left and I don't really give a care what the doctor thinks.

I guess my point is that no doctor has a crystal ball. They can't see into the future and tell us what's going to happen in a year or five years or ten years. They don't have a clue. If they think they do, like Stacy said, get lotto numbers.

One of my favorite quotes: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

pepebcn

PGLGreg said:

Hostility toward statistics.
I don't share the hostility and distrust of cancer statistics discussed by many of you in this thread. The numbers aren't important for telling me whether I should be encouraged or discouraged about my future, but rather what treatments I should have. I don't need or want psychological uplift from my doctors -- I want medical advice. So what is important about the figures is whether the 5 year survival rate for treatment A is better or worse than that for treatment B. I want to maximize my chances. I was told after my LAR that the 5 year survival rate for stage 2 rectal cancer patients after surgery was 40% without radiation treatments and 60% with (but without chemo). So of course I chose radiation. Now, maybe taking into account various favorable circumstances -- new radiation techniques developed, that I am a patient who keeps all doctor appointments and takes all medications as directed, and so on -- the true probabilities of my survival are higher. But what's the difference? If I adjust the estimates upward, would it change my decision whether to have radiation treatments? I don't think so.

I think oncologists use the statistics as a guide to choosing the best treatments, and that is how we should use them. But we can't ignore them, if we want to understand and participate in the treatment plans laid out by our doctors.

--Greg

Sorry 58% are the figures that MD Anderson are managing, looks
a beat optimistic to me but... it's Anderson, so l don't thing the are pulling the legs of anybody isn't?
Take a look to that:

http://www2.mdanderson.org/depts/oncolog/articles/06/4-apr/4-06-1.html
Have fun!

pepebcn

HollyID said:

Stacy....
I never asked for odds either and I didn't get any statistics thrown in my face. I truly believe that no expiration dates are stamped on anyone's behind. No doctor can say how long you have left or how one person, compared to another, will respond to treatment.

I'm also not so stupid to think that my cancer will not come back. If it does, it does... but I do have to say, as someone else stated, Most of us are LIVING with cancer! I'm living! I'm breathing, I'm walking and I'm flat out enjoying life, one day at a time!

My brother was diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer that mets to his spine last week. His doctor of course was spouting off statistics that he only had 18 months to live and even with treatment, his survival is about 3%. Now, I ask you... why does any doctor say this? How does he know, without a doubt, he only has 18 months? It would make a person give up before they've even tried. My siblings however, respond like he's dying tomorrow. How do you think this makes my brother feel? I have to admit it angers me because they believe the doctor. Just makes my blood boil. I'm glad my brother has the right attitude believing he will beat this. He's always been stubborn. He's a fighter believing he really can do it. I hold out more hope for him than others, all because the doctor said he only had X amount of time left and I don't really give a care what the doctor thinks.

I guess my point is that no doctor has a crystal ball. They can't see into the future and tell us what's going to happen in a year or five years or ten years. They don't have a clue. If they think they do, like Stacy said, get lotto numbers.

One of my favorite quotes: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

Holly l feel sorry for your brother,s news!
hope he will beat Statistics!
l pray for that!

lisa42

don't like statistics either
Hi Rita,

I'm one who does not bury my head and refuse to listen to statistics... I've read them and heard them most definitely (I'm also stage IV and have been since my diagnosis in 8/07). BUT... I've had two different oncologists and neither one of them has ever told me my chances of survival or how much longer they thought I have to live. My first onc never did and he took the very optimisitic approach of "we're going to cure this". He may have not personally believed it himself at the time- I don't know- but his positive "fight like hell" approach to it gave me the adrenaline I needed to positively fight with all I had in me at the time. I know that, personally, (even though I read statistics and knew how dire my stage IV diagnosis was) that if I had actually heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth "you have x amount of time left to live", that it would have killed the fight in me. When I changed oncologists after two years, I told my new onc at my first appt w/ him that I didn't want to hear any statistics or timelines given to me. I told him I know I can die from this and my husband and I have talked about it quite realistically, but I just needed him to be positive and upbeat for me, while still being realistic about treatments. His reply to me was that he never tells his patients how long he thinks they have left unless they specifically ask him to. Even then, he said he always qualifies the statistics and prognosis with "but everyone is different and only God knows how long someone is going to live & I'm just here to do everything I can to help my patients". I really like him.
Since my cancer has shown recently that I can't go off it even for a couple of weeks without starting to grow, I realize that I have to continue treatment forever and that, barring a miracle (and I DO believe in miracles & know of people who have had them), it is likely to take me at some point when I can no longer find a treatment or clinical trial that works for me. BUT... I have been sustained for over three years now without it spreading to any additional places in my body (other than the liver and lungs, which it was in upon diagnosis), and I have no symptoms or pain at all from the cancer. People still tell me that I look pretty good and they'd never know I have cancer or anything at all just by looking at me.

Personally, I'm going to keep on fighting, keep on researching everything possible for treatment (including alternative type treatments in addition to the traditional and cutting edge stuff) & I will just trust in my belief that the Lord Jesus has sustained me and kept me strong so far for a reason.

Blessings to you and I just said a prayer for you for your surgery this Friday. Please do let us know how it went as soon as you're able to post.

Take care and try to stay as upbeat as possible-
Lisa

C Dixon

lisa42 said:

don't like statistics either
Hi Rita,

I'm one who does not bury my head and refuse to listen to statistics... I've read them and heard them most definitely (I'm also stage IV and have been since my diagnosis in 8/07). BUT... I've had two different oncologists and neither one of them has ever told me my chances of survival or how much longer they thought I have to live. My first onc never did and he took the very optimisitic approach of "we're going to cure this". He may have not personally believed it himself at the time- I don't know- but his positive "fight like hell" approach to it gave me the adrenaline I needed to positively fight with all I had in me at the time. I know that, personally, (even though I read statistics and knew how dire my stage IV diagnosis was) that if I had actually heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth "you have x amount of time left to live", that it would have killed the fight in me. When I changed oncologists after two years, I told my new onc at my first appt w/ him that I didn't want to hear any statistics or timelines given to me. I told him I know I can die from this and my husband and I have talked about it quite realistically, but I just needed him to be positive and upbeat for me, while still being realistic about treatments. His reply to me was that he never tells his patients how long he thinks they have left unless they specifically ask him to. Even then, he said he always qualifies the statistics and prognosis with "but everyone is different and only God knows how long someone is going to live & I'm just here to do everything I can to help my patients". I really like him.
Since my cancer has shown recently that I can't go off it even for a couple of weeks without starting to grow, I realize that I have to continue treatment forever and that, barring a miracle (and I DO believe in miracles & know of people who have had them), it is likely to take me at some point when I can no longer find a treatment or clinical trial that works for me. BUT... I have been sustained for over three years now without it spreading to any additional places in my body (other than the liver and lungs, which it was in upon diagnosis), and I have no symptoms or pain at all from the cancer. People still tell me that I look pretty good and they'd never know I have cancer or anything at all just by looking at me.

Personally, I'm going to keep on fighting, keep on researching everything possible for treatment (including alternative type treatments in addition to the traditional and cutting edge stuff) & I will just trust in my belief that the Lord Jesus has sustained me and kept me strong so far for a reason.

Blessings to you and I just said a prayer for you for your surgery this Friday. Please do let us know how it went as soon as you're able to post.

Take care and try to stay as upbeat as possible-
Lisa

Wow
and Thanks! We all needed to hear that.

Catherine