Christians
Organized religion was I.
There came a time, I no longer believed. I still believe in a Supreme Being, in a Great Spirit, but not in the way most "Christians" believe in.
I never lost that belief, He, It, is still there for me.
I simply no longer believed in preaching the word interpreted by others. It became "The Interpreted Word" one that I could no longer preach. My beliefs changed as my life changed.
As my beloved older brother died from an anyerisum, as my little baby brother died from AIDS, and all the prayers I prayed went unanswered, I came to doubt. That doubt remains.
Some may state that my cancer came from my doubt, that it is my punishment. I, myself do not and cannot believe this. I no longer believe in a God that is omnipresent, that is all knowing. I can only believe in a power that is beyond my comprehension and hope and pray that He or It hears.
I state this because, someone brought on board a "sermon" by a preacher, to which I replied, I didn't believe in that "crapola" anymore, but more power to those that did.
My words were listed as "OFFENSIVE" and removed.
I feel as I have been censored for my beliefs that are other then yours.
If this is how the cancer board is to be run, then I will leave upon your consensus, I did not realize we must all "BELIEVE" in each others particular ways. For that I apologize.
I thought we were all here for one thing, trying to beat cancer, to uphold one another, to be there for one another, NOT for our religion, creed, color, or sex.
Winter Marie
Comments
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SimplyPGLGreg said:Belief.
I'm sorry if you were censored. I am totally against censorship. The believers among us are fearful and defensive. They cannot tolerate the free expression of opinion. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
--Greg
A thank you to you Greg.0 -
Sorry...PGLGreg said:Belief.
I'm sorry if you were censored. I am totally against censorship. The believers among us are fearful and defensive. They cannot tolerate the free expression of opinion. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
--Greg
but you are wrong. I am a believer and l am not fearful or defensive some others maybe the same. I dont think Winter Marie should have been censored...everyone has their own opinion pglgreg and as a Christian I am use to people with different opinions and l am sure as are people of other faiths its been going on for centuries but please dont sterotype all people of beliefs together.0 -
Marie:
Sorry I missed the post, I must have skipped over it. We do have a spirtuality board and that is where that stuff should be posted. Believer or not, this board is about cancer. Don't feel you need to leave the board, your imput is very important to the rest of us, patients and caregivers alike.
Take care and continue to post away - Tina0 -
Mariegeotina said:Marie:
Sorry I missed the post, I must have skipped over it. We do have a spirtuality board and that is where that stuff should be posted. Believer or not, this board is about cancer. Don't feel you need to leave the board, your imput is very important to the rest of us, patients and caregivers alike.
Take care and continue to post away - Tina
Don't pay attention stay with us! Your post and thoughts are so interesting to me.....
Best .
Pepe.0 -
Winter Marie -
When people are faced with death, it's normal to look for
something to hang onto. Taking away that one piece of thread
that they so dearly are clutching to, is akin to taking away their
chance at life. It's far from "crapola".
It's not just a belief in a specific religion, it's the belief in anything,
that's important to the individual that is in fear of dying.
We see that with the belief in chemotherapy, and radiation, as well!
Both are looked at as some sort of miraculous item that will be the
only thing that can save their life.
It's so easy to forget, that we each have a body that can take care
of itself under the most severe conditions, if we give it what it needs
to survive.
Instead, some fear trusting in their own self; a being that's been
put together with such magnificent care and expertise, and instead
turn to things like organized religion, chemotherapy, and all sorts
of outside costly marvels..... in a quest to find some outside solution
to what their own body could have fixed normally, with just a modest
bit of help.
We were given a gift of life, with a body that can heal itself....
In itself, a miracle; a miracle in the manner it was made, and the
expertise of the perfection....
What happened to that blind faith in our own life, and our inherent
ability to sustain it?
Why have people become so trusting in others for their survival?
But it isn't "crapola" at all..... It's what some need to cling to at
this moment in time....
......only until they realize there is something else; something
they've been given at birth..........
"Religion is what is in one's heart and soul"
It comes in all flavors; all good.
(My two centavos')
John0 -
here we go again
Marie- It is not your beliefs or anyone elses that incite and offend people but the verbage used to express them. I did not see your post but if you indeed used that verbage then you should know it might upset someone. We usually all agree to disagree on most matters, as I have with others on occassion, but words do carry weight with them and, like a baseball bat, should be used carefully. Many people cry "CENSORSHIP" after needlessly offending some group of people when the words or actions used were specifically chosen to get a response. The word "crapola" is admitadley a silly word but none the less unnecessary to convey your "beliefs". The word "fat" to describe a heavy person will no doubt get a similar response by that group as would "****" to discuss a gay person. The list goes on and on where words are "censored" by someone else that is "responsible" for doing what we should all do ourselves. Your explanation above is unnecessary also. A simple apology for using an offending description would have ended the issue but now this will probably turn into another heated disscussion. If, as you say, we are here for one another's support then why even mention "your" beliefs and opinion on religion? Again, not necessary. We all should respect the language we use and use it respectfully. Also, don't get you feathers ruffled over a poor choice of words. Your presence and opinion here is usefull to many as are the many religious posters but please, if you are going to "apologize" for anything I think you know your insincere apology, as used above, is again unnecessary. We chose our words and actions with full knowledge of how others will react to them so I really don't believe someone that says " I don't mean to offend anyone but.....". What they are really saying is, "I don't care if I offend anyone but....". We can all politely state, even shout our opinions and write about our beliefs, respectfully. If you don't agree, simply stay out of the disscussion or if you feel the need, simply say you disagree. Used properly, your posts will live on forever in cyberspace.
Be well, Chris0 -
Take it with a grain of salt
I CERTAINLY understand your frustration Marie, I only ask that you remember that along with the few that may not appreciate your point of view their are many, many more who do. I for one share your beliefs, there is something greater then all of this out there I just think "man" and all his imperfections has gotten confused. There is to much hypocracy and this is merely my opinion based on what I have witnessed in my life, for me to claim one organized religion over another as my own. I am a very spiritual person, I am a religous person, it just that my spirituality and religous beliefs do not fall into a catagory of any one standard/accepted religion Christian or otherwise. I found a quote once, dont remember the author now but it said something to effect of: More and more people seem to be moving away from the church and closer to God. I think that kind of sums me up.
Anyway the common thread to this board is Collorectal cancer, not God, or Budah, or Allah or any of the others. we are here to support each other through difficult times. some will chose to do so through their faith and that is fine as long as their faith does not turn into persecution of those who believe differently. You are a valuable member of this board and personaly I would hate to lose your kind words and insight due to the small minority of people who through their own self rightousness can not tolerate the belief of others when it differs from their own. You have to do what is right for you, and I understand your frustration, just remember while you are making your decision whether to stay or go that you factor in the large majority of us who appreciate unconditionally what you bring to this board through your posts and who will miss you if you go.
Your friend
Chris0 -
From one Chris to anothergreybeard64 said:Take it with a grain of salt
I CERTAINLY understand your frustration Marie, I only ask that you remember that along with the few that may not appreciate your point of view their are many, many more who do. I for one share your beliefs, there is something greater then all of this out there I just think "man" and all his imperfections has gotten confused. There is to much hypocracy and this is merely my opinion based on what I have witnessed in my life, for me to claim one organized religion over another as my own. I am a very spiritual person, I am a religous person, it just that my spirituality and religous beliefs do not fall into a catagory of any one standard/accepted religion Christian or otherwise. I found a quote once, dont remember the author now but it said something to effect of: More and more people seem to be moving away from the church and closer to God. I think that kind of sums me up.
Anyway the common thread to this board is Collorectal cancer, not God, or Budah, or Allah or any of the others. we are here to support each other through difficult times. some will chose to do so through their faith and that is fine as long as their faith does not turn into persecution of those who believe differently. You are a valuable member of this board and personaly I would hate to lose your kind words and insight due to the small minority of people who through their own self rightousness can not tolerate the belief of others when it differs from their own. You have to do what is right for you, and I understand your frustration, just remember while you are making your decision whether to stay or go that you factor in the large majority of us who appreciate unconditionally what you bring to this board through your posts and who will miss you if you go.
Your friend
Chris
Again, the point is missed. I understand you wrote your reply before reading mine but the point here is NOT what you or I believe but respecting the beliefs of others. You felt you wanted to give your personal view of religion. Unnecessary to the purpous of this disscussion forum. Marie's comment was not "censored" for her beliefs but for the disrespect it conveyed to others beliefs. That IS offensive and anyone that does not see that is blinded by their own bigotry. You can not insult someone's religion by calling it "crapola" and think it's fine by saying "MORE POWER TO YOU". Religion and beliefs have NOTHING to do with a comment being disrespectfull to others. I could easily say the same thing for bikers such as myself and you. There's nothing like hitting the open road. Add on "on a REAL bike (AKA Harley) as long as you don't have to deal with all the "rice burners" out there", and it takes on a different intent. A statement like that is unnecessary in it's intent. Would you sympothise with me if that was "censored"? You as well have gone beyond what is necessary to the conversation by stating "a small minority of people who through their own self rightousness can not tolerate the belief of others". That is an insulting statement throwing in a dig at outward religous people. You and Greg and Marie and many others on here are still missing the purpous of "religous" postings. Most religous posts are here for comfort and to help people that feel the same. They are NOT placed on here to convert you or turn you into a bible thumper. If you dissagree, so be it why do you feel compelled to tell everyone you don't believe the same. Instead, simply start your own post with your views, without referencing the other post, and let it be. There is NO cencorship on this board due to "beliefs" only due to lack of respect and in many cases, common sense.0 -
Missed the post
This is always a touchy subject. Not only on this board but in society. That is if one lives in a society that has a different belief system that what you (or others who post theirs) believe in. I think that is part of the reason CSN started a Spirituality, Religion, and Meditation forum. Then people who are interested in these topics can engage in discussions that are away from the medical Q&A. But even then, this site along with practically every other site has to T&C (Terms and Conditions) which is linked at the bottom of every page. That lists what CSN feel is appropriate to post and what is not. It's not about "censorship" it's also about preventing people who are not doctors from giving out medical advice, soliciting cures, general SPAM and other things they (CSN) deem to be not in the best interest of the general public which is who they are trying to serve. In other words US and we all know you can't make everyone happy.
Just to get back to religion, I have visited some religious sites that are cancer related and some that are not. They are VERY clear in what they will allow to be posted and what they will not. If you "rock the ark" so to speak, you're booted off the site. They and they alone determine what behavior is appropriate for their site. It's really that simple.
This, along with so many other topics can be beaten to death only to rise again. It's not a B&W issue. Some say spirituality, religion, prayer, good vibes all play a role in beating cancer. I personally agree that it can help. There have been times when the rules are bent to the point of snapping but we back off and it dissolves only to be brought up again and again. Some people don't care one way or the other, some are passionate about their beliefs, others are not tolerant of someone else's beliefs, and some do not feel it belongs on a site that is dedicated to cancer or at least in the area that is for x-type cancer. As passionate as we all can get about whatever we believe, it's easy to forget that not everyone shares our passion and at times it can be offensive to others.
"I thought we were all here for one thing, trying to beat cancer, to uphold one another, to be there for one another, NOT for our religion, creed, color, or sex." I couldn't agree with you more as to why we are on this site.
I have no idea what you originally posted Winter Marie. I've always found you to be a thoughtful person (and contributor to this site) and I hope you stay. I've found that it's REAL easy to get passionate and pissed off on here at times. Often a little quite time (and a glass of wine*) helps.
*I'm not giving medical advice!!!!0 -
This comment has been removed by the ModeratorPhillieG said:Missed the post
This is always a touchy subject. Not only on this board but in society. That is if one lives in a society that has a different belief system that what you (or others who post theirs) believe in. I think that is part of the reason CSN started a Spirituality, Religion, and Meditation forum. Then people who are interested in these topics can engage in discussions that are away from the medical Q&A. But even then, this site along with practically every other site has to T&C (Terms and Conditions) which is linked at the bottom of every page. That lists what CSN feel is appropriate to post and what is not. It's not about "censorship" it's also about preventing people who are not doctors from giving out medical advice, soliciting cures, general SPAM and other things they (CSN) deem to be not in the best interest of the general public which is who they are trying to serve. In other words US and we all know you can't make everyone happy.
Just to get back to religion, I have visited some religious sites that are cancer related and some that are not. They are VERY clear in what they will allow to be posted and what they will not. If you "rock the ark" so to speak, you're booted off the site. They and they alone determine what behavior is appropriate for their site. It's really that simple.
This, along with so many other topics can be beaten to death only to rise again. It's not a B&W issue. Some say spirituality, religion, prayer, good vibes all play a role in beating cancer. I personally agree that it can help. There have been times when the rules are bent to the point of snapping but we back off and it dissolves only to be brought up again and again. Some people don't care one way or the other, some are passionate about their beliefs, others are not tolerant of someone else's beliefs, and some do not feel it belongs on a site that is dedicated to cancer or at least in the area that is for x-type cancer. As passionate as we all can get about whatever we believe, it's easy to forget that not everyone shares our passion and at times it can be offensive to others.
"I thought we were all here for one thing, trying to beat cancer, to uphold one another, to be there for one another, NOT for our religion, creed, color, or sex." I couldn't agree with you more as to why we are on this site.
I have no idea what you originally posted Winter Marie. I've always found you to be a thoughtful person (and contributor to this site) and I hope you stay. I've found that it's REAL easy to get passionate and pissed off on here at times. Often a little quite time (and a glass of wine*) helps.
*I'm not giving medical advice!!!!0 -
This comment has been removed by the Moderatorimagineit2010 said:here we go again
Marie- It is not your beliefs or anyone elses that incite and offend people but the verbage used to express them. I did not see your post but if you indeed used that verbage then you should know it might upset someone. We usually all agree to disagree on most matters, as I have with others on occassion, but words do carry weight with them and, like a baseball bat, should be used carefully. Many people cry "CENSORSHIP" after needlessly offending some group of people when the words or actions used were specifically chosen to get a response. The word "crapola" is admitadley a silly word but none the less unnecessary to convey your "beliefs". The word "fat" to describe a heavy person will no doubt get a similar response by that group as would "****" to discuss a gay person. The list goes on and on where words are "censored" by someone else that is "responsible" for doing what we should all do ourselves. Your explanation above is unnecessary also. A simple apology for using an offending description would have ended the issue but now this will probably turn into another heated disscussion. If, as you say, we are here for one another's support then why even mention "your" beliefs and opinion on religion? Again, not necessary. We all should respect the language we use and use it respectfully. Also, don't get you feathers ruffled over a poor choice of words. Your presence and opinion here is usefull to many as are the many religious posters but please, if you are going to "apologize" for anything I think you know your insincere apology, as used above, is again unnecessary. We chose our words and actions with full knowledge of how others will react to them so I really don't believe someone that says " I don't mean to offend anyone but.....". What they are really saying is, "I don't care if I offend anyone but....". We can all politely state, even shout our opinions and write about our beliefs, respectfully. If you don't agree, simply stay out of the disscussion or if you feel the need, simply say you disagree. Used properly, your posts will live on forever in cyberspace.
Be well, Chris0 -
Maybe a technical thingunknown said:This comment has been removed by the Moderator
I have no idea how this board is set up, but coming from a computer background, it may be that if the original message is deleted (regardless of reason) that any attached messages to that thread are deleted as well by the system, not a person.
Marie0 -
Free choice in beliefs
What you or I believe in is not the issue.
We each do have the responsibility to treat each other with respect and dignity.
We may or may not believe it every post that is made. We don't agree with the content that is easy enough to say without being offensive, or even better ignore it and move on to another message.
I am not offended by others having a different view of this world or the next. But I would be offended if someone denigrated my view point just because it differed from theirs.
Marie0 -
??
@Marie: I did not read that post....thankfully, or not thanfully...but...I believe that censoring someone's post is only an option if one's intentionally hurts others..no matter because of not accepting someone else's religion, or their origin or whatnot. As long as people don't intentionally attack to other for having an idea/belief, or an origin you don't approve too much...no post should be removed. Like you said; I read tons of post here where people post the other one that "you are in my prayers", or as "I will ask God to help you" etc. I have no problem with that. That's what they believe in, and indeed, I admit...it must be good to feel to be believing something truly, and feeling a sense of belonging...but as you, I have lost my faith. I know, it's stupid...losing my faith because of bad things but...I guess I'm a selfish human being. And it's not really that I totally reject the Creator/God/Him/It....I just feel I really don't want to deal with this...it is as painful as the past events that sort of caused this. Maybe, one day I'll change...maybe I won't. But I don't disapprove people who truly believe, and I am totally fine with that as well. And as long as they don't insult me for not believing, and I believe, as long as I don't offend them for believing- posts should not be removed! I don't know how offensive or non-offensive your post was as I've never read it...plus, I'm not here to judge. I just very much believe that until people don't attack each other, hurt each other, insult each other for differences, then they can freely share what they feel about religion, origin, race, sex, whatever aspect is up there to "pick". Indeed, I often ask people who are in different religious group what they truly believe and stuff...I find it interesting. Sorry to hear about your incident...hopefully this will not happen again!
Cheers,
- Sophie0 -
That is right MarieLovekitties said:Maybe a technical thing
I have no idea how this board is set up, but coming from a computer background, it may be that if the original message is deleted (regardless of reason) that any attached messages to that thread are deleted as well by the system, not a person.
Marie
If you start a post, you have the ability to delete it.
What this boils down to is that the owner of the site gets to determine what they think should go on the site. If someone made a site to discuss Gardening, they may not want topics created about Auto Mechanics. It's that simple.0 -
dead horse gettin beat here...unknown said:This comment has been removed by the Moderator
Kathy, you missed the point AGAIN. Neither you nor I are the judge of what is offensive to someone else. Whether you think it was offensive or not is irrelevant to the situation. I used Marie's own word "crapola" in my response and if that was indeed used in the context of describing organized religion then it was neither "polite" nor "to the point". That slang is used to insult or demean someone else's choice of belief and is hardly supportive in the intent of this forum. Religion is not the issue here but respect and courtesy granted others feelings and beliefs. While I am not fat I can certainly understand someone being overweight taking offense at that word. And you should agree, while I don't have blonde hair, it is easy to understand using "dumb blonde" as an adjective would be hurtfull or insulting thus common courtesy would keep most from using those words. How is it then you can't see an insulting use of language directed toward a person's belief system? This is a public forum and someone has the responsibility of monitoring what is said. It just so happens that religion is a touchy subject and should be treated accordingly.
This post titled "Christians" is directed at one specific religious group and that in itself could be offending.(saying that Christians are intolerant and embrace censorship) If Marie did not try to offend Christianity then why is this post directed at Christians only and not titled "Religion and censorship"?0 -
This comment has been removed by the Moderatorsharpy102 said:??
@Marie: I did not read that post....thankfully, or not thanfully...but...I believe that censoring someone's post is only an option if one's intentionally hurts others..no matter because of not accepting someone else's religion, or their origin or whatnot. As long as people don't intentionally attack to other for having an idea/belief, or an origin you don't approve too much...no post should be removed. Like you said; I read tons of post here where people post the other one that "you are in my prayers", or as "I will ask God to help you" etc. I have no problem with that. That's what they believe in, and indeed, I admit...it must be good to feel to be believing something truly, and feeling a sense of belonging...but as you, I have lost my faith. I know, it's stupid...losing my faith because of bad things but...I guess I'm a selfish human being. And it's not really that I totally reject the Creator/God/Him/It....I just feel I really don't want to deal with this...it is as painful as the past events that sort of caused this. Maybe, one day I'll change...maybe I won't. But I don't disapprove people who truly believe, and I am totally fine with that as well. And as long as they don't insult me for not believing, and I believe, as long as I don't offend them for believing- posts should not be removed! I don't know how offensive or non-offensive your post was as I've never read it...plus, I'm not here to judge. I just very much believe that until people don't attack each other, hurt each other, insult each other for differences, then they can freely share what they feel about religion, origin, race, sex, whatever aspect is up there to "pick". Indeed, I often ask people who are in different religious group what they truly believe and stuff...I find it interesting. Sorry to hear about your incident...hopefully this will not happen again!
Cheers,
- Sophie0
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