ARE WE OVER ZEALOUS AT TIMES....IT IS A CONCERN OF MINE PLEASE CHIME IN.
Comments
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Steve MartinPhillieG said:But
I respect your beliefs RE but they look to me that they are based on the belief that God, as understood from the bible, is the one and only being that all spirituality is based upon.
Do you believe that a person can be spiritual without being a believer in the christian God?
BTW: I believe in 7 of the 10 commandments.(that was part of a Steve Martin bit called "what I believe" from years ago)
I actually think they are mostly good common sense guidelines to live one's life. The golden rule is the main way I try to live my life, I know it's not a commandment. But just thinking now at what the 10 commandments are called...Commands. Pretty heavy stuff with dire consequences that are not followed that often it seems in many people's lives with the exception of thou shalt not kill.
Who cannot smile when thinking of this man, he has a talent for putting a smile on ones face and heart. Yes, I agree the Old Testament when the ten commandments were created was a bit of a harsh time, (come to think of it it can be harsh even today.) Your question to me as to if one can be spiritual without being a believer in the Christian God is interesting and I truly am not sure how I feel about it. You are absolutely correct that I believe that God as understood from the Bible is the one and only God, but that does not mean one cannot be spiritual without him, simply not saved. This is a very deep conversation and one I had not intended to delve into online yet here I am. As I said before these are deeply rooted truths for me from as far back as I can recall. I was quite ill as a child and died or was near death on many occasions' before the age of 3. My daddy was a Navy Seal and had traveled the world and as a result has first hand knowledge of many other religions. He and I often had conversations on why I felt God was the only true God, somehow in the end I suppose he was persuaded as he is a believer himself as was my Mom prior to her death. It simply is a truth I know and have always known in my heart Phil, and I truly respect that you respect my beliefs as I respect your desires to expand your knowledge of religion as you know it.
All my best to you,
RE0 -
Spiritual without believing in a Xstian God... absolutelyPhillieG said:But
I respect your beliefs RE but they look to me that they are based on the belief that God, as understood from the bible, is the one and only being that all spirituality is based upon.
Do you believe that a person can be spiritual without being a believer in the christian God?
BTW: I believe in 7 of the 10 commandments.(that was part of a Steve Martin bit called "what I believe" from years ago)
I actually think they are mostly good common sense guidelines to live one's life. The golden rule is the main way I try to live my life, I know it's not a commandment. But just thinking now at what the 10 commandments are called...Commands. Pretty heavy stuff with dire consequences that are not followed that often it seems in many people's lives with the exception of thou shalt not kill.
IMHO, spiritual is not the same as religious. Religions seem to be man made. I believe spiritural to mean believing in some sort of higher power as defined by that particular individual. While the Bible may be "dictated" by God, it was written by man, as were the other holy books. But people tend to forget that......0 -
:-)dasspears said:Spiritual without believing in a Xstian God... absolutely
IMHO, spiritual is not the same as religious. Religions seem to be man made. I believe spiritural to mean believing in some sort of higher power as defined by that particular individual. While the Bible may be "dictated" by God, it was written by man, as were the other holy books. But people tend to forget that......
Hi Dass thanks for chiming in, that is what I love about this board we can all openly express our beliefs with the understanding that we can all learn from each other and/or learn how others see things.
My Best To You,
RE0 -
Me too!RE said::-)
Hi Dass thanks for chiming in, that is what I love about this board we can all openly express our beliefs with the understanding that we can all learn from each other and/or learn how others see things.
My Best To You,
RE
Thank you! Everyone is respectful and open - I really appreciate that. And I just noticed that I spelled spiritual wrong two times in my previous post!0 -
hee hee heedasspears said:Me too!
Thank you! Everyone is respectful and open - I really appreciate that. And I just noticed that I spelled spiritual wrong two times in my previous post!
Well PLEASE do not check my spelling you may faint! If I remember I copy my text and go to http://www.spellchecker.net/spellcheck/ which saves me quite a bit. Truly spelling incorrectly is fine with me so don't worry too much about it! Hope you have a wonderful weekend!
RE0 -
Great Topicdasspears said:Me too!
Thank you! Everyone is respectful and open - I really appreciate that. And I just noticed that I spelled spiritual wrong two times in my previous post!
I like this section of the cancer site. Topics such as religion seem to be more suitable in here than in the middle of a post where someone wants answers to medical questions.
I find I learn new things all of the time here plus it gets me to think more.
-peace
-phil0 -
Fat cat with a guitar?PhillieG said:Great Topic
I like this section of the cancer site. Topics such as religion seem to be more suitable in here than in the middle of a post where someone wants answers to medical questions.
I find I learn new things all of the time here plus it gets me to think more.
-peace
-phil
We are all different and we have that freedom to be different, I too agree and I am glad that we can discuss our believe or non believe with out anyone getting angry at someone else, there is nothing worse then caricature assassination by people who think that they are the only one who is right.
Good picture Phil0 -
Fat Cat with a Strat!Hondo said:Fat cat with a guitar?
We are all different and we have that freedom to be different, I too agree and I am glad that we can discuss our believe or non believe with out anyone getting angry at someone else, there is nothing worse then caricature assassination by people who think that they are the only one who is right.
Good picture Phil
There have been some less than pleasant discussions that have broken out in other areas of the board. Here, we all know what we are here to discuss and there are differences of opinion. I think it's great. I certainly do not claim to have the answers at all but it's great to see how we all cope with cancer in our own way.
Glad you like the cartoon, it's a B Kliban one. I like his drawings, they crack me up. One has to laugh or try to find humor in life I feel.0 -
well ...RE said:I disagree
Well I am afraid I disagree with you both, the old testament gave us the ten commandments to follow as God’s law, of course being the humans we are we failed. God knew we would, after all he is God. To allow forgiveness he sent his son Jesus to willingly die on the cross (at any time he could have reneged) and the pack was sealed those who choose to freely accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior have their name written in the book of life those who choose not to do so take a different path upon death. The old testament was about rules, however once the Lord sent Jesus to die for our sins the rules are still there and yes they should be followed however your salvation is not revoked if you falter. As a follower of God we should have a respect for his desires for us and we should strive to behave in a Christ like manner. Now I know that is not always doable because we are human I certainly do not do it as Christ would like me to. It is my belief that someday we will have to stand before God and account for our life; I know this because I was witness to it as my sister did so the last day of her life. We will account for our wrongs and our rights, we will atone and if we have sincerely asked God into our lives we will be forgiven. I have always known there was a God, since childhood I have never not know it is just something that has always been there. I have felt his presence in a most personal soul reaching manner and I have disappointed him in that same soul reaching manner, but the Lord had never nor will he ever erase my name from the book of life as I know he is there and I know he is the creator of all that is or ever will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega of that I have no doubt.
Your Friend,
RE
one can be
well ...
one can be spiritual and still believe in God
one can be without religion and still believe in God
one can be withouth religion and still worship God
And for many non-Christians there is only one God who is the beginning, the end and everything in between...and more.
Jesus Christ was truly brilliant, his teachings are incredible and we have much to learn about love,forgiveness and compassion from them. Mohammed(peace be upon him) too, was a brilliant light that we can learn a great deal from, much in the realm of surrender and rememberance.... However we don't need to belong to either or any religion or be labeled by any religion in order to serve God and live our lives with integrity.0 -
Well 1st off I am a born again christian and proud of it...I pray for everyone on this board I don't ask if you are a beliver or not don't care. If it weren't for Jesus dieing on the cross we would not have religion. I am living prof that my surgons hand was lead by God to remove my cancer because he prayed in the OR before anything was done.I also know the doctors get the credit but when he ask God to use his hands as a tool to remove cancer ...hey you gotta give credit where credit is due he ask for help and got it...I have not had 1 doctor in my entire cancer battle that didn't take my hand and pray out loud for me, and now days where alot of people are embarresed to admit they are belivers it made me feel very proud to hear a professional proclaim his belief. You don't have to like this post you don't have to reply I don't care one way or the other I used my freedom of speech. I am a Christian and if you disagree than you to have read the constitution of the United States of America...Hondo said:I agree that Religion will not and can not save anyone; Religion is nothing more then man reaching out to God by works, Christianity to me is God reaching down to Man by grace.
Pround to be an American with the freedom to say this...0 -
Thanksunknown said:This comment has been removed by the Moderator
Re and Kathy (and Joe too),
Thanks for your support. Everyone is trigger happy with the flag button. There have been more flags because of this that I saw over at the United Nations. You two (sorry Joe..) not only are Christians, but you act like Christians. Too bad others only wear the label and not what goes with it. As long as there are 2 people or more on earth, let alone on a public cancer forum or any other forum that is not religion based, religion will find it's way on to it and those who proselytize will continue to do so because (their) God told them to do it. I agree with the comments you made about social graces or manners. Some people lack them. Some people are not real good at the internet either so they are not aware that you can email someone and not tell them what you want through a public post.
The site always has it's ups and downs and always will. There are times and places for various discussions too. That seems to be another sticking point with many. I'd love to see the majority of the posts on the colon cancer forum be about colon cancer. I guess I'm funny that way. That is not to say at all that someone can't say that I'll pray for you, or please pray for me. That is not what all of that was about by any stretch of the imagination.
If we could only harness this power of the past few days we could light up the USA for a week!
Be well ladies (and Joe) and thanks for the great post. It's nice to know people who "get it".
-p0 -
Prayer/Religion...maybe something else too?lcarper2 said:Well 1st off I am a born again christian and proud of it...I pray for everyone on this board I don't ask if you are a beliver or not don't care. If it weren't for Jesus dieing on the cross we would not have religion. I am living prof that my surgons hand was lead by God to remove my cancer because he prayed in the OR before anything was done.I also know the doctors get the credit but when he ask God to use his hands as a tool to remove cancer ...hey you gotta give credit where credit is due he ask for help and got it...I have not had 1 doctor in my entire cancer battle that didn't take my hand and pray out loud for me, and now days where alot of people are embarresed to admit they are belivers it made me feel very proud to hear a professional proclaim his belief. You don't have to like this post you don't have to reply I don't care one way or the other I used my freedom of speech. I am a Christian and if you disagree than you to have read the constitution of the United States of America...
Pround to be an American with the freedom to say this...
or positive thoughts, good vibes, healing thoughts...they seem to me to be different names for a similar thing. Just as someone being constantly negative and having that be a toxic environment, being positive through prayer and the other methods I mentioned can have a healing nurturing thing to them.
Louann, I saw you mentioned that if it were not for Jesus dying on the cross there would be no religion. Do you possibly mean that w/o Jesus dying on the cross there would be no Christianity? There would still be many religions around, not all of them are based on Christian beliefs, right?
I have never found any aspect of what I may or may not believe in enter into my world of cancer. I was refreshing though to hear that your surgeon, who I guess knew how strong your faith is, took the time to pray with you and to make you feel more at ease. I've had doctors from many different cultures and ethnic background operate on me and I put my trust in them and their ability as men and women who put in may hours of hard work to become experts in their fields. I do not see their hands being guided by anything other than their ability that they gained through hard work.
I know you're pretty new on this part of the site, you don't have to put in comments about if you like it or don't, that all goes without saying. This part of the site is made for open discussion, sometimes exchanges of ideas, and sometimes discussions as to why someone may not agree with each other. We have all been quite good and respectful of how we talk to each other 99% of the time.
Be proud of who you are, just as the agnostics, Hindus, Muslims and whoever else we have on this forum are proud of who they are.0 -
Free to say this toolcarper2 said:Well 1st off I am a born again christian and proud of it...I pray for everyone on this board I don't ask if you are a beliver or not don't care. If it weren't for Jesus dieing on the cross we would not have religion. I am living prof that my surgons hand was lead by God to remove my cancer because he prayed in the OR before anything was done.I also know the doctors get the credit but when he ask God to use his hands as a tool to remove cancer ...hey you gotta give credit where credit is due he ask for help and got it...I have not had 1 doctor in my entire cancer battle that didn't take my hand and pray out loud for me, and now days where alot of people are embarresed to admit they are belivers it made me feel very proud to hear a professional proclaim his belief. You don't have to like this post you don't have to reply I don't care one way or the other I used my freedom of speech. I am a Christian and if you disagree than you to have read the constitution of the United States of America...
Pround to be an American with the freedom to say this...
Not to rain on your self-righteous parade, lcarper, but at least a couple of things need to be pointed out:
Religion precedes the existence of Jesus. Lest ye forget, Jesus was purportedly a Hebrew, which means that at least one religion preceded Jesus, which is to say nothing of Greek and Roman polytheism (which would only ignore all of Asia and both of the Americas, along with the pre-existing religions of the very region from whence christianity sprung).
You are NOT living proof that your doctors' hands were led by God if your only 'proof' is your conviction that such is the case. I must ask the obvious: if God's hand was required, why then did you not go a bit cheaper, skip the doctors, and ask your neighbors to do whatever your doctors did instead?
Finally, your ranting about free speech and so forth seems completely out of place here. This particular board was established, or so I gather, EXPRESSLY to allow people such as yourself to post comments related to your religious beliefs, even if those beliefs are based on an astonishingly, severly, limited knowledge of the religion you purport to believe (how can one believe when one hasn't a clue?).
Joe0 -
On Faith and Cancer
Just glancing over the comments so far in general I would like to add my 2 cents worth on why some religious people- I am one- appear over zealous at times. I remember when I first got the first indication something might be wrong when I got back an elevated PSA lab report. I was somewhat concerned, my wife was concerned- it was difficult to not discuss it somewhat. Then the biopsy results came back- high gleason score- it certainly had our attention. The topic of cancer and treatment just drew us into its web. Then there was surgery, hormone shots, radiation- lots of fuel for conversation. Almost in an obcessive way. My wife and I were very interested in what I was going through and it was very hard not to bring it into our conversations.
Well, many religious folk are very much into Jesus and faith. I am, and sometimes it is very difficult not to bring it into our conversations. Sometimes we lack wisdom and skill in sharing what we know, just as sometimes mis-informaiton about cancer is shared by zealous cancer patients who are very good ar sharing what they have experienced but may not understand how their treatment relates to others with the same or different cancers. Forgive for our zeal on both sides- religion and cancer. Both are important to us and we do feel a need to talk, to share what we know and learn from others.
This probably doesn't satisfy RE's inquiry at the top, but there may never be a fully satisfactory answer. We are just people, afterall, not God, and therefore limited in our knowledge. If anyone has ever read the OT book of Job you can see how easy it is to form wrong opinions about God or anything else for that matter.0 -
BumpTrew said:On Faith and Cancer
Just glancing over the comments so far in general I would like to add my 2 cents worth on why some religious people- I am one- appear over zealous at times. I remember when I first got the first indication something might be wrong when I got back an elevated PSA lab report. I was somewhat concerned, my wife was concerned- it was difficult to not discuss it somewhat. Then the biopsy results came back- high gleason score- it certainly had our attention. The topic of cancer and treatment just drew us into its web. Then there was surgery, hormone shots, radiation- lots of fuel for conversation. Almost in an obcessive way. My wife and I were very interested in what I was going through and it was very hard not to bring it into our conversations.
Well, many religious folk are very much into Jesus and faith. I am, and sometimes it is very difficult not to bring it into our conversations. Sometimes we lack wisdom and skill in sharing what we know, just as sometimes mis-informaiton about cancer is shared by zealous cancer patients who are very good ar sharing what they have experienced but may not understand how their treatment relates to others with the same or different cancers. Forgive for our zeal on both sides- religion and cancer. Both are important to us and we do feel a need to talk, to share what we know and learn from others.
This probably doesn't satisfy RE's inquiry at the top, but there may never be a fully satisfactory answer. We are just people, afterall, not God, and therefore limited in our knowledge. If anyone has ever read the OT book of Job you can see how easy it is to form wrong opinions about God or anything else for that matter.
This was posted in January 2010. Thought I'd bump it back up near the top since it seems to be relative.0 -
MarciaMarcia527 said:Some people are over
Some people are over zealous. They carry it too far and don't realize it. It's called wearing their faith on their sleeve. Really it should not be on the sleeve but in your soul. It is my belief that they are misguided. I know others will disagree but I'm just stating my belief. I don't think belief in God needs to be pushed.
This is why we need you, RE, on the boards. :>)
I have my own theories...which I'll keep to myself. I think we all need to find faith, not be told what it is.
Thanks.0 -
PhilPhillieG said:Bump
This was posted in January 2010. Thought I'd bump it back up near the top since it seems to be relative.
Re Marcia's post:
"I think we all need to find faith, not be told what it is."
I'm always amazed when something so profound, can be said so
perfectly, in so few words!
Best wishes!!
John0 -
thanks for bumping the postPhillieG said:Amen
I mean Right On!
I agree, that says it perfectly
-p
thanks for bumping the post it was a good read
personaly am not christan and dont care to be. I don't have a problem with anyone elses religion or lack there of. The only problem I have is when someone wants to "SAVE ME" or such.
I dont have a problem with someone posting a comment with religious hints to it in other sections as long as they dont get to preachie about it.0
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