ARE WE OVER ZEALOUS AT TIMES....IT IS A CONCERN OF MINE PLEASE CHIME IN.

PhillieG

RE said:

icicles
Oh my where do you live Phil? I shall not complain about all our rain then. My husband is heading back to Arizona next week on business where it will be high 70s low 50, lucky dog that he is! Enjoy your gardening but don't farm so long you end up with frost bite.

RE

Ice is Nice
I'm in lower NY State. it's a toasty 30 degrees outside now, maybe we will take a walk during lunch today. It's nice and sunny out at least.
-p

papajedi

RE said:

:-)
Hello Hondo, thank you for your response as I found portions of it quite interesting. I was a bit taken aback by your comment that since it is a public forum we as Christians should not necessarily discuss church doctrine yet we should be one in prayer and faith. That is a difficult one as my faith though it be Christian may be quite different to me than it is to you which is one of the reasons this discussion board was created. I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers. I do not mean you cannot mention a scripture to a fellow believer by perhaps saying something general like "you may find John 3:16 interesting" but I don't think we should be posting and discussing what is in John 3:16, if someone is interested they can look it up, we should not be preaching even Christian to Christian on the discussion boards that are dedicated to individual cancers that is what the email system is for. If we wear our faith on our sleeve so to speak it can be a major turn off to others who do not have the same beliefs and they may feel they do not want to come back to a public site not a public Christian site that spouts religion they do not wish to be subjected to. This I find harmful as they will be denied the help they can obtain here, I cannot see how that is helpful to anyone and I know it is not what God would want me to be doing.

In regards to asking if we can help by praying for them I don't think we need to ask, we simply need to pray for them as it will have the same effect with the Lord weather they know we are praying or not. I have had folks ask me to pray for them and I have had folks ask me to send positive thoughts their way and so I pray that the Lord will send positive thoughts their way and I tell them positive thoughts (not prayer) are on the way. This site is so valuable and so needed to the masses of people out there who get cancer I do not wish my faith to ever cause even one to be chased away. I pray for everyone on this site every night, not just for healing but for comfort, friendship, strength, wisdom, answers, faith and of course for the cure.

I do agree that our doctors may not be our only source of help in our cancer walk, however they are my main source. There are physical therapists who help us a great deal, physco therapists who help us cope mentally, and of course the herbalists and such. I just feel we should use all these in conjunction with our doctors who certainly know their stuff and have been keeping me alive for 12 years now. I could go on about those that I know who turned their backs on the doctors and are no more (they were both devout) but as you say, that's another story. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond Hondo.

RE

How About
A pyschoherbalistictherapist ?

Glenna M

PhillieG said:

Ice is Nice
I'm in lower NY State. it's a toasty 30 degrees outside now, maybe we will take a walk during lunch today. It's nice and sunny out at least.
-p

Minus 8 degrees.......
I love to walk and try to get out each day for a half an hour, weather permitting. Most days I have to wait until 1 PM before the thermometer reaches double digits, the other morning it was minus 8 degrees when I got up - brrrrrrrrrr :-) I am anxiously awaiting spring. I live in west central NH, it's a beautiful state but definitely has long cold winters.

Stay strong and keep smiling,
Glenna

papajedi

Hondo said:

Over Zealous
Hi RE: You make a very interesting point.

I agree that on a public forum we should be more mindful of each other and respect everyone who is here; people reaching out are not always reaching for help from God. In accordance with why I believe the Bible teaches we should first tend to peoples physical needs whether it is information or monetary help, then secondary we should try and help with the spiritual, but only if they are willing. Never should any Christian try to force there belief, ways, or tradition on someone else, you can read the Bible from Genesis to Revelations and never find God forcing Himself on anyone.

There is great loss in the cause of Christ when Christians are seen in conflict, This Public forum is not a place for Christian to discuss there church doctrines, It is a place where we should be one in prayer and faith as they are both great tools in the Hand of believer.


On our doctors and medical institutions I do find I have a problem believing that they are the only source of help for someone with Cancer or any other type of illness. I believe God has givng them the ability to help heal our broken bodies and for this I am very grateful, but I also believe that there are other ways we can help our bodies. If I was a person who went only by what my doctors told me I would not be here today, that’s another story.

I find a lot of diversity in beliefs here on CSN and the need not to offend anyone is of great significance. We should all be open minded to the need of people asking help, but we should also not be afraid to ask if we can help by praying for them as well.

Hi Hondo
you wrote...I believe God has givng them the ability to help heal our broken bodies and for this I am very grateful, but I also believe that there are other ways we can help our bodies. If I was a person who went only by what my doctors told me I would not be here today, that’s another story.

It's interesting because there are places in the gospels where the word power could also be translated :ability". In the verse where Jesus laid hands on the disciples and sent them into the countryside it should be translated "ability", he gave them his ability to heal ect. I have great doctors and have developed wonderful relationships with them. I get to share what God has done for me and we incorporate that into treatment:) They on the other hand have witnessed the healing done in my body and have been accepting and amazed by it.

papajedi

RE said:

Good point
Good point Phil, like I mentioned earlier if we all thought alike how boring it would be. I had not taken that thought path and that may very well be what Hondo was thinking, it simply is not how I read it. I agree that this forum is open to all discussion scripture quoting included which is what I intended to get across when I stated "I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers." This forum is not dedicated to individual cancer's and I see it as somewhat of a think tank where we come to discuss a wide variety of religious views and bounce things off one another as I have done with this topic, I find this to be a good thing. Thanks for chiming in and giving us your point of view.

Enjoy your day,

RE

I hesitate as a rule to just quote/write scripture out in that formu simply as it feels like I'm preaching. I will usually paraphrase it into my own words plus it has more meaning usually, better way to express myself. Here we have more liberty, it's ok to be passionate about what good God has done in our lives

Hondo

PhillieG said:

I need better glasses
"I strongly feel we should not be quoting scripture and such on the boards dedicated to individual cancers."
I agree 100% with you.
Have a great day too. It's a sweltering 12 degree outside now.
I may do some gardening. I've got a hell of crop of icicles going on outside!
-p

Hi Phillieg
Sorry too much work and no time to play, just getting back and will be leaving again soon.

I don’t think there is a big problem with someone using scriptures as long as it does not offend someone, please understand where I am coming from here.

Some diseases are deeper then what we see, some are not just the physical but also spiritual. In reading the Bible sometimes Jesus would heal someone first by saying thy sins are forgiving, take up your bed and walk. Others all Jesus had to do was to just touch them and make the whole. In this same way some people need to hear or know more about God and that God cares for them, some are OK just knowing someone is praying for them, and others just need a “hope all is well” see you later.

I don’t think we should refuse the spiritual healing these people are in need of and give them just the physical we would be doing them a great harm. On the other hand if it offends someone then by all means I do agree it should not be used, God does not force himself on anyone, He gives us all a choice.

Just my take on what I see

Take care my friend

Hondo

Hi Papajedi
Very true Jesus gave his follower the power or ability to heal, I too love my doctors and respect what they do, I just don’t think they are the only ones who can help or heal our broken bodies.

The Bible tells me in James 5:14 that when I am sick I should go the Elders and have them pray and anoint me with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick.

God has more then one way to help his children and I believe our doctors are one of those ways. I also believe that if we today had the Faith that the disciples of Jesus had there would be no need of doctors.

Just my belief

Take care my friend

RE

Hondo said:

Hi Papajedi
Very true Jesus gave his follower the power or ability to heal, I too love my doctors and respect what they do, I just don’t think they are the only ones who can help or heal our broken bodies.

The Bible tells me in James 5:14 that when I am sick I should go the Elders and have them pray and anoint me with oil in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick.

God has more then one way to help his children and I believe our doctors are one of those ways. I also believe that if we today had the Faith that the disciples of Jesus had there would be no need of doctors.

Just my belief

Take care my friend

Hmmmm
Hondo since you are a believer you know that once the apple was taken off of the tree illness was inevitable and the medical field quite necessary. When I was first dx with cancer my pastor offered to do a laying of the hands ceremony where fellow believers led by my pastor would lay hands on me while led in prayer for my healing. I kindly opted out (which he probably figured I would) God knows I am ill and he walks with me through my illness, he holds me when I hurt and he rejoices when I heal. I was struck by your statement that we need to have the faith of the disciples, well my pastors wife had that kind of faith and she had stage 2 breast cancer. She allowed the surgery to remove the cancer, however she refused the chemo and opted for laying of the hands and prayer. She did okay for a bit, then it began to spread and she re-evaluated her decision and went to the oncologist to sign up for chemotherapy. As it turned out a cure was not to be because it had spread too much during the time chemo treatment was denied after a couple of years (time chemo bought her to be with her young children) she passed. God gives us free will and choices, sometimes we choose a path that does lead to a cure, this woman had more faith than anyone I have ever known and made the choices she did I suspect as a witness to her church family, it so saddens me . I will tell you that taking the chemo opened a whole new world to her, she found that by her faith and grace she was able to teach others about the Lord while chemo was being pumped into her veins, she is now in Heaven and the world is a little less light. I tell you this because I fear that people will seek non traditional medicine rather than life saving chemo as a statement of faith. I have no problem with non traditional medicine working in conjunction with traditional medicine as long as your oncologist is aware of it as you do not want to have a bad reaction of the mix. I do believe in miracles, I do! My second cancer was a stage four to the sentinel node and chest wall. I was to be given 18 rounds of chemo and ten more weeks of rads (which I did have) however after the first chemo the bulging mass in my chest which had been left there as a marker to see if the chemo was doing its job had went a way, disappeared it was gone! I was pleased because after all that is what the plan was to kill the cancer. The following week when I went to see my oncologist he was utterly shocked, he pressed hard on my chest where the mass had been and he looked at me in bewilderment because it was gone. I told him well isn't that what we thought would happen and he state yes it was but in all his years he had never seen it happen in one treatment. My best to you and yours, folks out there who consider not taking chemo please reconsider it is doable and it can extend your life.

RE

Hondo

RE said:

Hmmmm
Hondo since you are a believer you know that once the apple was taken off of the tree illness was inevitable and the medical field quite necessary. When I was first dx with cancer my pastor offered to do a laying of the hands ceremony where fellow believers led by my pastor would lay hands on me while led in prayer for my healing. I kindly opted out (which he probably figured I would) God knows I am ill and he walks with me through my illness, he holds me when I hurt and he rejoices when I heal. I was struck by your statement that we need to have the faith of the disciples, well my pastors wife had that kind of faith and she had stage 2 breast cancer. She allowed the surgery to remove the cancer, however she refused the chemo and opted for laying of the hands and prayer. She did okay for a bit, then it began to spread and she re-evaluated her decision and went to the oncologist to sign up for chemotherapy. As it turned out a cure was not to be because it had spread too much during the time chemo treatment was denied after a couple of years (time chemo bought her to be with her young children) she passed. God gives us free will and choices, sometimes we choose a path that does lead to a cure, this woman had more faith than anyone I have ever known and made the choices she did I suspect as a witness to her church family, it so saddens me . I will tell you that taking the chemo opened a whole new world to her, she found that by her faith and grace she was able to teach others about the Lord while chemo was being pumped into her veins, she is now in Heaven and the world is a little less light. I tell you this because I fear that people will seek non traditional medicine rather than life saving chemo as a statement of faith. I have no problem with non traditional medicine working in conjunction with traditional medicine as long as your oncologist is aware of it as you do not want to have a bad reaction of the mix. I do believe in miracles, I do! My second cancer was a stage four to the sentinel node and chest wall. I was to be given 18 rounds of chemo and ten more weeks of rads (which I did have) however after the first chemo the bulging mass in my chest which had been left there as a marker to see if the chemo was doing its job had went a way, disappeared it was gone! I was pleased because after all that is what the plan was to kill the cancer. The following week when I went to see my oncologist he was utterly shocked, he pressed hard on my chest where the mass had been and he looked at me in bewilderment because it was gone. I told him well isn't that what we thought would happen and he state yes it was but in all his years he had never seen it happen in one treatment. My best to you and yours, folks out there who consider not taking chemo please reconsider it is doable and it can extend your life.

RE

apple
RE: are you sure it was an apple and not a lemon; it sure had been sour for mankind.

You asked a question and as I understand it why does God heal some people and not others, this too has always been one of my questions. Especially when I see so many good people dying of horrible diseases and I ask God why?

My Mother like your friend was a good Christian woman; she supported her church and sent all of her children to catholic school. All of her life she was faithful in everything she done, so why did she die of colon cancer at the age of 57 what not 67 or 77 or even 87. It’s been almost 30 years now and I still remember her and remember the things she taught me, I am sadden not to have her in my children’s life. She never prayed for herself to be healed, she always prayed for others to be healed, Why!

It is only now that I understand my Mother and her faith; she already knew whose hands she was in.

I believe that when these Christian people have finish there work here on this earth, God allows them to rest, it is not why they died but what they leave behind for others to follow that counts.

My Local Onclo dc knows what I am doing and monitors me every few months. He is a Christian man who I believe in and trust, as he told me when I finished my second treatment, Its all in Gods hand now I’ve done all I can do., sound just like my Mother speaking.

Take care

RE

Hondo said:

apple
RE: are you sure it was an apple and not a lemon; it sure had been sour for mankind.

You asked a question and as I understand it why does God heal some people and not others, this too has always been one of my questions. Especially when I see so many good people dying of horrible diseases and I ask God why?

My Mother like your friend was a good Christian woman; she supported her church and sent all of her children to catholic school. All of her life she was faithful in everything she done, so why did she die of colon cancer at the age of 57 what not 67 or 77 or even 87. It’s been almost 30 years now and I still remember her and remember the things she taught me, I am sadden not to have her in my children’s life. She never prayed for herself to be healed, she always prayed for others to be healed, Why!

It is only now that I understand my Mother and her faith; she already knew whose hands she was in.

I believe that when these Christian people have finish there work here on this earth, God allows them to rest, it is not why they died but what they leave behind for others to follow that counts.

My Local Onclo dc knows what I am doing and monitors me every few months. He is a Christian man who I believe in and trust, as he told me when I finished my second treatment, Its all in Gods hand now I’ve done all I can do., sound just like my Mother speaking.

Take care

:-)
Lemon instead of an apple, perhaps. I am sorry for your loss even though it has been a long time I am sure you miss her. I am glad to hear your onco is working with you in conjunction with your non traditional care that is a good thing indeed.

Sorry if I misled you with my post, I was not asking why some folks die and others do not we all die sometime. I have never asked the why me question, if not cancer it would be something else. I was only making an observation that we have freedom of choice and sometimes those choices lead to our lives ending sooner rather than later.

My best to you,

RE

PhillieG

Yes, I do think so
The majority of posts in the spirituality forum have to do with Christianity. In one thread, a woman asked questions about reincarnation and her concern about meeting her late husband in the next incarnation and one person replied how "all of her answers were in the Gospel"*.
So that is a very big YES in answer to your question RE.

*thankfully the comment was removed

DennisR

Hondo said:

apple
RE: are you sure it was an apple and not a lemon; it sure had been sour for mankind.

You asked a question and as I understand it why does God heal some people and not others, this too has always been one of my questions. Especially when I see so many good people dying of horrible diseases and I ask God why?

My Mother like your friend was a good Christian woman; she supported her church and sent all of her children to catholic school. All of her life she was faithful in everything she done, so why did she die of colon cancer at the age of 57 what not 67 or 77 or even 87. It’s been almost 30 years now and I still remember her and remember the things she taught me, I am sadden not to have her in my children’s life. She never prayed for herself to be healed, she always prayed for others to be healed, Why!

It is only now that I understand my Mother and her faith; she already knew whose hands she was in.

I believe that when these Christian people have finish there work here on this earth, God allows them to rest, it is not why they died but what they leave behind for others to follow that counts.

My Local Onclo dc knows what I am doing and monitors me every few months. He is a Christian man who I believe in and trust, as he told me when I finished my second treatment, Its all in Gods hand now I’ve done all I can do., sound just like my Mother speaking.

Take care

I agree Hondo,
and have
I agree Hondo,
and have concluded, (after a lot of questioning of His infinite Wisdom and Compassion) that perhaps He doesn't consider death to be the worst thing that can happen to one of His children. I've realized a great deal of comfort from that conclusion through the recent loss of nearly my entire family, me being the last one standing out of seven, and more friends and acquaintences than I can count. Of the 12 Dear, Brave souls that were in the BMT ward at the time I was, only 2 of us are alive today, my young brother, only 47 yrs old w/a wife and three beautiful children, was Dxd and died in less than 4 months, only three days before I was to begin the BMT with less than 60/40 odds of surviving because of my age. I nearly backed out of the procedure, but asked Him for guidance and awoke in the morning with a clear course in my mind to continue and undergo the risky procedure. (Sorry...no voices, no burning bush...just an absolute knowledge that I would survive came to me in my sleep) I surprised everyone, not only did I survive, but recovered from the procedure more quickly than any patient they had ever had....they called me the miracle man)
The negative thought process regarding that inevitable and eventual outcome for all of us, is strictly a man made conclusion...Life is Good...Death is bad and to be feared.
I wish I could say that I've risen above that feeling, but Alas...I still resent and question the reason that so many are called, yet so few are chosen....and for what purpose does it all serve.
Sorry..this is a much longer comment than I had intended.

DennisR

Hondo

DennisR said:

I agree Hondo,
and have
I agree Hondo,
and have concluded, (after a lot of questioning of His infinite Wisdom and Compassion) that perhaps He doesn't consider death to be the worst thing that can happen to one of His children. I've realized a great deal of comfort from that conclusion through the recent loss of nearly my entire family, me being the last one standing out of seven, and more friends and acquaintences than I can count. Of the 12 Dear, Brave souls that were in the BMT ward at the time I was, only 2 of us are alive today, my young brother, only 47 yrs old w/a wife and three beautiful children, was Dxd and died in less than 4 months, only three days before I was to begin the BMT with less than 60/40 odds of surviving because of my age. I nearly backed out of the procedure, but asked Him for guidance and awoke in the morning with a clear course in my mind to continue and undergo the risky procedure. (Sorry...no voices, no burning bush...just an absolute knowledge that I would survive came to me in my sleep) I surprised everyone, not only did I survive, but recovered from the procedure more quickly than any patient they had ever had....they called me the miracle man)
The negative thought process regarding that inevitable and eventual outcome for all of us, is strictly a man made conclusion...Life is Good...Death is bad and to be feared.
I wish I could say that I've risen above that feeling, but Alas...I still resent and question the reason that so many are called, yet so few are chosen....and for what purpose does it all serve.
Sorry..this is a much longer comment than I had intended.

DennisR

Hi Dennis
Thanks for your post; I am sorry to hear about your lost, there memories live with us forever. The good news is that there is a day coming that we who have believed will all be together again. I want to share something with you, have you ever heard about the second death, I have no fear of the first death, my fear is in the second death recorded in Rev Rv:20:6 of which I want no part. The Bible is a storehouse of knowledge the keys of one book is what unlocks the other.

DennisR

Hondo said:

Hi Dennis
Thanks for your post; I am sorry to hear about your lost, there memories live with us forever. The good news is that there is a day coming that we who have believed will all be together again. I want to share something with you, have you ever heard about the second death, I have no fear of the first death, my fear is in the second death recorded in Rev Rv:20:6 of which I want no part. The Bible is a storehouse of knowledge the keys of one book is what unlocks the other.

Thank you, Hondo
for your
Thank you, Hondo
for your kind thoughts and wise words....if there were ever any times when I found myself truly questioning the infinite Wisdom of the Lord, it was during those times when others were taken from this life that I believed should have been spared.
Years ago, I learned that I didn't really know how to pray, or even what was appropriate to pray for, and after a lot of personal thought came to the conclusion that when I prayed for something, or prayed to alter the outcome of something, the results were almost always not exactly that which I more or less ordered or demanded in my prayers.... and usually not to my liking.
I've since determined, (after a fair amount of trial and error), to keep my personal prayers to asking for the Wisdom to Accept His Will, and not ordering Him to accept mine. I've found this practice to be much more comforting when things did't work out just the way I thought or prayed they would.

zahalene

DennisR said:

Thank you, Hondo
for your
Thank you, Hondo
for your kind thoughts and wise words....if there were ever any times when I found myself truly questioning the infinite Wisdom of the Lord, it was during those times when others were taken from this life that I believed should have been spared.
Years ago, I learned that I didn't really know how to pray, or even what was appropriate to pray for, and after a lot of personal thought came to the conclusion that when I prayed for something, or prayed to alter the outcome of something, the results were almost always not exactly that which I more or less ordered or demanded in my prayers.... and usually not to my liking.
I've since determined, (after a fair amount of trial and error), to keep my personal prayers to asking for the Wisdom to Accept His Will, and not ordering Him to accept mine. I've found this practice to be much more comforting when things did't work out just the way I thought or prayed they would.

The KEY
It seems that most of us are searching for 'the key' that will unlock peace, joy, hope, in our lives. I think you, Dennis, have come very close to finding it.
I too, for many years now, have concluded that prayer that asks for specifics or demands certain results is a dangerous thing. So many times I have been given what I asked for in ways that made the acquisition hard to take.
I believe with all my being that all of us (regardless of religious belief) have a spirit within us which can be our connection to a higher power, if we choose it to be, and that connection then becomes a path to what we seek. But that is not to say that the journey is always to our liking. How often can we suppose that, for the sake of argument for instance, being delayed by a flat tire put us out of the 'loop' for a car crash in the exact spot we would have been if not for the unexpected delay? I am only suggesting that things happen for a reason and just because we do not know or understand the reason does not make it any more or less applicable. Of course, there must surely be those times when that flat tire put us in the exact place at the exact time to become the victim of a drive-by shooting.
That is why I leave it up to a greater Power than mine to order things and pray only for the wisdom of acceptance.

mariam_11_09

so I have a question. This

so I have a question. This board is for spirituality, prayer and meditation so where does the religion come in?

One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual

Most spiritual people have some form of prayer and meditation. And each religion has some form of mysticism - the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc.

Just curious. As noted above on these boards there is a strong Christian tendency so am curious to know how Christians view this. Or at least the ones on this board.

PhillieG

mariam_11_09 said:

so I have a question. This

so I have a question. This board is for spirituality, prayer and meditation so where does the religion come in?

One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual

Most spiritual people have some form of prayer and meditation. And each religion has some form of mysticism - the Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc.

Just curious. As noted above on these boards there is a strong Christian tendency so am curious to know how Christians view this. Or at least the ones on this board.

Too many words in the title maybe?
To me there is a VERY big difference between religion and spirituality. YOU summed it up very well with your comment:
"One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual"

To me, being raised catholic but now in recovery (as I put it) religion seems to be an organization where others of like belief can get together to discuss it and hopefully practice what is taught there. It also seems to me to be rules of the "what you can do and can not do".

_{Strong Christian tendency? Ya think so???}

mariam_11_09

PhillieG said:

Too many words in the title maybe?
To me there is a VERY big difference between religion and spirituality. YOU summed it up very well with your comment:
"One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual"

To me, being raised catholic but now in recovery (as I put it) religion seems to be an organization where others of like belief can get together to discuss it and hopefully practice what is taught there. It also seems to me to be rules of the "what you can do and can not do".

_{Strong Christian tendency? Ya think so???}

It is a way of life governed by some external guidelines that if you follow them it will bring you closer or into the presence of God. As you mentioned a set of rules of what you can and cannot do. For some people this actually works, that is following the guidelines, going about these actions they eventually come to realise God in a deeper way. For others this does not work at all, a different approach is required, to realise God in a deeper way and then the actions start to reflect this. The later is usually more spiritually based from the start and former initially more religiously based eventually to become more spiritually based.

RE

PhillieG said:

Too many words in the title maybe?
To me there is a VERY big difference between religion and spirituality. YOU summed it up very well with your comment:
"One can be religious and not spiritual (ie more culturally based than spiritually)
One can be spiritual and not religious
One can be religious and spiritual"

To me, being raised catholic but now in recovery (as I put it) religion seems to be an organization where others of like belief can get together to discuss it and hopefully practice what is taught there. It also seems to me to be rules of the "what you can do and can not do".

_{Strong Christian tendency? Ya think so???}

I disagree
Well I am afraid I disagree with you both, the old testament gave us the ten commandments to follow as God’s law, of course being the humans we are we failed. God knew we would, after all he is God. To allow forgiveness he sent his son Jesus to willingly die on the cross (at any time he could have reneged) and the pack was sealed those who choose to freely accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior have their name written in the book of life those who choose not to do so take a different path upon death. The old testament was about rules, however once the Lord sent Jesus to die for our sins the rules are still there and yes they should be followed however your salvation is not revoked if you falter. As a follower of God we should have a respect for his desires for us and we should strive to behave in a Christ like manner. Now I know that is not always doable because we are human I certainly do not do it as Christ would like me to. It is my belief that someday we will have to stand before God and account for our life; I know this because I was witness to it as my sister did so the last day of her life. We will account for our wrongs and our rights, we will atone and if we have sincerely asked God into our lives we will be forgiven. I have always known there was a God, since childhood I have never not know it is just something that has always been there. I have felt his presence in a most personal soul reaching manner and I have disappointed him in that same soul reaching manner, but the Lord had never nor will he ever erase my name from the book of life as I know he is there and I know he is the creator of all that is or ever will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega of that I have no doubt.

Your Friend,

RE

PhillieG

RE said:

I disagree
Well I am afraid I disagree with you both, the old testament gave us the ten commandments to follow as God’s law, of course being the humans we are we failed. God knew we would, after all he is God. To allow forgiveness he sent his son Jesus to willingly die on the cross (at any time he could have reneged) and the pack was sealed those who choose to freely accept Christ as their personal Lord and Savior have their name written in the book of life those who choose not to do so take a different path upon death. The old testament was about rules, however once the Lord sent Jesus to die for our sins the rules are still there and yes they should be followed however your salvation is not revoked if you falter. As a follower of God we should have a respect for his desires for us and we should strive to behave in a Christ like manner. Now I know that is not always doable because we are human I certainly do not do it as Christ would like me to. It is my belief that someday we will have to stand before God and account for our life; I know this because I was witness to it as my sister did so the last day of her life. We will account for our wrongs and our rights, we will atone and if we have sincerely asked God into our lives we will be forgiven. I have always known there was a God, since childhood I have never not know it is just something that has always been there. I have felt his presence in a most personal soul reaching manner and I have disappointed him in that same soul reaching manner, but the Lord had never nor will he ever erase my name from the book of life as I know he is there and I know he is the creator of all that is or ever will be. He is the Alpha and the Omega of that I have no doubt.

Your Friend,

RE

But
I respect your beliefs RE but they look to me that they are based on the belief that God, as understood from the bible, is the one and only being that all spirituality is based upon.

Do you believe that a person can be spiritual without being a believer in the christian God?

BTW: I believe in 7 of the 10 commandments.(that was part of a Steve Martin bit called "what I believe" from years ago)

I actually think they are mostly good common sense guidelines to live one's life. The golden rule is the main way I try to live my life, I know it's not a commandment. But just thinking now at what the 10 commandments are called...Commands. Pretty heavy stuff with dire consequences that are not followed that often it seems in many people's lives with the exception of thou shalt not kill.