Taking care of a spouse/partner
Comments
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Caring for spouse
Although I think there may be differences for more elderly couples that have been together for years and years,I feel many couples regardless of age can relate with you. We have been together for 7 years,battling cancer for the last 2. There are times I feel like I can't breath...my life has been plucked from me and I'm not even ill. I stay up late at night and get up early for a small amount of peace...I'm exausted from lack of rest. I always read what you post and relate to your out-pouring of emotions. I don't even feel like a woman anymore..I feel like a hired maid,cook,financer,counsler,servant,etc.etc.etc.! My husband tells me how Lucky I am not to be ill{o.k., I know I don't have cancer}but I certainly do not feel Lucky. I have no true Joy in my life...just going thru the motions to get thru another day that was just like the day before and the one before that. I love my husband...I just wish he would show me a small amount of empathy for all I do and try to understand that my life has been turned upside down also because of this horrible disease.0 -
Separating because of these issuestrish07 said:Caring for spouse
Although I think there may be differences for more elderly couples that have been together for years and years,I feel many couples regardless of age can relate with you. We have been together for 7 years,battling cancer for the last 2. There are times I feel like I can't breath...my life has been plucked from me and I'm not even ill. I stay up late at night and get up early for a small amount of peace...I'm exausted from lack of rest. I always read what you post and relate to your out-pouring of emotions. I don't even feel like a woman anymore..I feel like a hired maid,cook,financer,counsler,servant,etc.etc.etc.! My husband tells me how Lucky I am not to be ill{o.k., I know I don't have cancer}but I certainly do not feel Lucky. I have no true Joy in my life...just going thru the motions to get thru another day that was just like the day before and the one before that. I love my husband...I just wish he would show me a small amount of empathy for all I do and try to understand that my life has been turned upside down also because of this horrible disease.
My wife is just entering her last 4 week cycle of chemotherapy, and we agreed on Sunday that we will be separating once she is feeling better and able to cope without me. We have been told that may take up to a year, and I will not abandon her while she is sick, but we both a agree a separation is necessary, and that our marriage is effectively over.
The cancer last year was a horrible experience, but the chemotherapy has been worse for both of us. The prognosis is very good for her health, but the prognosis for our marriage is dire.
I've read a lot of posts of people who got divorced after chemo therapy, and most say that the cancer / treatment just highlighted marital problems that had always existed. For us, cancer / chemotherapy has destroyed what was a beautiful marriage of nearly 13 years. I mourn what we have lost.
I relate to your comment, "I feel like a hired maid, cook, financer, counsler, servant, etc. etc. etc.", but I can honestly tell you that I would happily do all of it for another year of chemo if my wife would only trust and appreciate me. Instead, she just tells me that I can never understand, that she does not trust me with her feelings because I don't understand, and she even went as far as to tell me that she would pick another man from her therapy group to comfort her physically if she gets sick again instead of me. Ouch.
She has surrounded herself with a group of cancer survivors who tell her that it is OK to stay negative about life and to only trust members of the "cancer club." Her main support mentor is 1 month away from his 5 year mark, and he has more unresolved cancer issues than my wife. He still goes to the hospital once every other month or so to get a blood test because he is so sure that the cancer is back. By the way - he divorced his second wife shortly after his chemo was over - a road map for our divorce. This is who she seeks counsel from. This was with the blessing of her therapist, who knows how hard this has been on our marriage.
By the way - I have made some huge mistakes during this period, but who wouldn't? I take my share of the blame, but I am human and can only bend so much. For nearly a year, I have been the only breadwinner, and for the last 6 months I have been the primary caregiver to our children. I have done everything that my wife has allowed me to do - which is everything that needed to be done around the house and for the kids, but nothing that would help her cancer recovery - she won't let me go there.
My post may be wandering from the topic, but we are a 39 year old couple going through a tough time.
Cancer is evil.0 -
Cancer changes everythinggthufford said:Separating because of these issues
My wife is just entering her last 4 week cycle of chemotherapy, and we agreed on Sunday that we will be separating once she is feeling better and able to cope without me. We have been told that may take up to a year, and I will not abandon her while she is sick, but we both a agree a separation is necessary, and that our marriage is effectively over.
The cancer last year was a horrible experience, but the chemotherapy has been worse for both of us. The prognosis is very good for her health, but the prognosis for our marriage is dire.
I've read a lot of posts of people who got divorced after chemo therapy, and most say that the cancer / treatment just highlighted marital problems that had always existed. For us, cancer / chemotherapy has destroyed what was a beautiful marriage of nearly 13 years. I mourn what we have lost.
I relate to your comment, "I feel like a hired maid, cook, financer, counsler, servant, etc. etc. etc.", but I can honestly tell you that I would happily do all of it for another year of chemo if my wife would only trust and appreciate me. Instead, she just tells me that I can never understand, that she does not trust me with her feelings because I don't understand, and she even went as far as to tell me that she would pick another man from her therapy group to comfort her physically if she gets sick again instead of me. Ouch.
She has surrounded herself with a group of cancer survivors who tell her that it is OK to stay negative about life and to only trust members of the "cancer club." Her main support mentor is 1 month away from his 5 year mark, and he has more unresolved cancer issues than my wife. He still goes to the hospital once every other month or so to get a blood test because he is so sure that the cancer is back. By the way - he divorced his second wife shortly after his chemo was over - a road map for our divorce. This is who she seeks counsel from. This was with the blessing of her therapist, who knows how hard this has been on our marriage.
By the way - I have made some huge mistakes during this period, but who wouldn't? I take my share of the blame, but I am human and can only bend so much. For nearly a year, I have been the only breadwinner, and for the last 6 months I have been the primary caregiver to our children. I have done everything that my wife has allowed me to do - which is everything that needed to be done around the house and for the kids, but nothing that would help her cancer recovery - she won't let me go there.
My post may be wandering from the topic, but we are a 39 year old couple going through a tough time.
Cancer is evil.
trish07 and gthufford,
My husband and I have been married for over 11 years. Our relationship since the day we met has been loving and wonderful. Ever since my husband was diagnosed with cancer over 5 years ago our marriage has slowly started to deteriorate. We love each other dearly, but the strain of his constant struggle and my stress over holding our lives together has taken its toll. We find it difficult to find comfort in each other as both of us have changed so dramatically due to the trauma that cancer has constantly placed in our lives. I understand what each of you is going through. I feel I've been cheated out of my happy marriage and my future with my husband.
lily330 -
To all the above posters....lily33 said:Cancer changes everything
trish07 and gthufford,
My husband and I have been married for over 11 years. Our relationship since the day we met has been loving and wonderful. Ever since my husband was diagnosed with cancer over 5 years ago our marriage has slowly started to deteriorate. We love each other dearly, but the strain of his constant struggle and my stress over holding our lives together has taken its toll. We find it difficult to find comfort in each other as both of us have changed so dramatically due to the trauma that cancer has constantly placed in our lives. I understand what each of you is going through. I feel I've been cheated out of my happy marriage and my future with my husband.
lily33
My marriage also bit the dust after cancer (mine).
It has been over 23 years since I was first diagnosed and over 13 years since my (now ex) hubby left me. So I am looking at this from a much longer perspective than any of you guys have yet had a chance to develop.
The one thing I wanted to say is that I believe it is a huge mistake to make any permanent or irrevocable decisions while in the midst of, or even for awhile after, the cancer experience. Cancer changes everyone it touches, the survivor as well at the caregiver. But, those changes are not always, by any means, for the worse, AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN PROCESSED AND ASSIMILATED. And then, also, you have the effects of stress, medications, etc. on the mind, body, and spirit, which are making it virtually impossible for anyone to think, feel, and evaluate 'normally' during the crisis time.
I truly believe I am a kinder, gentler, more compassionate person than I was before cancer. Too bad my ex did not want to stick around and get to know the person I am today. I think he would have been pleased.0 -
It is what it is. You are what you are.
Cancer is not genetically predisposed to ruin marriages or other relationships. Call it evil if it makes you feel better, blame it for your travails, cite it for psychic dysfunction, do what you will, say what you will, mesmerize yourself with the notion that it is not your fault, that cancer is to blame for everything, and the truth, the single, the utter, truth will remain: cancer is not evil.
Cancer does not ruin marriages or relationships. It does not.
It is certainly an enabler and a convenient scapegoat. I understand that it brings hardships, great hardships, along with fear and anxiety and even inconvenience.
But I am not buying.
Lily intimates that perhaps young folks have different issues with respect to this cancer jag. I would argue that she is correct in at least one way: younger folks tend to be more self-centered, more self-absorbed, more for-the-minute types, especially these days. You know: "what have you done for me lately?"
That would be a gross misjustice to the majority of young folks dealing with cancer as either survivors or caregivers, of course (and even those who are not, on more careful consideration). Most are enduring, most are coping, most are adapting. If anything, young folks tend to adapt better than us old Baby Boomers. For the most part.
I stereotyped, purposefully, to illuminate lily's own stereotype, that somehow older folks do not experience or understand the issues that the 'younger' folks face.
That is complete nonsense.
As it turns out, many people who have lived together for a great many years actually continue to love each other. I know! Who woulda thunk it?
And since they are not so young and vibrant and strong and energetic any more, when they provide care for a loved one it is probably even more taxing than what some of you are experiencing and lamenting about.
Being old, incidentally, does not mean they do not have desires, does not mean they do not crave physical AND emotional affection. Those things do not disappear when you reach a certain age, as far as I can tell. These people simply know well enough to subsume those needs for the immediate needs of their loved one.
If your love, the love of your life until cancer destroyed it or brought its evil ways into your lives and all of that garbage, isn't worthy of that, that subsuming of your own needs, then I would argue that it never was.
Cancer simply speeds things along and that it only does for the less resolute of us or for that which was going to happen anyway.
Don't blame it. Don't use it as an excuse.
It is what it is.
You are what you are.
Take care,
Joe0 -
on the recordtrish07 said:Caring for spouse
Although I think there may be differences for more elderly couples that have been together for years and years,I feel many couples regardless of age can relate with you. We have been together for 7 years,battling cancer for the last 2. There are times I feel like I can't breath...my life has been plucked from me and I'm not even ill. I stay up late at night and get up early for a small amount of peace...I'm exausted from lack of rest. I always read what you post and relate to your out-pouring of emotions. I don't even feel like a woman anymore..I feel like a hired maid,cook,financer,counsler,servant,etc.etc.etc.! My husband tells me how Lucky I am not to be ill{o.k., I know I don't have cancer}but I certainly do not feel Lucky. I have no true Joy in my life...just going thru the motions to get thru another day that was just like the day before and the one before that. I love my husband...I just wish he would show me a small amount of empathy for all I do and try to understand that my life has been turned upside down also because of this horrible disease.
Trish, let me go on record, once again, as saying that I believe you have a much harder job than your survivor husband has.
Given the choice of dealing with cancer as a survivor or caregiver, I would say 'Give it to me' every single time. I would not wish it on my loved ones.
I feel for you.
Your husband needs to understand that he is being extremely selfish. I don't know the details of his battle, or yours, but it needs to be made clear to him that for every hardship he has faced, you have faced not only that one, but also the caring for him.
He needs to know, as I do, that without my wife, my significant caregiver, I would be dead.
I would be dead.
I salute you, trish, and wish you the best, including a realization by hub that you are at least half of this team.
Hang in there. He is apt to come around. He is.
Take care,
Joe0 -
Are You Kidding Me?soccerfreaks said:It is what it is. You are what you are.
Cancer is not genetically predisposed to ruin marriages or other relationships. Call it evil if it makes you feel better, blame it for your travails, cite it for psychic dysfunction, do what you will, say what you will, mesmerize yourself with the notion that it is not your fault, that cancer is to blame for everything, and the truth, the single, the utter, truth will remain: cancer is not evil.
Cancer does not ruin marriages or relationships. It does not.
It is certainly an enabler and a convenient scapegoat. I understand that it brings hardships, great hardships, along with fear and anxiety and even inconvenience.
But I am not buying.
Lily intimates that perhaps young folks have different issues with respect to this cancer jag. I would argue that she is correct in at least one way: younger folks tend to be more self-centered, more self-absorbed, more for-the-minute types, especially these days. You know: "what have you done for me lately?"
That would be a gross misjustice to the majority of young folks dealing with cancer as either survivors or caregivers, of course (and even those who are not, on more careful consideration). Most are enduring, most are coping, most are adapting. If anything, young folks tend to adapt better than us old Baby Boomers. For the most part.
I stereotyped, purposefully, to illuminate lily's own stereotype, that somehow older folks do not experience or understand the issues that the 'younger' folks face.
That is complete nonsense.
As it turns out, many people who have lived together for a great many years actually continue to love each other. I know! Who woulda thunk it?
And since they are not so young and vibrant and strong and energetic any more, when they provide care for a loved one it is probably even more taxing than what some of you are experiencing and lamenting about.
Being old, incidentally, does not mean they do not have desires, does not mean they do not crave physical AND emotional affection. Those things do not disappear when you reach a certain age, as far as I can tell. These people simply know well enough to subsume those needs for the immediate needs of their loved one.
If your love, the love of your life until cancer destroyed it or brought its evil ways into your lives and all of that garbage, isn't worthy of that, that subsuming of your own needs, then I would argue that it never was.
Cancer simply speeds things along and that it only does for the less resolute of us or for that which was going to happen anyway.
Don't blame it. Don't use it as an excuse.
It is what it is.
You are what you are.
Take care,
Joe
Joe,
After reading your response I will admit I'm angry. Actually very angry. I appreciate your point of view simply because I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion. However I do not believe you have a right to judge any marriage that you have no intimate knowledge of what-so-ever. Your journey may have filled you with the belief that you can judge others as you see fit...I do not.
Don't you DARE act as if you know ANYTHING about my marriage or those of any other cancer survivor/caregiver. My experience IS different because I had to deal with my husbands cancer at age 28. Did you have to figure out how to raise a 2 and 4 year old, and go through 9 months of pregnancy on your own while sitting by your spouses side in intensive care for 3 months? NO YOU DID NOT. You do not understand that experience. I will be a widow before the age of 35 Joe and raise 3 kids on my own...sorry to tell you but that IS a different experience then someone dealing with cancer at age 60. My experience is no better or worse than yours, but it IS different.
Also Joe, you have some nerve insinuating that gthufford or my marriage is suffering because we are shallow and self-centered. Do not dare to insinuate that our marriages were always doomed because cancer is destroying them. You have no idea what I or any other caregiver has given up for the love and care of their spouse. Congratulations Joe that your marriage has survived. How about some compassion for those of us struggling instead of judging. I was under the impression that this site was to HELP others cope with their pain...not make them feel like inadequate spouses or caregivers. And by the way Joe...cancer is evil.
lily330 -
Thank youzahalene said:To all the above posters....
My marriage also bit the dust after cancer (mine).
It has been over 23 years since I was first diagnosed and over 13 years since my (now ex) hubby left me. So I am looking at this from a much longer perspective than any of you guys have yet had a chance to develop.
The one thing I wanted to say is that I believe it is a huge mistake to make any permanent or irrevocable decisions while in the midst of, or even for awhile after, the cancer experience. Cancer changes everyone it touches, the survivor as well at the caregiver. But, those changes are not always, by any means, for the worse, AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN PROCESSED AND ASSIMILATED. And then, also, you have the effects of stress, medications, etc. on the mind, body, and spirit, which are making it virtually impossible for anyone to think, feel, and evaluate 'normally' during the crisis time.
I truly believe I am a kinder, gentler, more compassionate person than I was before cancer. Too bad my ex did not want to stick around and get to know the person I am today. I think he would have been pleased.
Zahalene (I love that user name!),
Thank you so much. I am going to copy your post and share it with my wife. When we decided to separate (we now have a target date of Nov 1 for the separation), we agreed that we would give it 6 months and then re-assess. My hope is for a reconciliation at that time, but there is no stopping the separation at this time.
Thank you for your insight!0 -
Judgingsoccerfreaks said:It is what it is. You are what you are.
Cancer is not genetically predisposed to ruin marriages or other relationships. Call it evil if it makes you feel better, blame it for your travails, cite it for psychic dysfunction, do what you will, say what you will, mesmerize yourself with the notion that it is not your fault, that cancer is to blame for everything, and the truth, the single, the utter, truth will remain: cancer is not evil.
Cancer does not ruin marriages or relationships. It does not.
It is certainly an enabler and a convenient scapegoat. I understand that it brings hardships, great hardships, along with fear and anxiety and even inconvenience.
But I am not buying.
Lily intimates that perhaps young folks have different issues with respect to this cancer jag. I would argue that she is correct in at least one way: younger folks tend to be more self-centered, more self-absorbed, more for-the-minute types, especially these days. You know: "what have you done for me lately?"
That would be a gross misjustice to the majority of young folks dealing with cancer as either survivors or caregivers, of course (and even those who are not, on more careful consideration). Most are enduring, most are coping, most are adapting. If anything, young folks tend to adapt better than us old Baby Boomers. For the most part.
I stereotyped, purposefully, to illuminate lily's own stereotype, that somehow older folks do not experience or understand the issues that the 'younger' folks face.
That is complete nonsense.
As it turns out, many people who have lived together for a great many years actually continue to love each other. I know! Who woulda thunk it?
And since they are not so young and vibrant and strong and energetic any more, when they provide care for a loved one it is probably even more taxing than what some of you are experiencing and lamenting about.
Being old, incidentally, does not mean they do not have desires, does not mean they do not crave physical AND emotional affection. Those things do not disappear when you reach a certain age, as far as I can tell. These people simply know well enough to subsume those needs for the immediate needs of their loved one.
If your love, the love of your life until cancer destroyed it or brought its evil ways into your lives and all of that garbage, isn't worthy of that, that subsuming of your own needs, then I would argue that it never was.
Cancer simply speeds things along and that it only does for the less resolute of us or for that which was going to happen anyway.
Don't blame it. Don't use it as an excuse.
It is what it is.
You are what you are.
Take care,
Joe
Joe,
You are free to your opinion. However, one of the differences between my post (an others) and yours is that you are judging us and our situations with very little information. You may feel entitled to do this for some reason, but it really is not a fair or compassionate thing to do. Shame on you.
This forum is great because it allows for a diversity of view points, all of which are valuable. However, I question your motives, and you need to know that your post does nothing but rub salt in the wounds of those of us going through tough times. If your intention was to cause more pain to an already difficult situation, you have done so.
Luckily, there are a number of other positive people who have actually offered constructive advice. Thanks to all of them - they make it worth posting difficult and personal issues on this website.
By the way - cancer is evil.0 -
my last words on the subjectlily33 said:Are You Kidding Me?
Joe,
After reading your response I will admit I'm angry. Actually very angry. I appreciate your point of view simply because I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion. However I do not believe you have a right to judge any marriage that you have no intimate knowledge of what-so-ever. Your journey may have filled you with the belief that you can judge others as you see fit...I do not.
Don't you DARE act as if you know ANYTHING about my marriage or those of any other cancer survivor/caregiver. My experience IS different because I had to deal with my husbands cancer at age 28. Did you have to figure out how to raise a 2 and 4 year old, and go through 9 months of pregnancy on your own while sitting by your spouses side in intensive care for 3 months? NO YOU DID NOT. You do not understand that experience. I will be a widow before the age of 35 Joe and raise 3 kids on my own...sorry to tell you but that IS a different experience then someone dealing with cancer at age 60. My experience is no better or worse than yours, but it IS different.
Also Joe, you have some nerve insinuating that gthufford or my marriage is suffering because we are shallow and self-centered. Do not dare to insinuate that our marriages were always doomed because cancer is destroying them. You have no idea what I or any other caregiver has given up for the love and care of their spouse. Congratulations Joe that your marriage has survived. How about some compassion for those of us struggling instead of judging. I was under the impression that this site was to HELP others cope with their pain...not make them feel like inadequate spouses or caregivers. And by the way Joe...cancer is evil.
lily33
As a wonderful and intelligent lady wrote on this very site, when a respondent apologized for disagreeing with her original post (and I paraphrase), "If I just wanted to hear from people that agreed with me, I wouldn't post in here."
As an equally wonderful and observant lady responded to me today regarding posts on these boards (and, again, I paraphrase), "Sometimes people do not post to get opinions but to get permission to do what they are going to do anyway."
I cannot, I will not, apologize for expressing my opinion, unless, after re-reading, I consider that I was grossly unfair or even myopic. I will not apologize here. I will say that if I 'rubbed salt in wounds' that was certainly not my intent, is rarely, if ever, my intent.
I responded to what I consider a stereotype about the old relative to the young and the relative effects of cancer on the lives of each. I responded with the comment that the young are more self-absorbed, more self-centered.
I IMMEDIATELY followed that with the most important proviso that I was providing a FURTHER STEREOTYPE and that most young people are not self-absorbed nor self-centered. Perhaps this was missed in the translation. Perhaps someone was reading what one wanted to read or needed to read. Perhaps it hit a nerve?
As for judging without merit, without knowing what you have gone through, while it is almost certainly a waste of breath, I beg to differ. On the one hand, my judgement, if you want to call it that, and I assure you I was not judging anyone, my assessment was based on what has been provided. It can be no other way unless I know you personally and I do not, of course.
So, I am speaking from the facts as presented, not just in the post/responses here, but on these boards. I know of no other way to respond.
On the other hand, to presume that I know nothing of your trials and tribulations, that I know nothing of what a caregiver goes through on behalf of their loved one is extremely prejudicial in its own right.
I must assume that I know more of what you have gone through than you could possibly know of what I have gone through. I care enough to read, you see, and to try to help, whether I am successful or not.
I was 10 years younger than you when we lost our second child, full term, at birth. I was less than four years older than you when I laid on the floor next to my mom's gurney as she passed her final breaths. I was not much more than 10 years older than you when they split the bottom half of my face in half to replace half of my tongue while dissecting my neck as well. I was but two years older than that when they took out a lobe from my lung, and when they kept me in the hospital for nearly an entire month for an infection that they thought would kill me rather than cancer. I watched my wife through all of this, I saw her suffering, her anxiety, her grief. I think it is fairly common knowledge that I consider the caregiver's job more difficult than the survivor's. I think you know that firsthand if you read responses to your own posts.
And just for the record, Evil: 1 a: morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked [an evil impulse] b: arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct [a person of evil reputation].
Since these are typical usages for the word EVIL, I assumed that we all used them. By these standards, I would argue that cancer is not, cannot, be evil. It is not sentient. It does not have morals. It is a biological existence, a biological event. People are capable of evil. Cancer is not.
I say again: It is what it is.
You are what you are.
We are what we are.
Take care,
Joe0 -
My Final Wordssoccerfreaks said:my last words on the subject
As a wonderful and intelligent lady wrote on this very site, when a respondent apologized for disagreeing with her original post (and I paraphrase), "If I just wanted to hear from people that agreed with me, I wouldn't post in here."
As an equally wonderful and observant lady responded to me today regarding posts on these boards (and, again, I paraphrase), "Sometimes people do not post to get opinions but to get permission to do what they are going to do anyway."
I cannot, I will not, apologize for expressing my opinion, unless, after re-reading, I consider that I was grossly unfair or even myopic. I will not apologize here. I will say that if I 'rubbed salt in wounds' that was certainly not my intent, is rarely, if ever, my intent.
I responded to what I consider a stereotype about the old relative to the young and the relative effects of cancer on the lives of each. I responded with the comment that the young are more self-absorbed, more self-centered.
I IMMEDIATELY followed that with the most important proviso that I was providing a FURTHER STEREOTYPE and that most young people are not self-absorbed nor self-centered. Perhaps this was missed in the translation. Perhaps someone was reading what one wanted to read or needed to read. Perhaps it hit a nerve?
As for judging without merit, without knowing what you have gone through, while it is almost certainly a waste of breath, I beg to differ. On the one hand, my judgement, if you want to call it that, and I assure you I was not judging anyone, my assessment was based on what has been provided. It can be no other way unless I know you personally and I do not, of course.
So, I am speaking from the facts as presented, not just in the post/responses here, but on these boards. I know of no other way to respond.
On the other hand, to presume that I know nothing of your trials and tribulations, that I know nothing of what a caregiver goes through on behalf of their loved one is extremely prejudicial in its own right.
I must assume that I know more of what you have gone through than you could possibly know of what I have gone through. I care enough to read, you see, and to try to help, whether I am successful or not.
I was 10 years younger than you when we lost our second child, full term, at birth. I was less than four years older than you when I laid on the floor next to my mom's gurney as she passed her final breaths. I was not much more than 10 years older than you when they split the bottom half of my face in half to replace half of my tongue while dissecting my neck as well. I was but two years older than that when they took out a lobe from my lung, and when they kept me in the hospital for nearly an entire month for an infection that they thought would kill me rather than cancer. I watched my wife through all of this, I saw her suffering, her anxiety, her grief. I think it is fairly common knowledge that I consider the caregiver's job more difficult than the survivor's. I think you know that firsthand if you read responses to your own posts.
And just for the record, Evil: 1 a: morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked [an evil impulse] b: arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct [a person of evil reputation].
Since these are typical usages for the word EVIL, I assumed that we all used them. By these standards, I would argue that cancer is not, cannot, be evil. It is not sentient. It does not have morals. It is a biological existence, a biological event. People are capable of evil. Cancer is not.
I say again: It is what it is.
You are what you are.
We are what we are.
Take care,
Joe
Joe,
My original post simply asked if there were any young caregivers out there whose marriages/relationships were stressed. I believe that young caregivers do have some different issues-I never said they were more important than an older caregivers issues. For some reason you assumed my comment disregarded the struggles and emotional impact cancer has on older couples. I never said such things yet you obviously were offended for some reason. Everyone experiences stress and trauma in different ways. Just because cancer deteriorates or destroys some couples relationships doesn't mean their marriages were not strong and committed from the beginning.
People were brave enough to share their struggles in the hopes of finding comfort and support. You are entitled to your opinion. However, do you have to share it with such sarcasm and judgment? It just saddens me that your opinion was delivered in a harsh manner without any concern for the feelings of others.
lily330 -
Well saidlily33 said:My Final Words
Joe,
My original post simply asked if there were any young caregivers out there whose marriages/relationships were stressed. I believe that young caregivers do have some different issues-I never said they were more important than an older caregivers issues. For some reason you assumed my comment disregarded the struggles and emotional impact cancer has on older couples. I never said such things yet you obviously were offended for some reason. Everyone experiences stress and trauma in different ways. Just because cancer deteriorates or destroys some couples relationships doesn't mean their marriages were not strong and committed from the beginning.
People were brave enough to share their struggles in the hopes of finding comfort and support. You are entitled to your opinion. However, do you have to share it with such sarcasm and judgment? It just saddens me that your opinion was delivered in a harsh manner without any concern for the feelings of others.
lily33
Well said Lilly - thank you - ttys.0 -
another view
Lily I have read several of your posts and have not answered them because I was unsure how to do so. I am a three time cancer survivor, I was one of the caregivers to my sister and to my dear mother. I was home as a child while I watched the cancer drama unfold with with my parents. I watched in horror and dismay as my parents handled the first battle poorly, my dad was less than gallant. You see he could not fix it so it made him angry (he is a grab it by the horns kind of a man), happily he came around when it returned for a second, third, fourth and final assault. Then I come here and read your posts, I understand you have some real issues, that said it is important that you too understand that when you post something you are reaching all sort of cancer experiences and people. Some will rally around you while others may take offense or be confused by what you state. I myself was somewhere between offense and confusion along with sadness and hope for your husband and children. I am one of those who has a husband who rallied for me, never once became angry or wished I was just not there. I realize you did not say that, but your tone leans to that and can be interpreted in that way. I have seen both sides of cancer relationships and I can tell you from personal experience that when it seems as if your marriage is done with time it can survive. I do not think it is anyone’s intention to bash you or those in similar situations, it is just as a cancer survivor I cannot imagine how I would have felt had my husband expressed himself in like terms. We survive and some thrive because putting the medical aside we have reasons to, we are loved, desired and cherished. I myself felt as if my husband had been short change as I certainly am not the woman he married. I have one mauled breast, and one missing breast along with many surgical scars and lifetime after effects of cancer treatment, my husband assured me in no uncertain was I less in his eyes. I too was a stage 4 cancer, that was 12 years ago and although I have had to battle it again I am still here, we are still here and that is triumph over adversity. It would been easy for my man to move on, he makes much more money than I do and there are gals out there who would have moved right in. I am rambling because there is so much your post has awakened in me. The what if’s…..what if he did not want me because I am not the woman he married….it is a harsh statement that you most certainly have every right to make but please understand when you do there are those like myself who feel like we have been assaulted in a sense. To me it said you see cancer people as less valuable, you may not have meant that but that is what I heard. From your words it sounds as if your husband is stable as he is working and you say the medication has little side effects so it would seem to me he could live much longer than you are predicting, as I said I was a stage 4 twelve long years ago. I will stop now as my thoughts are swirling, just wanted to post another view and to say that we may not be who our spouses married, but we are of great value and we are worth the effort. I truly wish your husband, your children and you a good resolution to the current turmoil you describe especially for the children as I was once in their shoes and it is vivid in my mind what it was like to see the sadness in my parent’s lives as they struggled to learn how to have a future with cancer.
RE0 -
Thank you RE, I've read the prior posts many times over and wanted to respond as well, but couldn't find the words. You said "exactly" what was needed. Thank you so much! And I hope the others will calm down and realize that you're correct!RE said:another view
Lily I have read several of your posts and have not answered them because I was unsure how to do so. I am a three time cancer survivor, I was one of the caregivers to my sister and to my dear mother. I was home as a child while I watched the cancer drama unfold with with my parents. I watched in horror and dismay as my parents handled the first battle poorly, my dad was less than gallant. You see he could not fix it so it made him angry (he is a grab it by the horns kind of a man), happily he came around when it returned for a second, third, fourth and final assault. Then I come here and read your posts, I understand you have some real issues, that said it is important that you too understand that when you post something you are reaching all sort of cancer experiences and people. Some will rally around you while others may take offense or be confused by what you state. I myself was somewhere between offense and confusion along with sadness and hope for your husband and children. I am one of those who has a husband who rallied for me, never once became angry or wished I was just not there. I realize you did not say that, but your tone leans to that and can be interpreted in that way. I have seen both sides of cancer relationships and I can tell you from personal experience that when it seems as if your marriage is done with time it can survive. I do not think it is anyone’s intention to bash you or those in similar situations, it is just as a cancer survivor I cannot imagine how I would have felt had my husband expressed himself in like terms. We survive and some thrive because putting the medical aside we have reasons to, we are loved, desired and cherished. I myself felt as if my husband had been short change as I certainly am not the woman he married. I have one mauled breast, and one missing breast along with many surgical scars and lifetime after effects of cancer treatment, my husband assured me in no uncertain was I less in his eyes. I too was a stage 4 cancer, that was 12 years ago and although I have had to battle it again I am still here, we are still here and that is triumph over adversity. It would been easy for my man to move on, he makes much more money than I do and there are gals out there who would have moved right in. I am rambling because there is so much your post has awakened in me. The what if’s…..what if he did not want me because I am not the woman he married….it is a harsh statement that you most certainly have every right to make but please understand when you do there are those like myself who feel like we have been assaulted in a sense. To me it said you see cancer people as less valuable, you may not have meant that but that is what I heard. From your words it sounds as if your husband is stable as he is working and you say the medication has little side effects so it would seem to me he could live much longer than you are predicting, as I said I was a stage 4 twelve long years ago. I will stop now as my thoughts are swirling, just wanted to post another view and to say that we may not be who our spouses married, but we are of great value and we are worth the effort. I truly wish your husband, your children and you a good resolution to the current turmoil you describe especially for the children as I was once in their shoes and it is vivid in my mind what it was like to see the sadness in my parent’s lives as they struggled to learn how to have a future with cancer.
RE
PS Joe....You're right too!
Thanks again!0 -
Please don't...gthufford said:Thank you
Zahalene (I love that user name!),
Thank you so much. I am going to copy your post and share it with my wife. When we decided to separate (we now have a target date of Nov 1 for the separation), we agreed that we would give it 6 months and then re-assess. My hope is for a reconciliation at that time, but there is no stopping the separation at this time.
Thank you for your insight!
close your mind to any possibilities. Three months is long enough for almost anything to happen. And it always does in the cancer world. Sometimes it's good, sometimes not. But things WILL change.0 -
Thank YouRE said:another view
Lily I have read several of your posts and have not answered them because I was unsure how to do so. I am a three time cancer survivor, I was one of the caregivers to my sister and to my dear mother. I was home as a child while I watched the cancer drama unfold with with my parents. I watched in horror and dismay as my parents handled the first battle poorly, my dad was less than gallant. You see he could not fix it so it made him angry (he is a grab it by the horns kind of a man), happily he came around when it returned for a second, third, fourth and final assault. Then I come here and read your posts, I understand you have some real issues, that said it is important that you too understand that when you post something you are reaching all sort of cancer experiences and people. Some will rally around you while others may take offense or be confused by what you state. I myself was somewhere between offense and confusion along with sadness and hope for your husband and children. I am one of those who has a husband who rallied for me, never once became angry or wished I was just not there. I realize you did not say that, but your tone leans to that and can be interpreted in that way. I have seen both sides of cancer relationships and I can tell you from personal experience that when it seems as if your marriage is done with time it can survive. I do not think it is anyone’s intention to bash you or those in similar situations, it is just as a cancer survivor I cannot imagine how I would have felt had my husband expressed himself in like terms. We survive and some thrive because putting the medical aside we have reasons to, we are loved, desired and cherished. I myself felt as if my husband had been short change as I certainly am not the woman he married. I have one mauled breast, and one missing breast along with many surgical scars and lifetime after effects of cancer treatment, my husband assured me in no uncertain was I less in his eyes. I too was a stage 4 cancer, that was 12 years ago and although I have had to battle it again I am still here, we are still here and that is triumph over adversity. It would been easy for my man to move on, he makes much more money than I do and there are gals out there who would have moved right in. I am rambling because there is so much your post has awakened in me. The what if’s…..what if he did not want me because I am not the woman he married….it is a harsh statement that you most certainly have every right to make but please understand when you do there are those like myself who feel like we have been assaulted in a sense. To me it said you see cancer people as less valuable, you may not have meant that but that is what I heard. From your words it sounds as if your husband is stable as he is working and you say the medication has little side effects so it would seem to me he could live much longer than you are predicting, as I said I was a stage 4 twelve long years ago. I will stop now as my thoughts are swirling, just wanted to post another view and to say that we may not be who our spouses married, but we are of great value and we are worth the effort. I truly wish your husband, your children and you a good resolution to the current turmoil you describe especially for the children as I was once in their shoes and it is vivid in my mind what it was like to see the sadness in my parent’s lives as they struggled to learn how to have a future with cancer.
RE
I just want to thank you for your words. I(caregiver) got online line after an argument with my husband(survivor) with feelings of anger and frustration for the changes cancer has brought to our lives. Most of the time I find the postings support my thoughts and feelings and help me to know I am not losing my mind because others feel the same way. But in this instance I find that I was blaming him for what he cannot change,(he would if he could) and that he is giving me what he can. With no judgement on the discussion, it has reminded me he is worth the effort.
esined0 -
'Blessed are theesined said:Thank You
I just want to thank you for your words. I(caregiver) got online line after an argument with my husband(survivor) with feelings of anger and frustration for the changes cancer has brought to our lives. Most of the time I find the postings support my thoughts and feelings and help me to know I am not losing my mind because others feel the same way. But in this instance I find that I was blaming him for what he cannot change,(he would if he could) and that he is giving me what he can. With no judgement on the discussion, it has reminded me he is worth the effort.
esined
'Blessed are the peacemakers...'0 -
lily, i am old,, 64. i have
lily, i am old,, 64. i have been married 42 years. when my husband and i started on this journey i too had trouble dealing with his cancer. everyday something new came, chemo not working, blood clots in the lung. he had just started a business with our sons and could no longer guided them. so i watched my oldest child at the age of 31 lead. this was not new to him but here he was his father with cancer, a new family and a new business to run. it was stressful for all of us even though my 4 sons were ages 31 to 21 they were afraid to lose the father they loved all those years. i know you are afraid but so are your children and your husband. i know with young children you must be thinking how will i care for them if he dies. often young couples both have careers and live on both incomes, that can be a problem. i am just wondering if you feel that your children will be better off without their father? i will not judge you just suggest that you get some help. ask the doctors to suggest a therapist that you can talk to. this was very helpful to both my husband and me. also, a mild anti depressant can help. often people think they just have to be strong...well this is overwhelming and you both need to ask for help it is out there for the asking.0 -
lily, i am old,, 64. i have
lily, i am old,, 64. i have been married 42 years. when my husband and i started on this journey i too had trouble dealing with his cancer. everyday something new came, chemo not working, blood clots in the lung. he had just started a business with our sons and could no longer guided them. so i watched my oldest child at the age of 31 lead. this was not new to him but here he was his father with cancer, a new family and a new business to run. it was stressful for all of us even though my 4 sons were ages 31 to 21 they were afraid to lose the father they loved all those years. i know you are afraid but so are your children and your husband. i know with young children you must be thinking how will i care for them if he dies. often young couples both have careers and live on both incomes, that can be a problem. i am just wondering if you feel that your children will be better off without their father? i will not judge you just suggest that you get some help. ask the doctors to suggest a therapist that you can talk to. this was very helpful to both my husband and me. also, a mild anti depressant can help. often people think they just have to be strong...well this is overwhelming and you both need to ask for help it is out there for the asking.0 -
My own experience
I have read all the posts and felt a myriad of emotions...but i want to comment on the original post alone. My partenr was diagnosed in June and since then NOTHING has been the same.....all of a sudden the split responsibilites we had became all mine...my life ceased to exist w/out cancer...everywhere I turned it was there affecting something else...I hated it and hate it still...i do believe we will get through this but it doesn't make it any easier...her loss is my loss and her grief is my grief. She will be getting a bilateral in a few months, her hair will fall out in a few weeks, and she has been sick A LOT so I feel alone in this marriage we have. My needs are no longer being met by her and her needs are increasing... It is a difficult thing for me to reconclie, however I have leaned heavily on friends for support, to vent, to glean strength from. Of course this isn't what I wanted, it isn't what she wanted either. I will admit I have been an **** on more than one occasion due to frustration. It is hard to live in the fear of the unknowing....will our kids be motherless, will I be wifeless...but if so, how can I make today count. EASIER said than done. What I am trying to ineffectively say is that I struggle daily with this invasion not only in her body, but in our life. I am tired more, I feel more negative than I used to, financially strapped, stressed, lonelier, and I blame cancer. I am 32 yrs old. I believe if we were together 1 yr or 40 yrs, i would be prone to feeling the same as I do today. I feel like life was great, we were coasting along happily then BAM! We will be celebrating our 6 yr anniversary 2 days after round 2 chemo....which means nasuea and vomiting and fatigue...how romantic....(note the sarcasm) I vaccilate between sarcasm and true sadness. I don't know if i am helping or not, but i wanted to share my experience without demeaning anyone elses. It is hard and it sucks and it's not fair. I am trying to stay positive and do okay sometimes...but it is hard, it sucks, and it's not fair....0
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