Cryoblation anyone have experience with this?

EdinMaryland
EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

70 y.o. Gleason 3+4 most likely need to make treatment decision shortly. Hopkins urologist advances cryoblation based on cancer being fairly contained. Thoughts? Experience? How does this measure up compared to other treatments including total removal? Thanks for your comments in advance

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Comments

  • fjubier
    fjubier Member Posts: 24 Member

    51 y.o. Gleason 3+4. Stayed on AS for 1 year and I recently pulled the trigger doing Cryo on July 9th. Now fully recovered with no major side effects. Cryosurgery was 2 hours total and I kept the catheter for 3 days. Time will tell if it was a one time thing or if I will have to do it again…I am now on surveillance with PSA every 3 months…MRI to repeat in one year…if positive then I will have to redo a biopsy.

  • swl1956
    swl1956 Member Posts: 123 Member

    Hi Ed

    Didn't have Cryo but did experience IRE (Irreversible Electroporation) ablation which uses high voltage electrical current to kill the cancer. Perhaps you know this already, Cryo and other technologies are sometimes used for Focal therapies treating just the cancerous lesion. Most often when a medium gleason score tumor is in an accessible position without any indication of metastasis outside of the prostate. The upside is that these procedures have significantly less side effects than the more common RP or RT which can be life changing for some. It's been three months since my procedure. The only side effect I'm dealing with is urgency to pee. It's manageable but it's all I can do hold it until I get to a place to relieve myself. I'm hoping this will improve with time. With a Focal procedure you'll need to stay on Active Surveillance with routine PSA tests, MRIs and occasional biopsies. I'm going for my first PSA test tomorrow. At 67 because I was a good candidate for a Focal procedure I thought it a good choice considering I still have the options of RP and RT. I think you can feel confident dealing with John Hopkins.

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    Thank you both so much for the comments. I really appreciate it.

    I have had second and third opinions and it seems there are many treatment options, however it does not seem clear which are the best. Urologist 'A' seems to favor radiation, Urologist 'B' total removal, now Urologist C focal treatment.

    I have an uncle- mid 90s ( maybe 96 now) living independently , he has had the radioactive 'seeds' for 30 years which seems to have been the right choice for him. My brother had radiation (younger than me) only a year ago. He is happy. I appreciate that despite being immediate blood relatives, the type of cancer can be different. I want to be as cancer-free as I can be, second to this, quality of life- less invasive procedures makes sense. I hope things go well for both of you.

    I really do appreciate your posting comments for me

  • Clevelandguy
    Clevelandguy Member Posts: 1,180 Member
    edited August 26 #5

    Hi,

    If it was me I would do some research on the various ways you and your doctor team have selected to treat Prostate cancer and their success rates over time. Better to investigate now and not regret it later. Look at treatment methods, short term side effects, long term effects, expected survival rates 5,10 years out.

    Dave 3+4

  • swl1956
    swl1956 Member Posts: 123 Member

    It's a daunting decision! I struggled with it for 6 months before deciding. I too got varying opinions from different doctors. I found that dealing with cancer centers of excellence was the best route for less biased opinions. I also found that once I made the choice of first course of action, my stress level was substantially reduced.

  • Old Salt
    Old Salt Member Posts: 1,505 Member

    From the NCI website:

    • Cryosurgery to treat prostate cancer can cause urine flow to be blocked, incontinenceimpotence, and damage to the rectum. You are more likely to have side effects from cryosurgery if you have also had radiation therapy to the prostate.

  • swl1956
    swl1956 Member Posts: 123 Member

    I believe the side effects quoted are associated with whole gland treatment which is why it's fallen out of favor for whole gland treatment. But for Focal treatment with an experienced doctor is quite effective with minimal side effects compared to RP or RT. Most Cancer centers utilize cryo for focal treatments. Focal is only applicable for those who's staging is appropriate for that procedure.

  • Old Salt
    Old Salt Member Posts: 1,505 Member
    edited August 26 #9

    That's a valid point. Perhaps the NCI web info on cryoablation should be updated?

    With respect to the original post, as long as more 'classical' therapies (removal, radiation) are still possible after possible cryoablation failure, I do think the latter is a viable option. It's a hard decision, that's for sure.

    Did you ask the Hopkins doc about failure rates (after 5 and 10 years) for patients such as you?

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    Thanks again everyone

    The Hopkins Doc recommended it and said - I hope I get this right- that the long term results/side effects are still needed but seem very promising. In contract, he said that radiation risks may have been undervalued/underestimated that some patients have damage to other organs 10+ years later. He also said that it might get the cancer but if the cancer returned or some new cancer developed it could be done again. What I keep coming up against is different reports and conclusions

    I got the following from a PubMed Literature review

    I interpret this - just like the cyber knife and other recent interventions as they look promising but they have not been out there long enough for studies past 10+ years

    Getting some first hand feedback from this group really helps as I am leaning this way. It seems good on paper. the Hopkins doc is recommending it- for the right reasons it seems. I prefer less invasive However I would like it better if somehow all these interventions could be compared and included 10-20- 30 year follow ups (wishful thinking right?) Maybe that will the case for the generation following us

  • fjubier
    fjubier Member Posts: 24 Member

    It seems that we all have similar experience in the decision process in the 3+4 Gleason group…I had so many opinions but I was eligible for Focal therapy (FT). In this specialized field of FT, there are so many type of treatments that I also got lost (Cryo, IRE and HIFU for example). In the end I chose a surgeon who had a lot of experience and he felt very comfortable that Cryo will a do a better job based on my tumor location. Regarding the data FT of the prostate is a very promising. The failure or recurrence is similar to some other standard treatment. It is mostly due to the fact that some candidates for FT should not have received such treatment to begin with. I saw many surgeons from good institutions to make sure that I was not making a mistake by doing FT. Last thing you are not burning any bridges of failure and you can still repeat FT, or do RP or RT.
    I think the main side effect of FT is that you are on AS for a while…

  • swl1956
    swl1956 Member Posts: 123 Member

    The way I looked at it is one would be on sort of an Active Surveillance no matter which procedure we choose. Recurrence can occur with any of the treatments. You won't have any more biopsies after whole gland treatments of RP or RT but the risks of side effects short and long term are considerably higher with those when compared to Focal. Anyhow, there is no clear cut answer. Research as much as you can and make a choice that you're most comfortable with. If you confirm that you are a good candidate for Focal Therapy, it's a good thing you have this option. Many do not. Have you had a PSMA PET scan? If not, I'd ask for it to be more confident there is less chance of metastasis before you make a decision.

  • fjubier
    fjubier Member Posts: 24 Member

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10087270/

  • fjubier
    fjubier Member Posts: 24 Member

    This link is more specific for Cryo. Good reading !

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10535457/

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    Thanks so much this really helps.

    I have been reading some research as well and find that most studies support FT cryoablation- with cautions and some failures

    I will likely go ahead with it but also come back to my uncle who has had the radioactive seeds (brachytherapy) for what I think has been over 40 years

    hard to base life-altering decisions on 'experiments of one' but learning directly from others helps as I read the many research articles

    Thanks again for letting me know how it went with you

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    thanks very much for this it is right on point.

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    I did not know about the PSMA scan. I will definitely ask my doctor about it. I am scheduled to get an updated MRI in a few weeks and then another biopsy (this time it will be different, it will involve access through my skin transperineal) I believe it will be a little more targeted than the other biopsies I have had

  • Wheel
    Wheel Member Posts: 143 Member

    just wanted to drop one more issue into your decision. We all have no idea where are health might be in just a couple years. As the likely age window itself also gets closer to closing for surgery, one must also think what my overall health might be in a couple years. I am turning 71 in a month so at 70 I made my decision for Surgery. To me Surgery was a gold standard I did not want to lose out on if my cancer returned in just a couple years and my health status was different than now in good health. It still leaves me the radiation therapy in the future.

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    We are the same age. I am in good health otherwise. If the focal intervention does not work, can I still have surgery?? I just discovered recently that you can not have removal after radiation. i never knew that

  • swl1956
    swl1956 Member Posts: 123 Member

    It's my understanding that surgery is complicated after radiation mainly due to scaring of tissues. It can be done but not many doctors perform post radiation surgeries. I also believe the risk of undesirable post surgery side effects is increased.

    Yes, I believe you can have repeat Focal, surgery, or radiation after primary Focal. You should confirm with your doctor.

  • EdinMaryland
    EdinMaryland Member Posts: 9 Member

    Thanks

    everyone has been so helpful and I honestly appreciate it.

    I signed up for a prostrate group on Facebook but did not get any replies. I may have not signed up properly. However, the feedback I have received here has been exactly what I wanted.