How are you guys coping with the other C word?
Comments
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The Globe and Mail
The Globe and Mail
European Commission apologizes to Italy for lack of solidarity in tackling coronavirus pandemic
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VaccineGrinder said:More addendum
Just to add another wrinkle to what was just said...
Better to peruse these posts with civilized comrades than suffer the slings and arrows of social media... which is often more alarming than network newscasts. Social media such as Facebook has gotten so divisive... even opinions of this pandemic are in extreme camps...
1) It is all a government conspiracy and it's no worse than a bad cold
2) Apocalypse Now
I figure the truth is somewhere in between... the question is, which side is the truth more heavily weighted toward. I don't doubt politicians in all countries will take advantage of this crisis. And I don't doubt, like Max says, the networks are using this pandemic as their crisis-du-jour to get ratings and revenue, not to mention a bloated sense of self-importance.
I am guessing nearly everyone in this forum is over 50, putting us all in the higher risk categories... that being said, I have greater concern as my beloved wife is 67 with past bronchitis issues... making her very high risk... not so much to contract the virus but the greater danger of mortality. So we have taken greater precautions to avoid the first group I mentioned who do not take it seriously and can be asymptomatic carriers.
But at the same time we will be smart about it. I recall the Y2K hoax 20 years ago where many were expecting a complete grid crash from computers unable to handle the century reboot from 1999 to 2000. That shall go down as the great panic hysteria and prepping panacea of modern history.
On the other hand, we are also afflicted with "normalcy syndrome", recalling the lyrical talents of Frank Zappa and his song "It Can't Happen Here".
The CDC in the US advises anyone with a compromised immune system or over 65 to get a Pneumococcal-23 vaccine, and a booster every 5 years thereafter.
Got my booster today. Most Covid patients who die die of pneumonia... P-23 prevents bacterial pneumonias, but not viral ones. Bacterial is usually secondary to an earlier viral infection, my doctor told me this week.
max
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VaccineVaccine
The CDC in the US advises anyone with a compromised immune system or over 65 to get a Pneumococcal-23 vaccine, and a booster every 5 years thereafter.
Got my booster today. Most Covid patients who die die of pneumonia... P-23 prevents bacterial pneumonias, but not viral ones. Bacterial is usually secondary to an earlier viral infection, my doctor told me this week.
max
Good advice, Max. Any thing we can do to strengthen our systems may turn out to be very useful.
Eric
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Artemisinin vz Covid-19: My lay opinion
Can we imagine or consider a cell that has been infected by the “sars cov2” a parasite?
If yes, then Artemisinin together with an antiviral drug could become the way to fight covid-19.
The antiviral drug Favipiravir, which is a derivate from the Pyrazinamide drug that treats tuberculosis, has been in use in China and some European countries to fight Covid-19 symptoms. Favipiravir is not new and is used in Japan to treat common flu but it has also demonstrated to be efficient in newer coronavirus types. The problem with sars cov2 is that it creates havoc in invaded cells making these to produce several copies of the virus rapidly invading neighbor cells, which speed doesn’t match the effects of the antiviral drugs. Artemisinin is capable of delaying the infection by reducing the number of parasites (the poisonous biomass), allowing antivirus drugs to catching up in time to treat and eliminate the disease.
The State of Emergency in Portugal has been extended for more two weeks. People like me with cancer are now obliged to get tested for the virus before getting the periodical consultation or treatment. Mine is scheduled for June, which may coincide with the peak and havoc in hospitals dealing with covid-19. This is a worrisome situation that I want to avoid. Meanwhile the number of cases in my area is now 39 with 2 deaths (295 in the whole country). We just have to keep ourselves indoors. Fortunately, that we live in the countryside surrounded by empty fields where we walk the dogs and get some bodily activity. I recommend the many to get healthy diets at home now that one can avoid those highly processed fast food with large amounts of carbohydrates, sugar and salt.
Unfortunately, the United States has become now the center of Covid-19 in the world with the highest number of infected patients, reaching more than 300,000. Surely this is a small percentage of the total population but the death rate is high and needs fast resolution to stop the increase. Several fronts are now aligned to develop a vaccine that can take over one year to do, leaving behind the researches on antiviral drugs already well developed. I believe that Asia again will be supreme in the fight against flu, which also kills thousands each year, and it will become the saviour of the pandemic afflicting all us.
https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/03/japanese-drug-making-waves-treating-coronavirus-will-it-come-to-us.html
Best wishes to all my comrades.
VGama
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Australians found that Ivermectin can kill coronavirus
This is an interesting finding that supplements my lay opinion on the use of Artemisinin in fighting SARS Cov2. After all, this monster is not as strong as it seems to imply. The problem is how we should tackle it, encircling it into a corner and eliminating it for good. A vaccine for Covid-19 may not be as effective as a drug can be in the long term to cure it straight.
The success was found in vitro studies showing the drug's capability in increasing the permeability of the virus protective membrane paralyzing the monster and killing it. However, when applied in humans the effect may be conditional to the timing in propagation. Inactive virus, at the start of infection can be eliminated at once but once cells are invaded by the monster the parasite drug needs some help from a compound like an Artemisinin derivate that delays the infection. This is what saved thousands of military men stricken by malaria during the Vietnam war.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/cattle-wormer-ivermectin-can-kill-coronavirus-538649
Finally I see scientist in the right direction to tackle the monster.
What's your opinion mate?
Best,
VG
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Therapy
Hi Vasco,
It may be possible to find a drug therapy that would partly control the disease, this would be an advance as it would mean we would not need so many ventilators. Some places are now in a situation where there is a severe shortage of ventilators.
Long term I think we need a vaccine that raises a strong immunomogical response, this would build up a reservoir of immunity in the population that would slow down the spread and eventually stop the disease.
However I think this is some time off so we are going to have to live with coronavirus for some time yet.
The good news for me is that the number of new cases in Finistère seems to be levelling off.
Best wishes,
Georges0 -
Things being worked on
Hi All,
It seems several different places are working on vaccines along with the Pittsburgh school of medicine. https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/scientists-believe-they-found-potential-coronavirus-vaccine/
Hopefully this Summer some company or research facility will have a route to a new vacine or cure.Dave 3+4
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VentilatorsGeorges Calvez said:Therapy
Hi Vasco,
It may be possible to find a drug therapy that would partly control the disease, this would be an advance as it would mean we would not need so many ventilators. Some places are now in a situation where there is a severe shortage of ventilators.
Long term I think we need a vaccine that raises a strong immunomogical response, this would build up a reservoir of immunity in the population that would slow down the spread and eventually stop the disease.
However I think this is some time off so we are going to have to live with coronavirus for some time yet.
The good news for me is that the number of new cases in Finistère seems to be levelling off.
Best wishes,
Georges"It may be possible to find a drug therapy that would partly control the disease, this would be an advance as it would mean we would not need so many ventilators. Some places are now in a situation where there is a severe shortage of ventilators."
I havent been following the issue of ventilators closely, but from a news article I read it sounds like the use of a ventilator on a patient is sort of a "last ditch" effort to try to save a patient whose lungs can't get enough oxygen for the body (and can't expel enough carbon dioxide as well?). The article mentioned that the invasive nature of the ventilation procedure in which the patients can neither speak nor eat and have to be artificially fed means that they normally have to be put into a medically induced coma throughout the duration of the treatment. Recovery from such a long-term ventilator treatment can be very long and arduous. So I think that everyone would agree that ventilators are no panacea for new viruses such as coronavirus, and that we definitely want to focus on things like being able to quickly produce drug therapies and vaccines and accurate tests when there are future virus outbreaks.
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Last ditch effort but the only real available tool if not drugs
Yes, ventilators make part in the last effort to save the life of a patient whose lungs lost the capability in supplying/filtrating oxygen to the body (sort of drowning). Too late or a shortage of the stuff leads to kidney failure and death. The most common type of ventilators is those that require inducing coma as the tube must be inserted and stay in the trachea. Old people and those with other health issues suffer and can die due to the treatment not the virus. The shortage of ventilators in the medical community is understood as it is used only in long term surgeries that require total anesthesia. Apart from that each Covid-19 patient may need the ventilator for over one week.
Ventilators also require well educated team of specialist/physicians to operate the equipment and move/turn around the patient several times a day to avoid embolism (induced coma status). Surely this is not a practical way to treat flu and colds by coronavirus that can cause severe acute respiratory syndrome.Vaccines are good ways to control pandemic cases from virus but these depend in singling out the type of virus (among the 200+ types) before it strikes. Once the inflammation is set in, only drugs can solve the problem. A vaccine is also sort lived (4 to 6 months of immunity) requiring earlier administration of the cold season every year.
Here is a link on the details of these sort of virus (Rhinovirus) easy to read and understand;
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~johnb/micro/m130/readings/Rhinovirus.htm
Details on the promising vaccine trial presented by Dave above are in here;
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S2352-3964(20)30118-3
Thanks guys. We are also heroes in this fight against the monster together with the many physicians, officials and workers doing their job on site.
Best,
VGama
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Delays in treatment
Hi all,
Some patients are having their treatments postponed. There are no prostate cancer patients in this article but patients with other types of cancer are facing delays or indefinite postponements of treatment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/life-hanging-by-a-thread-for-italian-cancer-patients-in-coronavirus-crisis
Best wishes,
Georges0 -
VentsFlyer83948 said:Ventilators
"It may be possible to find a drug therapy that would partly control the disease, this would be an advance as it would mean we would not need so many ventilators. Some places are now in a situation where there is a severe shortage of ventilators."
I havent been following the issue of ventilators closely, but from a news article I read it sounds like the use of a ventilator on a patient is sort of a "last ditch" effort to try to save a patient whose lungs can't get enough oxygen for the body (and can't expel enough carbon dioxide as well?). The article mentioned that the invasive nature of the ventilation procedure in which the patients can neither speak nor eat and have to be artificially fed means that they normally have to be put into a medically induced coma throughout the duration of the treatment. Recovery from such a long-term ventilator treatment can be very long and arduous. So I think that everyone would agree that ventilators are no panacea for new viruses such as coronavirus, and that we definitely want to focus on things like being able to quickly produce drug therapies and vaccines and accurate tests when there are future virus outbreaks.
There is no real shortage of ventilators in the US. One location, NYC, has had some worrisome delays. Ford and GM are both now manufacturing ventilators, and the govenor of California a few days ago volunteered to send thousands of surplus vents to NYC. My own local hospital recently made news by devising a way for one vent to provide support to multiple patients; I do not know exactly how that is possible, but it has been in the news, and reportedly is as effective as individual units. Hysterical predictions of widespread, nationwide shortages were based on earlier models that massively overestimated critical cases. Each US mortality estimate has lessoned mortality calculations, and it is (in the best estimates) well under 1% of known CV19 positives, except in the 'hot spots' like NYC. Of course, mortality for the aged, or those with comorbities, is much higher. I do not follow European statistics very closely, and do not know their estimates.
I was on a vent for 16 days in 1986, following a collapsed chest cavity in an auto crush injury ('paradoxical chest' or 'flail chest'; 13 rib fractures). Clinically, any patient on the machine is 'critical.' While it does not require induced unconsciouslness, it does require sedation and powerful muscle relaxers. And as such, it requires ICU levels of care, and that is the real problem.
In 1986, doctors said that 14 days was about the maximum length of time that patients can ordinarily be expected to ween from the machine after pulmonary function is restored, because the chest muscles start to atrophy. They were quite concerned to get me back to spontaneous breathing.
A vent does not really 'cure' anything, it just gives the patient time to recover from the inability to breath, which almost always involves pneumonia. "Suctioning," or drawing out fluids from the lungs periodically via a vaccum tube threaded down the vent, is necessary many times during the day. I was conscious during my entire 16 days. Being on a vent is a horrific thing, I must say. If necessary for more than three days, ICU psychosis or delirium is routine. I had serous ICU psychosis, with out-of-body experiences and unimaginable hallucinations. But most of my time was lucid.
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VentilatorsVents
There is no real shortage of ventilators in the US. One location, NYC, has had some worrisome delays. Ford and GM are both now manufacturing ventilators, and the govenor of California a few days ago volunteered to send thousands of surplus vents to NYC. My own local hospital recently made news by devising a way for one vent to provide support to multiple patients; I do not know exactly how that is possible, but it has been in the news, and reportedly is as effective as individual units. Hysterical predictions of widespread, nationwide shortages were based on earlier models that massively overestimated critical cases. Each US mortality estimate has lessoned mortality calculations, and it is (in the best estimates) well under 1% of known CV19 positives, except in the 'hot spots' like NYC. Of course, mortality for the aged, or those with comorbities, is much higher. I do not follow European statistics very closely, and do not know their estimates.
I was on a vent for 16 days in 1986, following a collapsed chest cavity in an auto crush injury ('paradoxical chest' or 'flail chest'; 13 rib fractures). Clinically, any patient on the machine is 'critical.' While it does not require induced unconsciouslness, it does require sedation and powerful muscle relaxers. And as such, it requires ICU levels of care, and that is the real problem.
In 1986, doctors said that 14 days was about the maximum length of time that patients can ordinarily be expected to ween from the machine after pulmonary function is restored, because the chest muscles start to atrophy. They were quite concerned to get me back to spontaneous breathing.
A vent does not really 'cure' anything, it just gives the patient time to recover from the inability to breath, which almost always involves pneumonia. "Suctioning," or drawing out fluids from the lungs periodically via a vaccum tube threaded down the vent, is necessary many times during the day. I was conscious during my entire 16 days. Being on a vent is a horrific thing, I must say. If necessary for more than three days, ICU psychosis or delirium is routine. I had serous ICU psychosis, with out-of-body experiences and unimaginable hallucinations. But most of my time was lucid.
Wow. Glad that you made it through your ventilator experience OK. Yeah, I imagine the psychological stress must be pretty high for going through 16 days on one while conscious and not being able to move (or to even speak?).
I had never heard of ventilators before this coronavirus outbreak, and when I did first hear of them I imagined them to be something like a scuba diver decompression or diving chamber, a rugged pressure chamber which one or more people can enter and is then pressurized with an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Thought that such an experience might not even be so bad with a good supply of books and magazines and movie videos, but apparently these medical ventilators are much different in design and operation.
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Finally an EU agreement with unionism spirit fighting Covid-19
It took the Eurogroup long hours in three days of meetings to reach to a collective understanding and agreement for delivering an economic weapon to confront together the economic crises caused by the Covid-19. The Dutch and Germany were reluctant at the beginning but after an ultimatum delivered by the Eurogroup’s president (Mr. Euro as it is called) in regards to the risk of the EU disintegration and Euro’s stability, the ministers of the 19 countries using Euro currency agreed in delivering 500 Billion Euros fund to be used by each member (at their discretion to a maximum of 2% of GDP) in their measures to fight the crises caused by the pandemic.
The Eurogroup president is the present Finance Minister of Portugal (Mario Centeno). I believe that his skills, gained in pulling out the Portuguese economy from a resection after bankruptcy in 2011, have been recognized by the EU members and his ultimatum warning about the indignation among several countries, in particular in Italy, after the negative meeting in March 24 was enough to have them agreeing. These guys saved the union and the Euro.
Meanwhile the number of infected people and deaths continue to increase in Europe without a foreseen end. There are over 550,000 active cases and 68,000 deaths in Europe. Portugal has now 14,000 confirmed cases and 400 deaths. Problems in hospitals like the one reported by Georges above are rising. The chief doctor in charge of surgeries in a major hospital in Lisbon resigned for disaccords with the hospital’s strategy in handling Covid-19 patients together with patients of other illnesses. The problem is caused by the low number of hospital beds available in Portugal. The medical community has recommended in treating Covid-19 patients at specific facilities, separating these from other sick people but the Health minister thinks otherwise. They have imposed a strategy of home confinement of Covid-19 sick people with symptoms (fever, etc) sending physicians to treating these at their home (similar to what has been done with Boris Johnson), and only taking to the hospitals those in critical conditions, to avoid havoc in the urgencies.
Accordingly, confinement of these patients in “home treatment” obliges families to reserve part of their houses (room and toilet) for the infected member, avoiding contact with him for at least two weeks after recovery. The strategy has permitted a better management of the health infrastructure but without assigning specific hospitals to treat only Covid-19 has led to the disappearance of common patients in hospital urgencies, afraid for any contagion (like me). The authorities here come to the TV alluring those with high risks diseases (heart, diabetics, renal, cancer, etc) to get to the hospital for treatment. I think that the situation (empty urgency rooms) created the opportunity of getting NHS consultations to issues that in normal times would take many months to be scheduled like cardiovascular issues.
In any case, as the coronavirus critical cases increase hospitals will need all the beds, equipment, and physicians to handle Covd-19. It will be important not to have these resources taken up by patients with common seasonal diseases like the traditional flu, screening tests or follow-up consultation for previous interventions.
I wonder the situation of the fellow members of this forum. Is everybody alright?
Let's keep in touch.
VGama
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Better days ahead
Hi All,
It appears social distancing, hand washing, and stay at home are starting to work in the U.S.. Hospital admissions are starting to fall in major cities and hopefully a drop in deaths to soon follow. Can't return to normal until a drug(s) are found to heal the sick with a immunization to follow In the near future. Hope you Euro guys have better days ahead and there is hope on the horizon for ya. Stay safe and stay apart.
Dave 3+4
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Iron LungFlyer83948 said:Ventilators
Wow. Glad that you made it through your ventilator experience OK. Yeah, I imagine the psychological stress must be pretty high for going through 16 days on one while conscious and not being able to move (or to even speak?).
I had never heard of ventilators before this coronavirus outbreak, and when I did first hear of them I imagined them to be something like a scuba diver decompression or diving chamber, a rugged pressure chamber which one or more people can enter and is then pressurized with an oxygen-rich atmosphere. Thought that such an experience might not even be so bad with a good supply of books and magazines and movie videos, but apparently these medical ventilators are much different in design and operation.
Flyer,
You are thinking of the so-called Iron Lung, which predated development of the ventilator. A horror experience for certain.
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WashingtonClevelandguy said:Better days ahead
Hi All,
It appears social distancing, hand washing, and stay at home are starting to work in the U.S.. Hospital admissions are starting to fall in major cities and hopefully a drop in deaths to soon follow. Can't return to normal until a drug(s) are found to heal the sick with a immunization to follow In the near future. Hope you Euro guys have better days ahead and there is hope on the horizon for ya. Stay safe and stay apart.
Dave 3+4
Washington State (like California) is sending its excess of ventilators to other locations, as California did earlier. Also, Washington State is shutting down "Tent MASH Units", because they have gone unused. US news continues to only report the worst case scenarios. Our CDC recently changed death reporting protocols such that any person with CD19 who died for any reason is listed as a "CV-19 Death."
Austria, like Denmark before it, is saying that they are beginning partial reopening of their economy within a week.
HIGHLIGHT, then RIGHT CLICK, the press GO TO........
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6148618131001/
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Localised in France
Hi there,
It is localised in France.
In Finistere we have 909,000 people, 325 cases and 7 deaths so far.
They have shipped us out some Parisians that are at death's door to fill up our ICU beds.
I am lucky insofar as I am in remission for the moment so I am keeping the local hospital and doctors at arms length.
Hopefully things will be looking better by the time I need to visit again.
Best wishes,
Georges0 -
Experience in dealing with CoVid-19
Here is a video about the experience of Japanese health coordinators at the start of their engagement with CoVid-19. A little old but still very informative.
This is how they successfully treated those from the Diamond Cruise.
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/5001289/
VG
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Another treatment?
Hi All,
Here is another drug possibly for Covid19.
Dave 3+4
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Good news, bad news in Finistère
Hi there,
The good news is that our case rate is dropping fast, only three new cases yesterday.
The bad news is that we are going to remain under lock down until the 12th of May and then we will be progressively released so this is going to drag on and on.
Coronavirus is going to be with us for a long time yet.
Best wishes,
Georges0
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