Chemoradiation before surgery

I'm sorry that you guys have to go through this. I had the same type of cancer 2.5 years ago. Didn't have early side effects like your husband, but the one after the surgery really kicked my butt. Work with your oncologist: maybe reducing the dose further or giving the treatment I greater intervals for him to recover. There are guidelines but they can be tweaked. One important thing: most people say to wait 10-12 weeks after radiation before surgery. The radiation keeps working and he has a greater chance that more cancer will be destroyed. 

Check back here because there is important infornation about the surgery and the follow up chemo. 

Hang in there and good luck. 

Laz

I didn't get diarrhea until week 3 of chemo coupled with radiation.  My surgeon said I didn't need anymore chemo after the resection.  Currently 5 yrs out from resection and NED(no evidence of disease).  Still have occasional diarrhea,but NED life is good.  Best of luck to you both!!

Jen1988 said:

Dear Laz,
Thank you for

Dear Laz,

Thank you for advise. I will try to make my husdand stay active. He still go to work but only for a few hours since he is doing radiation  every day and also see the oncologist everyday and get the blood test everyday for the onc to check if the side effects affecting blood count. At this time he only takes multivitamin and vit c. But onc suggest to take glutamine later for the folfox after surgery.

i am not sure about the exact location but from the paperwork i red something about 10 cm from the bottom edge and 5 cm from top edge,.. Not sure if thats the edge of the rectum or anus. We went to see 2nd opinion colorectal, both said that my husband need to wear illeostomy bag after surgery, then they will reconnect after finish with folfix regime.

I will address to the doctor about waiting at least 10 weeks before surgery,. Thank you for letting me know about this as we want to get the best possible cure. Really aporeciate the info.

 

Rectal cancer….

I am not going to say much regarding treatment, since I have never taken chemical or radiation therapy; You can learn more from reading the experiences of those that have….

Radiation radiates; It damages cells. Chemicals damage cells. Both are considered carcinogenic. Neither address single cancer cells. And from all I’ve read across all the years  since my DX of CC in 2006, is that the total surgical removal of all rectal/anal organs has been responsible for the best outcomes. It means having a permanent Ostomy, but the extended chance of life is well worth it.

That said…… Do yourselves a major favor, and get other opinions from qualified colorectal surgeons. That should have been done prior to beginning treatment, but it is never too late to do that. The other opinions should always be from physicians not in the same group or association as your present physicians. Going out of town is sometimes required to get an honest, independent opinion.

Don’t allow fear to guide you; allow your common sense and the patients “gut feeling” to be the guide. The power of the self-survival instinct is more valuable than anything else.

Best  wishes for you both,

John

Jen1988 said:

Chinese Herb

Dear John,

Thank you for your advise. We did seek 2nd opinion from different colorectal surgeon not in the same group,.. And also having the 3rd opinion with another cr doctor next week. We want to know how do they perform the surgery because CC surgeon no.1 said He would have open surgery due to ltumor location,... And CC no.2 said he would have robotic... So we are going to see the 3rd doctor and see what he think.

I look up your profile and just wondering what kind of chinese herb did you use?

Thank you again for your support

Jenny

both have advantages and disadvantages. There is less recovery time with robotic surgery and in that tight space visibilty maybe better with that. some surgeons feel more comfortable with open surgery, because they can look around in the entire area. 

I had no option, because they had to remove the entire rectum and anus. They even took one of my abdominal muscles to fill the space where the rectum was to prevent my intestines prolapsing into the pelvis. He may have all kinds of options. If they decide to save the anus make sure that stool incontinence won't be s problem. Go with the surgeon who feels the most caring.

Laz

John23 said:

Second opinions.

I’m glad to read that you’ve sought other surgeon’s opinions, it’s always best to do that! Physicians are often too busy to keep up with the latest practices, and the good physicians welcome other physicians opinions, since that’s the best way for them to keep up with any medical/surgical advances.

As far as “herbal treatments”…. Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been practiced for over three thousand years; that’s a helluva lot of study and record keeping. The knowledge of what substance does what biologically, has been recorded and transmitted from generation to generation; it is a science with a background that is far more encompassing that anything western medicine can possibly offer. Yet, the science is disregarded by the western medicine industry, and most individuals are convinced that something thousand of years in the proofing is nothing more than “snake oil”. I’m always amazed at the welcoming of ignorance and the refusal to believe in anything other than industrial hype.

The herbs I had used are all listed in the “blog” section of my profile page. The amount of each is noted, with instructions regarding the preparation and use. The average cost of each herb is around $6.00 per pound, with a pound lasting about 1.5 months. There is no reason to spend a lot of money on any “alternative” to standardized western medicine! When I read of individuals spending high amounts of cash for things like “mistletoe oil”, I shudder. Any benefit of mistletoe oil that had ever been recorded, was through the injection of the oil directly into a tumor, not by ingestion or injection otherwise. We had a couple of individuals here that spent thousands on “cures”, and managed to convince others that a lot has to be spent if one seriously desires a resolve; it just ain’t so. Yet, most will try something other than a modality that has thousand of years of experimentation and experience behind it; a modality that is continued to be used in most Asian hospitals to this very day.

There is no known cure for cancer. And it difficult for me to believe that an industry that has been built around cancer would be willing to destroy their own industry. Call me cynical, but money seems to make many people totally disregard other’s suffering - offering an excuse of how many benefit from the profits…. That being more important than how many suffer to provide those profits.

To use any herbal methods, you should have either a practitioner of TCM, or an herbalist to call upon. The herbs are powerful and although are not known to do harm, they can be considered toxic if used improperly. An herbalist can be of help, should you have a problem.

The herbs can be used along with normal western medicine treatments, and are often used in that manner to offset the side effects of chemical therapy and radiation; The herbs can be of great help used in either manner.

Most oncologists will tell you that there is no herb as powerful as any western pharmaceutical, and herbs are useless for that reason. But they will also tell you that they will not permit the use of the herbs during treatment, even to offset side effects, because the herbs my make the chemicals less effective. A bit hypocritical….. Either the herbs are not as powerful, or they are so powerful that they diminish the power of the drugs… which is it?

You do not have to forgo western medicine to use TCM; there is no “choice” that has to be made. If you use it and your cancer is disappearing, who cares about assigned “credit”? I did not use western medicine treatments at all, and all my physicians would say is that I was “very lucky” that the cancer cells were gone. Two of my physicians called me “the miracle man”; they will never admit that herbs could have possibly been of benefit.

I’m certain they would tell all those that have used the same herbs, that they are all simply miracles of nature. It does not and should not matter what they choose to believe, all that matters is the life one receives from doing what they feel is best for them.

And personally? When the industry makes claims regarding a new life-lengthening cancer drug and sells it for thousands per treatment, only to have hidden in the fine print that the lengthening time beyond prognosis is only measured in weeks, there is something drastically wrong with the present “science”, and the motivations behind it. It should be obvious to anyone not living in fear of not doing what the industry dictates.

Everything regarding the herbs is in the “blog”. It takes very little money, and time to try it. There isn’t much to lose, and can be a lot to gain.

My best wishes for a long, healthy life!

John

 

I did not use western medicine treatments at all, and all my physicians would say is that I was “very lucky” that the cancer cells were gone.

Was further tests done which showed you actually had cancer in the remote areas after the surgery?  (Mine are being monitored.  Scans and the rest may or may not be accurate, no?)  Curious about how they made the determination.  Was told in my case (3C many lymph nodes) there is a 25% of being cured just from surgery, even with the remote things spotted on scans before and after surgery.

There is no known cure for cancer. And it difficult for me to believe that an industry that has been built around cancer would be willing to destroy their own industry. Call me cynical, but money seems to make many people totally disregard other’s suffering - offering an excuse of how many benefit from the profits…. That being more important than how many suffer to provide those profits.

I will balance your cynicism with my naivete .  If any of these alternate things worked to cure cancer, and assuming that capitalism is at work, these treatments could still generate profits for the medical field (if that is the goal as compared to end people's suffering.)  For instance take a look at the legalization of marijuana in some states. There is money to be made. Proper "FDA Aprroved" guidelines for the processing of herbal treatments if they worked.  One that I would love,  hyperbaric oxygen treatment.  If it was effective, the medical field could make a mint. Just follow up treatments, scans etc could generate money. Every cancer survivor would be an annuity just for maintainace HBOT treatment "because studies do not show when, or if, it is ever proper to stop HBOT" [Meaning they can milk that line for quite a long time.  Once a year each patient needs to go for treatment, ":just to be sure"]  And each patient that is alive and put through this means more money.  At some point surgeries and facing chemo, plus the lack of effectiveness, reduces customers.  A cure means everyone is a continuing customer.  

Most oncologists will tell you that there is no herb as powerful as any western pharmaceutical, and herbs are useless for that reason. But they will also tell you that they will not permit the use of the herbs during treatment, even to offset side effects, because the herbs my make the chemicals less effective. A bit hypocritical….. Either the herbs are not as powerful, or they are so powerful that they diminish the power of the drugs… which is it?

Not quite sure it is an "either or distinction" as particularly set forth in the bold.  For instance, sulfuric acid vs baking soda.  Pour some of each on metal to do some etching.   Yet baking soda can neutralize the sulfuric acid.  As you note, the issue is more of a "may," not a shall.  And there are things that are not understood in terms of drug interactions (including TCM and other things.)  Western Medicine has investigated and put out findings on alternative/intergrative medicine and have found benefits (or no benefit or contraindication).  Of course there is more to be done there.

And personally? When the industry makes claims regarding a new life-lengthening cancer drug and sells it for thousands per treatment, only to have hidden in the fine print that the lengthening time beyond prognosis is only measured in weeks, there is something drastically wrong with the present “science”, and the motivations behind it. It should be obvious to anyone not living in fear of not doing what the industry dictates.

I posted something similar about tests and how measuring effectivness in weeks does not give me the warm and fuzzies for sure.  I think part of the issue is a bit of overegulation of treatments for whatever reasons - fear of lawsuits, etc.  They should fastrack more for life threatening things/serious illness. There was something I read in the last year or so (and I am guessing one of many similar stories) where twins were given drugs, one a placebo, for a muscle disease.  The one getting the drug improved, the placebo not.  When it seemed clear it was effective (though the study not finalized) they refused to give the drug to the other twin.  At least I think how I recall that particular story, I could be wrong and will search more to see if I can dig it up.  My buddy was almost saved by the use of an experimental drug a few years back, cleared up the cancer except for the blood-brain barrier.  Seemed to be close to a cure, but fell just short.  

Everything regarding the herbs is in the “blog”. It takes very little money, and time to try it. There isn’t much to lose, and can be a lot to gain.

True, subject to the good caveats you mentioned (know your herbs, toxic possibilites). 

Glad you are still rocking things all these years after your diagnosis.  And hopefully in 10 years we will both be celebrating some new breakthrough that was introduced in 2016 which saves many lives

I too had diarrhea when I was getting radiation and chemo.  After resection to remove tumor my onc wanted me to get more chemo.  The surgeon said it wasn't necessary.  Thus i didn't get any more chemo or radiation,  For me, it woked!!! I've been NED for six years now.  Good Luck to you both!!!