Time to stir the pot - Why all the fanboys for canned sugar?

phrannie51 said:

LOL....oh you little stirrer you!!

Actually, I think this will be a far less emotional topic than the tube topic.

For me....it was easy, that's the long and short of it.  Pop a top and get'her down.  There's a good chance that had you been treated before I was....and I knew all I had to do to get more protein was mix some powder with water or milk, I would have given that a go....as it was (in my mind)....trying to figure out a healthy diet at the time was too boggling.  I have never been a particularily healthy eater, so I would have been starting at scratch.

p

No two ways about it for me, just plain easier...I pick the Ensure up with my other groceries and, like P, just have to pop-a-top. I actually only drink one a day now. I tried to give that one up but after a week noticed a decline in my energy level. I am all about "easy". 

Certainly not a bad idea, Don. I'm all about being healthy as best we can. Unfortunately, my loved one spent 6 hrs a day driving to and from tx daily as well as the time at the facility getting tx and it was near impossible to have the time to mix it up. It was much easier for us to have the bottles handy quickly...and the Ensure and Boost just seem to work for us. Now, six months out of tx he does have himself a carnation breakfast with milk every morning...the closest he can get to healthiness before heading to work.

Glad it worked out for you...time was of the essence for us though.

~C

You are correct. First off, garbage in, garbage out. Eat as well as you can, and as we all know by now, swallowing is easier said than done. Personally, I use 60-100 grams of Muscletech whey protien and skim milk mixed in a Bullet blender within one hour after my workout 7 days a week. Good quality, and a 5 lb bag is $35.00 at SAM'S. Breakfast is Greek yogurt with grape nuts or granola, or oatmeal with raisins and dark brown sugar. I eat what I want for dinner, as long as it slides down the pipe. 

Way too many fillers and not enough quality protien with the crap people talk about here. I figure if you gain 2 steps forward, the chemo and rads knock you back 1-2 steps. 

Good post Don!!

sin9775 said:

Ensure

I know my brother's nurses suggested the Ensure stuff for him.  Just recently I believe you posted about all of the sugar in Ensure; I just read about how cancer cells feed off of sugar!!  A pretty scary thought for someone like me who is somewhat addicted to the crap, and it should be even scarier for someone who is battling the beast.  It seems to me that drinking that stuff, that one would be feeding the beast instead of killing it off!  Just sayin'.

~Shawn~

Ensure+ has 22g of sugar (so does an 8oz glass of OJ). That's about half the sugar in a can of soda. It's still a lot BUT it has 350 calories and 25% of many vitamins and minerals you need daily. I totally agree that it's not the best source of nutrients and what Foo is saying is spot on. 

The other side of the coin is... consuming an Ensure (or most pre made nutrition drinks) is more beneficial than say... a bowl of ice cream (and I LOVE ice cream!). Many of us consume foods high in sugar, fat and salt (canned soup or a fast food burger and fries for instance) as opposed to an all natural or healthier choice. For many (including myself) it's a matter of convenience and calories. 

I eat as healthy as I can and Marcia cooks from scratch all of the time. We keep a 6 pak or two of Ensure+ around for those times when convenience outrules a healthier choice. When you're trying to consume 2500-3000 calories a day it can come in handy. 

"T"

Hello Don !

I'm not by any means a medical professional....nor would I want to be.  I've had time to do research as my dx is slow growing (thank heavens !) and have linked up with researching how cancers can take hold of some and not others.  DNA and the building blocks of our bodies do use forms of protiens....and there are breaks in our RNA.  Some are environmental....others geno, weak links so to speak.  And yet other's are inherited.  So when in the middle of a battle...tx's and not given any information on why we find ourselves here we do the best we can.  Most institutions offer ensure....boost ect., as it keeps a person knowing they have to have something to get them through.  It's all mind blowing....and a bit confusing in the beginning.  But .....the more information a person can recieve, the better quality of life or a least a good chance at one we will have.  You make me smile sir....continue to stir the pot....you have a kind and good mind !  Hugs sent !  Katie 

Skiffin16 said:

Ensure Plus

Well actually the way that I see it, Ensure Plus is the best way to pack calories in while you can't take in anything else solid. It does have more than just a sprinkling of Vitamins and Minerals, and also has 13G of Protein...

Carbs is where it's at...

I don't particular care about the nutritional value or long term effects... I'm purely packing in calories... Once done with treatment, I'll concentrate on my diet and what is best for me.

It's certainly much better than starving to death, and I'm pretty sure that it has everything you need to survive under the conditions..., and it offers much more bang for the buck than trying to eat solid food, with major pain under those circumstances.

 

Could you get as many calories mixing something up yourself.., maybe, probably..., but I don't want or feel like doing that several times each and every day, when I can just grab a few cans of Ensure...

 

Anyways..., my thoughts...

Vitamins and Minerals [–]

Vitamin A  • Vitamin C • Calcium • Iron • Vitamin D • Vitamin E • Vitamin K • Thiamin • Riboflavin • Niacin • Vitamin B6 • Folate • Vitamin B12 • Biotin • Pantothenic Acid • Phosphorus • Iodine • Magnesium • Zinc • Selenium • Copper • Manganese • Chromium • Molybdenum • Chloride • Choline

 

Nutrition Facts

Serv. Size 1 bottle

(8 fl oz)

Calories 350

Calories from Fat 100

Amount Per Serving

%DV§

Amount Per Serving

%DV§

17%

11g

Fat

5%

1g

Saturated Fat

 

0g

Trans Fat

 

4.5g

Polyunsaturated Fat

 

5g

Monounsaturated Fat

3%

10mg

Cholesterol

9%

220mg

Sodium

11%

400mg

Potassium

17%

50g

Carbohydrate

0%

0g

Dietary Fiber

 

20g

Sugars

26%

 

 

It appears there is a fairly common misperception that warrants clearing up.

Protein shake prep is nearly as easy as grabbing a can!

Really, it does not require any machines or utensils; just a cup and a working wrist. I know you all can come up with these two items.

Over time what follows is my refined method of on-the-go protein shake. I will go real slow; otherwise, it happens too fast, really. LOL

1) Open protein powder tub and put one or two scoops of protein powder into 16-20 oz cup with a sealing top. 10 seconds.
 
2) Add 4 -5 ice cubes, more or less depending on size. 10 seconds

3) Add water/milk to maybe 12 oz., more or less to suit your fancy. 10 seconds

4) Secure the top then Shake, shake, shake and away you go!!!!!!!!

Literally, out the door in less than 45 seconds. It honestly is that amazingly simple.

The ice cubes do a great job to smooth, blend, and cool the otherwise pasty mess the protein mix makes when not properly mixed. The ice adds just the right amount of coolness. You can adjust this too with more/less cubes but make sure you have enough in there to agitate the powder thoroughly.

It is just SO much better for our bodies while repairing the damage received during treatment. More ppl. really would benefit by the extra 45, well 40 seconds net over grabbing a can. Remember those sugar cans are not formulated for those who are undergoing trememdous tissue damage and repair. It's mostly offered just to shove calories into your body to fuel basic body function, not repair the body in any way. Nothing in that stuff builds or repairs tissue.

The other pet peeve I had was the chats with the "expert nutritionists". What a bunch of dummies. They go to university to learn how to flip out a chart showing you weight xxx pounds and your activity is such and such so you should consume x grams of protein, y grams of carbs, etc. My God! Where is the the slider to factor in you are being brutalized by letal chemicals and radiation destroying body tissue?? DOH!

Not a single one of them ever showed me or explained that what they were suggesting was in any way tailored or was adjusted for the ravages and wrath upon a person undergoing chemo and/or radiation treatment. It was the same textbook page ripped out for everyone who was 105 or 15, no matter what the ailment causing the weight loss. What a load of crap!

During the time a human body is subjected to cancer treatments and during recovery, the body needs far more "stuff" - building blocks and materials such as protein and amino acids, the buildfing blocks of healthy tissue generation and subsistenance.

So, no muss and no fuss and literally only seconds more to treat your body and recovery to something that really does make a big improvement.

And not to offend any of the "easy" responses, I suggest one look in the mirror while in the depths of hurt and say what do you want, longer hurt or being well FAST? For the few extra seconds, the choice is a no brainer to me.

Of course, I did not do my doctorate in nutrition but the school of common sense carries the load pretty far down the path of life. 

kidneys, too much protein at once is hard on the kidneys, the chemo especially cisplatin can shut down your kidneys.

I think they want the ensure and boosts to add calories and regulated proteins in one sitting.

I see have seen patients in dialysis from chemo side effects.

we need the protein for sure and I do mix the whey protein in with smoothie but do have to watch the amount and watch his labs.

calories to burn, protein to heal, any way we can get them in is to each his own, i happen to do it both ways for ron.

donfoo said:

sorry for the disjointed responses.

Phrannie - I need your help stirring the pot! Too many "it's easy" crowd around here. It is YOUR health and survival we are talking about gang! Come on, nutrition is beside hydration and pain management are the golden gates to getting on the mend. comne on girl, put on those S..kickers and let's go kick some. After reading this you will have steam shooting out your ears. LOL

Cureitall - As I describe in my other post, mixing up a glass of this sort of protein drink is less than a ONE minute affair. And if the survivor is going six hours for treatments then one minute represents .02% of just that time, an amount he/you could likely afford. You can always mix up a pitcher and put in the refrig. That makes the per serving time even less. Even doubling the recipe makes the time go to .01% extra. :-)

Deb - I agree. If one digs around into the various canned offerings there are some offering a wide range of ingredients that broadly covers the minimum nutritional reqirements.  God forbid, if cancer were to return but do would you still chose a can over what you are now intaking, that is, the protein and vitamin/mineral supplements? just curious if as noobies getting stormed with so many things the first go around, most just are numb and grab what the "doctor orders"?

luv4lacross - Thanks, finally. It would take a poster with an vignette take from the gym to know where I am going. :-) Hope you are doing well in your new locale and routine!

As to the enormous volume of bogus products, even many reommended by licensed nutritionists -- it just makes me scatch my bald head and wonder. Clearly, body builders are the most clued in of all special interest group in fine tuning nutritional intake to produce the greatest result; that is, muscle development, quick repair and maintenance. Excluding the point when crossing into the "roidland" of pro builders, there is lots of really solid relevant, useful, and practical experiences and product out there.

With respect to pricing. Adding to the last comment comment but this time inwardly focused to the health products industry. I've never seen so much manipulation of the facts to alter the appearance of a product, whether it be cost or ingredients or whatever. A simple even self imposed industry guide to post all labeling in a single standard measure such as 50g would go a huge way to clear the fog. But, as we know all know it is the fog that keeps consumers lost and more likely to pick their product by random rather than based on truth.

I spent a lot of time tracking down protein powders, whey mostly, some soy. btw - soy protein is much cheaper and seemingly juast as good. I tracked back to where the dozens of these health food companies and manufacturers obtain their raw materials. There are no true 100% whey protein powders available and if so, it would taste really awful and be prohibitly expensive. Rather, the highest percentage commercially available is 80% whey for example, clocking in at around 25g per ounce. Here is a link to a raw materials company that supplies it in 100 pound brown bags, clearly not for any end users.

http://store.honeyvillegrain.com/wheatproteinisolatewpi50lb.aspxperformance.

Even at this percent, there is a pretty good premium on the per gram cost of the protein. The non isolate products contain less protein per volume but the cost per gram of protein also is more reasonable.

This goes to the heart of why pricing is so manipulated. Remember, we are so far discussing just one raw ingredient. As you say, the "fillers" THEN start going in and you can easily see that you can pay whatever you want. But I would say this is one of those "you get what you pay for" things since there is very else where they can squeeze any other profit margin. I mean how much cost can you squeeze from mixing and bagging(or tub) and affixing a label?

If someone has time and energy. Yes - really the non-easy crowd. You can start with the isloate product and start adding and mixing your own supplements and even pure carb powder in the form of maltodextrin, to create your own super tuned protein powder.

I started this path. No suprises to hear, LOL. Where I got stuck was making the stuff drinkable. It was terrible!!! This is one of the secrets to me in that industry. How they fine tune adding taste compounds to get a really good taste. My hats go off to those few companies who really have dialed in the taste component of their products. This is where I gave up but had enough knowledge to make solid choices of what is available from the dizzying variety.

sin9775 - Everyone does realize that the stuff they shoot into your veins during a PET is sugar water and some radioactive material right? The underlying principle is cancers are hungry cells and love sugar and just drink it up and that is what causes the lighting up on PET since the radioactive material is concentrated in those cells. I am sure eating raw sugar does not make cancer grow faster.  Let's be clear, I don't want a rain down upon my head for that one! Nevertheless, the association between sugar and cancer is ironic.

"T" - Any of the canned sugar is better than eating a tub of ice cream but we are comparing canned sugar pushed by the docs vs the protein/carb powders. And I totally "get" why people have the cans around, My view is it is a very small step beyond to mix up a half or gallon of the powder stuff and stick inside a plastic milk carton and put in the fridge. To each his own.

I FIGHT TO THE DEATH to do the most to repair my body and restore my health as quickly and efficiently as possible.  Is this proven? who knows but I do know mind over matter is proven, so if one believes then I do think that path is more effective.

Meagan, Thank you, oh enlightened one. This thread shows that most are not sufficiently educated to the various facets of drinking canned sugar water. I had not thought about the diabetic angle until you mentioned it, just knowing less simple simple carbs the better. I have no issue with polycarbs, just the monocarbs.

The state of currently served medical expertise served to the masses is ages behind in current nutrition science. Yes, I said it and yes I believe that. While doing my research and sharing my finding with the "experts" and nutritionists they were really glued and amazed and taking in what I was conveying. Even suggested UI teach a class, yeah right. Maybe most were shocked someone would go to such lengths researching a topic. LOL

Like I said earlier, when all they and everyone else can spout a single answer for all then something stinks.  Even something as simple as this calculator makes accomodation for weight and activity level with respect to amount of protein to consume.  And, we all know the brutal punishment rads and chemo do to our bodies creates vastly greater impact on what the body needs during these times.

http://www.musclemilk.com/protein-calculator/

In no way am I disparaging the well intentioned medical professionals who serve us each and every day. Nor am I disparagting anyone who accepts blindly their recommendations without having sufficient alternative options. 

I think the most angst I have is just they and I live in entirely different worlds. Theirs is a world of "standard of care", that set of golden rules and procedures deemed to be appropriate when delivered as suggested. That golden set which drives the insurance industry, that which drives medical malpractice, that which drives teh bigOCare, and many other things.

Obviously, they deal with lives and life and death issues are first and foremost so ultimate safety and being conservative always trump some new fangled idea. Malpractice worries run rampant in their field. They HAVE to follow the rules. They know if they recommend anything outside the standard of care they are subjecting themselves and their associates to huge legal and professional liabilities that can destroy their career as well.

I come from the opposite world where we live "outside the box", innovate very day, every thought is new and fresh. When one starts thinking or living inside the box, their world, we die. Tech moves at the speed of light, several generations of the future are always in the works, that is how we work and think. Rather than the decades of clinical trials and vetting and HUGE sums of money invested by the drug companies to get their product in front of doctors and practioners who then can represent these as vetted and safe therapies and products to you and I. I get that.

Katie - Oh dear Katie! Glad to see your posts and do hope you are continuing the fight. You are so in tune with the soft side and you are so right that when being faced with cancer and the onslaught of side effects, having someone hold a can in front of you and say just drink x of these a day will keep you going is a godsend. I do get that. I just wish people could force open just enough mental space to think about how vital basic fuel of your body is and critical to one's well being and accepting a can of sugar water is really short changing your ability to recover more effectively.

Okay done for now.

John,
Wait for my calorie pissing contest post for your response. :-)

Blending is better than stirring

 "we are comparing canned sugar pushed by the docs vs the protein/carb powders."

Foo,

There is no comparison. The protein powders contain more vitamins, minerals and BCAAs then any canned nutrition and are better for you. I use EAS Whey (vanilla) and Cytosport Monster Mass. The Monster Mass has 50g of protein, 76g of carbs, only 6g of sugar per serving (4 scoops) and contains a whopping 610 calories per serving but it's a heck of a big shake as you mix it with 20oz of water or skim milk. Mix it with 20oz of whole milk and throw in a banana and it's over 1K in calories! But dang! it's a heck of BIG shake to finish. By the time I finish one of those, I'm practically floating! The straight whey powder is easier to consume. 

You're spot on and my team was perfectlly fine with my choice of nutrition powders. Which brings up the point to always check with your team before taking anything. High consumption of protein, especially when you're basically sedentary through treatment and recovery (I was so sick that it was difficult to climb a flight of steps) can be hard on the kidneys. If you're taking in that much protein, you have to drink a ton of water to flush your system. There was a time during treatment that they told me to back off the protein intake as my bloodwork showed my kidneys were struggling. 

I'm doing at least 2 whey shakes a day at home but I keep a 6pak of Ensure in the fridge and probably do 4-5 a week. The rest is made up of soft and solid foods I can get down.

"T" 

phrannie51 said:

It seems if I type more than one

sentence my post goes to CSN hell....

so I'm trying this new way....type one sentence, then go back and edit the post...let's see if this works, huh?

Part of the problem is that most of the people answering in this thread have already been through treatment, and can only answer what they DID....it's already done, and the reasons they did it that way was because that's what the Dr. said, and it was easy at a time when anything easy was like a bright light in a dark room.  I haven't "enjoyed" an Ensure for almost a year....LOL.

There's a very good chance I would have given your way a go if you'd been here first....anything to heal faster (course you manage to get in 16 hours a day of sleep....a VERY healing thing to do....and I couldn't have managed that...can't force sleep like you can food). 

The food thing you have to offer is great for those who are just starting treatment....as long as you tell them to run everything by their Dr.'s.

p

Now let's see if this will actually post....gawd I've wasted a lot of words the last 3 days.

For anyone starting this journey who can prepare the drinks or has a caregiver to prepare them, no doubt they will probably benefit. If I had found this site b4 tx or if my doctor had instructed me to make my own protein shakes, I probably would have done so. I pretty much did what the doctor recommended and ran with it. I will say, if I had been on my own, without wonderful caregivers, there was a point in my tx where I might have passed on feeding simply due to the prep involved.