Costs of Conventional vs. Alternative Therapies
Comments
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whats excess wealth
is it spending all my accessible money flying around the world going to conferences and alt therapies inc supplements? well yes i did, and glad.
i learnt alo about health and medicine on csn and the net, now my doctors treat me with respect because of my resources my money, my focus and knowledge. i have spent 20,000 on extra tests to document my recovery so others who want to learn, can do so, can follow if they so desire. my doctors are presenting recovery at top class medical conferences.
whats worked for me is beyond doubt! i have documented it in more detail than any blog on the net.
i got my life insurance paid out because i am supposed to be dead in 2 months.
i am ned using the best medicine i could find.
this whole discussion shows the tragedy of medical ignorance and arrogance. you can think about how this applies.
i have presented my way to healing and been criticised because i want to save many and help many.
lots of colrectals are getting my help and prayers, not many here nowdays. a few late stage 4 will come and need big miracles.
ted and ren will be helped. my clearest message is holistic healing is the foundation to recovery, not conventional.
and immunotherapy before chemo generally.
in life you get what you pay for. "free" conventional is very costly in terms of lives lost.
Non conventional is excellent value for money in my case, and many others.
the tragedy is cancer patients are fed half truthsinitially when diagnosed, for many its to late
when they realise they have been conned.
i wish everyone the best health, if you are interested in my experience pm me.
i have faith in the world class therapies i have had not those outside of germany.
i have no resources for debate and argument, just my healing and the healing of my friends.
a majority of the therapies i have tried are cheap or free. diet, rest, exercise, meditation, sunshine, fasting.
as my illness progressed i spent more and more to find a way to health beyond chemo ( which clearly kills your immune system and mosts best chance of survival ).
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Very well said...luvinlife2 said:I can see clearly now....
John, thanks for your clarification. Here's what bothers me:
"There’s one thing that bothered (and still bothers) me about all the “alternatives” presented on these forums: It’s the cost of the “alternatives” and “supplements” that so many are overspending their budgets on."
This is typical of the generalizations you and others here have made toward those of us who chose to use alternative treatments. The only fact here is that you know nothing about my budget matters or any of the "many" you refer to. In fact, I would further venture to guess that the only budget you are privy to on this board is your own, so how can you possibly make a statement that so many of us using alternatives are overspending our budgets? Your erroneous statment alone, gives one the impression that alternatives and supplements are expensive and unaffordable, and that those of us who choose to go that path are spending beyond our means. This is the kind of thing that drives people like myself away from this board. All these little "digs" that quite frankly, get old after awhile.
"And that’s “my beef”. If the cost of “alternatives” that are said to work by some individuals is extremely high, those reading about it will assume they can’t afford an alternative that works."
Seriously??? I think your assumption of people, especially "those" of us reading these posts is quite wrong. I think we are a lot smarter than what you seem to be willing to give us credit for. I could be completely wrong, but in my opinion, the folks who have found this place are probably also the kind willing to spend the time to investigate a treatment that sounds promising despite what one person has spent. There are a lot of very intelligent people here who are quite capable of digesting information and making decisions for themselves.
Personally, I don't care if someone wants to spend thousands of dollars or 30 dollars on a treatment. I care about whether or not it is working for that person and I am always so happy for people when they have found something that helps in their management of cancer. I don't come here to push my treatments like some, nor have I ever criticized someone else's choices although mine have been ridiculed many times.
So there was one individual who made a few empassioned statements that he probably should have kept to himself. He wasn't the first person guilty of this but he certainly was he called out on it, wasn't he? However, despite that, it appears according to so many posts his biggest sin is the amount of money he's paid for his alternative treatments. No doubt, if his treatments hadn't worked, you and others would be madly posting about how much money he wasted on his alternative choices. Interestingly enough, no one ever makes a post about the billions of dollars spent on conventional medicine as being a waste of money when the surgeries, radiation and chemo don't work. Sadly, another person has left the building taking with him all his interesting info of other options for cancer treatments. Just like the juicing.
Re: TCM...while I do believe there are many benefits to be had both with disease and general health issues, I have yet to meet or hear of one person who has been completely cured from their stage 4 cancer diagnosis without any type of other medical intervention. Unfortunately, the people I know personally who made the decision to completely rely on TCM to cure their late stage cancer have passed on. My cancer clinic is full of immigrants from China who believe conventional medicine will cure their cancer rather than the traditional medicine of their homeland. Go figure.
Thank you for putting this so well, Luvinlife. These are my feelings exactly.
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Thanks Ann….annalexandria said:Hmm...Pete's threads
have typically been filled with people (myself included) being very supportive of him. I don't think he's been "continually" riduculed by any means.
He did get some flack for calling people here at CSN "sheep", stating that we don't "care" about our own survival because we don't jump on an airplane and follow his example, comparing people eating sugar to heroin addicts, and numerous other inflammatory comments.
It's not the specifics of Pete's journey that bother me. It's all the unkind editorializing of virtually every other cancer patient in the world that I find disurbing.
AA
For typing so eloquently what I was attempting to put into words.
Best wishes,
John
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Petepete43lost_at_sea said:whats excess wealth
is it spending all my accessible money flying around the world going to conferences and alt therapies inc supplements? well yes i did, and glad.
i learnt alo about health and medicine on csn and the net, now my doctors treat me with respect because of my resources my money, my focus and knowledge. i have spent 20,000 on extra tests to document my recovery so others who want to learn, can do so, can follow if they so desire. my doctors are presenting recovery at top class medical conferences.
whats worked for me is beyond doubt! i have documented it in more detail than any blog on the net.
i got my life insurance paid out because i am supposed to be dead in 2 months.
i am ned using the best medicine i could find.
this whole discussion shows the tragedy of medical ignorance and arrogance. you can think about how this applies.
i have presented my way to healing and been criticised because i want to save many and help many.
lots of colrectals are getting my help and prayers, not many here nowdays. a few late stage 4 will come and need big miracles.
ted and ren will be helped. my clearest message is holistic healing is the foundation to recovery, not conventional.
and immunotherapy before chemo generally.
in life you get what you pay for. "free" conventional is very costly in terms of lives lost.
Non conventional is excellent value for money in my case, and many others.
the tragedy is cancer patients are fed half truthsinitially when diagnosed, for many its to late
when they realise they have been conned.
i wish everyone the best health, if you are interested in my experience pm me.
i have faith in the world class therapies i have had not those outside of germany.
i have no resources for debate and argument, just my healing and the healing of my friends.
a majority of the therapies i have tried are cheap or free. diet, rest, exercise, meditation, sunshine, fasting.
as my illness progressed i spent more and more to find a way to health beyond chemo ( which clearly kills your immune system and mosts best chance of survival ).
Why do you consistently compare your experience to (almost) everyone's experience here? It's apples & oranges. No one here gets "free" treatment, we pay for health insurance and pay taxes etc.
I'm glad that what worked for you worked for you but again, you're almost always going on the assumption that your route is the only way and there's a 100% money back guarantee that everyone will be cured.
It's reckless at best to be making those assumptions. Doesn't that ever dawn on you that there are other routes? Has it become how it appears, it's My-way or the Die-way?
I still want to believe that you wish to help others but I truly believe that somewhere you've gotten off-track and now if everyone's not 100% behind you we are somehow the enemy.
Cancer is the enemy, not us with our differing opinions Pete.
As far as your question "what's excess wealth" your own comments that follow that question give the answer you seek. I'm very sorry that you had to show your doctors your wealth in order to get "respect" that all patients deserve.
Good luck...
Be thankful that spelling didn't count!
:-)
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:-)luvinlife2 said:I can see clearly now....
John, thanks for your clarification. Here's what bothers me:
"There’s one thing that bothered (and still bothers) me about all the “alternatives” presented on these forums: It’s the cost of the “alternatives” and “supplements” that so many are overspending their budgets on."
This is typical of the generalizations you and others here have made toward those of us who chose to use alternative treatments. The only fact here is that you know nothing about my budget matters or any of the "many" you refer to. In fact, I would further venture to guess that the only budget you are privy to on this board is your own, so how can you possibly make a statement that so many of us using alternatives are overspending our budgets? Your erroneous statment alone, gives one the impression that alternatives and supplements are expensive and unaffordable, and that those of us who choose to go that path are spending beyond our means. This is the kind of thing that drives people like myself away from this board. All these little "digs" that quite frankly, get old after awhile.
"And that’s “my beef”. If the cost of “alternatives” that are said to work by some individuals is extremely high, those reading about it will assume they can’t afford an alternative that works."
Seriously??? I think your assumption of people, especially "those" of us reading these posts is quite wrong. I think we are a lot smarter than what you seem to be willing to give us credit for. I could be completely wrong, but in my opinion, the folks who have found this place are probably also the kind willing to spend the time to investigate a treatment that sounds promising despite what one person has spent. There are a lot of very intelligent people here who are quite capable of digesting information and making decisions for themselves.
Personally, I don't care if someone wants to spend thousands of dollars or 30 dollars on a treatment. I care about whether or not it is working for that person and I am always so happy for people when they have found something that helps in their management of cancer. I don't come here to push my treatments like some, nor have I ever criticized someone else's choices although mine have been ridiculed many times.
So there was one individual who made a few empassioned statements that he probably should have kept to himself. He wasn't the first person guilty of this but he certainly was he called out on it, wasn't he? However, despite that, it appears according to so many posts his biggest sin is the amount of money he's paid for his alternative treatments. No doubt, if his treatments hadn't worked, you and others would be madly posting about how much money he wasted on his alternative choices. Interestingly enough, no one ever makes a post about the billions of dollars spent on conventional medicine as being a waste of money when the surgeries, radiation and chemo don't work. Sadly, another person has left the building taking with him all his interesting info of other options for cancer treatments. Just like the juicing.
Re: TCM...while I do believe there are many benefits to be had both with disease and general health issues, I have yet to meet or hear of one person who has been completely cured from their stage 4 cancer diagnosis without any type of other medical intervention. Unfortunately, the people I know personally who made the decision to completely rely on TCM to cure their late stage cancer have passed on. My cancer clinic is full of immigrants from China who believe conventional medicine will cure their cancer rather than the traditional medicine of their homeland. Go figure.
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:-)devotion10 said:Kindly request we do not take this post in that direction
There have been many discussions through the years as to whether we should request the tone of posts to feel safe for all members or whether we look the other way when a member says inflammatory things.
Forgive me if it sounds like I am trying to censor your comment, I do not mean to -- you have every right to post your thoughts -- but, maybe it would be best to start a new thread and those who wish to repond may.
Thank you. -- Cynthia
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it not my way or the die , but dam maybe it is, i hope it is!PhillieG said:Pete
Why do you consistently compare your experience to (almost) everyone's experience here? It's apples & oranges. No one here gets "free" treatment, we pay for health insurance and pay taxes etc.
I'm glad that what worked for you worked for you but again, you're almost always going on the assumption that your route is the only way and there's a 100% money back guarantee that everyone will be cured.
It's reckless at best to be making those assumptions. Doesn't that ever dawn on you that there are other routes? Has it become how it appears, it's My-way or the Die-way?
I still want to believe that you wish to help others but I truly believe that somewhere you've gotten off-track and now if everyone's not 100% behind you we are somehow the enemy.
Cancer is the enemy, not us with our differing opinions Pete.
As far as your question "what's excess wealth" your own comments that follow that question give the answer you seek. I'm very sorry that you had to show your doctors your wealth in order to get "respect" that all patients deserve.
Good luck...
Be thankful that spelling didn't count!
:-)
I honestly don't know phil, i have just said, what i tried may work. it may help if you stairring palliative chemo in the face like i was and many here do every fortnight.
i just have my opinion and experience and present it. my hope is that whats worked for me keeps on working. i have faith in the keep on trying therapies approach.
if its not working move on, dont get stuck in a steady down spiral of chemo. dont preclude immunotherapy.
i am human, just like you and all those here doing conventional. my dna is 99.x% the same as yours. the argument what works for one may not work for all
i am so glad god was not an english teacher or i would be in trouble. more trouble than i already am.
what my doctor respected i suspect was the spend whatever it takes to get me well. i quickly formed the opinion they were honest and reputable. i had a good vibe and said go for it, save my cancer ridden ****. i always suggested more tests, more therapies. can we do this, can we do that. well its been done so far.
alas phil, i am calling it the way i see it. i have left all those doing chemo in peace. i chime in here very infrequently and this post caught my eye as it seemed directed at my experience.
if these style of therapies, that have helped me, have the potential to help others, i feel duty bound to proclaim it loud and clear. I was on voice of america this morning. i am trying to be diplomatic and considerate. but its hard when you are an elephant in the china shop.
its past midnight in istanbul, i got to sleep.
i sincerely wish everyone here the best health possible and i have clearly presented my therapies and experience.
"removab" works for most colorectals from what i have been told, to what extent, thats up to god and each of us and the state of our immune system.
the battle for our existence every and any tool at our disposal is a potential weapon against cancer, nothing wrong with the brute force approach. in that context what ans said above about "blown a ton". well thats his opinion, its not mine, i think i very wisely invested every cent.
as far as i know it, i have had the most dramatic turnaround out of all the doctors i have met at the medical conferences.
its ironic that i am more inspiring for the alternative doctors seeking ways to make immunotherapy more effective, than most of my fellow cancer patients. I guess we have
a health system that delivers the terminal message very clearly to stage 4.
now i think about it, its definitely not my way, its definitely not chemos way, lets just say somewhere in between, we each may have a way through this illness, that we have to find. This is based on personalised medicine and that we are all so different including our tumours.
if someone wants to "sell the farm" or whatever trying i will be the first to encourage them,
if someone wants to "try the ketogenic diet" i will also encourage them,
if someone wants to "try chemo" i will also encourage them and pray it works, ( but then we are asking for a miracle )
from my experience gods given us an immune system that can work and function, even when its been folfoxed ( like mine ) and it still could eat my tumours.
for those trying conventional first , and i was one.
just keep on trying therapies and learning until you find something that works for you.
maybe the fact i am a mutant like lisa42 and many others here and many of my other colorectal friends. that i went extreme very very quickly into the stage 4 battle as developing multidrug resistance was something i had to avoid. so chemo is defintely precluded. te rest is history and removab, tace and dendritic cell vaccine still offers the best set of therapies for stage 4 colorectals.
we have all come to far not to call a spade a spade. if i am too out spoke then i am sorry, skip my opinions and do whatever you want. if you are interested read my blog, or listen to me on voice of america, the health channel. i am trying to be more diplomatic.
I sincerely hope and pray that i am right and most here are all wrong about your assessments of my therapies and my message. As whatever "my way" is its a valid set of sound medical therapies that at least has curative potential for stage 4 colorectal. if i don't advocat it, who will ?
A prayer for me, for Ren, for Ted and a few other colorectals would not go astray. we will all know soon enough if "my way" is worthwhile. I will point out that none of those going to hallwang are doing "gcmaf probiotic yogurt" or have sufficiently detoxed to the extent i did. i have once suggested here that it might be prudent to try most of the things i tried in the first 10 weeks of hallwang. then the only variable will be genetics, epigentics, health state on going in ( that includes detox status )
my laptop battery is dieing and i must go
hugs,
pete
ps for the record john23 i tried tcm seriously for about 2 years and i may have helped but did not cure me, i moved on, your presenting tcm as a curative therapy is misleading of many. i know of no late stage colorectals who have been saved exclusively by tcm. my tcm practioneer is arguably australias best. i pm'd my herbal mix to you for comment when things started to get bad. just for the record i tried tcm almost everyday of the 10 months my cea was climbing from5.9 to 81. it kept rising desipte drinking that god aweful tea three times a day. i feel as the only other tcm consume active on csn my exact experience would serve as a clear warning about tcm. if its not working after a few months move on, if not faster. i am glad my life insurance paid out, that i went to the worlds most innovative medical care based on immunotherapy. maybe all my tcm helped keep me well enough for the immunotherapies to work. but it did not work on its own, thats my experience and warning to all new commers.
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Why in the worldpete43lost_at_sea said:it not my way or the die , but dam maybe it is, i hope it is!
I honestly don't know phil, i have just said, what i tried may work. it may help if you stairring palliative chemo in the face like i was and many here do every fortnight.
i just have my opinion and experience and present it. my hope is that whats worked for me keeps on working. i have faith in the keep on trying therapies approach.
if its not working move on, dont get stuck in a steady down spiral of chemo. dont preclude immunotherapy.
i am human, just like you and all those here doing conventional. my dna is 99.x% the same as yours. the argument what works for one may not work for all
i am so glad god was not an english teacher or i would be in trouble. more trouble than i already am.
what my doctor respected i suspect was the spend whatever it takes to get me well. i quickly formed the opinion they were honest and reputable. i had a good vibe and said go for it, save my cancer ridden ****. i always suggested more tests, more therapies. can we do this, can we do that. well its been done so far.
alas phil, i am calling it the way i see it. i have left all those doing chemo in peace. i chime in here very infrequently and this post caught my eye as it seemed directed at my experience.
if these style of therapies, that have helped me, have the potential to help others, i feel duty bound to proclaim it loud and clear. I was on voice of america this morning. i am trying to be diplomatic and considerate. but its hard when you are an elephant in the china shop.
its past midnight in istanbul, i got to sleep.
i sincerely wish everyone here the best health possible and i have clearly presented my therapies and experience.
"removab" works for most colorectals from what i have been told, to what extent, thats up to god and each of us and the state of our immune system.
the battle for our existence every and any tool at our disposal is a potential weapon against cancer, nothing wrong with the brute force approach. in that context what ans said above about "blown a ton". well thats his opinion, its not mine, i think i very wisely invested every cent.
as far as i know it, i have had the most dramatic turnaround out of all the doctors i have met at the medical conferences.
its ironic that i am more inspiring for the alternative doctors seeking ways to make immunotherapy more effective, than most of my fellow cancer patients. I guess we have
a health system that delivers the terminal message very clearly to stage 4.
now i think about it, its definitely not my way, its definitely not chemos way, lets just say somewhere in between, we each may have a way through this illness, that we have to find. This is based on personalised medicine and that we are all so different including our tumours.
if someone wants to "sell the farm" or whatever trying i will be the first to encourage them,
if someone wants to "try the ketogenic diet" i will also encourage them,
if someone wants to "try chemo" i will also encourage them and pray it works, ( but then we are asking for a miracle )
from my experience gods given us an immune system that can work and function, even when its been folfoxed ( like mine ) and it still could eat my tumours.
for those trying conventional first , and i was one.
just keep on trying therapies and learning until you find something that works for you.
maybe the fact i am a mutant like lisa42 and many others here and many of my other colorectal friends. that i went extreme very very quickly into the stage 4 battle as developing multidrug resistance was something i had to avoid. so chemo is defintely precluded. te rest is history and removab, tace and dendritic cell vaccine still offers the best set of therapies for stage 4 colorectals.
we have all come to far not to call a spade a spade. if i am too out spoke then i am sorry, skip my opinions and do whatever you want. if you are interested read my blog, or listen to me on voice of america, the health channel. i am trying to be more diplomatic.
I sincerely hope and pray that i am right and most here are all wrong about your assessments of my therapies and my message. As whatever "my way" is its a valid set of sound medical therapies that at least has curative potential for stage 4 colorectal. if i don't advocat it, who will ?
A prayer for me, for Ren, for Ted and a few other colorectals would not go astray. we will all know soon enough if "my way" is worthwhile. I will point out that none of those going to hallwang are doing "gcmaf probiotic yogurt" or have sufficiently detoxed to the extent i did. i have once suggested here that it might be prudent to try most of the things i tried in the first 10 weeks of hallwang. then the only variable will be genetics, epigentics, health state on going in ( that includes detox status )
my laptop battery is dieing and i must go
hugs,
pete
ps for the record john23 i tried tcm seriously for about 2 years and i may have helped but did not cure me, i moved on, your presenting tcm as a curative therapy is misleading of many. i know of no late stage colorectals who have been saved exclusively by tcm. my tcm practioneer is arguably australias best. i pm'd my herbal mix to you for comment when things started to get bad. just for the record i tried tcm almost everyday of the 10 months my cea was climbing from5.9 to 81. it kept rising desipte drinking that god aweful tea three times a day. i feel as the only other tcm consume active on csn my exact experience would serve as a clear warning about tcm. if its not working after a few months move on, if not faster. i am glad my life insurance paid out, that i went to the worlds most innovative medical care based on immunotherapy. maybe all my tcm helped keep me well enough for the immunotherapies to work. but it did not work on its own, thats my experience and warning to all new commers.
Would you say " it's not my way or the die, but dam maybe it is, I Hope"??? you hope your way Or we die way. Gee, thanks Pete.
I'm just going to say it aloud what your writings brings to mind. Narcissistic way of thinking there.
hugs,
Winter Marie
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actually the flack was in my i love thomas threadannalexandria said:Hmm...Pete's threads
have typically been filled with people (myself included) being very supportive of him. I don't think he's been "continually" riduculed by any means.
He did get some flack for calling people here at CSN "sheep", stating that we don't "care" about our own survival because we don't jump on an airplane and follow his example, comparing people eating sugar to heroin addicts, and numerous other inflammatory comments.
It's not the specifics of Pete's journey that bother me. It's all the unkind editorializing of virtually every other cancer patient in the world that I find disurbing.
AA
so AA and most here, well I feel like i have been continually ridiculed here ( hundreds of times at least, if not thousands ) and ignored by many of the old chemos here. thats fine, when they had the chance to put the knives, they went for it. I am human, I bleed like everyone, leaving the hurtful subgroup here to its own devices my clearest way of surviving. My survival instincts are well developed.
maybe thats a side effect of long term chemo. To be balanced i have also had plenty of support from many here, even the ridicule has been positive, i made it positive. I had developed the thick skin and often had to research my therapies to defend them from constant attack ( actually before your time here ).
not to many negative complaints about the sheep analogy. i thought it was such a powerful and effective analogy. alas it back fired, then again at least i tried in a clumsy way to explain why chemo and immunotherapy are largely mutually exclusive to my knowledge and experience.
lets look at my posts as a big experiment in human survival. I have presented a potential way for inoperable stage 4, where none besides chemo for life existed, however long life maybe.
I have been amazed at the response to my therapy success, I clearly see how different I am in choosing my therapies. Many of my new friends have congratulated me on my wisdom, in choosing therapies that work, and for documenting my path so thoroughly. I put all that effort in when i only had a dream of success. I have a hand full of friends who really appreciate my story and i guess the message i feel it tells. I have many here I have upset, and I leave you guys alone now in peace to your own research.
I do wonder about reinventing the wheel, but thats everyones own decision. my wheel is well documented.
I guess you call me "unkind" when i was trying to be "kind" , maybe i was too blunt, but anyway I made my points as clearly as I could, they have been washed away like "foot steps in the sand after high tide" , no one here will tell newbies, my story, my set of therapies. so they start on chemo, before trying immunotherapies, a huge mistake according to my research and experience. their survival alas is in their hands.
the sugar and heroin, well its still my opinion. look my kids still have more fanta than i like, i don't have any sugar or fruit ZERO, but thats because i have a serious cancer recurrence risk and I want to shut down the cancer cells energy source, and the growth promoter insulin, etc etc , etc. all this provided in the msk ceo lecture that so few watched.
How do I warn people of what I have learned, I guess just my blog now, sorry but i cared enough to put my beliefs clearly on the table, and what did I learn. the mob behaviour, someone who voices a different opinion gets attacked from every conceivable angle, from spelling , to spending and everything in between.
my greatest consolation was that the science of what my life depends on was not even touched. Not one credible critic of the msk lectures, the ketogenic diet or mercola. I thank god for that. it clearly shows the level of debate in this forum. I guess if you cannot dent the argument, attack the speaker.
my folly was to try and get support here for my attempt at the ketogenic diet and maybe just maybe find someone else willing to do it with me. its lonely being a ketogenic colorectal. not one other colorectal ketogenic friend so far to share progress and failures with. just me on my own, thats fine, thats the way life is.
So time will tell, who was unkind. For the record, I am contrarian not for the sake of it, but that was the only way I could find a way to live. I was as conventional as most at the beginning except for juicing and weight loss and exercise, which started day 1 almost.
if the ultra low carb and or ketogenic diet is the gold standard for treatment in a few years, i wonder how my attackers will feel.
So I am gambling my life on my unique set of therapy choices, i have been lucky. some say, well I wish everyone the best luck. Maybe I have made my own luck, if I have I hope you can also be lucky with whatever your treatment is.
hugs,
Pete
PS if you have any interest in the ketogenic diet or removab, dendritic cell vaccine or any of my alternative therapies send me a pm
PPS if i am attacked in public i feel I should defend myself, I would prefer not to be mentioned here again, unless someone has some positive and kind comments.
I really do take offense to " virtually every other cancer patient in the world " , and that I have been unkind to them. I can just as equally make that statement about all my attackers.
PPPS try and put yourself in my shoes, 12 month death sentence, then you get NED using the newest therapies and diet and lifestyle. I have suggested fellow patients at least research the therapies if they are interested. that so few were interested i found amazing! i still do. If I stop being attacked in public here, I will stop defending myself. Mind you even this entire thread is an attack in a way, i choose to ignore it until my name was mentioned.
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my oncologist only offered palliativeherdizziness said:Why in the world
Would you say " it's not my way or the die, but dam maybe it is, I Hope"??? you hope your way Or we die way. Gee, thanks Pete.
I'm just going to say it aloud what your writings brings to mind. Narcissistic way of thinking there.
hugs,
Winter Marie
my way represents the only potential way to recover from inoperable diverse peritoneal, liver and lung mets.
I hope my way works, because existing therapies don't offer hope. Thats why I hope!
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Oh my ....
I go away for a day and look what's happened ...
For my part:
1. I have never been anti-alternative and I have tried to continue an interest and discussion in CAM treatments by suggesting a special way to title those posts so that those interested may notice and share information.
2. I support now, and have always supported, the right of each individual to decide their own treatment.
3. I see the vast majority on the board have been amazingly open, accepting, and supportive of alternative treatments.
4. Never was the issue for me with Pete, or anyone else's, alternative treatment choices. I don't think there is one person on this board who wouldn't rejoice if Pete's treatments, or someone else's, leads to not only to their survival ... but potentially the survival of others.
5. I do have a problem with Pete, or anyone else, who implies that they are doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong -- that is simply not respectful, not supportive, not kind, and rather delusional.
6. The issue with Pete, and others in the past, has been the inflammatory and righteous tone of their posts. For Pete, this unfortunately continues to this day both here and on his blog. I don't come here, and I will not go there, to be insulted or disrespected. That is me ... some just look the other way ... I take those things to heart.
I may regret being pulled back to this discussion ... but, out of respect, honor, and devotion for my very ill husband who is dying from this disease -- I will not sit quietly nor will I ever forgive someone classifying him as one of the pathetic conventional treatment sheep.
I wish you all nothing but the best as you navigate this challenging journey and courage to make difficult personal treatment decisions. I will continue to fight to keep this board a safe place for all and if that means calling someone out who is repeatedly disrespectful, well then, I'm your gal. -- Cynthia
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its a good discussion, trying to keep it civildevotion10 said:Oh my ....
I go away for a day and look what's happened ...
For my part:
1. I have never been anti-alternative and I have tried to continue an interest and discussion in CAM treatments by suggesting a special way to title those posts so that those interested may notice and share information.
2. I support now, and have always supported, the right of each individual to decide their own treatment.
3. I see the vast majority on the board have been amazingly open, accepting, and supportive of alternative treatments.
4. Never was the issue for me with Pete, or anyone else's, alternative treatment choices. I don't think there is one person on this board who wouldn't rejoice if Pete's treatments, or someone else's, leads to not only to their survival ... but potentially the survival of others.
5. I do have a problem with Pete, or anyone else, who implies that they are doing it right and everyone else is doing it wrong -- that is simply not respectful, not supportive, not kind, and rather delusional.
6. The issue with Pete, and others in the past, has been the inflammatory and righteous tone of their posts. For Pete, this unfortunately continues to this day both here and on his blog. I don't come here, and I will not go there, to be insulted or disrespected. That is me ... some just look the other way ... I take those things to heart.
I may regret being pulled back to this discussion ... but, out of respect, honor, and devotion for my very ill husband who is dying from this disease -- I will not sit quietly nor will I ever forgive someone classifying him as one of the pathetic conventional treatment sheep.
I wish you all nothing but the best as you navigate this challenging journey and courage to make difficult personal treatment decisions. I will continue to fight to keep this board a safe place for all and if that means calling someone out who is repeatedly disrespectful, well then, I'm your gal. -- Cynthia
I am sorry your husband is so ill. I have already apologised for the sheep comments.
I have shared how I am spending my life insurance payout, is that the excess wealth you are referring to ? regardless we are all entitled to pursue whatever therapies we believe in and share them here and I think also what we have learned. I only speak for myself, and suggest that if someone with a palliative diagnosis wants to consider "non conventional" therapies then that their right and they should be supported, not discouraged as often happens here for some reason. See "i love thomas thread"
"It is not the personal decisions that someone makes with their money or their treatments that I find disturbing ... it is the discussion of one's excess wealth that has seemed sometimes insensitive when many on this board are struggling not only with their cancer diagnosis and treatments ... but, with serious financial concerns. Also, there was the insinuation that those who would not sell the farm for alternative treatments were not seriously interested in their health or well-being."
I only advocate "selling the farm" for potentially effective uproven therapies in a palliative context, alas, that a majority of stage 4 colorectals.
You desire to keep the board a safe place needs to be balanced with promoting the best achievable health using appropriate therapies. whats disrespectful about telling my story and the chemo precludes immunotherapy ?
I will continue to try and promote effective therapies based on the latest science that are accessible that I have personal experience with. If someone seeks to dissaude patients from accessing life saving therapies, well then, I'm your guy. - Pete
PS I the interest of keeping this civil, I have made my point and will not comment further in public. PM me if you want to.
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Annannalexandria said:Hmm...Pete's threads
have typically been filled with people (myself included) being very supportive of him. I don't think he's been "continually" riduculed by any means.
He did get some flack for calling people here at CSN "sheep", stating that we don't "care" about our own survival because we don't jump on an airplane and follow his example, comparing people eating sugar to heroin addicts, and numerous other inflammatory comments.
It's not the specifics of Pete's journey that bother me. It's all the unkind editorializing of virtually every other cancer patient in the world that I find disurbing.
AA
Said it so very well.
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Changed my mind ... I will not ask Greta for this thread to
be deleted ... I will let it stand as is. Folks can read it and draw their own conclusions. -- Cynthia
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OK folks ... after Pete's last post to AA ... I'm pulling it.
I started this thread and I am going to end this thread.
Tomorrow I will ask Greta to delete it.
It was not my intention to start this up again and I requested everyone to be civil.
Let's all get back to helping each other tomorrow morning.
I don't need this.
Nobody needs this.
I mean really folks we don't need this.
I take full responsibility for starting this conversation and it has gone in a totally different direction than I thought it might ... my mistake.
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Mine offer hopepete43lost_at_sea said:my oncologist only offered palliative
my way represents the only potential way to recover from inoperable diverse peritoneal, liver and lung mets.
I hope my way works, because existing therapies don't offer hope. Thats why I hope!
My conventional therapies offer me hope, I was given two weeks without chemo, 4 to 6 months with chemo. My CEA was over 2000, I was in dire straits. Over 3 years later I'm still here. I don't need to be told my therapy doesn't offer hope, none of us do. You can stop telling us we don't have hope, and aren't given hope, WE have plenty of hope.
Winter Marie
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Pete-
your feelings have been hurt by this situation, and I am truly sorry for that. If you look back at your threads, you will see me cheering you on from the beginning of my time here at CSN. I cannot stress enough how much I wish you well in the journey. I'm going to try my best to stay out of your threads (although this one is actually Cynthia's), but I do feel strongly that your attitude toward those of us who are taking a more conventional path has been lacking in understanding and kindness. But I've tried to talk to you privately about this and it's clear that you feel that all the fault is on the other side. Anyone who reads your blog will see how you feel about those of us who follow a conventional path (or even a different alternative path, in John's case). I base my comment about "virtually every other cancer patient" on both your comments here and on your blog (where you recently said that " to be honest i think these doctors are actually let down by cancer patients not fighting hard enough for survival"...wth, Pete?).
Anyway, I don't need to comment further on this. AA
ETA I was in your shoes in the fall of 2011, Pete. I was given a terminal diagnosis at that time. My life was saved by conventional surgery.
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please leave it alonedevotion10 said:OK folks ... after Pete's last post to AA ... I'm pulling it.
I started this thread and I am going to end this thread.
Tomorrow I will ask Greta to delete it.
It was not my intention to start this up again and I requested everyone to be civil.
Let's all get back to helping each other tomorrow morning.
I don't need this.
Nobody needs this.
I mean really folks we don't need this.
I take full responsibility for starting this conversation and it has gone in a totally different direction than I thought it might ... my mistake.
Cynthia,
I am sorry this thread has deteriorated. Let it be, but please don't delete. Others' contributions are not retracted and made to all.
Honestly sometimes I feel like I am getting Alzheimers from deleted threads when I go searching for something.
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OK, OK, OKpete43lost_at_sea said:its a good discussion, trying to keep it civil
I am sorry your husband is so ill. I have already apologised for the sheep comments.
I have shared how I am spending my life insurance payout, is that the excess wealth you are referring to ? regardless we are all entitled to pursue whatever therapies we believe in and share them here and I think also what we have learned. I only speak for myself, and suggest that if someone with a palliative diagnosis wants to consider "non conventional" therapies then that their right and they should be supported, not discouraged as often happens here for some reason. See "i love thomas thread"
"It is not the personal decisions that someone makes with their money or their treatments that I find disturbing ... it is the discussion of one's excess wealth that has seemed sometimes insensitive when many on this board are struggling not only with their cancer diagnosis and treatments ... but, with serious financial concerns. Also, there was the insinuation that those who would not sell the farm for alternative treatments were not seriously interested in their health or well-being."
I only advocate "selling the farm" for potentially effective uproven therapies in a palliative context, alas, that a majority of stage 4 colorectals.
You desire to keep the board a safe place needs to be balanced with promoting the best achievable health using appropriate therapies. whats disrespectful about telling my story and the chemo precludes immunotherapy ?
I will continue to try and promote effective therapies based on the latest science that are accessible that I have personal experience with. If someone seeks to dissaude patients from accessing life saving therapies, well then, I'm your guy. - Pete
PS I the interest of keeping this civil, I have made my point and will not comment further in public. PM me if you want to.
OK, OK, OK
Can we all just (((((HUG))))) now?
(oops... are my pants wet?)
Best wishes youse guys.
John
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Yes, tanstaafl ... you are right.tanstaafl said:please leave it alone
Cynthia,
I am sorry this thread has deteriorated. Let it be, but please don't delete. Others' contributions are not retracted and made to all.
Honestly sometimes I feel like I am getting Alzheimers from deleted threads when I go searching for something.
The thread will stand as is ... I am just sorry that it took a bad turn, I guess it was a bit risky. I had just hoped that we could share some thoughts openly without the rants, but everyone has a right to post and voice their feelings so it is what it is. -- Cynthia
0
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