CEA
For the third consecutive treatment, my CEA has gone up. Four treatments ago (29 May) it was 129 and today it's at 276. I'd been being optimistic that this was dead cancer cells being sloughed off, but now we know it's a trend. The first two rises were pretty minimal but this last one was almost 100 points. The CEA marker has always been pretty reliable for my treatment, so this trend is of definite concern. I spoke with the onc yesterday and he's got me pretty much maxed on the victibix, ironitican and 5-FU, but when I go for disconnect tomorrow they're gong to draw blood to see if my 5-FU level can be increased. I'm also going to check to see if I'm eligible for liver surgery yet and if not, why?
Comments
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Sounds Frustrating
I have to say that I am sorry the treatment has not gone better for you Doc. Are there any other reasons that the CEA could rise? when is the next scan to see if even though the CEA is up perhaps the primary met has shrunk. Hang in there Doc this is hopefully just a minor speed bump on the road to recovery for you. (((HUGS))) and positive vibes of healing and comfort.0 -
Doc_Hawk -
If you take some time and read an old post of mine, you might find
yourself feeling a bit better!
The thread is here: http://csn.cancer.org/node/201101
Please pay particular attention to the last link I had provided, it tells
more about CEA results than you might have imagined!
Be well!
John0 -
this stinks
This stinks even though cease could be up for some otherreason. I always say this is such a roller coaster ride...pray this cease reading will improve quickly. Jeff0 -
Dang it...
I hate to read this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this doesn't reflect cancer growth, or if it does, that your docs can do something surgically. Being one of those for whom chemo never worked, I'm a big fan of surgery. Can't remember...have you had a scan recently? Or will you be having one soon? Thinking nothing but good thoughts for you-Ann0 -
thanks allannalexandria said:Dang it...
I hate to read this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this doesn't reflect cancer growth, or if it does, that your docs can do something surgically. Being one of those for whom chemo never worked, I'm a big fan of surgery. Can't remember...have you had a scan recently? Or will you be having one soon? Thinking nothing but good thoughts for you-Ann
I did have a scan back in May that showed that the primary tumor was gone, the one in my right lung was gone and for the first time we could count that there are six tumors in my liver, the largest of which was a fifth of the size it was last year. I'm being abducted by aliens for invasive probing ... I mean, I'm getting a colonoscopy on Tuesday. It's going to take one - two weeks for the result of the blood work tomorrow and the nurse is going to check with the onc to see if I can have surgery yet and if not, why. I've really been wondering when the cancer would become resistant to the chemo, it's been over a year straight that I've been on the 5-FU and victibix cocktail so it has been just a matter of time. I'll keep all y'all posted.
Thanks again!
Hugs to all,
Doc0 -
What to do?
Rising CEAs are so hard to interpret and treatment decisions shouldn't be based on that alone. It's good that they aren't simply stopping treatment or thinking that this indicates the treatment isn't doing anything. There is evidence that even if your tumours aren't shrinking on things like vectibix it may be worth persisting as they may still slow growth and spread. Is it time for more scans to check progress? What about symptoms- are you feeling worse or better?
As has been pointed out it is early in the course of treatment and there are the thoughts around dying cells releasing CEA that has led to suggestions of persisting for a period of 6 months before deciding if rising CEA indicates nonresponse.
I also know you are a realist and know that this may indicate the tumours progressing despite the treatment. Sometimes bad news is simply that, no matter how we try to dress it up as something else. If so you also need to consider your own individual situation and not be ruled by the protocols that direct so much of our treatment. Are these drugs causing side effects that reduce the quality of your life? How do you personally balance those against the benefits as you personally see them? What are your other options beyond this cocktail- as you move beyond the protocols you may become more eligible for newer treatments and trials.
No easy answers, just more difficult decisions. My thoughts are with you and I remain hopeful you find a way forward again.
steve0 -
Doc-HawkDoc_Hawk said:thanks all
I did have a scan back in May that showed that the primary tumor was gone, the one in my right lung was gone and for the first time we could count that there are six tumors in my liver, the largest of which was a fifth of the size it was last year. I'm being abducted by aliens for invasive probing ... I mean, I'm getting a colonoscopy on Tuesday. It's going to take one - two weeks for the result of the blood work tomorrow and the nurse is going to check with the onc to see if I can have surgery yet and if not, why. I've really been wondering when the cancer would become resistant to the chemo, it's been over a year straight that I've been on the 5-FU and victibix cocktail so it has been just a matter of time. I'll keep all y'all posted.
Thanks again!
Hugs to all,
Doc
One of my oncology nurses said " Be good to yourself," It applies to you too Doc0 -
treatment and side effectssteved said:What to do?
Rising CEAs are so hard to interpret and treatment decisions shouldn't be based on that alone. It's good that they aren't simply stopping treatment or thinking that this indicates the treatment isn't doing anything. There is evidence that even if your tumours aren't shrinking on things like vectibix it may be worth persisting as they may still slow growth and spread. Is it time for more scans to check progress? What about symptoms- are you feeling worse or better?
As has been pointed out it is early in the course of treatment and there are the thoughts around dying cells releasing CEA that has led to suggestions of persisting for a period of 6 months before deciding if rising CEA indicates nonresponse.
I also know you are a realist and know that this may indicate the tumours progressing despite the treatment. Sometimes bad news is simply that, no matter how we try to dress it up as something else. If so you also need to consider your own individual situation and not be ruled by the protocols that direct so much of our treatment. Are these drugs causing side effects that reduce the quality of your life? How do you personally balance those against the benefits as you personally see them? What are your other options beyond this cocktail- as you move beyond the protocols you may become more eligible for newer treatments and trials.
No easy answers, just more difficult decisions. My thoughts are with you and I remain hopeful you find a way forward again.
steve
Once we get the results of the test I'm getting done today (about a week or two) it'll be time for a brainstorm session with the onc. To date, I've only been getting PET scans once a year, and since I've been reading on this board it's been obvious that two or four times a year is more inline for proper analysis, so that's something I'll talk with the onc about as well. I'm going to press him for more aggressive treatment, regardless of the side effects.
As I've said elsewhere, I can live with throwing up, diarrhea, hair loss etc, what I can't live with is being dead. Chemo brain really is the worst of the side effects and I feel pretty intellectually challenged for 4 - 5 days after treatment begins. Pretty much, almost half of the time is a blur where I don't remember much of what has happened. This past week (so far) hasn't been as bad as I feared it would. But then, I started it by helping a friend think out a problem she was having and then getting into a humorous discussion of The Cat in the Hat and ending with wondering why Daffy Duck walks around naked but still wears a towel around his waist when he leaves the shower. Just like exercise helps the body get through the fatigue, so thinking (even silly stuff) helps with the chemo brain.0 -
Treats and goodiesdanker said:Doc-Hawk
One of my oncology nurses said " Be good to yourself," It applies to you too Doc
That is good advice, Dan. One of those bon mots that I tend to give out to others but rarely indulge in for myself. I just need to find a dive buddy and some riding partners!0 -
Hey Ray,Doc_Hawk said:treatment and side effects
Once we get the results of the test I'm getting done today (about a week or two) it'll be time for a brainstorm session with the onc. To date, I've only been getting PET scans once a year, and since I've been reading on this board it's been obvious that two or four times a year is more inline for proper analysis, so that's something I'll talk with the onc about as well. I'm going to press him for more aggressive treatment, regardless of the side effects.
As I've said elsewhere, I can live with throwing up, diarrhea, hair loss etc, what I can't live with is being dead. Chemo brain really is the worst of the side effects and I feel pretty intellectually challenged for 4 - 5 days after treatment begins. Pretty much, almost half of the time is a blur where I don't remember much of what has happened. This past week (so far) hasn't been as bad as I feared it would. But then, I started it by helping a friend think out a problem she was having and then getting into a humorous discussion of The Cat in the Hat and ending with wondering why Daffy Duck walks around naked but still wears a towel around his waist when he leaves the shower. Just like exercise helps the body get through the fatigue, so thinking (even silly stuff) helps with the chemo brain.
I am sorry you have
Hey Ray,
I am sorry you have received this bummer news.. but I know if anyone can find the silver lining in all this it will be you..
If you need to talk ... call me.
I wish I had some piece of wisdom to offer you that hasn't already been posted in this string, but hope you know I am prayng for you...
Donna0 -
Bump!dmj101 said:Hey Ray,
I am sorry you have
Hey Ray,
I am sorry you have received this bummer news.. but I know if anyone can find the silver lining in all this it will be you..
If you need to talk ... call me.
I wish I had some piece of wisdom to offer you that hasn't already been posted in this string, but hope you know I am prayng for you...
Donna
Hey Donna,
While it was disconcerting to find out that it had jumped nearly 100 points, at least it wasn't something sudden and with no treatment options. I'm looking at this as a speed bump and not much more. When compared with losing Cheryl, or what Steve, Jennie and others are dealing with, it really isn't much at all. I'm positive that the OnDose test I had yesterday will show that we can jack up my dosage of 5-FU and in light of the last PET scan, I may now be eligible for liver surgery. I'm getting a colonoscopy on Tuesday and confident that it will show no tumors.
I still have your number and will call in a day or so. Still need to recover a bit more from this last bout of chemo.
Hugs to you and to all!
Doc0 -
Hang Ink44454445 said:sorry to hear this . will
sorry to hear this . will pray for you
judy
I have to tell you that I really admire your attitude. I am praying the latest CEA rise can be explained by other things...keep us posted. At the end of our lives if we could just have back all the time we spent waiting for test results, we would do well!
Hugs,
Carhleen Mary0 -
Tests tests and more testsCathleen Mary said:Hang In
I have to tell you that I really admire your attitude. I am praying the latest CEA rise can be explained by other things...keep us posted. At the end of our lives if we could just have back all the time we spent waiting for test results, we would do well!
Hugs,
Carhleen Mary
I gotta confess that the most anxiety I ever had waiting on test results was the last time I took the GRE! The first time wasn't so bad because it was on paper. But the last time, it was computer and if you got a question right the next one was exponentially harder.0 -
markers smarkers, they simply suck
For some they just go up like our age.
Regardless of cea just enjoy today. I am. I hope you do too.
Hugs,
Pete0 -
cea numbersJohn23 said:Doc_Hawk -
If you take some time and read an old post of mine, you might find
yourself feeling a bit better!
The thread is here: http://csn.cancer.org/node/201101
Please pay particular attention to the last link I had provided, it tells
more about CEA results than you might have imagined!
Be well!
John
I dont know much about this but my husbands numbers starting out were 727 after one treatment they went down to 524 is this good or should they have went down more? any response would be a great help. thank you0 -
Hi KMKMORROW27 said:cea numbers
I dont know much about this but my husbands numbers starting out were 727 after one treatment they went down to 524 is this good or should they have went down more? any response would be a great help. thank you
The CEA is the number of nanograms per milliliter in the bloodstream of a protein that is produced by the cancer. For some it's just a number that doesn't indicate very much. They've had a very low count (anything under 3 is considered normal) and still had tumors progress. My CEA has always been a very good indicator of what was going on with my cancer. That your husbands took a large drop is pretty good, it shows a response to his treatment. Sometimes there can be a sudden increase, but this can be a false high caused by dead cancer cells working their way out of the system so the onc will look for three or more consecutive high readings.
Welcome to the board, this is a great place to get information as well as to open up to others.
Doc/Ray0
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