Modified Citrus Pectin

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Comments

  • GaryinUK
    GaryinUK Member Posts: 62

    Bring it to the Top - MCP
    Just thought it a good idea to bring this post back to the Top re MCP (Modified Citrus Pectin)

    You can buy it online through discount Supplement sites. I get mine from the US online and they ship to my door over here in China.

    I take 1 heaped teaspoon every day on my health shake which I pour over cereal + fruit. Easy.

    Best to all Scam

    Question
    Scam

    I am in the UK, I can see MCP for sale on Amazon but when i looked at the contents of the bottle only a small proportion was actually pectin, most of the rest being sodium or pottassium, is that what your stuff consists of or is it pure?

    Anyone chip in here

    Gary
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    Graci
    John and I both know the difference between Homeopathy and Naturopathy.

    Honestly, I have no idea what John is on about.

    On the dosing, it is quoted in the study that "high-dose modified citrus pectin (1.6 mg/ml) on a daily basis"

    1.6mg is the solid pectin to ml of liquid.

    So each mouse is getting 1.6mg of solid pectin.

    A mouse weighs 25 grams
    150lbs is 68,0000 grams

    The factor should be something like 2720

    From there everything gets foggy. 2720ml is 92oz of liquid.

    One thing for sure, I was not, and am not, making a judgement of the value of modified pectin. I sometimes like math problems, and the conversion is kind of a challenge.

    Anyone want to check my math?
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    GaryinUK said:

    Question
    Scam

    I am in the UK, I can see MCP for sale on Amazon but when i looked at the contents of the bottle only a small proportion was actually pectin, most of the rest being sodium or pottassium, is that what your stuff consists of or is it pure?

    Anyone chip in here

    Gary

    yes you are correct, mine is the same
    hi gary,

    good question, never read the packet before.
    mine is a naturopath only brand.
    I presume its the best she knows about as she is focused on my bowel cancer.
    this stuff tastes horrid, but if it tastes bad it must kill those little micro mets ? hey
    only joking, we cannot take our supplements or this whole battle to seriously.
    its only our lives on the line. and thats the key I think.
    I have my my pectin straight but today I am up early and wuill have it in juice.

    cheers,
    Pete


    http://www.bioceuticals.com.au/product.aspx?function=displayproduct&productid=269

    BioPectin 250g powder


    Price Not Available Please Login

    Stock: > 100

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10




    Email This Page


    Print This Page


    Leave A Comment


    250g

    AUSTL: N/A





    BioPectin contains hydrolysed pectin derived from citrus fruits. Pectin is a natural source of fibre.

    Each Serving (5g) Contains:*
    Energy
    41.1kJ (9.85Cal)

    Protein
    245mg

    Fat - total
    0g

    - saturated
    0g

    Carbohydrate - total
    1.5g

    - sugars
    1.5g

    Dietary fibre
    2.85g

    Sodium
    70mg

    Calcium
    5mg

    Hydrolysed citrus pectin
    5g


    * Based on average amounts.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    hi graci
    good morning graci,

    loved your reply.

    just fyi
    my bio pecin says to sprinkle on cereal or add to juice.

    I'll add it to my juice.

    what a wonderful post that highlights the benefits of vegetable based lifsytle.
    now maybe I can have my organic bacon once per week and some pectin each day.

    hugs,

    Pete
  • TxKayaker
    TxKayaker Member Posts: 176
    Buckwirth said:

    Graci
    John and I both know the difference between Homeopathy and Naturopathy.

    Honestly, I have no idea what John is on about.

    On the dosing, it is quoted in the study that "high-dose modified citrus pectin (1.6 mg/ml) on a daily basis"

    1.6mg is the solid pectin to ml of liquid.

    So each mouse is getting 1.6mg of solid pectin.

    A mouse weighs 25 grams
    150lbs is 68,0000 grams

    The factor should be something like 2720

    From there everything gets foggy. 2720ml is 92oz of liquid.

    One thing for sure, I was not, and am not, making a judgement of the value of modified pectin. I sometimes like math problems, and the conversion is kind of a challenge.

    Anyone want to check my math?

    I would think it is about
    I would think it is about 4.352 grams (solid) for a 150# man or 4,352 mg if your assumptions are correct.
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    John23 said:

    Blake -
    There had been a time in my life that I was as cynical as you!
    Now not as much so, but I still habitually question everything,
    and always look for what "makes sense" in claims made.

    Sometimes though, things may not "make sense", but still be
    as valid as anything that's been "scientifically proven".

    I haven't formed an opinion of "modified citrus pectin", not that
    my personal opinion should matter...... however...

    I'm sure you've heard about Homeopathic medicine?

    The compounds are so diluted, that there isn't a trace of the
    original ingredient after the dilution process. There is absolutely
    no "scientific data" that would indicate that any homeopathic
    substance can possibly be of value biologically.

    Homeopathic compounds have been described by the well educated,
    as being nothing more than a placebo! That concept makes sense,
    and is quite believable, isn't it.

    What can't be explained away scientifically or biologically, is that
    homeopathic compounds work quite well when used to resolve
    an animal's health problem! What does an animal know about
    psychosomatic conditions? How can the compounds resolve
    an animal's health problem, when a "placebo" is tried and does
    not work, while the homeopathic compound does?

    Homeopathic medicine continues to be used, and continues
    to resolve many human health problems, and does so without
    any "logical" explanation, and without being supported by any
    scientific study.

    MCP (modified citrus pectin), and/or any other alternative can
    be denounced away by using any "scientific" means, just as
    homeopathic medicine has been, but just who is being helped
    by those doing the denouncing?

    The first rule of the Hippocratic oath, is to: "Do No Harm".

    How closely do modern-day physicians follow that important
    rule, when they pump carcinogenic, toxic compounds into
    an already sick body?

    Does -that- make sense? Or should we only trust what can
    be "proven with scientific study" and "clinical trials"?

    I prefer Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), since it's been
    used for four thousand years, and has served billions upon
    billions of people for that entire time and continues to be used
    successfully.

    And like you, I never put too much faith into things that "don't
    make sense" while serving the financial gain of some entity.

    The herbs I had used, cost an average of $5 per pound. I used
    eight different herbs, with one pound lasting at least one month,
    while one pound of the herbs would last up to three months.

    The cost of MCP is apparently an awful lot more than any
    imported medicinal strenght herb I've used, but neither is "approved"
    by our medical industry. That does not mean it doesn't work,
    or can't be beneficial to someone taking it.

    I dislike the "profit-grabbing" atmosphere surrounding MCP,
    and have always been skeptical of such things that appear
    to be dollar driven. Most people likely feel the same way,
    yet trust the multi-trillion dollar cancer industry and their
    chemical compounds that are promoted as "the only way"
    to fight cancer.

    There are many ways to better health, but choosing a route
    that causes harm, simply does not make any sense, regardless
    of any "study" otherwise.

    Best of health to you!

    John

    do no harm
    Hi John and Blake,

    I hope you guys are enjoying your day. what an interesting discussions we all have.

    I like the controversy, becuase it implies we are all still here discussung and well enough to type.

    John thanks for rasing the "placebo effect" and the "do no harm" , reading this post raised my spirits. Again MCP is an alternative I have been trying and now had some studies behind it.

    Yes modern science based medicine denies many the "placebo effect" , its acknowledged in clinical trials and is often almost as effective as the expensive modern drugs being developed.

    1000's of drug trials have proved the placebo effect, why deny it to the masses.

    In our quest for science based trials and answers don't rip let the faith and hope side of the placebo effect be lost. Just think about it.

    In my hope and faith based approach to life and cancer treatment, my approach is leap first and ask questions later.

    The answer to my survival is the "leap", the leap of faith is what I am refering to.

    We are surviving as a community right now!!! this forum is immensley positive.

    Real faith in our survival may unlock many bowel cancer patients immune systems.

    I need to meditate more and give my scientific mind a rest and let my subconscious mind have a chance to do what it can. My brain is amazingly powerful and is not fully engaged in my recovery. I suspedt your brains are even more powerful.

    just a different perspective, based on "the biology of belief" I have almost finished reading.

    hugs,
    pete
  • do no harm
    Hi John and Blake,

    I hope you guys are enjoying your day. what an interesting discussions we all have.

    I like the controversy, becuase it implies we are all still here discussung and well enough to type.

    John thanks for rasing the "placebo effect" and the "do no harm" , reading this post raised my spirits. Again MCP is an alternative I have been trying and now had some studies behind it.

    Yes modern science based medicine denies many the "placebo effect" , its acknowledged in clinical trials and is often almost as effective as the expensive modern drugs being developed.

    1000's of drug trials have proved the placebo effect, why deny it to the masses.

    In our quest for science based trials and answers don't rip let the faith and hope side of the placebo effect be lost. Just think about it.

    In my hope and faith based approach to life and cancer treatment, my approach is leap first and ask questions later.

    The answer to my survival is the "leap", the leap of faith is what I am refering to.

    We are surviving as a community right now!!! this forum is immensley positive.

    Real faith in our survival may unlock many bowel cancer patients immune systems.

    I need to meditate more and give my scientific mind a rest and let my subconscious mind have a chance to do what it can. My brain is amazingly powerful and is not fully engaged in my recovery. I suspedt your brains are even more powerful.

    just a different perspective, based on "the biology of belief" I have almost finished reading.

    hugs,
    pete

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    janie1 said:

    citrus pectin
    Thanks to all who have weighed in. I appreciate both sides. While we all would love a magic bullet, we have to make our own decisions. Particularly I have to take into consideration (for my own take on this) the comments of Tina, and Lisa. Keep the research articles coming..... and for others sharing their experiences and knowledge. We do need to know as much as possible. One day things will be more clear-cut.
    I, too, will look forward to questions to ask a naturopath. Just soaking in as much as possible. I'm sitting here with my to-go pump. Only on second time with Folfox-Avastin regimen for Stage4. I like to walk a lot to keep the circulation going. Not tired, appetite maybe a little too good. Thanks to all. janie

    hi janie1
    If you like to walk alot , join the walking post.
    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    hi graci
    sorry but no other info,

    its just whats on the plastic container.
    they suggest straight with water, juice or cereal.
    see the link and the serviving suggestions.


    hugs
  • Buckwirth
    Buckwirth Member Posts: 1,258 Member
    TxKayaker said:

    I would think it is about
    I would think it is about 4.352 grams (solid) for a 150# man or 4,352 mg if your assumptions are correct.

    Thanks!
    So, my original math was wrong. (I blame insomnia and lack of the proper tools)

    It is about 0.15oz per day for a human.

    Thanks Tx!
  • GaryinUK
    GaryinUK Member Posts: 62

    yes you are correct, mine is the same
    hi gary,

    good question, never read the packet before.
    mine is a naturopath only brand.
    I presume its the best she knows about as she is focused on my bowel cancer.
    this stuff tastes horrid, but if it tastes bad it must kill those little micro mets ? hey
    only joking, we cannot take our supplements or this whole battle to seriously.
    its only our lives on the line. and thats the key I think.
    I have my my pectin straight but today I am up early and wuill have it in juice.

    cheers,
    Pete


    http://www.bioceuticals.com.au/product.aspx?function=displayproduct&productid=269

    BioPectin 250g powder


    Price Not Available Please Login

    Stock: > 100

    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10




    Email This Page


    Print This Page


    Leave A Comment


    250g

    AUSTL: N/A





    BioPectin contains hydrolysed pectin derived from citrus fruits. Pectin is a natural source of fibre.

    Each Serving (5g) Contains:*
    Energy
    41.1kJ (9.85Cal)

    Protein
    245mg

    Fat - total
    0g

    - saturated
    0g

    Carbohydrate - total
    1.5g

    - sugars
    1.5g

    Dietary fibre
    2.85g

    Sodium
    70mg

    Calcium
    5mg

    Hydrolysed citrus pectin
    5g


    * Based on average amounts.

    Thanks
    Pete

    Thanks, that matches what is on the label of the brand we are purchasing

    Gary
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    I am starting on it
    I will also be ordering and starting on the modified citrus pectin this week.
    Interesting thought about mentioning lab mice in the study... my naturopath said that lab rats and lab mice are injected with something that contains nickel to create the tumors in them so they can be tested for various cancer remedies.
    When I was tested for heavy metals, I was found to have a high amount of nickel in me (along with platinum and another that I can't remember at the moment- no lead or mercury showed up in me, thank goodness). But my ND said that to point out that nickel is a known cancer causing agent and how important it is for me to detox and get it out of my system. He told me he believes that any successes with my current treatment won't be lasting as long as the nickel, along with other toxins and pesticides, continue to remain in my body. I will be doing a major detox for this in a couple of weeks (mentioned in detail on another thread).

    Lisa
  • scouty
    scouty Member Posts: 1,965 Member
    lisa42 said:

    I am starting on it
    I will also be ordering and starting on the modified citrus pectin this week.
    Interesting thought about mentioning lab mice in the study... my naturopath said that lab rats and lab mice are injected with something that contains nickel to create the tumors in them so they can be tested for various cancer remedies.
    When I was tested for heavy metals, I was found to have a high amount of nickel in me (along with platinum and another that I can't remember at the moment- no lead or mercury showed up in me, thank goodness). But my ND said that to point out that nickel is a known cancer causing agent and how important it is for me to detox and get it out of my system. He told me he believes that any successes with my current treatment won't be lasting as long as the nickel, along with other toxins and pesticides, continue to remain in my body. I will be doing a major detox for this in a couple of weeks (mentioned in detail on another thread).

    Lisa

    Nickel!!!
    My first hair analysis showed mine was pretty high too and it was the only thing that was. A year later after all the detoxing adn cleansing, it was almost back to normal. I've never figured out where it came from. Did you ND have any idea where we get it?

    Very interesting and I'm glad to hear you are starting MCP.

    Lisa P.
  • lisa42
    lisa42 Member Posts: 3,625 Member
    scouty said:

    Nickel!!!
    My first hair analysis showed mine was pretty high too and it was the only thing that was. A year later after all the detoxing adn cleansing, it was almost back to normal. I've never figured out where it came from. Did you ND have any idea where we get it?

    Very interesting and I'm glad to hear you are starting MCP.

    Lisa P.

    Scouty re. nickel
    No, I don't know exactly where the nickel came from, but my ND has his ideas. He said the metal used for most braces (which I had as a teen, as many of us have) has nickel in it (or at least it did then- don't know if anything has changed). Also, nickel can be found in some foods. Another obvious source is wearing cheap jewelry that has nickel in it. I have always worn cheap earring in addition to my nicer ones since I never was someone who would get infections from the cheap earrings. Interestingly, I am much less tolerable of cheap earrings in recent years- can't wear them more than a day without the earring hole getting all sore. So, I guess I shouldn't and won't anymore!

    Other Lisa :)
  • PGLGreg
    PGLGreg Member Posts: 731
    John23 said:

    Blake -
    There had been a time in my life that I was as cynical as you!
    Now not as much so, but I still habitually question everything,
    and always look for what "makes sense" in claims made.

    Sometimes though, things may not "make sense", but still be
    as valid as anything that's been "scientifically proven".

    I haven't formed an opinion of "modified citrus pectin", not that
    my personal opinion should matter...... however...

    I'm sure you've heard about Homeopathic medicine?

    The compounds are so diluted, that there isn't a trace of the
    original ingredient after the dilution process. There is absolutely
    no "scientific data" that would indicate that any homeopathic
    substance can possibly be of value biologically.

    Homeopathic compounds have been described by the well educated,
    as being nothing more than a placebo! That concept makes sense,
    and is quite believable, isn't it.

    What can't be explained away scientifically or biologically, is that
    homeopathic compounds work quite well when used to resolve
    an animal's health problem! What does an animal know about
    psychosomatic conditions? How can the compounds resolve
    an animal's health problem, when a "placebo" is tried and does
    not work, while the homeopathic compound does?

    Homeopathic medicine continues to be used, and continues
    to resolve many human health problems, and does so without
    any "logical" explanation, and without being supported by any
    scientific study.

    MCP (modified citrus pectin), and/or any other alternative can
    be denounced away by using any "scientific" means, just as
    homeopathic medicine has been, but just who is being helped
    by those doing the denouncing?

    The first rule of the Hippocratic oath, is to: "Do No Harm".

    How closely do modern-day physicians follow that important
    rule, when they pump carcinogenic, toxic compounds into
    an already sick body?

    Does -that- make sense? Or should we only trust what can
    be "proven with scientific study" and "clinical trials"?

    I prefer Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), since it's been
    used for four thousand years, and has served billions upon
    billions of people for that entire time and continues to be used
    successfully.

    And like you, I never put too much faith into things that "don't
    make sense" while serving the financial gain of some entity.

    The herbs I had used, cost an average of $5 per pound. I used
    eight different herbs, with one pound lasting at least one month,
    while one pound of the herbs would last up to three months.

    The cost of MCP is apparently an awful lot more than any
    imported medicinal strenght herb I've used, but neither is "approved"
    by our medical industry. That does not mean it doesn't work,
    or can't be beneficial to someone taking it.

    I dislike the "profit-grabbing" atmosphere surrounding MCP,
    and have always been skeptical of such things that appear
    to be dollar driven. Most people likely feel the same way,
    yet trust the multi-trillion dollar cancer industry and their
    chemical compounds that are promoted as "the only way"
    to fight cancer.

    There are many ways to better health, but choosing a route
    that causes harm, simply does not make any sense, regardless
    of any "study" otherwise.

    Best of health to you!

    John

    truth versus reason
    John writes: "Sometimes though, things may not "make sense", but still be
    as valid as anything that's been "scientifically proven"."

    I agree, and would like to point out that it works the other way, too: things may make sense, but not be proven, or even be provable. I see this as the difference between medieval philosophy and modern science. To the schoolmen of older times, the way to the truth was reasoning about discoverable facts. That's gone out of fashion. In the present discussion, it's a very pretty theory that MCP may act on cells in such a way that our immune system can better discover cancer cells. There seems to be some evidence for this, and it "makes sense", but is it true that MCP will have any beneficial effect in curing or preventing cancer?

    In modern conventional "evidenced based" medicine, as I understand it, the answer is: not necessarily. We will need to show, not just that MCP makes sense as a cancer therapy, but that it's actually true that it works as a cancer therapy (or preventative). And we should keep open the possibility that a remedy for cancer might work, even though it seems to make no sense.

    --Greg
  • scouty
    scouty Member Posts: 1,965 Member
    lisa42 said:

    Scouty re. nickel
    No, I don't know exactly where the nickel came from, but my ND has his ideas. He said the metal used for most braces (which I had as a teen, as many of us have) has nickel in it (or at least it did then- don't know if anything has changed). Also, nickel can be found in some foods. Another obvious source is wearing cheap jewelry that has nickel in it. I have always worn cheap earring in addition to my nicer ones since I never was someone who would get infections from the cheap earrings. Interestingly, I am much less tolerable of cheap earrings in recent years- can't wear them more than a day without the earring hole getting all sore. So, I guess I shouldn't and won't anymore!

    Other Lisa :)

    Braces!!!
    Wow I wore mine for over 4 years due to a screw up by my doc or maybe by me. I was in college away from home working my way thru school so I couldn't/didn't go home for check ups as often as I probably should have. My overbite became an underbite and it took an additional 18 months to change the wires around to reverse that.

    Very interesting. I had so much other stuff going on back since my cancer "stuff" was improving so I never got around to asking mine. To be honest I had forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

    Thanks for that most likely answer and the good news is, you can definitly improve it with what you are doing!!!

    Thanks Other Lisa!!!
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    Buckwirth said:

    My math may be wrong
    But as I have it figured, to get the effect of the high dose pectin you would need to consume 3.8oz a day if you weigh 150lbs.



    A couple of teaspoons on your cereal in the morning ain't going to cut it.

    blake maths wrong
    blake and all,

    a couple of teaspoons is fine, possibly more effective if spread over 3 servings at 5gms per serve.

    its funny your math is wrong, i'll go with the scientists not you on this occasion. whats the result of your reply here to dissaude some from mcp. i hope not, that would be a shame.

    just read md anderson. yes again a cheap supplement with lots of potential and no downside.

    please everyone interested in mcp disregard blakes comment re maths and dosage. well intended but wrong based on my research.

    just read your packet and follow the instructions.

    Modified Citrus Pectin Detailed Scientific Review from md anderson

    about 5 seconds searching......
    link below

    the manufactures say 3 x 5gm servings, the clinical studies had 14.4 grams and then another 15 grams divided into 3 servings.

    http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/resources-for-professionals/clinical-tools-and-resources/cimer/therapies/herbal-plant-biologic-therapies/modified-citrus-pectin-scientific.html

    so blake are you going to try mcp ?
    are you seriously interested in this potentially effective natural remedy or are you did you just have nothing better to do than make negative comments about a product many of us have faith in.

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    unknown said:

    This comment has been removed by the Moderator

    warning about sprinkling on cereal
    hi graci,

    i sprinkled a teaspoon on my cereal this morning.
    got side tracked, came back to the kitchen and the bowl ws empty and my wife was about to call the cereal company and complain about the taste.

    i had to tell her she had my mcp as well as my cereal.

    she was not happy. it does taste bad, so it must be good for us.

    hugs,
    pete
  • pete43lost_at_sea
    pete43lost_at_sea Member Posts: 3,900 Member
    PGLGreg said:

    truth versus reason
    John writes: "Sometimes though, things may not "make sense", but still be
    as valid as anything that's been "scientifically proven"."

    I agree, and would like to point out that it works the other way, too: things may make sense, but not be proven, or even be provable. I see this as the difference between medieval philosophy and modern science. To the schoolmen of older times, the way to the truth was reasoning about discoverable facts. That's gone out of fashion. In the present discussion, it's a very pretty theory that MCP may act on cells in such a way that our immune system can better discover cancer cells. There seems to be some evidence for this, and it "makes sense", but is it true that MCP will have any beneficial effect in curing or preventing cancer?

    In modern conventional "evidenced based" medicine, as I understand it, the answer is: not necessarily. We will need to show, not just that MCP makes sense as a cancer therapy, but that it's actually true that it works as a cancer therapy (or preventative). And we should keep open the possibility that a remedy for cancer might work, even though it seems to make no sense.

    --Greg

    is it true that MCP will have any beneficial effect in curing ?
    greg,

    based on md anderson summary i say yes.
    the evidence is all based on stats these days.
    not enough profit in mcp to fund double blind clinical trial.
    the onc don't care as its a food and no script needed.

    even chemo drugs we have to suck it and see, lets try this,
    ok now lets try that approach.

    worsed case its cheap placebo benefit, best case it saves a few lives.
    it could be the magic cure we dream about, and its at our finger tips and cheap.

    pete
  • MLR68
    MLR68 Member Posts: 3
    edited August 2020 #61
    Good Research on Pectasol - C

    NEWER INFORMATION:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvuzthsqMI&feature=emb_title

    This thread is old - but if I checked it out - others may also.

    Hubby just finidhed radiation therapy for advanced Prostate Cancer (confined to prostate) and we decided to give this product a try. It is not cheap. We buy this particular brand because it was used in the studies. We mix it ahead of time in juice or gater aid - use a shaker bottle. Helps to dissolve it to mix well ahead of time - 24 hours. He takes 5 mg three times a day. Causes a bit of intestinal distress but is alleviated by 1/2 dose of anti diahhrea medication each morning. We are hopeful that it will help. He has taken it for one month and no ill effects other than some loose stools. Wish I had seen this info in time to add it to his regimen during radiation therapy. Supposedly it 'enhances' radiation therapy. Hubby is faithful about taking it 3x daily. We buy on Amazon subscribe and save - Saves about $10 monthly. But it is still expensive. We will use as long as we can afford it. Hoping price doesn't increase. Hope this info helps others. No guarantees - but we feel it is worth a try.