Question re Cancer Becoming Immune to Chemo

JanJan63

I should have asked my onc yesterday but I forgot. I know some people's cancer becomes immune to the chemo that's been working for them but I don't know the numbers. Does that usually happen, commonly? Is it sometimes? Rarely? I'm not good at looking up information for some reason but I know some of you on here are great at it. Please share with us what the numbers are.

Thank you!

Jan

beaumontdave

Not my forte, either

I've looked at a dozen blogs and forums and can't find any definitive time frames or measured studies on chemo immunity development, but I don't doubt that the better investigators here could pull up an answer.............................................Dave

Vette04

Found this

Jan, I found this and it does seem to suggest that the cancer will mutate/evolve to avoid desctruction and more personalized treatments would be necessary to acheive the desired results.  Just to be clear, I'm not a medical professional I just tried to summarize this long paper, that I only read part of, into one sentence.

Below is the link to the site and I copied and pasted the papers conclusion below that.

Mark

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699262/

This review demonstrates that much is known about resistance to cytotoxic and targeted therapies in the treatment of CRC, though clearly more needs to be discovered. The goal of elucidating mechanisms of resistance is to develop methods to overcome the resistance to advance our fight against this disease and achieve better, more durable treatment responses and longer patient survival. With so many potential targets for therapy, personalized treatments with existing drugs would be expected to show improved results. Early trials of personalized therapy based on mutation status of KRAS, BRAF, PI3KCA, and expression of Topo-I, ERCC1, TS, and TP did not show any improvement in PFS [Cubillo et al. 2014]. However, some authors have proposed using KRAS, BRAF, PI3KCA, and PTEN mutation status as a signature to guide therapy [Bardelli and Siena, 2010; Sartore-Bianchi et al. 2009]. Other clinical trials involving personalized therapies for CRC based on more comprehensive genomic and molecular profiling are underway. Certainly, in this era of more targeted therapies and much improved capabilities in genomic and molecular profiling, much is left to discover about the effects that these targeted therapies have on the intricate web of signaling and activities both intracellularly and in the tumor microenvironment. Ultimately, new discoveries will continue to translate into improved treatment options and important clinical outcomes for patients.

JanJan63

Thanks Vette! It says that my

Thanks Vette! It says that my chemo, according to the studies they've done so far, show only a 1% chance of the mets developing resistance to. That's promising and makes me feel much better. Great article! Very informative and detailed. I knew someone else would do a far better job than I could! Sorry you're like me, Dave.

Jan

NewHere

About A Year

My cancer is back and inoperable.  Trying everything to avoid going back on chemo, so using TCM, exercise, herbs (though I will not turn down chemo when the time comes). 

Anyway, my oncologist will put me on FOLFORI this time and in general finds that FOLFORI (and other treatments) will work for a year before the chemo stops working.  Of course there are many who go longer on treatments. 

PamRav

For new here

how’s the TCM going?   Do you feel ok on it?  How did you find a practitioner?

Worriedchild

NewHere said:

About A Year

My cancer is back and inoperable.  Trying everything to avoid going back on chemo, so using TCM, exercise, herbs (though I will not turn down chemo when the time comes). 

Anyway, my oncologist will put me on FOLFORI this time and in general finds that FOLFORI (and other treatments) will work for a year before the chemo stops working.  Of course there are many who go longer on treatments. 

Tcm?

please elaborate what is TCM

Trubrit

Worriedchild said:

Tcm?

please elaborate what is TCM

TCM

Traditional Chinese Medicine

I will let New elaborate. 

Tru

JanJan63

Please be careful with TCM

Please be careful with TCM everybody. It's best used in addition to whatever conventional treatments are needed. It's not to replace them.

Jan 

tanstaafl

Vette04 said:

Found this

Jan, I found this and it does seem to suggest that the cancer will mutate/evolve to avoid desctruction and more personalized treatments would be necessary to acheive the desired results.  Just to be clear, I'm not a medical professional I just tried to summarize this long paper, that I only read part of, into one sentence.

Below is the link to the site and I copied and pasted the papers conclusion below that.

Mark

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699262/

This review demonstrates that much is known about resistance to cytotoxic and targeted therapies in the treatment of CRC, though clearly more needs to be discovered. The goal of elucidating mechanisms of resistance is to develop methods to overcome the resistance to advance our fight against this disease and achieve better, more durable treatment responses and longer patient survival. With so many potential targets for therapy, personalized treatments with existing drugs would be expected to show improved results. Early trials of personalized therapy based on mutation status of KRAS, BRAF, PI3KCA, and expression of Topo-I, ERCC1, TS, and TP did not show any improvement in PFS [Cubillo et al. 2014]. However, some authors have proposed using KRAS, BRAF, PI3KCA, and PTEN mutation status as a signature to guide therapy [Bardelli and Siena, 2010; Sartore-Bianchi et al. 2009]. Other clinical trials involving personalized therapies for CRC based on more comprehensive genomic and molecular profiling are underway. Certainly, in this era of more targeted therapies and much improved capabilities in genomic and molecular profiling, much is left to discover about the effects that these targeted therapies have on the intricate web of signaling and activities both intracellularly and in the tumor microenvironment. Ultimately, new discoveries will continue to translate into improved treatment options and important clinical outcomes for patients.

better living thru chemistry

You might be aware that these mutations have pathways also modulated by various off label drugs, hopefully some mild generic ones, and natural/nutritional molecules.   The most discussed off label drugs are cimetidine, celecoxib and aspirin.   Life Extension Foundation has  number of cancer articles that provide a starting point for both off label drugs and supplements.  However, even stronger, more specialized uses of supplements may comfortably provide more aid to treatment responses than LEF's basics.  The truth is that many tools for personalized treatments have been partially documented for 10-20 years now, but are ignored orphans. 

The only oncology drug we buy is a generic fluoropyramidine (5FU type drug): tegafur DPD inhibited by uracil, originally branded UFT, sold overseas long before Xeloda.  In some common, specific situations, the off label drugs outperformed "heavy chemo" in human studies with fewer side effects. Powerful supplements offer immunochemo benefits too, where they can often reduce side effects also, when skillfully used. 

Inexpensive blood tests are clues to these underlying processes and provide measurements of various aspects (of improvement or otherwise), as well just detection of the cancer.  So we buy more clues, sort of life's game show.   

tanstaafl

low tech "next gen"

Jan, more important to us has been identifying resistance early on, in progress, and then finding nicer means to suppress deviations earlier. 

Stats on obsolete treatments can be misleading and depressing.  They don't help as much as timely personal monitoring with generic tests and  and treatment with generic molecules carefully selected.  For example, one version of 5FU tx alone, by one measure, had times to resistance of 6 mo to 12 months max.   Since  then oxi-, iri-, Avastin have several generations of techniques that extend 5FU's range substantially.   But use of the off label stuff added many more years for mCRC patients with less side effects when they measurably overcome resistance.   

Also "CEA only" gets a lot of people blindsided, because mutations and cancer changes often are relected in other markers.

tishy

platinum resistant?

my sister got chemo first cycle of carboplatin etoposide and got sick.  Now recovered, the oncologist says her tumors

(spread) of her liver despite the one cyle...and he is claiming she is platinum resistant.  Now he will do nothing more!

Does anyone know is this the way to claim she is resistant?  I cannot find anything to verify this is correct, but it does not seem so...

JanJan63

tishy said:

platinum resistant?

my sister got chemo first cycle of carboplatin etoposide and got sick.  Now recovered, the oncologist says her tumors

(spread) of her liver despite the one cyle...and he is claiming she is platinum resistant.  Now he will do nothing more!

Does anyone know is this the way to claim she is resistant?  I cannot find anything to verify this is correct, but it does not seem so...

There are more chemos than

There are more chemos than just ones that have platinum in them. I can't take the oxylaplatin because it gave me blood clots. There are a number of other options, though. Maybe she needs a new oncologist.

Jan

Joan M

tishy said:

platinum resistant?

my sister got chemo first cycle of carboplatin etoposide and got sick.  Now recovered, the oncologist says her tumors

(spread) of her liver despite the one cyle...and he is claiming she is platinum resistant.  Now he will do nothing more!

Does anyone know is this the way to claim she is resistant?  I cannot find anything to verify this is correct, but it does not seem so...

She should get a 2nd opinion

My oncologist told me there are many different drugs to treat cancer.  If one stops working, they try the next one.  

Hope she goes to a doctor who can help her.