Second Opinion Confirms Things - It Is Back & Inoperable - Not Happy :(
Comments
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better chemo forever
Have you considered increasing your vitamin dosage, along with daily Xeloda and celecoxib ? A good combination should avoid side effects, reduce markers, and kill cancer cells over time by various paths. 5FU doesn't work well for us until enough ingredients are added to the mix. Also this gives us better control of things, even able to dodge shortages for a (long) while.
We find some of the markers don't recede until truly higher (but still comfortable) doses are reached. e.g. 50 - 90 grams of IV vitamin C is much better (one marker falls rapidly) than 30 grams (same marker rising slowly). This approach also seems to be a potential inhibition/immune factor for D3, K2, coQ10 perhaps a number of other nutrients. NIH authored PNAS papers say IV vitamin C levels are particularly a factor in KRAS/BRAF mutant inhibition.
Likewise, cancer surprises suggest that you weren't adequately monitored, even if they followed NCCN standards. Standard medicine often seems to be technically obsolete or stunted medicine. We use CA19-9, AFP, ALP (already common data) and LDH in addition to CEA, along with MCV (it's alreading your CBC), ESR, hsCRP, HgbA1C for support work. We would have been knocked out of the war long ago if we settled for "standard".
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>>>>Have you considered
>>>>Have you considered increasing your vitamin dosage, along with daily Xeloda and celecoxib ? A good combination should avoid side effects, reduce markers, and kill cancer cells over time by various paths. 5FU doesn't work well for us until enough ingredients are added to the mix. Also this gives us better control of things, even able to dodge shortages for a (long) while.
Doing that. Dosing Vitamins, taking herbs. Chemo will not work forever for me when I start, that is the issue
>>>We find some of the markers don't recede until truly higher (but still comfortable) doses are reached. e.g. 50 - 90 grams of IV vitamin C is much better (one marker falls rapidly)
Taking 3,000 MG Vitamin C a day, 10,000 D. Various TCM.
>>> Likewise, cancer surprises suggest that you weren't adequately monitored, even if they followed NCCN standards. Standard medicine often seems to be technically obsolete or stunted medicine. We use CA19-9, AFP, ALP (already common data) and LDH in addition to CEA, along with MCV (it's alreading your CBC), ESR, hsCRP, HgbA1C for support work. We would have been knocked out of the war long ago if we settled for "standard".
I have been going to various places looking for things and tests. Where to go for that? I will. Keep on asking for more tests and genomic testing as much as possible.
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Yes, it is difficult to findNewHere said:>>>>Have you considered
>>>>Have you considered increasing your vitamin dosage, along with daily Xeloda and celecoxib ? A good combination should avoid side effects, reduce markers, and kill cancer cells over time by various paths. 5FU doesn't work well for us until enough ingredients are added to the mix. Also this gives us better control of things, even able to dodge shortages for a (long) while.
Doing that. Dosing Vitamins, taking herbs. Chemo will not work forever for me when I start, that is the issue
>>>We find some of the markers don't recede until truly higher (but still comfortable) doses are reached. e.g. 50 - 90 grams of IV vitamin C is much better (one marker falls rapidly)
Taking 3,000 MG Vitamin C a day, 10,000 D. Various TCM.
>>> Likewise, cancer surprises suggest that you weren't adequately monitored, even if they followed NCCN standards. Standard medicine often seems to be technically obsolete or stunted medicine. We use CA19-9, AFP, ALP (already common data) and LDH in addition to CEA, along with MCV (it's alreading your CBC), ESR, hsCRP, HgbA1C for support work. We would have been knocked out of the war long ago if we settled for "standard".
I have been going to various places looking for things and tests. Where to go for that? I will. Keep on asking for more tests and genomic testing as much as possible.
Yes, it is difficult to find one stop answers, so a lot of things become self responsibility, cumulative and shared info. The adjuncts' (chemo and CAM) impact on the cancer and markers is additive when used successfully. The problem most people have is getting a strong enough total treatment to visibly dent their markers without damaging their bodies. Damage is mostly on the prescription drugs and chemo sides, but in some cases, with the nonstandard stuff is possible. Again, we've used much higher doses of several vitamins with expert advice, along with a supplemental list similar to Life Extension's list in 2010. Higher doses in concert, this is not driven by dogma but data.
Most people don't get enough quality blood data to see small improvements, or small fixable problems. Important data series are often not soon or long enough. Lots of small improvements can add up to more than a "big treatment" (e.g Folfox/Folfiri)
"...tests Where do I go for that?"
We've used either local or national phone numbers to arrange blood tests ourselves. e.g. I've used the 800 number for Life Extension which has annual sales on blood tests in the spring, as well as a local lab. I prefer to use one lab for consistency as much as possible. It's easier than bending dr's fingers since they often pay more attention to insurance, Medicare, NCCN etc even if you pay cash.
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Thanks tanstaafl
Went to the site. Right now onl site and searched
Came up with 80 of them.
Which one is it? Will order and get it drawn. And probably be back asking you more quetions. 
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Be careful
I've read that chemo doesn't last forever since cancer can mutate and then the chemo becomes ineffective. However, there is a strong chance it could take it out before it has an opportunity to mutate. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Call me a proponent of oncologists but I believe they've got the training and so forth which I don't. It's fine to do the other things provided the doctors agree with it but don't ignore what they're tellling you to do. Granted, being on chemo is beyond horrible in many respects but most times it works which is why they do it.
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Cancer can mutate (funny todarcher said:Be careful
I've read that chemo doesn't last forever since cancer can mutate and then the chemo becomes ineffective. However, there is a strong chance it could take it out before it has an opportunity to mutate. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Call me a proponent of oncologists but I believe they've got the training and so forth which I don't. It's fine to do the other things provided the doctors agree with it but don't ignore what they're tellling you to do. Granted, being on chemo is beyond horrible in many respects but most times it works which is why they do it.
Cancer can mutate (funny to say that because cancer is mutations) so it is a valid concern. My friend with Lung Cancer took a drug which worked for twelve months and then it stopped working but his oncologist expected this as it has happened before and they had a second drug ready to go which takes care of the first cancer and the second. The oncologists feed information back to the drug companies and the drug companies come up with drugs and hopefully they've had lots of practice for whatever our cancers mutate into. Or if they don't, then we become the test subjects to develop new drugs for future patients.
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I am so sorryNewHere said:Thanks tanstaafl
Went to the site. Right now onl site and searched
Came up with 80 of them.
Which one is it? Will order and get it drawn. And probably be back asking you more quetions. I hope it's so slow growing it never gets to give you a problem!
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No Doubt Darcherdarcher said:Be careful
I've read that chemo doesn't last forever since cancer can mutate and then the chemo becomes ineffective. However, there is a strong chance it could take it out before it has an opportunity to mutate. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. Call me a proponent of oncologists but I believe they've got the training and so forth which I don't. It's fine to do the other things provided the doctors agree with it but don't ignore what they're tellling you to do. Granted, being on chemo is beyond horrible in many respects but most times it works which is why they do it.
That is why I am trying to avoid chemo as long as possible. I was ready to start when I got the news and my oncologist said no, wait until symptomatic or scans show it is growing and spreading, because usually the chemo will work for about a year before becoming ineffective. Some people may have it work longer, but generally a year. So If I can kick it down the road, something else may come up. I am going on chemo when the time comes.
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It's logical what you're doing.
Cancer is a mutation so it having the ability to change makes sense. The odd thing is it's capable of doing it so quickly. That's above my paygrade to ponder so I'll leave that question to molecular biologists.
If Chemo is good for about a year that explains why they're giving me the same stuff as during the pre-op. Since it was for a month and a half and it worked quite well, so they said, then it stands to reason to keep using it with there being a good amount of time left on that clock.
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It Can Last Longerdarcher said:It's logical what you're doing.
Cancer is a mutation so it having the ability to change makes sense. The odd thing is it's capable of doing it so quickly. That's above my paygrade to ponder so I'll leave that question to molecular biologists.
If Chemo is good for about a year that explains why they're giving me the same stuff as during the pre-op. Since it was for a month and a half and it worked quite well, so they said, then it stands to reason to keep using it with there being a good amount of time left on that clock.
My oncologist siad usually a year is the number in general but other people are on the same chemo for longe periods of time, so do not worry too much about the number. Plus it may knocking it all out, you may not need the year.
At my initial surgery, the cancer was further along than the scans from even two weeks before, was into my abdominal wall and in many lymph nodes (11 out of 20). There was a met on my lung at the time of the initial diagnosis, just too small to confirm at the time. Kept in in control and had some size changes (again small) during chemo and it grew for sure went done. In other words, it was not the greatest set-up from the get go. The positive is that the chemo may have helped keep things in check for me, maybe reduce it, and perhaps some cocktail may work.
Sounds like chemo is working real well for you. You will kick cancer's a--
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I Have Not Tried ItReeRee2 said:CBD oil
Does anyone use CBD oil? I have read where It can kill cancer cells.
It is another treatment that may or may not work. There really needs to be more studies on these things, though I understand the difficulty because they can be witholding drugs that could work (this is really applicable to any treatment. Such as even being in the control/placebo group when trying new drugs. )
Some info from NIH National Cancer Institute
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq
- The main active cannabinoid in Cannabis is delta-9-THC. Another active cannabinoid is cannabidiol (CBD), which may relieve pain, lower inflammation, and decrease anxiety without causing the "high" of delta-9-THC (see Question 2).
- Cannabinoids can be taken by mouth, inhaled, or sprayed under the tongue (see Question 5).
- Cannabis and cannabinoids have been studied in the laboratory and the clinic for relief of pain, nausea and vomiting, anxiety, and loss of appetite (see Question 6 and Question 7).
- Cannabis and cannabinoids may have benefits in treating the symptoms of cancer or the side effects of cancer therapies. There is growing interest in treating children for symptoms such as nausea with Cannabis and cannabinoids, although studies are limited (see Question 7).
- Two cannabinoids (dronabinol and nabilone) are drugs approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the prevention or treatment of chemotherapy -related nausea and vomiting (see Question 7 and Question 10).
- **** Cannabis has been shown to kill cancer cells in the laboratory (see Question 6).
- At this time, there is not enough evidence to recommend that patients inhale or ingest Cannabis as a treatment for cancer-related symptoms or side effects of cancer therapy (see Question 7).
- Cannabis is not approved by the FDA for use as a cancer treatment (see Question 9).
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CBD oil
It was suggested by someone to try CBD oil for nausia and lack of apetite. Looking at the above referenced article question 6 was a surprise. Based on what's wirtten it looks to have properties similar to chemo. I can see why it would help with nausia and apetite but killing cancer itself is a new one.
- Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.
- A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.
- A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.
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Sorry man,
I’m doing Ayurvedic medicine under the guidance of Dr. Dhruva at UCSF’s integrative oncology center. It’s very similar to TCM. Maybe shoot him an email? Good luck and best wishes. I haven’t been on this site in a long time and I was sorry to see this, hang in there.
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It Is Amazing To Readdarcher said:CBD oil
It was suggested by someone to try CBD oil for nausia and lack of apetite. Looking at the above referenced article question 6 was a surprise. Based on what's wirtten it looks to have properties similar to chemo. I can see why it would help with nausia and apetite but killing cancer itself is a new one.
- Studies in mice and rats have shown that cannabinoids may inhibit tumor growth by causing cell death, blocking cell growth, and blocking the development of blood vessels needed by tumors to grow. Laboratory and animal studies have shown that cannabinoids may be able to kill cancer cells while protecting normal cells.
- A study in mice showed that cannabinoids may protect against inflammation of the colon and may have potential in reducing the risk of colon cancer, and possibly in its treatment.
- A laboratory study of delta-9-THC in hepatocellular carcinoma (liver cancer) cells showed that it damaged or killed the cancer cells. The same study of delta-9-THC in mouse models of liver cancer showed that it had antitumor effects. Delta-9-THC has been shown to cause these effects by acting on molecules that may also be found in non-small cell lung cancer cells and breast cancer cells.
How there is so much potential for CBD can kill cancer like that. They need to step up research for things like this where there is a chance to kill cancer with less other damage (would need to buy stock in Dortio's though
) Seems to be a different form than smoking pot.0 -
Integrative Oncology
I will be getting asecond opinion from an Integrative Onc this Thursday. Had a CT scan today so this is the time for me to decide how long I can put off chemo. I have been enjoying I.V. Vitamin C for a few months now. And ozone saunas. High dose Vitamin D. I took THC oil all through chemo & radiation pre surgery. Helped with appetite & pain management. I understand you have to take massive amount of THC for 90 days in order to possibly have it kill cancer. Rick Simpson and many others testify to the benefits.
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Try Mayo for Trials
Look at trials at Mayo Clinic...not sure if still open but they were accepting on an immunotherapy trial. Level 2 trial so do your research but thought I’d share. I was accepted but my doc said since I’m NED right now to wait and Stage 3 are safer? I’m a Stage 4 too..nothing left to cut out. Althoug, my last surgery...doctors here said it was pretty hopeless and I went to Mayo...they were like oh, yeah no big deal. I hope you have great doctors, surgeons ❤️ It can change everything...at least for a little while ❤️
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MSK has integrative medNewHere said:It Is Amazing To Read
How there is so much potential for CBD can kill cancer like that. They need to step up research for things like this where there is a chance to kill cancer with less other damage (would need to buy stock in Dortio's though
) Seems to be a different form than smoking pot.You might want to start with a consult there.
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THC is Needed Too / Not Just CBDReeRee2 said:CBD oil
Does anyone use CBD oil? I have read where It can kill cancer cells.
If you go that route, make sure you use THC too...a lot of people read that CBD alone works on websites...but read the actual studies themselves (it's a combo of THC and CBD, and with no human studies the needed dosage is unknown) so, rule of thumb is get as much in your body as possible, as quickly as possible. Don't count on it to save you by itself. To date, 3 friends have died taking only CBD oil...don't trust websites selling things *Charolettes Web has good oil though...and go to sites like ROC to find quality oil at a discount..I suggest making it yourself!
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