So true!

Marynb

mp327 said:

Marynb

I'm sorry to hear that.  I guess it's just hard for me to understand, considering cancer is life-threatening and divorce is most likely not.  As I could have predicted, my friend has recovered pretty well. 

Martha
Yes, cancer is life threatening, but divorce, for me, was much, much more emotionally painful, especially as a Mom. Maybe for me, watching my child suffer and see her childhood shattered by adultery and abandonment was just the worst psychic pain. That will last her lifetime. Facing cancer twice was not even close to what we went through. Really. I know divorce is now very commonplace and viewed as something you recover from nicely, but it is a death of a family and children really suffer for a long time. In a way, the view that it is an everday event makes it feel more painful. I really think that there is not enough community support for children of divorce and the parent trying to raise them alone. I can only say that for me, I have survived two cancers, but I would never survive 2 divorces!!!!! No....

One thing I have learned is that into every life, a little rain must fall. Let's just say I have had a monsoon lately! LOL. At any rate, I remain hopeful that better days are ahead!

Marynb

Cancer and relationships
Thanks for posting this article, Martha. The author hit the nail on the head. As I go forward with tests, specialists, and appointments, this time I am more realistic about what to expect from the people in my life. I am the eldest child in a big Irish family. My mother, now departed, used to chide us when we bickered, and tell us that someday we would realize what a gift we were to each other. Well, she sure was right about that one! My brothers and sisters and their spouses all took over when I was being treated with the cancers.
Friends that I thought cared, just couldn't deal with seeing me sick as I battled one cancer and then another. I was deeply disappointed in so many people. Recently, a woman who I used to call my best friend remarked how well I looked throughout my treatment. I thought for a minute and responded with the truth. I reminded her that she had never once seen me during my treatment. Not once. She lives 40 minutes away. Not a card, not a phone call, not an offer of help. Silence followed. It was the truth.

Cancer has not only taught me what matters, it taught me who matters. Family matters. Caring people matter. Thingsmdon't matter, and neither do the people who define themselves by things and status. Seems there were too many of the wrong people in my life. I have cleaned house, simplified things.

Marynb

Lorikat said:

Thanks..

This article came at a good time for me.  A friend that I used to run around with( drive to little towns to rummage in junk shops etc and try out new restaurants) stopped being my friend and at first she said nothing. Then she told her husband who told my husband, you know how it goes, that I wasnt "Dependable" when we made plans half he time I had an "excuse" not to go!  As if I had any bowel control!  I was too much trouble I guess.....  Type 4 friend for sure....

Lorikat
Lorikat, trouble is a sieve through which only real friends pass. It is true that this particular cancer leads to more social isolation because of the bathroom issues! Not sure what can be done about that.

mp327

Marynb said:

Martha
Yes, cancer is life threatening, but divorce, for me, was much, much more emotionally painful, especially as a Mom. Maybe for me, watching my child suffer and see her childhood shattered by adultery and abandonment was just the worst psychic pain. That will last her lifetime. Facing cancer twice was not even close to what we went through. Really. I know divorce is now very commonplace and viewed as something you recover from nicely, but it is a death of a family and children really suffer for a long time. In a way, the view that it is an everday event makes it feel more painful. I really think that there is not enough community support for children of divorce and the parent trying to raise them alone. I can only say that for me, I have survived two cancers, but I would never survive 2 divorces!!!!! No....

One thing I have learned is that into every life, a little rain must fall. Let's just say I have had a monsoon lately! LOL. At any rate, I remain hopeful that better days are ahead!

Marynb

That is my hope for you too!

jcruz

Marynb said:

Martha
Funny you had a friend who compared cancer to divorce. I had an absolutley horrible, gut wrenching, hideous divorce. I do have to say that going through cancer treatments....twice....paled in comparison. Really. I know it is hard to imagine anything worse than cancer....but for me too, divorce was far, far worse. Not kidding.

I'm so sorry your divorce was

I'm so sorry your divorce was so awful.  I've had friends go through really bad ones too.  I got divorced when my 28 year old daughter was still in preschool.  It was not a walk in the park but also not hideous.  I'll take that divorce 10 times over having cancer.  At least I know the divorce can't kill me and I'm not so sure yet about the cancer.

RoseC

Marynb said:

Rose
You are very kind and you have an interesting perspective. As I told my daughter, life is short, spend your time with people who can think about others. I simply don't have time for self centered people. Staying away from a sick friend because they are afraid it is contagious is beyond my comprehension. I do pray for people like that, but I don't have time for them.

Hi Marynb - I respect your

Hi Marynb - I respect your opinion, along with all others. And I oftentimes don't express myself correctly. Just wanted to clarify - I didn't mean self-centered people or people who are afraid cancer is contagious. I was talking more about people who are unable to deal with it either emotionally or physically. I had an uncle (who has since passed away) - very nice man, very compassionate, very caring - who when his aunt was aged and in a nursing home, could not cope with seeing her. It really disturbed him to see her like that. He wasn't being self-centered, he was protecting himself. We all do that (to some degree) - letting go of friends because they don't react as we think they should is, in my mind, a form of self-protection. I don't mean that it's wrong, just that there are many reasons why people do or don't do something, and it's not always clear either to us or even to them what those motivations are. Truly self-centered people? Yeah, not in my vocabulary either (although I once was one - still am somewhat, although not as bad - I hope).

qv62

thanks for sharing this

thanks for sharing this article, I remember being so hurt not hearing from some of the girls I worked with after one of my surgeries which I spent a week in the hospital and was out of work for almost 3 months and was unable to sit for six weeks (only allowed to stand or lay on my side) I spent many days agonizing over how they didn't even call to see how I was when I would call, offer to shop, send over a dinner etc... if it was any one of them, only to find out when one finally called she said "I'm sorry I didn't call sooner but Ms. X said we shouldn't call and bother you"  Sometimes people don't think for themselves it's a shame, on another note I was only home about 2 weeks after that surgery and it was Christmas Day, not being able to get in a car at this point and go to anyone elses house we invited my mother, she did not offer to bring anything and I was in no condition to cook, I called for catered food (first time ever on a holiday) and ate standing up at my kitchen counter while my family ate off paper plates at the kitchen table, didn't seem to phase my mother at all, now that was hurtful, and to put it in perspective my mother was fully capable and about 68 at the time, she just doesn't get it but I still feel that pain 

Marynb

qv62 said:

thanks for sharing this

thanks for sharing this article, I remember being so hurt not hearing from some of the girls I worked with after one of my surgeries which I spent a week in the hospital and was out of work for almost 3 months and was unable to sit for six weeks (only allowed to stand or lay on my side) I spent many days agonizing over how they didn't even call to see how I was when I would call, offer to shop, send over a dinner etc... if it was any one of them, only to find out when one finally called she said "I'm sorry I didn't call sooner but Ms. X said we shouldn't call and bother you"  Sometimes people don't think for themselves it's a shame, on another note I was only home about 2 weeks after that surgery and it was Christmas Day, not being able to get in a car at this point and go to anyone elses house we invited my mother, she did not offer to bring anything and I was in no condition to cook, I called for catered food (first time ever on a holiday) and ate standing up at my kitchen counter while my family ate off paper plates at the kitchen table, didn't seem to phase my mother at all, now that was hurtful, and to put it in perspective my mother was fully capable and about 68 at the time, she just doesn't get it but I still feel that pain 

Qv
Gosh, I am sorry that your Mom wasn't there for you. It is so hard to understand that. I just don't get it. I am from a family where we trip over each other trying to help out. I heard that my brothers and sisters actually fought with each other over who was driving me on any given day...LOL. I am so lucky! My Mom and Dad were already passed on when I got sick. I am grateful they never had to see me suffer.

Marynb

RoseC said:

Hi Marynb - I respect your

Hi Marynb - I respect your opinion, along with all others. And I oftentimes don't express myself correctly. Just wanted to clarify - I didn't mean self-centered people or people who are afraid cancer is contagious. I was talking more about people who are unable to deal with it either emotionally or physically. I had an uncle (who has since passed away) - very nice man, very compassionate, very caring - who when his aunt was aged and in a nursing home, could not cope with seeing her. It really disturbed him to see her like that. He wasn't being self-centered, he was protecting himself. We all do that (to some degree) - letting go of friends because they don't react as we think they should is, in my mind, a form of self-protection. I don't mean that it's wrong, just that there are many reasons why people do or don't do something, and it's not always clear either to us or even to them what those motivations are. Truly self-centered people? Yeah, not in my vocabulary either (although I once was one - still am somewhat, although not as bad - I hope).

RoseC
I am a very understanding person, but I really don't get people who are not able to be there for other people. It is just not acceptable to me. I guess it is a continuum. This is an interesting topic. What makes one person able to run into a burning building while others freeze in fear? What made some people run towards the bombings in Boston to help out, while others ran to safety? What makes some able to lend a hand to hold or a shoulder to cry on, when others sit and fret about how even witnessing tragedy effects them so that they do nothing? I have no idea what is was in my upbringing that made inaction unacceptable to me. My religion, my culture, being from a big family? I do understand what you are saying. Some people have weaknesses that don't allow them to be there for others. I don't accept those people into my life anymore. Everyone can do something! A card, dinner, phone call, clean a floor, pick up the mail, walk the dog.......something!

mp327

Marynb said:

RoseC
I am a very understanding person, but I really don't get people who are not able to be there for other people. It is just not acceptable to me. I guess it is a continuum. This is an interesting topic. What makes one person able to run into a burning building while others freeze in fear? What made some people run towards the bombings in Boston to help out, while others ran to safety? What makes some able to lend a hand to hold or a shoulder to cry on, when others sit and fret about how even witnessing tragedy effects them so that they do nothing? I have no idea what is was in my upbringing that made inaction unacceptable to me. My religion, my culture, being from a big family? I do understand what you are saying. Some people have weaknesses that don't allow them to be there for others. I don't accept those people into my life anymore. Everyone can do something! A card, dinner, phone call, clean a floor, pick up the mail, walk the dog.......something!

Marynb

I have to agree with you.  Even the smallest of gestures, even the indirect ones, can sometimes be all the lift someone needs to get through their rough day.  I think for people to turn their backs on someone in need just because they're afraid it's going to happen to them is a sign of real weakness.  I did not expect any of my friends to come hold my hand while I sat on the toilet and screamed in pain, but getting just one phone call a day from someone made it possible for me to get through those bad times.  I have a neighbor who I don't know all that well, but my husband and I ran into her husband the day after I had my port put in.  Since I was all taped up, he immediately knew I was sick and probably even knew what I had just had done, as his wife is a breast cancer survivor.  Right after I began my treatment, his wife came over with a beautiful basket full of hard candy, gingerale, soup mix, bananas, assorted teas, etc.  I was overwhelmed by her kindness and will never forget it.  Since she was a cancer survivor and had been through chemo, she knew the things that would be of help to me. 

I earlier mentioned my 3 nephews who rarely go visit my mother, who has dementia.  I really fault my brother for this for not raising them to have a kinder heart.  But he is pretty much the same way, so I shouldn't be surprised.  What surprises me though, is that when we were both young, one of our grandfathers was very sick and nearly every weekend our parents went to visit him.  It made him so happy and I loved visiting, even though I knew he was really sick.  After he died, our grandmother on the other side of the family had to go to a nursing home because of dementia (or back then known as "hardening of the arteries).  I had spent many hours sitting with her when she still lived at home so that my grandfather could have a break now and then.  When she finally went into the nursing home, again my parents took us to see her every weekend.  Perhaps my brother just cannot deal with the harsh realities of life or something, I just don't know.  However, the reality is this kind of stuff happens in all families, it can happen to our friends, and it can happen to us!  IMO, denial prepares us for nothing that might lie ahead.

Maybe having cancer has given me more strength than I could ever have imagined.

lp1964

Going through hard times.

Yesterday something has changed in me. I just finished a long nasty divorce. We lost everything we made with 20 years of hard work, but I'm ok with that, because I started a new life and despite of my cancer I'm very happy.

During and after the divorce my ex has alienated my 15 year old daughter from me with lies and accusations and it got really bad where she didn't want to see me at all and I was thinking about getting out of her life too so she has less conflict. But I kept fighting for her and got partial custody. Things slowly started getting better, but recently it just got too much for me chasing after my daughter's time. She shows no affection for me, offers no support, everything I try to suggest to guide her she rejects. This summer she was supposed to spend more time with me, but because of my illness I missed my June week and her mother won't let me make up for it. I asked my daughter to help me, bit she made no effort and stayed very cold towards me. I realize that she is a teenager and this may pass, but I just ran out of steam.

Not too long ago I was ok to fight for her and make an effort to be part of her life, but now I'm tired. I have a lot of people giving me support here on this forum, my doctors, nurses, wife, siblings. Yesterday I realized that I cannot deal with people who don't try to help or cant handle my illness including my daughter. When I feel like each time I have to fight for her to be with me and this really brings me down emotionally and now physically Which I cannot afford any more. 

I plan to tell her this and now I'm ready to let her go if that's how it has to be.

Any thoughts?

Laz

Lorikat

Marynb said:

Lorikat
Lorikat, trouble is a sieve through which only real friends pass. It is true that this particular cancer leads to more social isolation because of the bathroom issues! Not sure what can be done about that.

If you figure out the answer,

If you figure out the answer, let the whole world know!

 

mxperry220

lp1964 said:

Going through hard times.

Yesterday something has changed in me. I just finished a long nasty divorce. We lost everything we made with 20 years of hard work, but I'm ok with that, because I started a new life and despite of my cancer I'm very happy.

During and after the divorce my ex has alienated my 15 year old daughter from me with lies and accusations and it got really bad where she didn't want to see me at all and I was thinking about getting out of her life too so she has less conflict. But I kept fighting for her and got partial custody. Things slowly started getting better, but recently it just got too much for me chasing after my daughter's time. She shows no affection for me, offers no support, everything I try to suggest to guide her she rejects. This summer she was supposed to spend more time with me, but because of my illness I missed my June week and her mother won't let me make up for it. I asked my daughter to help me, bit she made no effort and stayed very cold towards me. I realize that she is a teenager and this may pass, but I just ran out of steam.

Not too long ago I was ok to fight for her and make an effort to be part of her life, but now I'm tired. I have a lot of people giving me support here on this forum, my doctors, nurses, wife, siblings. Yesterday I realized that I cannot deal with people who don't try to help or cant handle my illness including my daughter. When I feel like each time I have to fight for her to be with me and this really brings me down emotionally and now physically Which I cannot afford any more. 

I plan to tell her this and now I'm ready to let her go if that's how it has to be.

Any thoughts?

Laz

Your Second Wife

If I read your blog correctly you have remarried.  Your daughter may be having issues with this.  I know I had much resentment toward my dad when he remarried even though I was an adult when my parents divorced.  My dad was unfaitful to my mom for the 32 years they were married and the women he married he had on and off relationship with her during the time my mom and he were married and I was still living at home .  One bit of advice my dad gave me, which by the way was some of the best advice he ever gave me, was to not keep holding onto the hatred toward him.  As he explained, it was only hurting me and not good for my physical and emotional well being.  When he told me this I did not think too much about it at the time. Several months later I thought about what he said and realized he was correct.  Once I let it go it was like a 1,000 pound weight had beeen lifted off me. My dad passed away in 2009 and we had mended our relationship.

Mike 

lp1964

mxperry220 said:

Your Second Wife

If I read your blog correctly you have remarried.  Your daughter may be having issues with this.  I know I had much resentment toward my dad when he remarried even though I was an adult when my parents divorced.  My dad was unfaitful to my mom for the 32 years they were married and the women he married he had on and off relationship with her during the time my mom and he were married and I was still living at home .  One bit of advice my dad gave me, which by the way was some of the best advice he ever gave me, was to not keep holding onto the hatred toward him.  As he explained, it was only hurting me and not good for my physical and emotional well being.  When he told me this I did not think too much about it at the time. Several months later I thought about what he said and realized he was correct.  Once I let it go it was like a 1,000 pound weight had beeen lifted off me. My dad passed away in 2009 and we had mended our relationship.

Mike 

Dear Mike,

That's exactly what I told my daughter too.

My ex filed for divorce over 6 years ago, because we simply grew apart, whatever that means. my daughter was 9 at the time. For the following 4 years I never introduced any of my girlfriends to her, I kept everything separate. 2 years ago when I met my current wife I knew this was meaningful and I introduced them. Unfortunately our divorce got nasty and was dragged out. My ex used this time to fabricate the worst possible lies about me that my daughter still believes no matter how much love I showed her and how much I tried to prove that I'm still her loving father that I always was. It's just recently that I remarried, because my illness brought us closer together.

This has been going on for years now and my ex is not afraid to do or say anything about me to our daughter. She doesn't care how much she is screwing up her mind.

I'll have a serious talk with her and see what happens. I have no energy left to chase something I cant have.

Laz

Marynb

lp1964 said:

Dear Mike,

That's exactly what I told my daughter too.

My ex filed for divorce over 6 years ago, because we simply grew apart, whatever that means. my daughter was 9 at the time. For the following 4 years I never introduced any of my girlfriends to her, I kept everything separate. 2 years ago when I met my current wife I knew this was meaningful and I introduced them. Unfortunately our divorce got nasty and was dragged out. My ex used this time to fabricate the worst possible lies about me that my daughter still believes no matter how much love I showed her and how much I tried to prove that I'm still her loving father that I always was. It's just recently that I remarried, because my illness brought us closer together.

This has been going on for years now and my ex is not afraid to do or say anything about me to our daughter. She doesn't care how much she is screwing up her mind.

I'll have a serious talk with her and see what happens. I have no energy left to chase something I cant have.

Laz

Laz
She is a kid and change like this is very hard for a kid! Just be patient and give her time! Don't expect much for years! Someone once told me that they come back to you when their frontal lobes are fully developed......at around 22! Just keep letting her know you love her.......she wil come back. Don't expect too much. She is jealous of the new wife and needs steady and long term reassurance from you.

pializ

Marynb said:

Laz
She is a kid and change like this is very hard for a kid! Just be patient and give her time! Don't expect much for years! Someone once told me that they come back to you when their frontal lobes are fully developed......at around 22! Just keep letting her know you love her.......she wil come back. Don't expect too much. She is jealous of the new wife and needs steady and long term reassurance from you.

Laz

Just keep the door open for her. Don't get caught up in justifying yourself, just tell her you love her & will always be there for her no matter what. If seeing each other brings out the worst, just use technology eg texting. She will grow past this stage eventually. Doesn't sound like the ex is a candidate for co parenting. Do what you are able given the current situation.

Best wishes

Liz