Shrinking Balls Post Radiation Treatment?

Swingshiftworker

jackiegleasonscores said:

Hot but not shrinking!
You guys are funny. I just read another thread where you all were in a remarkbly intricate detailed discussion. Now here you are half joking around.
Anyway you all helped me 3 or 4 months ago just before my CK treatments and I am grateful. Now I am about 10 weeks past treatment.

A real side effect I had after biopsy in September and still have, in fact it feels like it is heating up more, is one testicle gets very warm. And i'm not playing with just one!! But seriously I haven't gotten a reasonable answer other than perhaps there was some nerve damage during biopsy.

First PSA came back 6.43. Last one before Ck was a bit over 8. What do you men think of that 6.43 number. Onc. and Uro. say this is the baseline reading they will use from here. Next PSA In June.

Wayne

Shoot for PSA 1 Within 2 Years
Wayne:

Take a look at the discussion in the thread that I started recently entitled "Still Not Below 1" here: http://csn.cancer.org/node/237864.

Many men w/in 3-6 months of CK quickly fall below 1 but you and I are not among them. There is a suggestion that a long period of time to nadir is better than a shorter one but the critical indicator that most people seem to accept for post-radiation treatment is PSA 1 within 2 years.

I'm currently at 1.55 after 18 months and am still not below 1. Hopefully, you'll do much better.

Good luck!

VascodaGama

Swingshiftworker said:

Shoot for PSA 1 Within 2 Years
Wayne:

Take a look at the discussion in the thread that I started recently entitled "Still Not Below 1" here: http://csn.cancer.org/node/237864.

Many men w/in 3-6 months of CK quickly fall below 1 but you and I are not among them. There is a suggestion that a long period of time to nadir is better than a shorter one but the critical indicator that most people seem to accept for post-radiation treatment is PSA 1 within 2 years.

I'm currently at 1.55 after 18 months and am still not below 1. Hopefully, you'll do much better.

Good luck!

Wayne and Swing
The process to kill cancer cells with radiation is equal to everybody because it destroys or damages the DNA of the cells. The hit must be precise but throwing arrows in the dark does not warranty that they hit the defined target. Proper diagnosis is a must and success also incorporates a proper choice of the absorbed dose, which should be enough or superior to the sensitivity of the cell’s nucleus.
This concept in my lay opinion is what makes the results different among RT patients.

The worse scenario would be if the cell’s type in a patient is less radiosensitive so that it can replicate/repair the damaged strand. Interesting is that there are drugs (sensitizers) to inhibit DNA repair. This may justify what many doctors recommend for not taking anti-oxidants (opposite sensitizers) while on treatment.

Our scientists have worked to optimise the doses so that RT can affect the cell’s DNA to the extent required with the lesser prejudice to the healthier ones.
At the end of the line, it would help to have one’s DNA (genetic) profile and choose the Grays that are most proper to one’s type of cell treatment.

In present times there is no precise rule to say that your treatments have failed. As far as your PSA decreases you should think only in success. Time is the answer and you need to give it a chance.
Here is an old document you may find interesting in reading;
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/nuclear-engineering/22-55j-principles-of-radiation-interactions-fall-2004/lecture-notes/ef_of_rad_on_dna.pdf

Best to you both.
VGama

jackiegleasonscores

VascodaGama said:

Wayne and Swing
The process to kill cancer cells with radiation is equal to everybody because it destroys or damages the DNA of the cells. The hit must be precise but throwing arrows in the dark does not warranty that they hit the defined target. Proper diagnosis is a must and success also incorporates a proper choice of the absorbed dose, which should be enough or superior to the sensitivity of the cell’s nucleus.
This concept in my lay opinion is what makes the results different among RT patients.

The worse scenario would be if the cell’s type in a patient is less radiosensitive so that it can replicate/repair the damaged strand. Interesting is that there are drugs (sensitizers) to inhibit DNA repair. This may justify what many doctors recommend for not taking anti-oxidants (opposite sensitizers) while on treatment.

Our scientists have worked to optimise the doses so that RT can affect the cell’s DNA to the extent required with the lesser prejudice to the healthier ones.
At the end of the line, it would help to have one’s DNA (genetic) profile and choose the Grays that are most proper to one’s type of cell treatment.

In present times there is no precise rule to say that your treatments have failed. As far as your PSA decreases you should think only in success. Time is the answer and you need to give it a chance.
Here is an old document you may find interesting in reading;
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/nuclear-engineering/22-55j-principles-of-radiation-interactions-fall-2004/lecture-notes/ef_of_rad_on_dna.pdf

Best to you both.
VGama

First PSA reading
Seems like SSW and I have had similar first PSA results. Now that i calculated the time after CK, the first lab was done only 9 weeks after treatment. I suppose I will just have to be patient until next lab in June.
Best of luck to you too SWING, I think patience might be the appropriate watchword for you at this 18 month period. It seems the studies referred to above project a continued, accelerated climb after month 18. Let's hope this will be your path too.
Wayne Retired from the bus seat and AWAY WE GO !!!!!!!!

Kongo

jackiegleasonscores said:

Hot but not shrinking!
You guys are funny. I just read another thread where you all were in a remarkbly intricate detailed discussion. Now here you are half joking around.
Anyway you all helped me 3 or 4 months ago just before my CK treatments and I am grateful. Now I am about 10 weeks past treatment.

A real side effect I had after biopsy in September and still have, in fact it feels like it is heating up more, is one testicle gets very warm. And i'm not playing with just one!! But seriously I haven't gotten a reasonable answer other than perhaps there was some nerve damage during biopsy.

First PSA came back 6.43. Last one before Ck was a bit over 8. What do you men think of that 6.43 number. Onc. and Uro. say this is the baseline reading they will use from here. Next PSA In June.

Wayne

Hot balls....
Who says you can't have fun with prostate cancer? LOL Now a bunch of snarky quips came to mind on the hot ball phenomena but I'll pass, Jackie.

I have never heard of this condition but it seems to me that if you had nerve damage during the biopsy perhaps it is possible.

I think your urologist is taking the correct approach to establish the baseline and to go from there.

K

Swingshiftworker

jackiegleasonscores said:

First PSA reading
Seems like SSW and I have had similar first PSA results. Now that i calculated the time after CK, the first lab was done only 9 weeks after treatment. I suppose I will just have to be patient until next lab in June.
Best of luck to you too SWING, I think patience might be the appropriate watchword for you at this 18 month period. It seems the studies referred to above project a continued, accelerated climb after month 18. Let's hope this will be your path too.
Wayne Retired from the bus seat and AWAY WE GO !!!!!!!!

My Wild Ride
Thanks, Wayne.

I'm aware of the data that predicts an accelerated decrease from 18-24 months and am hoping that occurs.

FYI, things have settled down a great deal recently on the PSA front for me, but my earlier post-treatment PSA history was unsettling to say the least. Here's a complete history, which illustrates the wild ride I've been on since I received my treatment:

09/22/10: Last of 4 CK treatments
12/03/10: PSA 12.30
12/15/10: PSA 9.48
03/23/11: PSA 3.03
06/14/11: PSA 5.07
06/20/11: PSA 3.72
09/12/11: PSA 3.56
12/23/11: PSA 1.81
03/26/12: PSA 1.55

The rise between 3/23/11 and 6/14/11 technically qualified as failure but the follow up a week later and the future decreases indicated that it was just a "bounce."

What scared me the most was how HIGH the PSA scores started out and how slow they seemed to drop, but I'm now at a level where I can actually hope that the treatment has succeeded in effectively killing the cancer.

The next 2 PSA tests will tell the tale and, as I said above, I have no choice but to wait to see what they reveal. Only time will tell . . .

mrspjd

Kongo said:

Hot balls....
Who says you can't have fun with prostate cancer? LOL Now a bunch of snarky quips came to mind on the hot ball phenomena but I'll pass, Jackie.

I have never heard of this condition but it seems to me that if you had nerve damage during the biopsy perhaps it is possible.

I think your urologist is taking the correct approach to establish the baseline and to go from there.

K

Jerry's perspective
In the spirit of “Laughter Is Always The Best Medicine,” here’s what Jerry Lee Lewis has to say on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjgZGhHrYY

Swingshiftworker

VascodaGama said:

Wayne and Swing
The process to kill cancer cells with radiation is equal to everybody because it destroys or damages the DNA of the cells. The hit must be precise but throwing arrows in the dark does not warranty that they hit the defined target. Proper diagnosis is a must and success also incorporates a proper choice of the absorbed dose, which should be enough or superior to the sensitivity of the cell’s nucleus.
This concept in my lay opinion is what makes the results different among RT patients.

The worse scenario would be if the cell’s type in a patient is less radiosensitive so that it can replicate/repair the damaged strand. Interesting is that there are drugs (sensitizers) to inhibit DNA repair. This may justify what many doctors recommend for not taking anti-oxidants (opposite sensitizers) while on treatment.

Our scientists have worked to optimise the doses so that RT can affect the cell’s DNA to the extent required with the lesser prejudice to the healthier ones.
At the end of the line, it would help to have one’s DNA (genetic) profile and choose the Grays that are most proper to one’s type of cell treatment.

In present times there is no precise rule to say that your treatments have failed. As far as your PSA decreases you should think only in success. Time is the answer and you need to give it a chance.
Here is an old document you may find interesting in reading;
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/nuclear-engineering/22-55j-principles-of-radiation-interactions-fall-2004/lecture-notes/ef_of_rad_on_dna.pdf

Best to you both.
VGama

No Choice But To Wait
Vasco:

As you say, "there is no precise rule to say that your treatments have failed" but there are 2 currently accepted parameters for identifying possible radiation treatment "failure" justifying further diagnosis and/or treatment: 1) a PSA rise of 2 or more and/or 2) 3 consecutive increases regardless of level following radiation.

There is also no precise rule for determining "success" but a drop below PSA 1 within 2 years seems to be a generally accepted measure of a greater probability of success based on past studies. Doesn't mean you still can't achieve success if your PSA is over 1 after 24 months, but the studies show an increased risk for failure if you don't.

The answer provided by time could either be success or failure. After a wild ride, my PSA scores are now trending down and, if the accelerated decline seen in other patients between 18-24 months holds true for me, I hope to see a drop below 1 for me by then.

Only time will tell and I have no choice but to wait.

Ciao!

shrinkydink10

Dont want to be judgemental but what's with the joking about a serious question?

As a matter of fact yes, my testicles did shrink after treatment. They are currently half their normal lifelong size. Oh and any guy here that says they don't check them daily is lying. Penis size also decreased. When I mentioned the testicle thing my urologist ignored the question ànd went on about my penis which I was well informed would shrink in size after treatment. I have found no information on the Internet about this. Also my muscle mass, body hair, facial hair and my bald spot were all effected after treatment. Becoming smaller and thinner with my bald spot regrowing some hair. Sex drive went out the window. I literally don't think about it anymore(did not have hormone treatment during or after). I am now 4 months post treatment and feel more and more like I'm becoming a woman. My urologist said my PSA, which went from 13.5 to 2.27 post treatment is good. Don't know. My Gleason score was 3+4=7. Don't know what that means either. Was told by my GP that there is nothing that can be done about my testicles and I was probably imagining their size anyway. They are literally the size of a 12 or 13 yr old boy. At this point I have to wonder if dying sooner or keeping my identity would have been better. Not kidding. Not even worried about sex just give me back me. Not sure what I expect but writing this down did allow me to vent at least. Have a good day all and best wishes to my fellow travelers.

Oldernow

https://csn.cancer.org/discussion/comment/1718220#Comment_1718220

Hey Shrinkydink10 -

Are you also on ADT along with your radiation treatment? If so, THAT is what "shrunk your junk."

I was put on Lupron shortly before my 28 radiation treatments. It effectively turns you into a pre-pubescent boy. My testosterone level dropped very low. My testicles shrunk to peanut size and the penis shrinkage is extreme. I am 77 and one year past my last Lupron injection with no recovery of "size" in sight. My urologist and radiation oncologist both said my testosterone may not recover due to my age - or may take a LONG time to recover. They suggested testosterone replacement therapy which can cause a host of problems along with your size recovery.

I agree that it would be nice to have normal "equipment" again. Only time will tell I guess…

Oldernow