Shrinking Balls Post Radiation Treatment?

Swingshiftworker

I've noticed that my testicles seem to have shrinked in size following CK treatment 2 years ago. This hasn't affected my sexual performance (no ED) but there has been a reduction in ejaculate (which was anticipated).

There are some articles on the Net that state that radiation can somehow cause shrinkage in penile length (but I haven't experienced that) and there are also articles that say that hormone therapy can shrink testicles (I haven't received any HT), but there doesn't seem to be any info on radiation causing shrinkage in testicle size.

Has anyone else who's received any form of radiation noticed any shrinkage in the size of their testicles?

Kongo

The Incredible Shrinking Ball....
Swing,

Have not noticed any such thing in my case and the radiation pattern for CK is specifically designed to avoid the testes since it could have an effect on T-levels. I can't imagine that radiation to the prostate would have any effect on the size of the testes but I am meeting with my radiologist next week and will ask him.

Maybe you're just playing with them too much.

K

Swingshiftworker

Kongo said:

The Incredible Shrinking Ball....
Swing,

Have not noticed any such thing in my case and the radiation pattern for CK is specifically designed to avoid the testes since it could have an effect on T-levels. I can't imagine that radiation to the prostate would have any effect on the size of the testes but I am meeting with my radiologist next week and will ask him.

Maybe you're just playing with them too much.

K

LOL!
Hey, Kongo: When I play w/myself, it's not w/my balls!

But, seriously, let me know if your RO has anything to say about this. It's not a problem for me; just curious if there's any known connection w/the treatment.

BTW, were you aware of the reports of penis shrinkage associated w/radiation treatment? We're both aware of the physiological effect of prostate surgery resulting in the reduction in exposed penile length but I never heard of the problem associated w/radiation until I looked into the shrinking testicles question. Apparently, EBRT and BT can cause a shrinkage in the urethra which causes shrinkage in penile length. This wouldn't be a problem for men treated w/CK since it can avoid radiating the penis. Not sure about IMRT but it should be less likely to cause this problem as well.

Just something else to warn men about before they decide on a course of treatment.

VascodaGama

Swingshiftworker said:

LOL!
Hey, Kongo: When I play w/myself, it's not w/my balls!

But, seriously, let me know if your RO has anything to say about this. It's not a problem for me; just curious if there's any known connection w/the treatment.

BTW, were you aware of the reports of penis shrinkage associated w/radiation treatment? We're both aware of the physiological effect of prostate surgery resulting in the reduction in exposed penile length but I never heard of the problem associated w/radiation until I looked into the shrinking testicles question. Apparently, EBRT and BT can cause a shrinkage in the urethra which causes shrinkage in penile length. This wouldn't be a problem for men treated w/CK since it can avoid radiating the penis. Not sure about IMRT but it should be less likely to cause this problem as well.

Just something else to warn men about before they decide on a course of treatment.

Late side effects
Swing

You have misinterpreted Kongo’s comment. It seems that He will inquire with his RO if playing with the balls makes them smaller.
Regarding the P “length”, I would think that such is part of the known RT “late side effects”. They occur 5 years later, shrinking on the average of 5 mm per year. LOL

VG

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

LOL!
Hey, Kongo: When I play w/myself, it's not w/my balls!

But, seriously, let me know if your RO has anything to say about this. It's not a problem for me; just curious if there's any known connection w/the treatment.

BTW, were you aware of the reports of penis shrinkage associated w/radiation treatment? We're both aware of the physiological effect of prostate surgery resulting in the reduction in exposed penile length but I never heard of the problem associated w/radiation until I looked into the shrinking testicles question. Apparently, EBRT and BT can cause a shrinkage in the urethra which causes shrinkage in penile length. This wouldn't be a problem for men treated w/CK since it can avoid radiating the penis. Not sure about IMRT but it should be less likely to cause this problem as well.

Just something else to warn men about before they decide on a course of treatment.

Penile Shrinking
Swing,

I hadn't heard of radiation causing penile shrinkage and haven't noticed anything different but then again, I'm not measuring it either. (Wait, honey, hold on a minute...I need to measure this thing)\

Since the urethra passes through the prostate I would imagine that if it does shrink a little from radiation it might have an impact.

Something else to ask the doc.

K

Timlong

Kongo said:

Penile Shrinking
Swing,

I hadn't heard of radiation causing penile shrinkage and haven't noticed anything different but then again, I'm not measuring it either. (Wait, honey, hold on a minute...I need to measure this thing)\

Since the urethra passes through the prostate I would imagine that if it does shrink a little from radiation it might have an impact.

Something else to ask the doc.

K

Honey, I've shrunk the......
My friend Tim mentioned penile shrinkage after his RP in late December. (at least half inch) I guess removing that section of urethra which passes through the Prostate gland and then pulling it back to the bladder neck causes this. Not sure what he will see (or not see) after radiation.

Jeff

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

LOL!
Hey, Kongo: When I play w/myself, it's not w/my balls!

But, seriously, let me know if your RO has anything to say about this. It's not a problem for me; just curious if there's any known connection w/the treatment.

BTW, were you aware of the reports of penis shrinkage associated w/radiation treatment? We're both aware of the physiological effect of prostate surgery resulting in the reduction in exposed penile length but I never heard of the problem associated w/radiation until I looked into the shrinking testicles question. Apparently, EBRT and BT can cause a shrinkage in the urethra which causes shrinkage in penile length. This wouldn't be a problem for men treated w/CK since it can avoid radiating the penis. Not sure about IMRT but it should be less likely to cause this problem as well.

Just something else to warn men about before they decide on a course of treatment.

I asked the doctor
There is absolutely no way your CK treatment had anything to do with your shrinking ball syndrome. He did mention that they naturally tend to change size based on diet, temperature, and so forth. Ditto with penis shrinkage. Never been recorded.

K

Swingshiftworker

Kongo said:

I asked the doctor
There is absolutely no way your CK treatment had anything to do with your shrinking ball syndrome. He did mention that they naturally tend to change size based on diet, temperature, and so forth. Ditto with penis shrinkage. Never been recorded.

K

Thanks!
Ok, thanks for asking. Was just wondering.

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

Thanks!
Ok, thanks for asking. Was just wondering.

Scrabble
So, you ought to consider Scrabble instead of playing pocket pool. LOL

Swingshiftworker

Kongo said:

Scrabble
So, you ought to consider Scrabble instead of playing pocket pool. LOL

Will do!

Will do!

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

Thanks!
Ok, thanks for asking. Was just wondering.

And another thing -- PSA Bounce
One other thing he mentioned during our chat that I found fascinating was that they are beginning to recognize that men who have a PSA bounce after radiation treatment have a much higher chance of never having a recurrence than those who don't have a bounce.

They haven't a clue as to why this might be and it seem contrary to what you might imagine. About 25% of men do have a PSA bounce and we mentioned it in the context of a slight bounce I had along the way where I went from a 0.9 up to 1.2 and then back to 0.8 on my last reading.

It doesn't mean that if you don't have a bound that you will have a recurrence, it just means that they've observed that much fewer men who do have a bounce have a recurrence. They don't know really what causes the bounce although most speculate that it has something to do with some last gasp cancer cells giving up the ghost. But he admitted that they're just guessing. Nobody knows for sure.

I thought that in light of your own PSA history after treatment that you might find that interesting and may want to bring it up with your own radiologist the next time you see him.

He said that the typical CK patient sees a PSA less than 1 by the two year point and that it continues to decline to about .2 to .5 in the next year or so.

He also indicated that there are several more studies coming out in the next year or so that will continue to confirm the good results recently reported in the Katz and King papers.

Best,

K

p.s. Sorry about the pocket pool crack, it was a low blow.

Swingshiftworker

Kongo said:

And another thing -- PSA Bounce
One other thing he mentioned during our chat that I found fascinating was that they are beginning to recognize that men who have a PSA bounce after radiation treatment have a much higher chance of never having a recurrence than those who don't have a bounce.

They haven't a clue as to why this might be and it seem contrary to what you might imagine. About 25% of men do have a PSA bounce and we mentioned it in the context of a slight bounce I had along the way where I went from a 0.9 up to 1.2 and then back to 0.8 on my last reading.

It doesn't mean that if you don't have a bound that you will have a recurrence, it just means that they've observed that much fewer men who do have a bounce have a recurrence. They don't know really what causes the bounce although most speculate that it has something to do with some last gasp cancer cells giving up the ghost. But he admitted that they're just guessing. Nobody knows for sure.

I thought that in light of your own PSA history after treatment that you might find that interesting and may want to bring it up with your own radiologist the next time you see him.

He said that the typical CK patient sees a PSA less than 1 by the two year point and that it continues to decline to about .2 to .5 in the next year or so.

He also indicated that there are several more studies coming out in the next year or so that will continue to confirm the good results recently reported in the Katz and King papers.

Best,

K

p.s. Sorry about the pocket pool crack, it was a low blow.

Still Waiting To Drop Below 1
Thanks for the info and the apology.

I just dropped below 2 for the 1st time in Dec 2011 -- 15 months after my CK treatment -- and am still hoping to get below 1 (or at least closer to that level) in March 2012 after my next PSA test.

So, I'm not even thinking about the "bounce" phenomenon yet (unless you're suggesting that my elevated levels post-CK -- there was one spike from 3.03 to 5.07 & back to 3.72 -- could be considered my bounce, which I doubt), but I'll keep it in mind.

fredfred0028

Kongo said:

Penile Shrinking
Swing,

I hadn't heard of radiation causing penile shrinkage and haven't noticed anything different but then again, I'm not measuring it either. (Wait, honey, hold on a minute...I need to measure this thing)\

Since the urethra passes through the prostate I would imagine that if it does shrink a little from radiation it might have an impact.

Something else to ask the doc.

K

Penile Shrinking
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Beau2

fredfred0028 said:

Penile Shrinking
content removed by CSN community manager

Penile Shrinking
Sorry you found Kongo's joke offensive. I did not.

I've been on this forum for a little while, and I can assure you that Kongo has provided extremely valuable PCa information to many a PCa patient that has helped them in their fight against PCa. I do not feel that Kongo had any intent to offend you or anyone else. I feel he was just trying to add some levity to a serious situation (PCa).

At times I make jokes about my PCa side effects ... levity helps me.

Kongo

fredfred0028 said:

Penile Shrinking
content removed by CSN community manager

Welcome
Welcome to the forum, fred.

hopeful and optimistic

Timlong said:

Honey, I've shrunk the......
My friend Tim mentioned penile shrinkage after his RP in late December. (at least half inch) I guess removing that section of urethra which passes through the Prostate gland and then pulling it back to the bladder neck causes this. Not sure what he will see (or not see) after radiation.

Jeff

I hear tell that using a vaccum pump nafter RP
will reduce or eliminate shrinkage.

Swingshiftworker

Timlong said:

Honey, I've shrunk the......
My friend Tim mentioned penile shrinkage after his RP in late December. (at least half inch) I guess removing that section of urethra which passes through the Prostate gland and then pulling it back to the bladder neck causes this. Not sure what he will see (or not see) after radiation.

Jeff

Penile Shortening After RP
Loss of penile length following RP is a little discussed and often overlooked consequence of RP.

When I asked about this with one urologist/surgeon, he claimed that there was no loss in penile length. Technically, he's correct because the external length of the penis is unchanged BUT the length associated with the portion of the urethra is lost after RP and the external length is "sucked" into the body to make up the difference after the lower and upper ends of the urethra tract and tied together. The net effect, however, is the apparent loss of penile length as a result of removing the prostate.

Using a suction tube regularly can "help" keep the penis from atrophying if there's ED following surgery and can "help" to keep more of the external length of the penis visible BUT it is unlikely that suction will actually help to restore the length lost due to the remove of the prostate.

howm

Interesting
The PC thing is new to me. Just learned about it for sure two weeks ago. I am going to use CK treatment plan. Part of the decision was all of the positive information read on this blog. Had not seen anything about shrinkage before. Interesting...... best of luck to everyone.
In reading deeper into the blog saw that is norm to provide a bit more information about one's PC. I have watched my PSA since the early 90's always been in the 2.8-3.5 range. In Aug it jumped to 4.2. We tested again to avoid lab error and got a 4.3. Scheduled biopsy and just before had a PSA of 3.0. Had a nasty reaction to biopsy...major infection took two months to clear up. Initial Doc did not tell me anything other than it was cancer and this was on the phone! Went for a second opinion two weeks ago and they confirmed that it was cancer. Two nodes with a Gleason Score of 7. Ruled out the "watchful waiting" thing. Spoke with a ROC who recommended CK. Sounded good and here we are. Will have the gold things placed in two weeks. Saw an interesting thread about time between treatments. Good info.

hopeful and optimistic

howm said:

Interesting
The PC thing is new to me. Just learned about it for sure two weeks ago. I am going to use CK treatment plan. Part of the decision was all of the positive information read on this blog. Had not seen anything about shrinkage before. Interesting...... best of luck to everyone.
In reading deeper into the blog saw that is norm to provide a bit more information about one's PC. I have watched my PSA since the early 90's always been in the 2.8-3.5 range. In Aug it jumped to 4.2. We tested again to avoid lab error and got a 4.3. Scheduled biopsy and just before had a PSA of 3.0. Had a nasty reaction to biopsy...major infection took two months to clear up. Initial Doc did not tell me anything other than it was cancer and this was on the phone! Went for a second opinion two weeks ago and they confirmed that it was cancer. Two nodes with a Gleason Score of 7. Ruled out the "watchful waiting" thing. Spoke with a ROC who recommended CK. Sounded good and here we are. Will have the gold things placed in two weeks. Saw an interesting thread about time between treatments. Good info.

Hope that you
got a second opinion on the pathology of your biopsy.....by an expert so you are not over or under treated.

Is your gleason 4+3=7 or 3+4=7?

What is the involvement of each core?

What is your age and general health like?

Generally CK treatment has been done on those with a a 3+3+6 gleason. There have been few treatments, as I remember with a low volume 3+4=7. (Hopefully others can add input to this point)

Swingshiftworker

howm said:

Interesting
The PC thing is new to me. Just learned about it for sure two weeks ago. I am going to use CK treatment plan. Part of the decision was all of the positive information read on this blog. Had not seen anything about shrinkage before. Interesting...... best of luck to everyone.
In reading deeper into the blog saw that is norm to provide a bit more information about one's PC. I have watched my PSA since the early 90's always been in the 2.8-3.5 range. In Aug it jumped to 4.2. We tested again to avoid lab error and got a 4.3. Scheduled biopsy and just before had a PSA of 3.0. Had a nasty reaction to biopsy...major infection took two months to clear up. Initial Doc did not tell me anything other than it was cancer and this was on the phone! Went for a second opinion two weeks ago and they confirmed that it was cancer. Two nodes with a Gleason Score of 7. Ruled out the "watchful waiting" thing. Spoke with a ROC who recommended CK. Sounded good and here we are. Will have the gold things placed in two weeks. Saw an interesting thread about time between treatments. Good info.

Good luck!
Good luck w/your CK treatment.

A number of us here have already received it and the prognosis for us has been good. I believe all of us were Gleason 6 when treated but I don't see why it won't work for Gleason 7 as long as there's been no cancer migration. Alternate treatments are available if this has occurred.

Since you had a negative reaction to the biopsy, you should ask about a perineal placement of the seeds instead of transrectal (or at least get max antibiotics) before the placement.

Please keep us up to date on your progress in a separate and original thread.

jackiegleasonscores

Hot but not shrinking!
You guys are funny. I just read another thread where you all were in a remarkbly intricate detailed discussion. Now here you are half joking around.
Anyway you all helped me 3 or 4 months ago just before my CK treatments and I am grateful. Now I am about 10 weeks past treatment.

A real side effect I had after biopsy in September and still have, in fact it feels like it is heating up more, is one testicle gets very warm. And i'm not playing with just one!! But seriously I haven't gotten a reasonable answer other than perhaps there was some nerve damage during biopsy.

First PSA came back 6.43. Last one before Ck was a bit over 8. What do you men think of that 6.43 number. Onc. and Uro. say this is the baseline reading they will use from here. Next PSA In June.

Wayne