Is Diet a real potential solution

ob66

So at length on this board we discuss cyberknife, daVinci, seeds, AUS, RT whether it be IMRT or IGRT, etc. Most of us are victims of the big bad PCa, many others our loved support systems whether spouses, family, friends or whatever. So we collectively search for the best solutions to each of our problems, the answers different depending on each of our particular situations. Having been two years into this with personally using daVinci, AUS, Lupron, and RT, I am more interested in going forward.

So with all that introduction, how many of you involve diet in your reaction to your problem? Who doubts it's efficacy and why? Who can't be bothered for the choices are life changing? I am talking about the usage of the Asian and/or Meditteranean type diets with no red meat, no dairy and as little sugar as possible. Is there skepticism here, or is there a perceived sad lack of information coming from the medical community? I get the impression doctors either are not believers in diet, or are just too busy to really deal with it in depth.

What think thee? And Kongo, 7 months later I am still on purpose. Yesterday gave me another less than 0.01 (lupron assisted) with an all time high of 0.07 one year ago. That with an 8 post surgery Gleason.

Kongo

Solutions
Ob,

Congratulations on your continuing low PSA readings. Considering your initial diagnosis and treatment, I am sure that you are thrilled with the progress you have made.

All of us react to our cancer diagnosis in different ways. In my own journey, I have gradually come to believe that diet and nutrition are absolutely essential in arresting cancer but also in addressing most other chronic diseases we are suffering from in the United States and other Western nations such as diabetes, MS, dementia, heart disease and so forth.

About a year ago, shortly after my initial diagnosis, I eliminated all dairy after re-reading a book by Professor Jane Plant called Your Life in Your Hands which addressed her own journey with breast cancer and a follow on book about the impact of dairy on prostate cancer. Eliminating dairy significantly reduced my PSA scores even before treatment with CyberKnife. I started paying much more attention to diet and significantly reduced but did not completely eliminate red meat, eggs, or fish.

A few months ago I read "The China Study." It affected me greatly as I found its factual, statistic-based approach compelling. Frankly, I was stunned that I didn't know these things before. After much thought and deliberation I went Vegan in February. Candidly, I didn't think I could stick with it because I travel frequently, I greatly enjoyed red meat and fish, and I anticipated it would be too hard to just go cold turkey with this. I found the opposite to be true and was surprised at how easy it was with a little education. I now find that I continue to lose weight, chronic heartburn that I used to have has vanished, I have more energy and clearer thought processes than ever before and best of all, I feel great. And my progress with prostate cancer continues to be without side effect or any evidence of the disease.

I have come to believe that in America we are only treating the symptoms of cancer with surgery, chemo, or radiation. The fundamental causes for the cancer developing in the first place are generally not addressed by our medical profession and few doctors have anything more than one or perhaps two classes in diet and nutrition in their rigorous training.

You don't have to be a professional nutritionist or diet specialist to grasp the overwhelming evidence that in America what we are putting in our mouths is killing us. The processed foods from animals that have been given growth hormones, antibiotics, and fed food they don't eat in the wild has created a significant imbalance in the chemical stoichiometry in our bodies at the molecular level which is essentially giving candy to cancer. For many, if not most Americans, our diets are creating the perfect breeding ground for chronic diseases such as cancer, heart disease, and the other curses of life in a “wealthy nation.”

One of the most eye-opening chapters discussed in The China Study showed that in populations where less than 10% of protein came from casein (protein from animals) that the innate immune systems were fully capable of handling cancer. When more than 15% of protein came from animal proteins, cancer grew. These percentages held even in the presence of carcinogens. In other words, researchers found they could turn cancer on and off simply by adjusting the amount of animal protein that was consumed.

It makes little sense to me why a man (or any cancer patient) would not seriously think about what caused his cancer in the first place and try to change the factors that started it after treatment. Too many, in my opinion, feel that they’re “cured” after their treatment and can go back to doing whatever they were doing before. I know this is an over generalization and I do believe there are a growing number of men such as you, Ob, that are making conscious changes to control the things they actually have control over – like what we put in our mouths.

I certainly don’t think my meager studies make me any sort of an expert on this but all of us who have had a cancer diagnosis fear a recurrence and we spend hundreds of hours posting and reading posts and studies and talking to doctors about what mysteries might be contained in a rising PSA level after treatment. I would encourage men to do their own research on the impact of diet in this area and make their own decisions based on facts. A couple of books to start you thinking are the previously mentioned China Study and Jane Plant’s books. I would add to that the Omnivore’s Dilemma.

Best to you, ob, and thanks for starting what I hope turns out to be an interesting thread.

K

hopeful and optimistic

diet
My diet had always been pretty healthy, eating a low fat, high fiber diet, with very little meat....I mainly ate a lot of fish............during the last several months,I've made some changes and cut out all dairy products, having soy with cereal instead of non fat milk ....less bread and white potatoes....more yams and sweet potatoes........I still eat fish..lot's of tomato sauce........moderate exercise every day.

About a year ago I had problems getting around because of a spine issue.........and my weight and colesterol , etc went up......anyway this issue has improved, and along with my diet change and exercise increase, my weight dropped 15 pounds...my BMI is in the normal range at about 24 or 25......Just had a blood test.........my total colesterol has dropped about 35 points to 157 ; my hdl, is 55..to my two year ago levels....I wonder what quantitative results others can show, re: colesterol levels and weight.....any drops noted or elimination of drugs...i.e statins.

My treatment decision is Active Surveillance........ Compared to last year, I am in a lot better shape .....so I feel that I am physically prepared, in case I have to go with a more active type treatment such as surgery......by the way my PSA has been holding steady.

I also believe that heart healthy living is appropriate for all, in preventing or reducing the effects of all types of disease

ob66

hopeful and optimistic said:

diet
My diet had always been pretty healthy, eating a low fat, high fiber diet, with very little meat....I mainly ate a lot of fish............during the last several months,I've made some changes and cut out all dairy products, having soy with cereal instead of non fat milk ....less bread and white potatoes....more yams and sweet potatoes........I still eat fish..lot's of tomato sauce........moderate exercise every day.

About a year ago I had problems getting around because of a spine issue.........and my weight and colesterol , etc went up......anyway this issue has improved, and along with my diet change and exercise increase, my weight dropped 15 pounds...my BMI is in the normal range at about 24 or 25......Just had a blood test.........my total colesterol has dropped about 35 points to 157 ; my hdl, is 55..to my two year ago levels....I wonder what quantitative results others can show, re: colesterol levels and weight.....any drops noted or elimination of drugs...i.e statins.

My treatment decision is Active Surveillance........ Compared to last year, I am in a lot better shape .....so I feel that I am physically prepared, in case I have to go with a more active type treatment such as surgery......by the way my PSA has been holding steady.

I also believe that heart healthy living is appropriate for all, in preventing or reducing the effects of all types of disease

Hopeful
My dietary choices were made to abet the other modalities treating my cancer, but just like you after 4 months of no red meat, no dairy, and as little sugar as possible, my blood tests improved immensely. My cholesterol had been just below 200 with 40 mgs. of lipitor. My hdl was in the low 40s. My cholesterol is now 148 and my hdl has gone up about 25% to 55. My doctor was most surprised by the latter. My B12 was on the low side (no red meat) so I now supplement.

I work out at least 4 times a week at the club with cardio and weight lifting, plus walking at least 2-3 miles a day on any day I do not play golf. And with that, I am hopeful too.

VascodaGama

ob66 said:

Hopeful
My dietary choices were made to abet the other modalities treating my cancer, but just like you after 4 months of no red meat, no dairy, and as little sugar as possible, my blood tests improved immensely. My cholesterol had been just below 200 with 40 mgs. of lipitor. My hdl was in the low 40s. My cholesterol is now 148 and my hdl has gone up about 25% to 55. My doctor was most surprised by the latter. My B12 was on the low side (no red meat) so I now supplement.

I work out at least 4 times a week at the club with cardio and weight lifting, plus walking at least 2-3 miles a day on any day I do not play golf. And with that, I am hopeful too.

Activities aimed at reducing the global cancer burden
OB

To give my 5cents worth in your thread I would like to post an interesting abstract of the European (EPIC) study (2010 Sep) which might be what European physicians think on the relationship between Diet and Cancer.

Two notes go for the frequently stated in this forum regarding the (1) Mediterranean diet which is regarded as “good” against gastric cancer; and to (2) Dairy products which were associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer.

It says in whole;

“We present the main findings observed to date from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) on dietary factors associated with the most frequent cancer sites. METHODS: EPIC is a multicenter prospective study carried out in 23 centers in 10 European countries: Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom, including 519,978 participants (366,521 women and 153,457 men), most aged 35-70 years. RESULTS: We observed the following significant associations: gastric cancer risk was inversely associated with high plasma vitamin C, some carotenoids, retinol and α-tocopherol, high intake of cereal fiber and high adhesion to Mediterranean diet, while red and processed meat were associated with increased risk. High intake of dietary fiber, fish, calcium, and plasma vitamin D were associated with a decreased risk of colorectal cancer, while red and processed meat intake, alcohol intake, body mass index (BMI) and abdominal obesity were associated with an increased risk. High intake of fruit and vegetables in current smokers were associated with a decreased risk of lung cancer. An increased risk of breast cancer was associated with high saturated fat intake and alcohol intake. In postmenopausal women, BMI was positively and physical activity negatively associated with breast cancer risk. High intake of dairy protein and calcium from dairy products and high serum concentration of IGF-I were associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer. These results contribute to scientific evidence for appropriate public health strategies and prevention activities aimed at reducing the global cancer burden.”

Hopefully these sort of studies get to the many as awareness against cancer before anyone becomes a “survivor”. For us it is not too late if we aspire for a prolonged healthy life.

Regards
VGama

Beau2

PCa/Diet
ob66,

Here are a couple of PCa/Diet sites that were posted on another forum. The first site contains a very intersting PDF file that summarizes diet/supplement research.

cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/menu/topics/canticancerdietmain.html

Swingshiftworker

Dietary Choices
FWIW, I've recently made significant changes in my diet for general health purposes along the lines discussed above.

I haven't eliminated EVERYTHING supposedly "bad" for you from my diet but I've substantially reduced sodas, alcohol, refined grains, sugar, fat and red meat and I've made the effort to significantly increase my intake of whole grains, fruits, veggies and fish. Never ate much dairy and that hasn't changed. The only "milk" I drink is soymilk because I'm lactose intolerant.

I didn't make these changes based on any specific belief that it would arrest or prevent my PCa (or any other cancer) from growing. If it has that effect GREAT! -- but all I'm hoping for is better health generally.

mrspjd

Beau2 said:

PCa/Diet
ob66,

Here are a couple of PCa/Diet sites that were posted on another forum. The first site contains a very intersting PDF file that summarizes diet/supplement research.

cancer.ucsf.edu/_docs/crc/nutrition_prostate.pdf

www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/menu/topics/canticancerdietmain.html

Excellent UCSF link re nutrition, diet & PCa
Thanks, Beau, for posting the link to the very informative UCSF PDF file. It contains some of the best overall info from a reputable source related to the connection of PCa with diet & nutrition. The data also seems to lean toward supporting the concepts put forth in the book "The China Study," especially related to the benefits of a plant based diet and decreasing or eliminating animal protien, dairy and red meat.

The UCSF site even has a 3 day sample diet menu plan, recipes and cookbook recommendations, as well as a glossary of terms. I hope everyone takes some time to review this excellent & free online resource.

ob66

Swingshiftworker said:

Dietary Choices
FWIW, I've recently made significant changes in my diet for general health purposes along the lines discussed above.

I haven't eliminated EVERYTHING supposedly "bad" for you from my diet but I've substantially reduced sodas, alcohol, refined grains, sugar, fat and red meat and I've made the effort to significantly increase my intake of whole grains, fruits, veggies and fish. Never ate much dairy and that hasn't changed. The only "milk" I drink is soymilk because I'm lactose intolerant.

I didn't make these changes based on any specific belief that it would arrest or prevent my PCa (or any other cancer) from growing. If it has that effect GREAT! -- but all I'm hoping for is better health generally.

Swingshift
I hope when you say that you have reduced substantially sodas, alcohol......that you certainly do not mean red wine. The benefits, when taken in moderation, are primo. I just hope that "moderation" is not defined too strictly. We do need our vises, and I am in VascodaGama's camp on this one. Denying yourself so much, a good cab can save the day. I am going to talk to Mrs. ob66 to see if I can start a recipe of the week for those that like to eat fine food, but without red meat, dairy, and as low on sugar as possible. For me to attempt that is folly. Noone would table up to my cooking. More to come.

hopeful and optimistic

ob66 said:

Swingshift
I hope when you say that you have reduced substantially sodas, alcohol......that you certainly do not mean red wine. The benefits, when taken in moderation, are primo. I just hope that "moderation" is not defined too strictly. We do need our vises, and I am in VascodaGama's camp on this one. Denying yourself so much, a good cab can save the day. I am going to talk to Mrs. ob66 to see if I can start a recipe of the week for those that like to eat fine food, but without red meat, dairy, and as low on sugar as possible. For me to attempt that is folly. Noone would table up to my cooking. More to come.

Dr. Mark Moyad
talks about consumption of alcohol.....his recommendation is one glass a day for a woman, and the usual case a day for men.........as I remember, he does not distinguish between red wine and other alcohols.

Swingshiftworker

ob66 said:

Swingshift
I hope when you say that you have reduced substantially sodas, alcohol......that you certainly do not mean red wine. The benefits, when taken in moderation, are primo. I just hope that "moderation" is not defined too strictly. We do need our vises, and I am in VascodaGama's camp on this one. Denying yourself so much, a good cab can save the day. I am going to talk to Mrs. ob66 to see if I can start a recipe of the week for those that like to eat fine food, but without red meat, dairy, and as low on sugar as possible. For me to attempt that is folly. Noone would table up to my cooking. More to come.

On Becoming A Vegan
I haven't given up anything, I just eat and drink less of everything!

It was originally suggested to me to give up both alcohol and sodas because there are urinary inflamatory substances and would aggravate the urinary frequency problem that I was complaining about that led to the discovery of my PCa.

So, I stopped drinking the 4-6 cans of beer and soda (combined) that I was drinking daily. Oddly, that has had no effect on my weight nor any apparent effect on my urinary frequency. I still drink some sodas and near beer but mostly drink green tea and water instead. Still enjoy red, white and sparkling wine and hard alcohol on occasion, but I never drank much of these to begin with and drink the same limited amount now.

I actually had a consultation w/a dietitian at UCSF's cancer center -- they have a thick 8.5"x11" booklet discussing cancer and dietary research -- and the only cancer specific changes that I made related to the research was to eliminate iron and calcium (which are both associated w/PCa) from my diet.

I was taking calcium tablets because I do not drink milk or each much cheese and yogurt and the iron was in my daily multi-vitamin. Switched to a multi-vitamin w/o iron (Centrum Silver substitute) which still has some calcium(250mg) in it -- just not as much as the 2000 mg daily that I was taking before -- which should be ok. The dietitian actually said that she didn't think I needed the multi-vitamin at all, but I take it anyway because I don't always eat a "balanced" diet and take it for peace of mind.

All the other changes that I made to my diet are associated with general health benefits which are correlated but not "proven" to control cancer. Actually, reading the data, it appears the only way to really insure a healthy (anti-cancer/heart disease) diet is to become a vegan with a vegan multi-vitamin to offset the lack of critical nutrients absent from a strict vegan diet.

I obviously have absolutely no intention of doing that but IHMO anyone who seriously believes that diet is the key to controlling cancer would -- based on the existing evidence -- have to become a vegan.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

On Becoming A Vegan
I haven't given up anything, I just eat and drink less of everything!

It was originally suggested to me to give up both alcohol and sodas because there are urinary inflamatory substances and would aggravate the urinary frequency problem that I was complaining about that led to the discovery of my PCa.

So, I stopped drinking the 4-6 cans of beer and soda (combined) that I was drinking daily. Oddly, that has had no effect on my weight nor any apparent effect on my urinary frequency. I still drink some sodas and near beer but mostly drink green tea and water instead. Still enjoy red, white and sparkling wine and hard alcohol on occasion, but I never drank much of these to begin with and drink the same limited amount now.

I actually had a consultation w/a dietitian at UCSF's cancer center -- they have a thick 8.5"x11" booklet discussing cancer and dietary research -- and the only cancer specific changes that I made related to the research was to eliminate iron and calcium (which are both associated w/PCa) from my diet.

I was taking calcium tablets because I do not drink milk or each much cheese and yogurt and the iron was in my daily multi-vitamin. Switched to a multi-vitamin w/o iron (Centrum Silver substitute) which still has some calcium(250mg) in it -- just not as much as the 2000 mg daily that I was taking before -- which should be ok. The dietitian actually said that she didn't think I needed the multi-vitamin at all, but I take it anyway because I don't always eat a "balanced" diet and take it for peace of mind.

All the other changes that I made to my diet are associated with general health benefits which are correlated but not "proven" to control cancer. Actually, reading the data, it appears the only way to really insure a healthy (anti-cancer/heart disease) diet is to become a vegan with a vegan multi-vitamin to offset the lack of critical nutrients absent from a strict vegan diet.

I obviously have absolutely no intention of doing that but IHMO anyone who seriously believes that diet is the key to controlling cancer would -- based on the existing evidence -- have to become a vegan.

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

Actually
There are some variatons and nuances to the vegan thing, at least from my perspective. The China Study showed that if you keep total protien from animal products to less than 10% of your diet then overwhelming cancer does not grow. If it is growing it tends to reverse and go into remission. If you go above 15% in animal products then the cancers will come back. I've targeted my diet to keep 90% of the protein from plants...which gives me a little leeway if I want to have some fish once in a while if eating out. I avoid red meat completely.

Swing, what do you mean by "Proven" in your post?

K

hopeful and optimistic

Kongo said:

Actually
There are some variatons and nuances to the vegan thing, at least from my perspective. The China Study showed that if you keep total protien from animal products to less than 10% of your diet then overwhelming cancer does not grow. If it is growing it tends to reverse and go into remission. If you go above 15% in animal products then the cancers will come back. I've targeted my diet to keep 90% of the protein from plants...which gives me a little leeway if I want to have some fish once in a while if eating out. I avoid red meat completely.

Swing, what do you mean by "Proven" in your post?

K

I wonder
have you noticed any physical changes?..........Also, just asking, but why would one want to limit fish intake? ....not talking about fish that contains mercury...simply basic fish caught in the ocean, or salmon, etc...the good ones.

Kongo

hopeful and optimistic said:

I wonder
have you noticed any physical changes?..........Also, just asking, but why would one want to limit fish intake? ....not talking about fish that contains mercury...simply basic fish caught in the ocean, or salmon, etc...the good ones.

Doesn't matter
Ira,

Fresh ocean fish are certainly better than processed red meat but it still is animal protien. While some fish is good, when the percentage percentage of animal protien in a diet is increased, particularly protien from casein, above 15% then cancers will grow along with a number of other health issues. Please read The China Study which was a joint effort between Cornell University, Oxford University and China’s health research laboratory. The researchers gathered data on 367 variables, across 65 counties in China and 6,500 adults. The research was conducted over a 10 year period and was funded by both the Chinese and the United States government. Very comprehensive.

As far as physical changes, there certainly has been weight loss which my radiologist immediately noticed yesterday during a meeting with him. We got to talking about the China Study and he was fascinated. He then admitted that throughout his entire medical training at Harvard that he had a grand total of two nutrition classes and he indicated that was twice as much as most of his colleagues.

In this area we're on our own.

K

Swingshiftworker

Kongo said:

Actually
There are some variatons and nuances to the vegan thing, at least from my perspective. The China Study showed that if you keep total protien from animal products to less than 10% of your diet then overwhelming cancer does not grow. If it is growing it tends to reverse and go into remission. If you go above 15% in animal products then the cancers will come back. I've targeted my diet to keep 90% of the protein from plants...which gives me a little leeway if I want to have some fish once in a while if eating out. I avoid red meat completely.

Swing, what do you mean by "Proven" in your post?

K

Proven as in Cause and Effect
Kongo, you're probably more well-read in terms of the scientific literature on cancer than I am, but nothing that I've read, seen or heard has "proven" with absolutely certainty that any specific food product causes or prevents cancer. The best any study does is suggest that there are various degrees of correlation between certain food sources and cancer.

I'm not in denial -- like the smoking industry when it suggests there's no "proof" that smoking causes certain forms of cancer and heart disease. However, I don't think the evidence is so precise that you can (for example) be certain that if you reduce your animal product intake to 10% that you still won't get cancer or that another cancer will not develop in your body.

People who exercise daily, who don't smoke and who eat ONLY vegan products still get cancer and/or heart disease. Why's that? George Burns -- who lived to 100 -- smoked a cigar every day and died of cardiac arrest following a bathtub accident. Why not lung or throat cancer? No one knows.

There are all kinds of contradictory data and I'm not willing to deprive myself of anything unless the correlation between the suspect food source and cancer is so great that (like smoking) it can't be denied or unless rejection of the suspect food source is of no consequence to me. Changing to a non-iron based multi-vitamin and stopping the taking of 2000 additional mg daily of calcium tablets by me are examples of the latter.

As of yet, I've not heard of any "normal" food product -- as distinguished from various chemicals and additives -- that are "proven" to cause or promote the growth of cancer with sufficient certainly (although there are substances like calcium and iron that are highly correlated with it) that I need to stop eating them entirely and until I do, I'll continue to "pick and choose" the types of things that I'll eat -- even those associated w/cancer -- like eating cheese & yogurt or smoking a cigar -- with due regard for the potential risks.

I think that's all any of us can do, unless you choose to become a vegan (or a 90% vegan, if you think that's sufficient). Best wishes and regards . . .

bdhilton

Yes I believe that diet
Yes I believe that diet plays an important part in your overall health and have posted several details views over the last year or so…

Lots of good information out there one of my favorite places for updated information are the web sites for UCSF and Prostate Cancer Foundation (give often to these guys…they fund the cutting edge and have done more for PCa than any group) –

What I get out of all of this is that we should eat better quality food (less fat, less red meat, less salt, less sugar, less alcohol and more fruit, veggies, fish, nuts, whole grains, fiber and antioxidants) and exercise more for improved health, but there were still some interesting details.

Generally, a "healthy" diet is recommended for cancer patients in order to:
1) reduce the risk of chronic disease, 2) help to inhibit cancer growth, 3) enhance the immune system, 4) increase energy levels and 4) to facilitate recovery from cancer treatment.

The following were specifically recommended for a "Cancer Protective Diet" from UCSF:
1) 8-10 "colorful" fruit & veggie servings daily
2) 30-40 gms of fiber daily from beans/legumes & whole grains
3) Limit consumption of processed and refined foods (eg., white rice & bread)
4) Limit meat & daily products; avoid processed meats ( I eat wild cold water fish only)
5) Increase healthy fats (omega 3 fatty acids) from cold water fish, nuts, etc.)
6) Drink 1-4 cups of green tea daily
7) Avoid or limit alcohol consumption (I drink 2-3 glass of wine frequently per instructions from oncologist)
8) Get tested for Vitamin D and take supplement as needed (up to 1-2gm daily)
9) Increase daily intake of antioxidant rich foods, which include lycopene, selenium & Vitamin E.
10) And, lastly, exercise at least 30-60 mins daily to achieve an acceptable BMI. (I exercise 90-120 minutes a day 5x week)

No real surprises here and no evidence that following these suggestions will "cure" or prevent reoccurrence of your cancer. However, it certainly can't hurt you and will definitely make you a healthier person.

As far as fish… sardines are #1 followed by wild caught salmon and north water fish in general seem to be the purest…As far as calories in fish … I eat 4-5+ servings a week and I would say it is a little less than 5% of my total intake of calories… for example an entire tin of King Oscar Sardines (in extra virgin olive oil) are 150 calories….Do what you believe will help you keep this beast at bay…I am still cancer free
Best to all

Swingshiftworker

bdhilton said:

Yes I believe that diet
Yes I believe that diet plays an important part in your overall health and have posted several details views over the last year or so…

Lots of good information out there one of my favorite places for updated information are the web sites for UCSF and Prostate Cancer Foundation (give often to these guys…they fund the cutting edge and have done more for PCa than any group) –

What I get out of all of this is that we should eat better quality food (less fat, less red meat, less salt, less sugar, less alcohol and more fruit, veggies, fish, nuts, whole grains, fiber and antioxidants) and exercise more for improved health, but there were still some interesting details.

Generally, a "healthy" diet is recommended for cancer patients in order to:
1) reduce the risk of chronic disease, 2) help to inhibit cancer growth, 3) enhance the immune system, 4) increase energy levels and 4) to facilitate recovery from cancer treatment.

The following were specifically recommended for a "Cancer Protective Diet" from UCSF:
1) 8-10 "colorful" fruit & veggie servings daily
2) 30-40 gms of fiber daily from beans/legumes & whole grains
3) Limit consumption of processed and refined foods (eg., white rice & bread)
4) Limit meat & daily products; avoid processed meats ( I eat wild cold water fish only)
5) Increase healthy fats (omega 3 fatty acids) from cold water fish, nuts, etc.)
6) Drink 1-4 cups of green tea daily
7) Avoid or limit alcohol consumption (I drink 2-3 glass of wine frequently per instructions from oncologist)
8) Get tested for Vitamin D and take supplement as needed (up to 1-2gm daily)
9) Increase daily intake of antioxidant rich foods, which include lycopene, selenium & Vitamin E.
10) And, lastly, exercise at least 30-60 mins daily to achieve an acceptable BMI. (I exercise 90-120 minutes a day 5x week)

No real surprises here and no evidence that following these suggestions will "cure" or prevent reoccurrence of your cancer. However, it certainly can't hurt you and will definitely make you a healthier person.

As far as fish… sardines are #1 followed by wild caught salmon and north water fish in general seem to be the purest…As far as calories in fish … I eat 4-5+ servings a week and I would say it is a little less than 5% of my total intake of calories… for example an entire tin of King Oscar Sardines (in extra virgin olive oil) are 150 calories….Do what you believe will help you keep this beast at bay…I am still cancer free
Best to all

UCSF Dietary Recommendations
These are all of the dietary recommendations that I'm following based on my discussion w/the dietitian at UCSF and the thick 8.5"x11" booklet that I got from the UCSF Cancer Center.

Kongo

Swingshiftworker said:

Proven as in Cause and Effect
Kongo, you're probably more well-read in terms of the scientific literature on cancer than I am, but nothing that I've read, seen or heard has "proven" with absolutely certainty that any specific food product causes or prevents cancer. The best any study does is suggest that there are various degrees of correlation between certain food sources and cancer.

I'm not in denial -- like the smoking industry when it suggests there's no "proof" that smoking causes certain forms of cancer and heart disease. However, I don't think the evidence is so precise that you can (for example) be certain that if you reduce your animal product intake to 10% that you still won't get cancer or that another cancer will not develop in your body.

People who exercise daily, who don't smoke and who eat ONLY vegan products still get cancer and/or heart disease. Why's that? George Burns -- who lived to 100 -- smoked a cigar every day and died of cardiac arrest following a bathtub accident. Why not lung or throat cancer? No one knows.

There are all kinds of contradictory data and I'm not willing to deprive myself of anything unless the correlation between the suspect food source and cancer is so great that (like smoking) it can't be denied or unless rejection of the suspect food source is of no consequence to me. Changing to a non-iron based multi-vitamin and stopping the taking of 2000 additional mg daily of calcium tablets by me are examples of the latter.

As of yet, I've not heard of any "normal" food product -- as distinguished from various chemicals and additives -- that are "proven" to cause or promote the growth of cancer with sufficient certainly (although there are substances like calcium and iron that are highly correlated with it) that I need to stop eating them entirely and until I do, I'll continue to "pick and choose" the types of things that I'll eat -- even those associated w/cancer -- like eating cheese & yogurt or smoking a cigar -- with due regard for the potential risks.

I think that's all any of us can do, unless you choose to become a vegan (or a 90% vegan, if you think that's sufficient). Best wishes and regards . . .

Causes and effects
Swing,

I agree with you completely that no individual, specific food, vitamin, supplement, or herb will cause or cure cancer. What bothered me when I first began researching diet was the lack of any consistent, definitive data that showed any of these things actually had an impact. One study shows pomegranate juice lowers the risk of cancer, another says no impact. One study says Vitamen E lowers the risk of cancer, another says it was nothing more than a placebo effect. All of the doctors I initially consulted with tended to raise condescending eyebrows when I brought up the subject of diet or dairy on prostate cancer.

It wasn't till I read The China Study that it struck me that there is a fundamental fallacy in the studies conducted that look at a specific or individual food or supplement. If you take a typical cohort of American men who are eating average amounts of red meat, processed sugars, dairy products, and so forth and change a single variable in their diet (like say Vitamin D or Vitamin E) it became clear to me why none of the studies showed any conclusive evidence. The overwhelming impact of eating processed food, red meat from animals fed growth hormones and antibiotics and fattened in vast slaughter operations and fed corn instead of grass, dairy products, and so forth simply outweighed the impact of a single change in diet. Of course the studies had to have a control group where nothing changed and one where they changed a single variable (if you changed more than a single variable you can't tell what is the cause and effect).

It seemed to me that the only way you could validate the assumptions was to look at very large cohorts of people where one group was eating a "normal Western diet" and another was eating a plant based diet. That would be difficult to construct in America but in fact, that is exactly what The China Study did when it looked at a homogeneous population across China where certain parts of the population were primarily plant based and others followed a more Western diet. The results, at least to me, were startling.

There are always going to be outliers like George Burns or the billionare who made his fortune without ever graduating from high school. But although I'd like to be smoking a cigar and drinking martinis at 100, I think I have a better chance of getting there by avoiding the red meat, processed foods, and dairy that comprise so much of our diet in this country.

I wish I knew more. I'm doing a lot of reading. At least in the few months I've followed this course I've seen many positive impacts such as more energy, a gradual weight loss, improved blood levels relating to chlorestoral and other measures.

BTW, Swing, changing the subject here: There's a new 5-year CK study out on the original cohort of patients treated by Dr. King at Stanford and Freeman at Naples that you might wish to look at. Overall cancer free progression rates of 93%. No lasting rectal or urinary toxicity, and 80% of the men retained erectile function without the use of performance enhancing drugs.

You can see it at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21219625. Click on the free text link to see the complete paper.

Best to you,

K

bdhilton

Swingshiftworker said:

UCSF Dietary Recommendations
These are all of the dietary recommendations that I'm following based on my discussion w/the dietitian at UCSF and the thick 8.5"x11" booklet that I got from the UCSF Cancer Center.

Yes great teaching
Yes great teaching hospital…I had an uncle that taught surgeons there until his death a few years back….I have been posting this exact posting for some time and I am happy that you are finding or at least believing that diet will help you in your battle with this beast…Best to you

ob66

bdhilton said:

Yes great teaching
Yes great teaching hospital…I had an uncle that taught surgeons there until his death a few years back….I have been posting this exact posting for some time and I am happy that you are finding or at least believing that diet will help you in your battle with this beast…Best to you

Beautifully said bdhilton
In reading the back and forth of Kongo and Swingshift, I find myself in total agreement with Kongo's position, but I recognize that for those who need "absolute proof", it may not be there quite yet. For you to say "diet will help you in your battle with this beast" says it all for me. I am convinced to the degree that Kongo is, but at the same time admit that the proofs are not absolute. It is at this point that everyone must make their choices. If the sacrifices made in diet are too great I can understand why you would not want to make them. I, like many others, choose to make that change. I have read enough long term studies to believe in the dietary benefits. I wish my children and grandchilden ate this way, but right now they choose not to. I think time will change that, and certainly they are not change by affliction, but by more widespread data to support good diet.
I have just seen too many studies of people born and raised in Asia with low to no prostate/breast cancer. Those who migrate to America and assume our dietary ways experience the much higher incidences of PCa and breast CA. I choose not to go in detail but these are the conclusions that come up over and over. Absolute, probably no. Pretty impressive (scary), yes. We all have to make our choices...Cheers

hopeful and optimistic

Kongo said:

Doesn't matter
Ira,

Fresh ocean fish are certainly better than processed red meat but it still is animal protien. While some fish is good, when the percentage percentage of animal protien in a diet is increased, particularly protien from casein, above 15% then cancers will grow along with a number of other health issues. Please read The China Study which was a joint effort between Cornell University, Oxford University and China’s health research laboratory. The researchers gathered data on 367 variables, across 65 counties in China and 6,500 adults. The research was conducted over a 10 year period and was funded by both the Chinese and the United States government. Very comprehensive.

As far as physical changes, there certainly has been weight loss which my radiologist immediately noticed yesterday during a meeting with him. We got to talking about the China Study and he was fascinated. He then admitted that throughout his entire medical training at Harvard that he had a grand total of two nutrition classes and he indicated that was twice as much as most of his colleagues.

In this area we're on our own.

K

China Study
I skimmed the book, taking away that a heart healthy diet is what is needed to be prostate healthy...but based on your recommendation I will read the complete book.

Some points......sardines, salmon, I think mackerel and some others are a great source of Omega 3(I'm don't have my list of the good fishes available)...to my knowledge there is are no growth hormones in any these fishes, and I tend to believe that the benefits outway any negative effects, if any.

Dean Ornish, M.D. of "reversing Hearth Disease" fame has been involves in studies using the same dietary rules toward prostate cancer....which discusses modifiying diet , emphasizing being a veggie , exercise and relaxation......a couple of years ago, after about year or so, there was improvement noted in the small sample of participants, but not statistically valid....I have not checked lately to see if the study was extended, and if any new information has been added ...but I will and post on this.