"This is your Haitian divorce"

soccerfreaks

(Steely Dan reference)

It has been announced that Pat Robertson, self-proclamined diviner of god's will, has proclaimed that the people in Haiti have been so severely struck by calamity because some time ago, a long time ago, before Pat was even born, to say nothing of the Haitians who live or who have died in the past few days, sometime before today and days gone by, Haitians sold their souls to the devil in order to get out from under French imperialism.

Regrettably, there are people who believe Pat, else he would not be the rich charlatan and poor soul that he is.

I am being kind.

I am offended.

It goes on everywhere, even here: those who purportedly KNOW, despite themselves, they promulgate their ridiculous notions and people believe. The people in Haiti deserved it, gays are evil, rock 'n' rollers are the children of satan (or Santa). It goes on and on.

We are sadly less than we can be.

And I wish I was as smart as all of these idiots.

Marcia527

I don't know why the world
I don't know why the world is such a strange place. It's sad. I don't have the answers. If I did no one would listen anyway.

PhillieG

Also
It's why they have AIDS too. The "things" that come out of that man's mouth are just incredibly moronic. Jon Stewart had a great segment on his show the other night about what Robertson said where Stewart quoted passages from the bible about pain and suffering and asked if Robertson has ever read the book.

Not to be outdone on stupidity, good old Rush had this to say:
"Speaking on his radio show Wednesday, Limbaugh said the earthquake has played into Obama’s hands, allowing the president to look “compassionate” and “humanitarian” while at the same time bolstering his standing in both the “light-skinned and dark-skinned black community in this country.”

He added: “We've already donated to Haiti. It’s called the U.S. income tax.”

soccerfreaks

Marcia527 said:

I don't know why the world
I don't know why the world is such a strange place. It's sad. I don't have the answers. If I did no one would listen anyway.

That is a top post, my friend!

Take care,

Joe

RE

Charlatan
Joe I posted this on your blog but will post it here as well. Here are my two cents worth.

Charlatan, now I find that word to be far too kind for those who would claim these poor folks in Haiti are getting what is coming to them because of past wrongs. We were on a cruise ship quite near Haiti when it hit and I can honestly tell you there were many "believers" who were holding prayer vigils for these folks and not a one ever considered they deserved what was happening to them. Many were feeling quite guilty that we were out playing within a short distance of such a tragic event. Pat Robertson may have his followers, but there are many others who have a strong faith and are extremely insulted by his callous and less than Godly comments. All I can say is "SHAME ON YOU MR. ROBERTSON" and of course one day he will have to stand in the presence of his maker and explain why he felt so compelled to lead so many astray with such unkind and unjust statements. He most certainly has nothing to say that this believer is willing to listen to. For all who read this please know we do not all feel as Pat Robertson does and find that he can be an embarrassment at times.

In addition to the above Joe I think believers and non believers alike tend to prejudge even if we hate ourselves for it. I will admit to you that while on one of our flights three middle eastern men sat behind my guy and I for the 6 hour flight to Miami I was less than thrilled for fear they could be terrorists. I was immediately ashamed of myself and I lifted us all in prayer that we would all reach our destinations safely and I did pray for understanding and forgiveness for my gut emotions that wished these men were not on my flight or any flight for that matter. My fear eased and I was comforted, I even chatted briefly with them. Being human is hard sometimes.

RE

soccerfreaks

RE said:

Charlatan
Joe I posted this on your blog but will post it here as well. Here are my two cents worth.

Charlatan, now I find that word to be far too kind for those who would claim these poor folks in Haiti are getting what is coming to them because of past wrongs. We were on a cruise ship quite near Haiti when it hit and I can honestly tell you there were many "believers" who were holding prayer vigils for these folks and not a one ever considered they deserved what was happening to them. Many were feeling quite guilty that we were out playing within a short distance of such a tragic event. Pat Robertson may have his followers, but there are many others who have a strong faith and are extremely insulted by his callous and less than Godly comments. All I can say is "SHAME ON YOU MR. ROBERTSON" and of course one day he will have to stand in the presence of his maker and explain why he felt so compelled to lead so many astray with such unkind and unjust statements. He most certainly has nothing to say that this believer is willing to listen to. For all who read this please know we do not all feel as Pat Robertson does and find that he can be an embarrassment at times.

In addition to the above Joe I think believers and non believers alike tend to prejudge even if we hate ourselves for it. I will admit to you that while on one of our flights three middle eastern men sat behind my guy and I for the 6 hour flight to Miami I was less than thrilled for fear they could be terrorists. I was immediately ashamed of myself and I lifted us all in prayer that we would all reach our destinations safely and I did pray for understanding and forgiveness for my gut emotions that wished these men were not on my flight or any flight for that matter. My fear eased and I was comforted, I even chatted briefly with them. Being human is hard sometimes.

RE

"It's the time of the season"
Being human is easy, Re, when you think about it (or even if you do not). Being a good one seems to be the hard part. I say that with first-hand experience about the difficulties involved.

It is encouraging to see that the people of this country are stepping up, even in time of our own national malaise, to provide assistance. We do ourselves proud time and again.

Thank you, my friend, for reinforcing my belief that not all people of faith, christians in particular in this case, are thoughtless, profiteering charlatans or mindless zombies.

I knew that. I did.

Because of people like you, I knew that.

I did.

DennisR

Joe, you are probably the
Joe, you are probably the only person I know that pays any attention whatsoever to anything Pat Robertson says or believes, much less actually gives him credence or takes anything he says seriously, other than seriously ignorant, the guy's been a certifiable idiot for years. He certainly doesn't speak for the Christian Religion itself, or it's believers and shouldn't be quoted so often, or granted so much Media time to express his outrageous beliefs as though he were. Price we pay for living in a Free Country, I suspect. Freedom of speech, press, Religion, etc etc sort of thing, comes with the territory....and we all know the Liberal Media and it's followers never miss an opportunity to do a little Christian bashing.

Heck, not even the POTUS listens to Pat, and we all are well aware he spent at least half his life listening to Rev. Wright preach his poison, that fact alone should give you pause to think that maybe not all Christians are as gullible and easily led as you may like to insinuate they are.
I'm sure there more than just a few Christians and Christian Organizations over there in Haiti dedicatng their lives and resources to help those unfortunate people and probably more than just a few praying for them as well. In fact I personally know someone that's over there right at this moment doing exactly that, dedicating his life at no small risk to distribute food and medical aid to the Haitian people, most notably.... nearly all American food and medical supplies.
Are you aware that not a single Arab, or Muslim nation has sent any aid whatsoever...yet the silence is deafening.

soccerfreaks

DennisR said:

Joe, you are probably the
Joe, you are probably the only person I know that pays any attention whatsoever to anything Pat Robertson says or believes, much less actually gives him credence or takes anything he says seriously, other than seriously ignorant, the guy's been a certifiable idiot for years. He certainly doesn't speak for the Christian Religion itself, or it's believers and shouldn't be quoted so often, or granted so much Media time to express his outrageous beliefs as though he were. Price we pay for living in a Free Country, I suspect. Freedom of speech, press, Religion, etc etc sort of thing, comes with the territory....and we all know the Liberal Media and it's followers never miss an opportunity to do a little Christian bashing.

Heck, not even the POTUS listens to Pat, and we all are well aware he spent at least half his life listening to Rev. Wright preach his poison, that fact alone should give you pause to think that maybe not all Christians are as gullible and easily led as you may like to insinuate they are.
I'm sure there more than just a few Christians and Christian Organizations over there in Haiti dedicatng their lives and resources to help those unfortunate people and probably more than just a few praying for them as well. In fact I personally know someone that's over there right at this moment doing exactly that, dedicating his life at no small risk to distribute food and medical aid to the Haitian people, most notably.... nearly all American food and medical supplies.
Are you aware that not a single Arab, or Muslim nation has sent any aid whatsoever...yet the silence is deafening.

"Who'll stop the rain?"
(Credence Clearwater Revival reference)

Dennis,thanks for the viewpoint and for the update regarding relief efforts .

I do NOT give any credence to the buffoon but I do pay him attention, if only because he is a buffoon of enough credence to others that there are at least two monstrous edifices testifying to the ease with which he sucks people dry of their money standing along my local interstate highways.

Take care,

Joe

DennisR

soccerfreaks said:

"Who'll stop the rain?"
(Credence Clearwater Revival reference)

Dennis,thanks for the viewpoint and for the update regarding relief efforts .

I do NOT give any credence to the buffoon but I do pay him attention, if only because he is a buffoon of enough credence to others that there are at least two monstrous edifices testifying to the ease with which he sucks people dry of their money standing along my local interstate highways.

Take care,

Joe

Hey Joe,
I don't see ACORN
Hey Joe,

I don't see ACORN spending a lot of their hard-earned Free Government largesse over in Haiti either, come to think of it.
BTW haven't seen any of Pat's crew picketing around here, but we DID have a group of tea party volunteers standing around with signs that said Impeach Obama, and stop spending our Grandkids money, and stuff like that. Nice to see folks getting out and excersizing their rights to free speech in such a constructive manner, don't you agree...I honked as I went by to express my support.

See you later, Joe...take care...saw u on the chat room the other day

Dennis

soccerfreaks

DennisR said:

Hey Joe,
I don't see ACORN
Hey Joe,

I don't see ACORN spending a lot of their hard-earned Free Government largesse over in Haiti either, come to think of it.
BTW haven't seen any of Pat's crew picketing around here, but we DID have a group of tea party volunteers standing around with signs that said Impeach Obama, and stop spending our Grandkids money, and stuff like that. Nice to see folks getting out and excersizing their rights to free speech in such a constructive manner, don't you agree...I honked as I went by to express my support.

See you later, Joe...take care...saw u on the chat room the other day

Dennis

We are sadly less than we can be
I rest my case.

Hondo

Christian
Just because someone claims to be a Christian does not make them a Christian, I could say I am a Lion but one look at me and people will know that I am not.

The Bible said by there fruits you will know them. I am sadden when people say horrible things and use the name Christian because there is nothing Christ like about them.

PhillieG

DennisR said:

Hey Joe,
I don't see ACORN
Hey Joe,

I don't see ACORN spending a lot of their hard-earned Free Government largesse over in Haiti either, come to think of it.
BTW haven't seen any of Pat's crew picketing around here, but we DID have a group of tea party volunteers standing around with signs that said Impeach Obama, and stop spending our Grandkids money, and stuff like that. Nice to see folks getting out and excersizing their rights to free speech in such a constructive manner, don't you agree...I honked as I went by to express my support.

See you later, Joe...take care...saw u on the chat room the other day

Dennis

ACORN
Since when is ACORN a religion?
The Obama comment is too ridiculous to even answer.

DennisR

PhillieG said:

ACORN
Since when is ACORN a religion?
The Obama comment is too ridiculous to even answer.

Sorry Phil,
didn't know the
Sorry Phil,
didn't know the Haitian catastrophe was supposed to be a Religious topic only....and the POTUS comment was only to show that intelligent people can differentiate between the sometimes outrageous statements made by individual speakers and decide for themselves what the truth is and which statements are relevant, accurate, truthful, or represent
their personal beliefs.

mariam_11_09

Hondo said:

Christian
Just because someone claims to be a Christian does not make them a Christian, I could say I am a Lion but one look at me and people will know that I am not.

The Bible said by there fruits you will know them. I am sadden when people say horrible things and use the name Christian because there is nothing Christ like about them.

I feel that way about

I feel that way about Muslims who commit crimes in the name of Allah! Many will go through the motions of being a Muslim but have never surrendered to Allah.

It is sad that religions often end up being judge by people, particularly the ones with the worst actions rather than see the religion for its true value.

PhillieG

DennisR said:

Sorry Phil,
didn't know the
Sorry Phil,
didn't know the Haitian catastrophe was supposed to be a Religious topic only....and the POTUS comment was only to show that intelligent people can differentiate between the sometimes outrageous statements made by individual speakers and decide for themselves what the truth is and which statements are relevant, accurate, truthful, or represent
their personal beliefs.

Touche
It's not just a religious topic Dennis although that is what started the thread.
Do you ever watch shows like the 700 Club or other TV ministries?
I have watched them, although I can not watch too long with finding them so absurd and phony yet the "churches" and arenas are packed and I hope that the phone lines are dead but I do not think they are. PT Barmnum said it best.

It shouldn't concern me because I see what they do but I do feel sorry for people with little who give it to those with plenty and are just preying on and not praying for people. I do care in that I do like to see people get suckered.

Didn't PR try to be a POTUS?
Yes, under the guise of the Moral Majority which turned out to be neither (thank God!)

One other quote Dennis:
George W. Bush, who was president did pull the God card in his reasoning as to why we needed to invade Iraq.
"Nabil Shaath, Palistinian Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."
Source: BBC

Hondo

mariam_11_09 said:

I feel that way about

I feel that way about Muslims who commit crimes in the name of Allah! Many will go through the motions of being a Muslim but have never surrendered to Allah.

It is sad that religions often end up being judge by people, particularly the ones with the worst actions rather than see the religion for its true value.

Believe it or Not


There is a lot that Christians and Muslims have in common as they are both from the same seed. The ones who Love, Love with all there heart, and the ones who hate, hate with no compassion.

You are correct in saying that we are all judge by the actions of a few.


Take care and keep posting

DennisR

PhillieG said:

Touche
It's not just a religious topic Dennis although that is what started the thread.
Do you ever watch shows like the 700 Club or other TV ministries?
I have watched them, although I can not watch too long with finding them so absurd and phony yet the "churches" and arenas are packed and I hope that the phone lines are dead but I do not think they are. PT Barmnum said it best.

It shouldn't concern me because I see what they do but I do feel sorry for people with little who give it to those with plenty and are just preying on and not praying for people. I do care in that I do like to see people get suckered.

Didn't PR try to be a POTUS?
Yes, under the guise of the Moral Majority which turned out to be neither (thank God!)

One other quote Dennis:
George W. Bush, who was president did pull the God card in his reasoning as to why we needed to invade Iraq.
"Nabil Shaath, Palistinian Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003.

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

Abu Mazen was at the same meeting and recounts how President Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state."
Source: BBC

No Phil,
I don't watch those
No Phil,
I don't watch those TV Ministries though I admit I did like the Rev Billy Graham, I'm not real sure how much money he made in the Ministries though, and didn't follow his preachings very closely. I'm not particularly aware of any serious scandals or outrageous statements he may have made either, but I suspect I'm about to hear about some soon. Probably right here on this forum.

I also don't think GWB had any monopoly on claiming Moral or Religious reasons for taking the actions he deemed necessary given the facts of the situation as he knew or understood them, seems to be a fairly common theme and ploy of Political leaders from the beginning of time and appears to make no difference whatsoever whether they actually believed they had some inside track to the Divine or not. Most Politicians, at the very least, do claim to have similar Moral convictions, but we can only guess as to exactly where these so called Moral obligations ideas originate. Possibly from childhood religious teachings and experiences, I suspect, and which are no longer Politically Correct to associate themselves with.
I guess, in a certain way, I have to credit GWB with staying with his personal convictions and staying true to his beliefs, regardless of whether I agree or don't agree with his actions. He's no longer the POTUS and it's theoretically well within the powers of the current POTUS to make all the changes to GW's policies he wants to given that he has the majority in the House and Senate, and of course, the claimed Moral Responsibility to do so.

Marcia527

DennisR said:

No Phil,
I don't watch those
No Phil,
I don't watch those TV Ministries though I admit I did like the Rev Billy Graham, I'm not real sure how much money he made in the Ministries though, and didn't follow his preachings very closely. I'm not particularly aware of any serious scandals or outrageous statements he may have made either, but I suspect I'm about to hear about some soon. Probably right here on this forum.

I also don't think GWB had any monopoly on claiming Moral or Religious reasons for taking the actions he deemed necessary given the facts of the situation as he knew or understood them, seems to be a fairly common theme and ploy of Political leaders from the beginning of time and appears to make no difference whatsoever whether they actually believed they had some inside track to the Divine or not. Most Politicians, at the very least, do claim to have similar Moral convictions, but we can only guess as to exactly where these so called Moral obligations ideas originate. Possibly from childhood religious teachings and experiences, I suspect, and which are no longer Politically Correct to associate themselves with.
I guess, in a certain way, I have to credit GWB with staying with his personal convictions and staying true to his beliefs, regardless of whether I agree or don't agree with his actions. He's no longer the POTUS and it's theoretically well within the powers of the current POTUS to make all the changes to GW's policies he wants to given that he has the majority in the House and Senate, and of course, the claimed Moral Responsibility to do so.

I have to butt in here and
I have to butt in here and state that I respect Billy Graham. I don't follow his preachings either but he appears to be sincere and doesn't appear to be getting rich off of his followers. I read an article about him several years ago and I think his heart is in the right place. I never heard any outrageous statements either.

No comment on politics. Other then it hasn't changed. Look back in history and politics has always been dirty. Even back in Washington's day. Not that George Washington was, but others. So I try to stay out of it.

PhillieG

DennisR said:

No Phil,
I don't watch those
No Phil,
I don't watch those TV Ministries though I admit I did like the Rev Billy Graham, I'm not real sure how much money he made in the Ministries though, and didn't follow his preachings very closely. I'm not particularly aware of any serious scandals or outrageous statements he may have made either, but I suspect I'm about to hear about some soon. Probably right here on this forum.

I also don't think GWB had any monopoly on claiming Moral or Religious reasons for taking the actions he deemed necessary given the facts of the situation as he knew or understood them, seems to be a fairly common theme and ploy of Political leaders from the beginning of time and appears to make no difference whatsoever whether they actually believed they had some inside track to the Divine or not. Most Politicians, at the very least, do claim to have similar Moral convictions, but we can only guess as to exactly where these so called Moral obligations ideas originate. Possibly from childhood religious teachings and experiences, I suspect, and which are no longer Politically Correct to associate themselves with.
I guess, in a certain way, I have to credit GWB with staying with his personal convictions and staying true to his beliefs, regardless of whether I agree or don't agree with his actions. He's no longer the POTUS and it's theoretically well within the powers of the current POTUS to make all the changes to GW's policies he wants to given that he has the majority in the House and Senate, and of course, the claimed Moral Responsibility to do so.

TV or not TV
Hi Dennis,
Just to clarify things, I do not think ALL TV ministers or ALL ministers or ALL of anything can be said. There are plenty of good honest people out there doing good things, some may be affiliated with a church or religion and some many not be. Good is good, Bad is bad, it's non-denominational or religion related to me at least. I think the world might be better off with more Billy Grahams out there.


GWB certainly followed his personal convictions and stayed true to his beliefs. I'll leave it at that and let the facts speak for themselves.

PhillieG

Marcia527 said:

I have to butt in here and
I have to butt in here and state that I respect Billy Graham. I don't follow his preachings either but he appears to be sincere and doesn't appear to be getting rich off of his followers. I read an article about him several years ago and I think his heart is in the right place. I never heard any outrageous statements either.

No comment on politics. Other then it hasn't changed. Look back in history and politics has always been dirty. Even back in Washington's day. Not that George Washington was, but others. So I try to stay out of it.

Say it Ain't So Marcia
Marcia, you wrote "Look back in history and politics has always been dirty. Even back in Washington's day. Not that George Washington was, but others. So I try to stay out of it."

I believe that's all the more reason we ALL* need to stay involved in politics.


*even those who vote for the wrong person!
;-)

Marcia527

PhillieG said:

Say it Ain't So Marcia
Marcia, you wrote "Look back in history and politics has always been dirty. Even back in Washington's day. Not that George Washington was, but others. So I try to stay out of it."

I believe that's all the more reason we ALL* need to stay involved in politics.


*even those who vote for the wrong person!
;-)

Phil, Phil, Phil
Ok, I'll explain my statement. I do vote. I just don't get into the drag-down-dirty arguments. Arguments raise the blood pressure and doesn't do much else. I'm not much of a debater anyway. Have you noticed how short my posts are. :>)

I read John Adams biography and Thomas Jefferson's biography. It's interesting to see how two people saw the same thing so differently. And how things haven't changed.