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Lost < (less then) sign

Posts: 222
Joined: Jun 2016

I am 4 years post RP (11.2.2016) and I lost less then sign last July.

My doc ( men's health specialist) who is monitoring my PSA and Testosterone is always ordering ultra sensitive PSA (3rd generations).

befor, it was always <0.006. Last July becomes 0.006 and yesterday it was 0.007.

Neither my doc nor am I concerned about this. That is still way less then <0.1 which I consider still undetectable.

i am not on TRT and still taking Clomiphene 25 mg daily. My Testosterone yesterday was 597.

In RP aftermath and not being able to recover my sexual function, I change my healthly eating habits that I practiced all my life till 53 and started enjoying life while eating steaks, burgers and fajitas very often and having glass of red wine almost every evening. I realize what I was missing eating mostly plants and legumes with very little meat. I never smoked and drink any alcohol until i was 53.

iI would like to get opinions from other people. Please, just don't criticize me for switching to normal food.




lighterwood67's picture
Posts: 293
Joined: Feb 2018

Like some of us, I eat very little red meat.  I have not for years.  When my wife and I go camping, we splurge.  We eat and drink anything we want to.  Neither of us smoke.  She will have a beer or 2 when we camp.  I do not drink.  We do keep an eye on our weight and lipid panel.  When I started this journey, I decided that I would keep quality of life in front of me.  All I can say in this plain of existence, we can do anything in excess that will eventually show up in our bodies in some form or another.  I say do what you want to do.  Based on what I seen in other posts of yours, I would say that you will do the best thing for you (your words "started enjoying life").  So, good luck on your journey.


Posts: 688
Joined: Jun 2015

Hi MK,

The levels that you are reporting are very low and in fact considered by many to be undetectable.  There is a Cowpers gland that does produce a small amount of PSA, it could be the cause. I know when I had my surgery they left my Cowpers gland in my body.  If it was me I would keep an eye on your PSA tests and see if they do continue to rise.   Test results of .006/.007 are very, very low and hopefully will not rise much higher.

Dave 3+4

VascodaGama's picture
Posts: 3356
Joined: Nov 2010


I forgot your age but I assume it to be 57. I am curious on that to formulate my opinion in this thread because age can be used in judging the kind of life style, one may be more or less active.

You leaved a smile in my face for the comment of “normal food”. I wonder why it took you 53 years to consider steaks, burgers and fajitas as “normal”, probably declassifying all the other “healthy eating” you were accustomed to. In my opinion diets are all good if balanced with the life style one follows and according to the needs as we age or when some sort of micronutrient (supplements, etc) is missing for the proper functioning/metabolism of our systems.

The interesting aspect in your post is that you have followed healthy eating habits before contracting PCa which most of us think it as the best to counter the initiation of cancer. In other words, your PCa case may have derived from the lack of steaks, burgers and fajitas.

The word “Diet” comes from the Greek “diaita” that means “Way of Life”. I believe that we should try balancing food with physical activity (no matter its style) and follow a balanced diet incorporating all sorts of ingredients including those we are less attracted to. There will be always the one we love more. Just do not stick to a solo type of diet.

I was curious in knowing about the supplement/drug you are taking, the Clomiphene, which in regards to prostate cancer issues, is controversial. Clomiphene can be thought as an inducer in the production of testosterone, similar to synthetic-forms of TRT, but involving endogenous testosterone (produced by the testis). The drug is known to increase the levels of T in circulation. Your high T of 597 ng/dL could be the result of this supplement. Can you please substantiate the reason that took you to this drug. Have you experienced hypogonadism in the past? When did you start taking it?

Congratulations on the continuing remission levels.



Posts: 222
Joined: Jun 2016

Thanks Vasco for your reonse.

i was diagnosed with prostate cancer and had RP at age of 51. Just recently turned 56.

My RP was in 11/2016. Before RP I was very energetic, excercising regularly and leading healthy lifestyle.

After RP, I felt miserable, lost all energy, struggled to excercize and lost interest in all things I loved to do.

In January 2018 while went for check up with new urologist ( new insurance), I mentioned how I felt after RP and he decided to check my Testosterone levels. My Testosterone came up 217 and rest of testosterone panel was badly messed up. Since I had prostate cancer and RP,

he decided to put me on Clomiphene. For the last year my T was fairly stable (553 - 597) Dosing was changed multiple times but for last 6 months I was alternating 25 mg one day next day 50 mg. With my T around 600, I feel pretty much as it was before RP. I run / walk daily, stationary bike at home and my weight is very stable 215 lbs 185 cm high despite change in diet.i am still active soccer referee.

My men's health specialist who is monitoring my Testosterone and my PSA is saying that he will keep my on Clomiphene as long as it works for.

Also said, that way is way less dangerous for prostate cancer survivor then TRT.

Posts: 385
Joined: Mar 2017

On my UK forum the experts there say three digit measurements are useless below 0.1 and two digits are only a broad guide.

The error rate at these levels is huge.

Trend is all.

As I will find on Tuesday :)

Max Former Hodgkins Stage 3's picture
Max Former Hodg...
Posts: 3648
Joined: May 2012

Mk, with a result like 00.007, you could be a secret agent or huge Hollywood star.    The difference between .006 and .007 is "no difference whatsoever."    It is WAAAYY into what is regarded everywhere as undetectability.  PSA more than one digit to the right of the decimal will drift randomly, even on the same day.  Ignore it.

If you've been a vegan until 53 years of age, eating a normal diet now statistically cannot hurt.  Humans are genetically and evolutinarily omnivores, and meat is a nature food source for us.  As regards causing PCa, if you have no prostate, that is 100% impossible.   Plus, there is no strong or definitive evidence linking meat consumption to PCa anyway;  men whop are vegans get it as often as men who live on fast food. Coronary artery disease is a very long-term thing for people who do not have genetic defects, so I doubt it increases your risks in heart health in any way.   If you were to live to, say, 75, that would not be long enough for a moderte diet including meats to clog an artery. Alcohol in moderation actually reduces the liklihood of coronary event, due to the blood-thinning effect.   Smoking is always bad for everyone.   Don't do it.  

Your PSA results are fantastic,

VascodaGama's picture
Posts: 3356
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi again, 

MK, your life style couldn’t be better.  A soccer referee runs a lot.  Probably in one game you run the double of the average player which runs about 10 km (7miles). I like the way you are commanding your PCa case. 

I agree with cushions comment above that the 3rd generation PSA is not necessarily the best. I prefer two decimal places (0.XX ng/ml) for RP guys. However I would understand your doctor's willingness in checking PSA variations  as earlier as possible because of the use of the Clomiphen.  The bandit lives and survives on androgen cocktails and this drug provides them freely. I hope you are vigilant and stops taking the Clomiphen if the PSA shows constant increases.  Thought I understand your reason to feel better with higher testosterone but in your shoes I would try taking it intermittently. Say; three months on, three months off, or longer. That is the principle in hormonal treatments to extend the bandit's dependency providing control. 

I wonder if your doctor is the same person that recommended you B17 4 years ago.

Here is the link to our previous thread;


It wouldn’t surprise me if one day you  referee a game with Cristiano Ronaldo.  Most probably he will move to a team in USA in a few years.




Posts: 222
Joined: Jun 2016


I am too old for such high intensity professional soccer games. In my referee carrier, I had referee licences from 2 different countries. One was in Europe and other one is US soccer federation. Being 56, i am even too ood for college games. But iwe have plenty of other leages and plenty of games to officiate. Being in Texas means a whole lot of soccer al year round.

I am not concerned about my PSA and taking Clomiphene as long as it keeps my Testosterone between 500 and 600.

After RP I felt miserable for 2 1/2 years. Enough is enough. I am taking risks.


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