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Lifestyle changes

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I got a letter from the urology clinic. They have reviewed my case and will give me an appointment. They will contact me six weeks before the appointment date.

I don't have money to see a urologist privately so I will just have to wait. Actually I don't really mind (as long as it IS a slow growing thing) since it gives me some preparation time.

I have decided to make myself as healthy as possible while I am waiting.

I have been eating a low carb diet for about 18 months and my type 2 diabetes is gone. My health is now quite good in all areas except for the kidney tumour. I haven't felt better since my twenties.

I have done some one, two and a couple of three day fasts and found them quite easy to do. I am going to do them a bit more often in coming weeks and perhaps try a longer fast.

What I will not do is take any strange supplements, though I am open to suggestion. Maybe a little more turmeric in my food...

I'll let you all know how I go.

Steve.

Abunai's picture
Abunai
Posts: 173
Joined: Oct 2016

Not a supplement guy myself.

I've done low carb, off and on, for years. It helped me loose over 100 pounds at one point. I'm still 80 pounds down from my heaviest.

I have started eating more anti-angiogenic foods though. Some of them don't fit the induction phase of a lot of low carb diets, but I've never seen a person get fat eating apples and the like, so why not? ;)

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I avoid fruit because it raises my blood sugar, which is a bit sad... But not really a big deal.

My appointment with the urologist will be December 7th, so I have 5 weeks to get healthy(er).

Steve.

hardo718's picture
hardo718
Posts: 853
Joined: Jan 2016

including turmeric fairly regularly.  I also take, at the recommendation of my uro/onc, a pure cranberry capsule daily but that may be due to the fact that I've always been prone to UTI's. 

Yes, kidney tumors tend to be slow growers, but I personally wouldn't wait too long about that appointment. 

Lastly, may I ask why the extended fasting?  Can't imagine why throwing your body into a starvation mode is of any advantage.  Respectfully, please educate me on the benefits of this, if there are any.

Thank you,

Donna~

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Here's the idea. When you stop eating, your body must get what it needs from storage.

Our energy needs are met by fat burning. Our small glucose requirements are met by converting the leftover glycerol from fat burning and also by conversion of some protein.

Amino acid requirements are also met by using up a small amount of protein each day.

The body supplies some of this by recycling old and sick cells. That is the idea.

So, while you are fasting you use up fat and less important protein and I hope that includes recycling the material in cancer cells.

A modern proponent of fasting is Jason Fung, a Canadian nephrologist. His interest is diabetes, not cancer, but his videos and blogs are interesting.

My own thinking is that it can't hurt, it might help, it is something I want to try just for curiousity, and I don't know what else to do.

Steve.

APny's picture
APny
Posts: 1987
Joined: Mar 2014

Since you're diet and health conscious I assume you exercise. I really prepped for my surgery by going on the treadmill twice a day for 30 minutes each time. I did this for three weeks. I'm convinced it helped my lung function and recovery period. As for supplements, I just take vitamin b12 since I'm prone to anemia and that's it. Not big on supplements either. No quality control, no idea where they come from, no regulation, I don't want to take the chance with them. At best they'll do nothing but at worst they can harm you. But that's just me, of course.

Since you're low carb I assume it means increased protein. Is that good for the kidneys?

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Actually, I don't measure any food so I can't say how much protein I eat. Low carb is not necessarily a high protein diet though. It seems mostly fat and green vegetables and certainly doesn't require a lot of meat. Consider greek salad. A little cheese with a lot of salad with lots of olive oil.

I am not a scientific eater. I just avoid anything sugary or starchy and let dietary instincts take care of the rest.

One thing I have just found out is that my low carb diet does not prevent a kidney tumour though I most likely had that for longer than I have been low carb. So I need to change something.

A few years ago I had some protein in my urine due to diabetes but the low carb diet fixed that and all of my blood test results are perfectly normal, including kidney related results.

The one exception is cholesterol, which is high.

Steve.

 

 

APny's picture
APny
Posts: 1987
Joined: Mar 2014

Cholesterol is probably high from the fat content of the diet. But honestly, i'm convinced that if you try to fix one thing it just screws up another, lol. I just use common sense when eating and not overdo any one particular thing. As for the kidney tumor, you could have done everything right and still get one. The major risk factors are being African American, overweight, smoking, family history and being male. I'm none of the above yet still got it. I think we tend to blame ourselves that if we only did this, or only didn't do that, we wouldn't have got cancer. I don't think it necessarily works that way. But being health and diet conscious is certainly a good thing.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I think you're spot on regarding the cholesterol. If I am burning fat for energy it has to be moved around the body in vldl particles which will ultimately become ldl. That is my understanding.

I am stll overweight in spite of 18 months of low carb. My BMI is just under 30. I have not been very strict with low carb otherwise I would be much lighter already. 

rae_rae's picture
rae_rae
Posts: 300
Joined: Oct 2010

I used to do low carb, in the long run my cholesterol was even higher and I felt worse. I switched to a whole food plant based way of eating and I've never been healthier. check out the Starch Solution. It was an eye opener for me. It's not vegan, it's plant based and zero artery clogging oil, which is one of the most highly refined processed foods out there. I used to believe the more olive oil the better. Not anymore. I'm done feeding my body garbage and expecting it to not get sick. Let food by thy medicine.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Hi rae_rae,

Low carb has worked well for me so far, but I have type 2 diabetes.  Last time I visited a doctor he said 'with these results we can't really say that you have diabetes.'. If I start eating starchy food I am sure that my blood sugar will go through the roof again.  I know Dr. McDougall says that he can fix people's diabetes with his diet but I would rather stick with what is working for me now.

Having said that I will certainly be adapting my eating patterns in future. I will most likely eat more plant food than I do now. I don't want to follow anyone else's agenda. I just want to find what is right for me.

What I know for sure is that eating processed 'food' is a path to destruction. Almost everything I eat is fresh.

But lately I have been experimenting with fasting. My last meal was breakfast on the 1st of November (and a small snack that afternoon) so I've gone 9.5 days without food. It is a lot easier than I was expecting. 

Steve.

todd121's picture
todd121
Posts: 1427
Joined: Dec 2012

I can't say I understand how that would be good for your body, especially if you may have cancer. Your body needs nutrients to keep your immune system up. How does starving yourself help exactly? Are you taking vitamins at least?

I know very little about this, but I've never heard anybody suggest a long fast like this is healthy for your body.

Best wishes,

Todd

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I gave my reasons above. But I suggest you google 'health benefits of fasting'.  You'll get a lot of hits.

One big reason I am interested is simple curiousity. People have been fasting for thousands of years or more likely for as long as humans have existed.  Having ample food available 24/7 is definitely not the normal human condition.  Possibly all of our chronic diseases come from eating too much food and eating the wrong kinds of food.  On the other hand calorie restriction has been shown to have benefits.

Some researchers are studying the effect of low blood sugar on cancer. They don't claim that it cures cancer but it seems to slow it down. Fasting is the ultimate low carb ketogenic diet because all of your energy comes from body fat.

I have no idea if any good will come of it but I am sure there will be no harm.  Compare that to chemotherapy. Quite often no good comes of it but it always causes harm.

I will keep you all informed.

Steve.

sblairc's picture
sblairc
Posts: 586
Joined: Feb 2014

I recall reading about extended fasting lowering breast cancer risk. One can always do extended natural fasting by not eating after a certian time before you sleep and after you get up. There's a reason why your first meal is called "break fast." I try to do this since I'm prone to headaches if I don't eat regularly. But after reading about fasting and breast cancer, I thought this sounded like a good option. 

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I've been doing something similar for over year. I make breakfast my main meal of the day, snack in the afternoon then no more food until the next morning.

It's good for type 2 diabetes to do this kind of fasting, which is how I got interested in it.

By the way, I had two minor heart attacks in 2008/2009 and got stented each time. So... Heart disease, diabetes and cancer. Do they give out prizes for a perfect score?

Actually the kidney mass has not yet been identified so maybe I don't qualify.

Jojo61's picture
Jojo61
Posts: 1310
Joined: Oct 2013

This is all quite interesting... Amazing that you don't feel weak at this point. Please do keep us posted.  Take care! 

Hugs 

Jojo 

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Actually, I do feel a little weak. I was walking for 2 or 3 hours each day but I have cut that back a lot.

Apart from that I feel fine. I am mentally alert.  But as soon as I feel bad I'm breaking the fast.

Jan4you's picture
Jan4you
Posts: 1326
Joined: Oct 2013

INFLAMMATION is the enemy for all chronic/terminal diseases.

Tumeric is anti inflammatory supplement. You will FEEL better.

CANCER survives on SUGAR. So food feed the cancer FIRST.

A lot to think about in the battle against monster C.

Jan

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I have some tumeric but I'm not eating any food to mix it with. I think my inflammation levels are low from my low carb diet. If I get a scratch, for example, it heals with minimal inflammation.

There's something I've never understood about cancer. A cancer cell is dysfunctional. It is sick and broken. Why does cancer so often defeat everything that is thrown at it? It should be weak, not strong.

Jan4you's picture
Jan4you
Posts: 1326
Joined: Oct 2013

Steve, I take tumeric in a tablet form.

inflammation is not only internal, but affects the brain's ability to assist other systems/organs.

Stress alone leads to inflammation, then add diseases on top of that stress..

Hugs, jan

todd121's picture
todd121
Posts: 1427
Joined: Dec 2012

They are dysfunctional, but the body's immune system doesn't recognize them as dysfunctional. That seems to be the place things break down. There are several systems in the body that monitor for foreign cells and bad/dead/dysfunctional cells and are supposed to attack those cells. In the case of cancer, the body's immune system fails to recognize these bad cells and doesn't take action.

The progress that has been made in fighting kidney cancer has come in 2 areas. The first attacks those bad cells' ability to build a blood supply for themselves. As the cells form a mass, they need additional blood supply and somehow they even get the body to build them an extra blood supply to feed them. These are the so-called anti-angiogenisis drugs like votrient, sutent, etc. The second area there've been a lot of advances (more recently) is in the area of helping the body to identify the bad cells so the body's immune system can identify and attack them.

I'm not aware of any studies that show that adjusting the blood sugar within normal limits has any effect on cancer growing in the body. The body is pretty good at keeping blood sugar levels within a range of acceptable limits regardless of diet (unless you're diabetic). Where the sugar idea has popped up is in labs where they noticed that certain types of cancer metabolize sugars faster than other cells. Some imaging scans use radio-isotopes tagged to sugars to help identify tumors (PET scans, for example).

Is anybody aware of any actual studies on patients with active cancer that fasting helps reduce tumors or slow the spread of tumors?

Best wishes,

Todd

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Researchers seem to be investigating ketones more than blood sugar. Search youtube for 'Angela Poff targeting cancer with therapeutic ketones' and you'll find a very interesting talk.

I think that all cancer cells need a lot of glucose, not just some of them. But apparently certain types of cancer cells, to varying degrees can get energy from other sources.

While there is a limit to how far I can lower my blood glucose, I certainly don't want it to be high. That is surely a cancer promoting environment. Since I am diabetic my blood sugar can go very high and stay high for a long time if I eat carbohydrates. Just before starting on my low carb diet my blood glucose was often over 20mM (360 mg/dL).

My blood sugar has been quite low for the past 2 weeks. My average is about 3.3mM (60 mg/dL) and my lowest so far was 2.6 mM (47 mg/dL). If I was a type 1 diabetic I would be running for the jelly beans!

Steve.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

For another interesting talk search youtube for 'Ron Rosedale Early Ancestral Connection'.

About 5 minutes into the talk he explains how cells evolved. Very interesting, especially to us.

I'll give you my summary. When cells first formed they had no mitochondria and their only energy source was from fermentation. There was no oxygen in the atmosphere so their environment was anaerobic. These primitive cells reproduced endlessly and never died.

 Then bacteria appeared that generated oxygen. At some point some oxygen burning bacteria were incorporated into cells. This was the origin of mitochondria. They produced energy much more efficiently and this allowed the cells to form multicellular organisms.

This fits well with Thomas Seyfried's idea that cancer is a disease of damaged mitochondria. Mitochondrial damage causes cells to revert to their primitive behaviour, which is to reproduce endlessly.

True or not it does make perfect sense.

Steve.

sblairc's picture
sblairc
Posts: 586
Joined: Feb 2014

Nope. But there are some related to decreased risk of developing cancers in the first place I think (breast for sure I recall)

Footstomper's picture
Footstomper
Posts: 1238
Joined: Dec 2014

But this sounds rather dangerous and not supported by science.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Fasting might not help the tumour but it is not dangerous. I am in perfect health apart from the kidney and overweight. I'm not at risk. Actually I have lost 8 kg in 2 weeks and my bmi is still over 27.

Anyway... I will let you know what happens.

I'm editing this post to agree that fasting is potentially dangerous. But I am not at high risk and I am being careful.

Abunai's picture
Abunai
Posts: 173
Joined: Oct 2016

At one point, back in the early 2000s, I weighed 330 pounds and decided to try the Atkins diet.

I adhered strictly to the diet and lost 130 pounds in a couple of years time and got in pretty good shape. My blood pressure went down, my cholesterol numbers were great, I was doing 5K runs every week, etc. Since about 2008, my weight has crept back up (still 80 pounds below my heaviest) because I haven't been nearly as strict, and I drank a LOT of Diet Dr. Pepper after being totally bored with several years of nothing but water.

Now, after discovering my cancer, I've read about the angiogenic (and anti-angeogenic) approaches to nutrition...including now the ketonics focus. One of the Atkins practices to determine if your diet was effective in the "induction phase" was to use ketone urinalysis sticks to determine whether or not you were in "ketosis"....i.e. burning fat for fuel as opposed to sugar.

So, it's interesting to me that my cancer was possibly growing inside of me while I was on a strict, low-sugar, low-carb diet. It most definitely was growing inside of me during my 2 to 3 liter per day Diet Dr. Pepper phase for years. I'm not making any conclusions here, just rambling about my personal, anecdotal experience.

I'm contemplating going back to a strict adherence to Atkins.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I've been low carb since February 2015. I have also been lax at times. I assume my kidney tumour was there before this and a low carb diet obviously did not make it go away.

Going for a day without food every now and then works very well with a low carb diet.  It seems to act like a reset getting you back on track. It's also a good antidote for any extra carbs you eat.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

By the way, losing 130 pounds is a great thing. I'm down about 60 from 2 years ago, including what I've lost in the last 2 weeks. But I'll gain some of that back.

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

I am breaking the fast. I went for a walk earlier and didn't feel right. So I bought some V8 veggie juice on the way home and sipped a couple of mugs of it. It tasted really, really good. So that's the end of that except that I need to choose a healthy diet to follow it up and make it worthwhile.

Steve.

Thuvia
Posts: 7
Joined: Nov 2016

Steve... May I suggest something like a 40/35/25 macronutrient balance? Carbs, fat, protein. This way you're getting well balanced but not too high on the carbs. I suggest this because you are trying to lose weight (I am too-need to lose 15 more and then hold it) I'm 5'2", 140 pounds right now. I've lost 48 pounds in the past year. Went sugar free a year ago and lost the bulk of it then. My kidney cancer was found by accident after I had a adverse liver reaction to Prometrium... a female progesterone. Caused jaundice and sky rocket triglycerides. All normal now.  Snowballed from there. Went lower carb, and now in high sight I think my protein intake was too high. My fatty liver has been mostly reversed by the weight loss and THAT is excellent news!

My Urologist has referred me to a Nephrologist next week and also a Registered Dietician. The key for me will be keeping calories at about 1200-1300, and the above macronutrient. And keeping sugar intake low. I felt so much better with the low sugar!

 

Steve.Adam's picture
Steve.Adam
Posts: 460
Joined: Oct 2016

Because of my t2 diabetes it's best for me to keep carbs as close to zero as possibly. They can't be entirely eliminated, of course. Even when fasting my blood glucose stayed quite constant, though a little lower than normal. I've decided to lower my protein to minimal levels too and see how I go.  I find measuring this stuff a bit too tedious, so I'll just be eating smaller servings of meat and more or less playing be ear.

What that all means is that I'll be eating a lot of salad drowned in olive oil, I guess.

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