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Diet & Exercise study - Viewpoint from Sloan Kettering Onc

peterz54's picture
peterz54
Posts: 345
Joined: Feb 2012

During a Q&A on CRC, Dr Saltz discussed findings about the value of diet and exercise for Stage 3 patients. Probably applies to all Stages.

Start at minute 8, unless you want to listen to entire discussion.

">Colon Cancer - Diet & Exercise - Sloan Kettering

joemetz's picture
joemetz
Posts: 493
Joined: Nov 2011

thank you for sharing this video... this was very helpful.

I wish i would have watched this two years ago!!!

Coppercent
Posts: 158
Joined: Jan 2012

Glad to know others are suggesting the same things. When my oncologist and I met a year ago for our first visit he suggested diet change and exercise. He told me to make sure I scheduled in an hour of exercise a day which I did because he has a great reputation and I have a lot of respect for him. Some of my day is office/desk work and he said to never sit more than an hour without getting up and walking or standing. He said the best thing for treatment was to stay as active as I usually do. Which honestly contradicted everyone else telling me I was supposed to be resting and taking it easy! Glad I listened to my doctor!

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

That's the best good news video I have seen in a while.
I feel vindicated about my commitment to exercise and diet over the last 2 years.

An hour's exercise s day and the prudent diet. The onc said high fibre low fat, no milk fat.

I know my vegan / macrobiotic experiments are extreme, but it's crystal clear that what you eat has a significant bearing on our survival.

I will look at the study.

Gee diet and exercise proven beneficial. I feel very pleased I have trusted my research and not listened to my onc, who says diet and exercise still don't matter.

So many stage 3 lives lost because this simple message was not pushed by once, even can over a year ago would not recommend diet and exercise.

I will do another post on the walking posts

Thanks for sharing this amazing news, even the lack of comments tells alot.

Here is the simplest life saving news, so few a willing to invest the effort to change lifestyle

Its dam hard, it takes commitment and strength of purpose.

So the silent majority who told me and a few others it's not proven.

I have been so criticised here, for being fanatical about diet and exercise. That these and my other alternatives are just my desperate fear of dieing from this curse.

Well I suspect those of us here not willing to accept the lifestyle treatment option are free to. But I would hold back from letting your own personal inability to change stop others.

I just feel so vindicated, I am proud of my lifestyle changes. I am confident I have done my best to attain as much health after ignoring my health.

Massive lifestyle change is easy step by step day by day with support. My exercise focus had heaps of support from peep and so many others.

I am so grateful to everyone who posted on the walking post. Everyone who has ever visited our forum would have likely seen it.

I kept diet out of it, because it was so aggressively attacked.

I always tried to post about diet separate to exercise.

Enough said by me, I am not exercising as much as I want too because I have too work now. But for my first 2 colorectal years
I had the ability time and money and motivation to make the best treatment choices.

Hugs,
Pete

peterz54's picture
peterz54
Posts: 345
Joined: Feb 2012

Pete, I am at the point now that if I hear a physician discount the value of diet and exercise I simply discount them - they are either uninformed or have an agenda...peter

Kathryn_in_MN's picture
Kathryn_in_MN
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sep 2009

I did all my life(and continue) to follow his recommendations pretty closely. I am a pesco vegetarian (with a little white meat poultry). I do eat yogurt and eggs (he did mention staying away from animal fats in dairy - not sure how he feels about no-fat or lowfat Greek yogurt). I could not eat my normal diet during chemo - way too sick and could only keep a few things down, but other than that, this is how I eat and always have. These are the same things that have been presented to me by my medical team since my diagnosis. I wonder why people have different experiences elsewhere? I finished my first set of treatment spring of 2010 and was involved in some studies on diet and exercise. It has always been recommended to me to get 1 hour of moderate exercise 5 days a week, and to eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables, whole grains and proteins, but low in red meats, and to avoid processed foods as much as possible.

Dr Salz says he does NOT agree with vegan or macrobiotic diets. He DOES agree with a diet high in fresh fruits and vegetables, high in fish, (and poultry is ok too) and whole grains. This is what the studies show, and this is the difference in the Japanese diet he refers to - they are not vegan or macro's, they are mostly pesco vegetarian (with poultry). He also says moderation is key - if you want to enjoy a steak once in a while, that is ok. To me this is COMMON SENSE, and I can't believe anyone would argue against it. Processed foods and lots of red meat are not good for our bodies on so many levels. If you went back to the basics before industrialization, no one ate red meat every day. The hunters caught what they could, and often it was a treat to have meat. People lived on what they could grow, and it wasn't refined and put through so many processes and didn't have chemicals added to it. While I do not eat red meat (it has never agreed with me in taste or digestion), I do not think that someone that eats a small portion of red meat once or twice a week is hurting themselves. I also don't think that someone that has a bowl of ice cream once or twice a month is hurting themselves. But those that eat these things every day are putting themselves at much higher risk for heart problems and cancer. Just like smoking cigarettes, or drinking excessive alcohol. It doesn't have to be an "All or none" approach to changing diet. COMMON SENSE is what is required. BUT - this does NOT mean you won't ever get cancer, and it doesn't mean you won't have a recurrence just because you do eat well. I am a prime example of that. But that doesn't make me wish I'd eaten red meat and junk food - my body doesn't feel well or function well on that crap - if you listen closely to your body, it will tell you what is best.

The exercise is common sense too. And we aren't talking drastic changes here either - just walking at a brisk pace for one hour 5 times per week has been shown to have the SAME benefit as those who exercise more than that. It is those that exercise LESS than that who are at risk.

Maybe I'm not aware of how awful some people's lifestyles are, but to me none of these are drastic changes for anyone - they are easy enough for anyone to do, with a tiny bit of motivation. Avoid McDonald's or hot dogs, and instead have a piece of grilled salmon or chicken breast with some vegetables. Want a snack? Grab a banana or veggie sticks instead of cookies. Use whole grain pasta and brown rice instead of the whites. Have some hummus instead of ranch dressing if you need to dip your veggies. It isn't rocket science. It is common sense and not that difficult. And it doen't hurt if you eat something that isn't a "healthy" food here and there - moderation is key!

peterz54's picture
peterz54
Posts: 345
Joined: Feb 2012

it should be easy, or at least not difficult....yet 1 of 3 adult americans is obese.

We already know, as a society (USA), or should know, that our fast food culture feeds into many diseases states, not just cancer. We keep eating the garbage.

as for Dr Saltz - I don't think he is an expert on the diet issue, but at least he is putting this information out in his own way. I have see other presentations, one by NYU Cancer institute, which had similar advice, and seen simliar research (on cancer patients) as well. What I don't see in my limited experience with my wife is an emphasis on diet and exercies and weight control by the physicians involved. I wonder how many physicians push their patients to change eating habits and to get out and walk or be active

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

lifestyle change is mount everest challenge for most, most doctors won't go there.

it makes conventional medicine to challenging.

the alternative doctors on the other hand, well its their bread and butter.

basically if i don't follow most of the alt doctors recommendations re diet and lifestyle they tell you to pee off. my alt doctors have hundreds of patients queued up around the corner. and very few pork chops in the alternative queue.

its survival of the fittest in the 21st century. noones got any guarantees, our cancer challenges so unique. i maybe completely wrong but i am doing what i think is best for me.

but a walk and some carrots, that sounds like fun in the sun. as long as you don't stop off at the fast food. i just think fast food, fast death. i have thought that so many times i have no desire whatso ever to eat any of their rubbish.

I kind of sorry i am so extreme, but its just the way i am.

hugs,
pete

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3642
Joined: Apr 2010

I don't think anyone has massively attacked diet, it's the coffee enemas the relentless trying of unproven and possibly dangerous supplements, the total giving your life over to the thought of cancer that you veer into that gets you comments that you don't care for.
A NUTRITIOUS diet is always good,(I haven't heard one person say it wasn't) but one doesn't have to go strict vegan to do that, the stress alone of trying to do your regime with diet, supplements, etc., per your blog would undo the most normal of person.
Exercise is always good, haven't heard anyone say it that wasn't either, I think that your onc may have been a special case, hope you found another. My onc after it was decided I was going to live despite my cancer, recommend a nutritious diet and exercise, especially my primary family doctor, he's always been recommending that, darn right pushy he is.
Amazing the amount of exercise I can fit in between working, school and babysitting my grandchildren, were you exercising 8 hours a day? I get in a couple a day myself, I actually find it easy to do, besides walking in the wild, I put on the earphones, put on my fav music and dance the time away, fantastic exercise. As for diet, well, I admit, I enjoy eating good food and I do admire those that can eat the right amount of veggies a day, I keep trying, yet still fail to do that well, I'll keep working on it though.
No reason to really feel vindicated, I think most of us know that a nutritious diet and exercise are good for us. We just don't feel that going to the most extreme measures possible is the healthiest or wisest way to go.
Winter Marie

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

dear winter,

massive attack is an understated, those attacks are on the public record.

i will not bother to dredge them up.

the top class us onc warning is crystal clear and you still don't get it.

the word you don't get is prudent ?

this means if you want to live, if you don't want to be stage 4, if you want the best chance have a prudent diet.

no red meat, the steak a fortnight is a concession, you are better off without it.
no dairy,
no sugar,
no no no just get rid of the SAD, the standard american diet.

or alternatively

eat fries, burgers and coke and feed the tumour. it smiles when you want into macdeaths.

just my opinion. extreme well, some say yes.

i think chemo, radiation and surgery are extreme options. And I know i have done them all and that was enough to last me a life time.

if my alternatives can save me, then so be it.

please don't tell me how to feel. i still feel completely vindicated. this onc little speech backs up my exercise and diet.

its the tip of the iceberg, you just weight a little longer, the cancer world is about to change and not a minute to soon, enough lives have been needlessly wasted.

enjoy your food, if you have to have it, the guilt is the worst feel.

but if you are strong anough to be really healthy , then you are giving your body the best chance to be healthy. i am. thats all.

i will not revisit the sugar wars.

the vast majority here were warned of these dangers by myself and many others.

our thanks was criticism, it still is.

who is the we in "We just don't feel that going to the most extreme measures possible is the healthiest or wisest way to go"

i am taking the conservative road in my approach in my opinion, what most you guys do scares the bjesus out of me. sucking down chemo, some radiation, not detoxing, not rebuilding your guts, not exercising to put on muscle. and so on etc etc etc.

even the immune systems role was questioned here, when its clearly stated by this onc it has a role in surviving our cancer.

my approach may appear extreme, but remember my first folfox shot, i was just another chemo bunny like everyone else here. we were all folfox virgins once.

its late, i am tired. but this is to important to let slide in my opinion.

i am as relentless as my cancer, maybe i hope just a little more. then i will prevail. i will, am having fun trying.

i hope we all have fun and prevail.

hugs,
Pete

ps humility is saying ok, i was wrong, you were right. thanks for the few thousand posts about life saving valuable alternatives. guess what if i was right about exercise and diet. maybe its time we all had another enema discussion, the science is compelling! only joking. or we can talk about tcm. now tcm is almost mainstream now days. at least at a few places around town. sweet dreams winter, thanks as always for helping me get my confused thoughts out of my head. i always appreciate your comments even if we don't agree. hugs again!

herdizziness's picture
herdizziness
Posts: 3642
Joined: Apr 2010

you did say "prudent" in our terminology that means "nutritious", not going crazy off in supplements, strict vegan, etc., it means prudent. Your supplements regime is over the top, some of it I dare say is probably not safe. And the "we" would be most of us, hence most of "us" haven't gone to the extreme, I don't think anyone has gone to your extreme.
And yes dear, I enjoy my nutritious and prudent food, along with some deserts, life is short, and I'm going to be busy enjoying it, working in it, and not watching every bite that I put in my mouth,I don't want to spend my life in the kitchen grinding my wheat grass, spending hours sorting through my tons of pills; calling them healthy supplements because I believed the latest carpet bagger. My body couldn't handle the stress of all that, and the onc recommended less stress in life. And sugar, yep, not knocking it completely out of my life, red meat? Yum, the protein is good for me too, dairy products, Yep, especially the vitamin D milk, strange how my vit D levels are fantastic and I don't have to take supplements for it; must be that good milk?
And I'm not against Vegan diets, heck no, I'm just pointing out that a non-vegan diet is PRUDENT and nutritious as well. For instance last night I had grilled salmon, grilled asparagus tips (marinated in herb, garlic and vinegar)and brown rice with herb and garlic, not the McDonalds you seem to want to accuse us of eating. But by golly if I wanted a McDonald's burger (which I dislike and wouldn't)but if I wanted one, I wouldn't feel any guilt occasionally having one, it isn't going to make my cancer worse or better for having indulged upon occasion. The point I'm making is EXTREMISM, we don't have to go there, it's probably not good for us physically or mentally or dare I say even financially. And extremism, makes a person point out that their diet is the only diet, or their regime is the only regime, and then informs anyone that eating a McDonald's burger is looking at death. That my friend is extreme and uncalled for. We're all fighting cancer, don't make personal choices of food a battle, it's one that we don't need. Your idea of vegan diet is good for you, my idea of a prudent and nutritious diet is good for me. I don't tell you that the vegan diet is going to result in your death,as you do others for eating a McDonald's burger, I do HOWEVER mention that the supplements you take and the things that you are doing in your fear of cancer may do some harm to your body, and perhaps you should think again before doing them.
And we've all been right about diet and exercise Pete, you don't win any kudo points on that,(you do get them for doing it for yourself) and the "we" is all of us, because all of us "Americans" have been taught about nutrition and exercise all our lives, it's nothing new, it's just whether we do it or not, and I can't believe, if we Americans have been taught about diet and exercise, that the rest of the world has been amiss, I'm betting Canadians, British, Germans, etc., know about it too. I just want you to realize in America, we are all aware of the value of nutrition, our government even provides a chart on what we should be eating, it's amazing what we Americans know.
Hugs,
Winter Marie

janderson1964
Posts: 2215
Joined: Oct 2011

Thanks for sharing this. Very encouraging. At the very end he does say "this is true for metastatic cancer as well as early stage cancer"

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

hugs,
pete

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