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Article from Dr. Lenz

lisa42's picture
lisa42
Posts: 3661
Joined: Jul 2008

Hi,

I thought you all might find this article by Dr. Lenz interesting.
Here it is:
--------------------------------------

Why Do the New Drugs Fail in Adjuvant Chemotherapy?
Posted: 24 Mar 2011 09:50 AM PDT
Some of the most surprising data presented at the GI Symposium in January 2011 in San Francisco was the negative result of the European trial called AVANT.

Dr. HJ Lenz
In that clinical trial patients who underwent a curative resection for colon cancer received either FOLFOX or FOLFOX with Avastin® (bevacizumab) treatment after their surgery. Chemotherapy was given over 6 months, but patients who were randomly selected for Avastin received 6 months with chemotherapy and additional 6 months alone after chemotherapy ended for a total of 12 months of Avastin.
In our annual ASCO meeting in Chicago in 2009, we heard the results of an American trial (C-08) showing no benefit in patients who received Avastin in this setting, however there an interesting finding that during the 12 months Avastin was given there was a potential benefit. The European AVANT trial showed very similar results. Avastin did not improve outcome in patients who underwent a successful surgery for their colon cancer. There was again a hint of benefit during the time of Avastin therapy.
What does this all mean? After the negative data with Erbitux® and now with Avastin, we are coming to understand that drugs which work for metastatic disease may not have the same effect in patients who have only microscopic disease. The way these drugs work may be completely different if there only cells left or a tumor which has different infrastructure such as its own blood vessels and has overcome the defense of the immune system.
We need to get smarter and develop specific therapies for these patients and find out why the tumors in these patients come back. What makes colon cancer cells survive in some patients? How do some patients kill left over colon cancer cells?
We are back to the drawing board going beyond the pathology report to make treatment decisions but needing to understand the genetic make up of these cancers.

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Hey Lisa, at the risk of sounding dumb, but you are into the holistic, juicing etc. Do you believe in drinking water with baking soda added to increase alkaline in your diet?? I've started looking into alternatives to help, and came across an article .... seems kinda simple!! Does this make any sense to you??

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Here is some of the science:

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

Here, in a nutshell, are a few basic facts that I believe anyone with a solid background in chemistry or physiology would concur with:

"Ionized water" is nothing more than sales fiction; the term is meaningless to chemists.
Pure water (that is, water containing no dissolved ions) is too unconductive to undergo signficant electrolysis by "water ionizer" devices.
Pure water can never be alkaline or acidic, nor can it be made so by electrolysis. Alkaline water must contain metallic ions of some kind — most commonly, sodium, calcium or magnesium.
The idea that one must consume alkaline water to neutralize the effects of acidic foods is ridiculous; we get rid of excess acid by exhaling carbon dioxide.
If you do drink alkaline water, its alkalinity is quickly removed by the highly acidic gastric fluid in the stomach.
Uptake of water occurs mainly in the intestine, not in the stomach. But when stomach contents enter the intestine, they are neutralized and made alkaline by the pancreatic secretions — so all the water you drink eventually becomes alkaline anyway.
The claims about the health benefits of drinking alkaline water are not supported by credible scientific evidence.

HollyID's picture
HollyID
Posts: 951
Joined: Dec 2009

Now, I could be wrong (and I usually am) but I don't think I'd do baking soda. I think it would elevate your sodium too much. I'd go with what Scouty did and put in lemon juice. It's a win-win situation. Kidneys love the citric acid and it won't up the sodium level in your body.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Thanks for sharing! This is a good reminder that there are no simple answers.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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Joined: Jun 2010

Double post

smokeyjoe
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Joined: Feb 2011

I thought I read something on Scouties thread about alkaline vs. acid and cancer hating alkaline environment.

scouty's picture
scouty
Posts: 1976
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I have no idea what Buckwirth is talking about because you can change the chemical pH of anything if it is mixed with another product that has a different pH. I have never researched those ion water thingies you can buy so I have no opinion but water filters are very different from squirting something in your water. Soda, beer, wine, liquor, etc etc are made from water but all have an acidic pH balance. Water is naturally neutral to start.

I always thought it was pretty interesting that citrus products that you think would be acidic are actually alkaline to your body.

I squirted (and still do) fresh lemon juice in my water to alkaline it. Never looked into baking soda. You know what a cool experiment would be for you to do (and then you can tell all of us the result). If you've gotten any of those pH testing, you could test and see for yourself. I think my baking soda is grey in color (very old) or I'd test it myself.

Lisa P.

Erinb
Posts: 295
Joined: Apr 2010

Ok My husband did this for three months scan to scan. His scan looked great, but his CEA went up a bit. His body ph would stay right around 7-7.5. When he would get chemo it would really knock the ph to 5-6 for a few days. He took the baking soda with maple syrup- It was worth a try, but nothing magical happened to make the cancer go away. We still watch ph but limit the acidic foods rather than drink baking soda.
Erin

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

So, for his blood work prior to chemo. treatments they would check his ph??

Erinb
Posts: 295
Joined: Apr 2010

No We checked ph just for the heck of it. The ph strips can be purchased at a health food store. If an alternative can't hurt and isn't expensive-why not see what or if anything makes a differnce in CEA numbers. Just don't try to change too many variables at once HA HA

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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Joined: Jun 2010

Here is the way Alkaline and Cancer is played out in the Alt universe:

http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/cancer-prevention-measures.htm

Cancel(sp) Cells Cannot Thrive In An Alkaline Environment

At a pH slightly above 7.4 cancer cells become dormant and at pH 8.5 cancer cells will die while healthy cells will live. This phenomenon has given rise to a variety of treatments based on increasing the alkalinity of the tissues, treatments such as vegetarian diet, the drinking of fresh fruit and vegetable juices, and dietary supplementation with alkaline minerals such as calcium, potassium, magnesium, cesium and rubidium.

When taking calcium supplements you should know that calcium in the form of calcium citrate, calcium malate, calcium ascorbate and calcium orotate is more easily absorbed than calcium carbonate.

And here it is in the world of science:

http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/1603redothis.html

Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense

Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

Have you seen advertisements for products such as coral calcium or alkaline water that are supposed to neutralize acid in your bloodstream? Taking calcium or drinking alkaline water does not affect blood acidity. Anyone who tells you that certain foods or supplements make your stomach or blood acidic does not understand nutrition.

You should not believe that it matters whether foods are acidic or alkaline, because no foods change the acidity of anything in your body except your urine. Your stomach is so acidic that no food can change its acidity. Citrus fruits, vinegar, and vitamins such as ascorbic acid or folic acid do not change the acidity of your stomach or your bloodstream. An entire bottle of calcium pills or antacids would not change the acidity of your stomach for more than a few minutes.

All foods that leave your stomach are acidic. Then they enter your intestines where secretions from your pancreas neutralize the stomach acids. So no matter what you eat, the food in stomach is acidic and the food in the intestines is alkaline.

Dietary modification cannot change the acidity of any part of your body except your urine. Your bloodstream and organs control acidity in a very narrow range. Anything that changed acidity in your body would make you very sick and could even kill you. Promoters of these products claim that cancer cells cannot live in an alkaline environment and that is true, but neither can any of the other cells in your body.

As others have stated, do the research and make up your own mind.

Here are sites that I find trustworthy:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/11570.cfm (Sloan-Kettering)

http://www.mdanderson.org/education-and-research/resources-for-professionals/clinical-tools-and-resources/cimer/therapies/alphabetical-list.html (MD Anderson)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ (a listing of all published research)

I also find when doing a search to add the words quack, snake oil, or skeptic to the search. It separates out a lot of the trade magazine and sales sites, so you can at find a site that does something other than just cheer-leading. Alt is a $23B dollar business, and much of its sales occurs over the internet. Getting past the sales pitches can be quite daunting. (it will be pointed out by someone that Pharma is significantly larger, and they do have a web presence, but it is not even close to being the primary sales vehicle for them.)

lisa42's picture
lisa42
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Sorry for butting in here- I just realized I misread what you said and was going to say otherwise & was about to delete the start of my reply, but you can't do that on this site, unfortunately (you said you read soething on scouties thread about alkaline vs acid and cancer hating alkaline environment. I thought at first that you said the reverse.) Supposedly cancer thrives in an acidic environment and hates the alkaline environment, so going along w/ this theory, it would be beneficial to make your body more alkaline.

Don't know if it affects the alkalinity of the blood or not, as buckwirth mentioned, but I definitely know that what is eaten/drank definitely does affect the acidity/alkalinity of the urine and saliva.

Lisa/Scouty- I enjoyed talking with you today, too!! :)

Cheers,
Lisa **This was meant to go right under Smokeyjoe's post of I thought I
read on Scouties post... somehow, it didn't get put in the right
order!

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scouty
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Enjoyed talking today and again I am really pleased with your successes so far and expect you to have gazillions more!

Knowing that avastin is a target chemo, meaning it can tell the difference between a health cell and a cancerous one and that it attacks the blood vessels to mets, this does not surprise me and I'm a little stunned that it surprises them. But at the same I find it fascinating that the blood source/sources of metatisized tumors can be effected while the blood source/sources of the primary tumor can't aren't. I find that very interesting and hopeful.

Thanks for sharing.

Lisa P.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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I think they were hoping that by preventing the growth of new blood vessels the microscopic cancer would not be able to settle and form a tumor. Obviously the tumor cells figured out a a work around (I always feel weird suggesting a cell can think, but I don't know a better way of expressing it).

I actually find it encouraging that Avastin has now been turned down for two types of treatments (Metastatic Breast Cancer and Adjuvant CRC). It does tend to deflate the argument that Pharma gets whatever it wants. At $48k for a full treatment, that is a lot of money that won't be paid out to the shareholders of Genentech/Roche.

On PH, I am not saying you cannot change the PH of a liquid, just that drinking said liquid will not change the blood PH (it will change the urine PH, but that is different). Modern biology says the body does not work that way, and I have posted two sources for the science.

No disrespect for your opinions are intended, and I will happily review any science you have that shows this to be incorrect.

Yours,

Blake

scouty's picture
scouty
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Blake,

What you seem to think is fun, I think is unhealthy and unproductive.

Since I avoid negative energy whenever I possibly can and with your repeated call out threads, personal attacks, and just debbie downer/negative nancy replies in general I'm done. Sure wish this site had a hide or ignore button but I'll just have to do it the old fashioned way.

Lisa P.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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You know that is a violation of the T&C's. Just flag my post and if Greta agrees with you it will be deleted. If I do it too many times I will be banished from the site.

That said, I don't think you will find a post where I made a personal attack.

Sorry that you find challenging replies to be debbie downer (very funny btw).

I am not sure I would want to live in a world where no one challenged me, and where every fancy I happen to believe is true because I say it is. I do admire your courage in taking the steps you took seven years ago, and I am sorry for you that your world is so fixed.

Erinb
Posts: 295
Joined: Apr 2010

DITTO! (That's 90's teenage talk for I agree with Lisa)

lisa42's picture
lisa42
Posts: 3661
Joined: Jul 2008

Hi,

I have never looked into putting baking soda into my water, although I have heard about it. My ND (naturopathic dr) has me checking my acidity/alkalinity every morning with ph strips. You can check it in the first urine of the morning (but I always forget) or the saliva. The ideal ph for saliva vs. urine is slightly different- I don't remember what, but know if you're checking it out that they are different.
I have always heard that cancer thrives in an acidic environment. There are certain foods to avoid if you want to make your body a more alkaline environment. Supposedly meat (beef especially) is acidic. Just by cutting out coffee, my ph test strips are showing a lot more alkaline lately. I am working on that.
Yes, I have purchased bottled water that is supposedly more alkaline than other waters. Is it a scam? I honestly don't know, but I'm trying it anyhow. Perhaps adding baking soda to the water would be better, but I don't know- I will be looking into it. You do have to be careful about too much- I think too much baking soda could also be detrimental. That's not based on fact, just what I've heard.

So far as links that have been posted here by buckwirth or perhaps others on occasion to show articles that debunk this theory or other supplements and/or herbs, well for every article and/or study proving one thing or another, well there always seems to be as many articles and/or studies on the other side proving the opposite.
I for one, always like to look at the source of who is doing the study and try to figure out what their purpose of doing the study is. Some are out to prove things and others are out to do studies to try to disprove the same things.
When testing certain supplements, it should always be checked to see if the tester is using the supplement/herb or whatever it is in the way it is recommended. For example, if a certain herbal tea is supposed to be steeped in boiling water for a certain extended amount of time and then taken on an empty stomach (just as an example), then it would be an invalid study if that particular tea was studied without being prepared and taken as it should be. So, some of the articles and/or studies posted very well may be valid, but they may not be- so just check things out that you read carefully.
Some things haven't had studies done on them (because there's no money to be made on many of the herbs/supplements, which is why you'd never see a pharmaceutical company studying an herb- maybe only if they had a way to tweak it into a chemical and then charge more for it). Yes, a lot of what gets put out there about cancer and health is based on MONEY, not on what is good for us! On the contrary, yes there are charlatains out there who will try to sell you their natural "cure" and it is really a bunch of hogwash. Just because there are scammers and charlatins trying to take your money does not mean that all supplements and herbs are no good.
Use common sense people- research for yourself! But also listen to people who can show you what good results they've gotten! I don't know why it took me almost 3-1/2 years to listen to people who have gotten over cancer naturally, but perhaps it is just because I've become more desperate lately. Does that make me a hypocrite if I didn't do these natural things earlier? Maybe, but I don't care- people grow, change, and evolve in their thoughts and beliefs. I am an ever changing person and I am open to listening to alternatives. I respect my oncologist, but I will not make him into a all-knowing god- no-I now find it interesting that my oncologist is learning some things from ME! He seems to be impressed with how my bloodwork is improving, my platelets are no longer dropping too low, and I am no longer anemic. I can only accredit that to the natural changes I've made because there isn't anything else that I've done differently.
That, to me, says way more than articles or trials that are trying to debunk what I am doing. Will I say ok some article says that stuff doesn't work, so I'm just going to go on eating all the sugary junk food that I once did? NO! Have I allowed myself a couple of treats from time to time? Yes. But for the most part, I am eating 90% better than I was prior to about 3 months ago!
Ok, I'm rambling now- but I just find it upsetting that every idea that is presented as something that might possibly help people is being shot down on this board lately every time by a link to an article debunking it.
People- use your brains and follow your hearts! And this- please don't judge others for trying things that you may not choose to do. I'm not putting anyone down who doesn't want to try some of these different things, but I also feel that people should be able to share ideas without being shot down every time.

Lisa

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Do we or don't want to look at the research? Should everything anyone says be taken at face value? How is that "using your brains"?

One user posted the benefits of Turmeric, and said that it was a booster for chemo. Sloan-Kettering points out that the current recommendation is that Turmeric should not be used when in Chemo.

What was the the source for the original poster? That Turmeric can have a boosting effect for chemos no longer in use because their side effects outweighed their benefits, and that by being able to use those particular chemo agents in lower doses with turmeric maybe they could be brought back. It was a chemical specific test, and saying that it applied to all chemotherapy agents was irresponsible.

The number one cause of Cancer in the first world today? Obesity. So a better diet is to be commended, and eating healthy will do no harm.

I am sorry that you find contrary information disturbing, but we cannot just say everything works, and if someone asks a question it is fair to get answers from both sides if there is some kind of controversy.

Here is what I will promise. I won't put up anything that I do not personally believe to be solid fact. I won't question science where the science is not questionable. In this case biology is, well, biology. I don't make this stuff up, the body works the way it works.

Have I ever told someone to stop what they were doing (exception- where it can cause current harm such as turmeric)? Have I called anyone names or passed judgement on them? I know I have asked that some give credit to their surgeons, but I never saw that as passing judgement, and I can tell you that whole post was me blowing steam about a user who does not have CRC but comes here often with what I consider to be really bad advice.

Hope that helps, and I hope you don't hate me for doing just this: "use your brains and follow your hearts!"

lisa42's picture
lisa42
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Blake,

I did google turmeric and chemotherapy, which I have also done before. You are right in that there are several articles talking about how turmeric can inhibit the apostosis of cancer cells while being taken with the chemo cisplatin. It talked about how it can be a problem with breast cancer (because breast cancer patients are generally who take cisplatin). I then found another article, interestingly, that in head and neck cancers, turmeric can actually boost the effectiveness of cisplatin.

I discussed these finding with my oncologist. He felt because there were many studies showing the benefits of turmeric as an anticancer agent but that because it could possibly interfere with chemotherapy, he felt the timing of when it is taken is what is important. One of the articles i read also mentioned something like that.
He has me stopping all supplements 24 hours before I get an infusion and not resume them again until at least 24 hours has passed after getting unhooked from the 5FU pump.

So, that is the advice I've been following as of late.

It certainly is not that I don't want to see research, it's just that I think by posting one article is not fair when there may be other articles or studies that state things differently. I want to look at all the sides. That definitely does make things confusing, but then at least we see the different sides, who's done the research, how, what their angle or bias might be, etc.

Lisa

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
Joined: Nov 2010

Hi lisa,

I am doing the same thing with supplements around chemo. especially laying off tumeric supps until 17th april as its last chemo day.

I loved your answer,

Pete

tanstaafl's picture
tanstaafl
Posts: 1292
Joined: Oct 2010

"Turmeric should not be used when in Chemo"
Sounds like dangerously overgeneralized advice. Even if turmeric were shown by actual trial to be conflicted with some particular oxidative poison, like platinum, that result could not be logically extended to 5FUs, gemacitabine, irinotecan, RTK inhibitors, beta glucans, or several HIF, VEGF, COX2, EGF and platelet inhibitors.

My contempt grows for organizations that bend over backwards to accomodate disasterous pharmaceutical side effects and contraindications for expensive drug souffles, while supposedly stumbling and stuck dead by the simplest supplement consideration that can even be found anywhere, even if irrelevant.

lisa42's picture
lisa42
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wish there was some way to eliminate a post when it goes double, but oh well!

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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And when the site is slow it is so easy to make that mistake!

Love2Cats's picture
Love2Cats
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Joined: Dec 2010

I just had to discontinue my Avastin, because it probably caused the blood clot(s)that I am dealing with now. I have had my resection surgery, so now I feel better about having to stop the Avastin, and just continue on with Folfox.

Regarding the controversy on the boards, I tend to not like negativity either, and at first I did get that feeling from Blake, but after I got used to the way that he speaks, I don't perceive him as meaning to purposefully come off as negative. He just is very direct when he speaks, doesn't sugar coat anything, and that is just his style/nature. I personally would rather gather as much information from both sides, in order to make a more educated choice. But, still I do understand why people perceive it as negativity, because I for quite awhile I did too.

When I first started reading his posts, he instantly reminded me of a cartoon character named "Glum" from the Gullivers Travels cartoon...you know that guy that always said "we'll never make it" Here is a snippet from the cartoon for those of you who never saw it. Blake I hope you are not offended, it is all in good fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g&NR=1

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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And my style is direct, though I try to add a bit of sugar from time to time ;)

I want an oncologist that tells me my odds of living 5 years is are about 10%, but if we do x we can raise those odds to 15%. Be honest, don't sell me hope. Recently I had a discussion about quality of life with my Onc. Should I be blessed to reach NED was it better to do mop-up, in the hope of buying an extra 6 months, or to take a break and spend my gained time now. What good is an extra 6 months if it is all spent in treatment?

He actually got a little excited. Most of his patients don't want to have that conversation. Front end vs back end and quality of life. It was a good talk.

So, thanks for posting the Gulliver reference.

Blake

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Just wondering where you have mets now?? Have you had new mets pop up or are they basically in the same place when you were first diagnosed??

lisa42's picture
lisa42
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Smokeyjoe,

I think you are asking me- I have had new mets in my liver and lungs along the way- I had my liver resected in May '08 & now I have 4 spots in my liver so, yes, I have had new mets pop up. I also had a recurrence in my rectum at the original tumor site. I have not, however, had new tumors pop up in any new sites since my original diagnosis. It was already profusely throughout my liver and lungs upon my diagnosis in Aug. '07.

Lisa

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Thanks for all your information Lisa, (actually both Lisa's) you are TRULY an inspiration. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of this :( So, far I have no mets to lung or liver that show up on CT scans, hopefully the chemo is working and I will remain this way.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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My last scan showed great improvement at most of my lymph sites, but my original tumor and one lymph lit up the scan.

Long story short, on 1-10 they took out the rectum and gave me a permanent colostomy.

Since then, no treatment and no scans. Next scan is May, treatment decisions to follow.

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Wow, that seems like a long time inbetween scans and treatment.....I thought they did scans every three months....

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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My surgical wound is only really healing now, and I am scheduled for a trip to Europe mid May, so we decided the best time for the scan is just before leaving and starting treatment upon return.

The surgeon took a good look around when he had the camera in me, so my Oncologist is OK with this plan.

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
Posts: 3908
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if you sail through chemo, the six months of treatment maybe better.

i just found my onc's so chemo focused and they should be , but not aware of other alternative supports that are complex in themselves.

if you get those odds mate then cheat a little with whatever suits to move into the 15% group. surely the stage4 odds are are way better now with erbitux and the long term remissions.

pete

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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This is a long thread. What exactly were you responding to?

pete43lost_at_sea's picture
pete43lost_at_sea
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sorry its not next to it

Pete

Kathleen808's picture
Kathleen808
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Hi Lisa,
We talked to Dr. Lenz about this at Dick's appointment on Monday. He basically said the same thing as the article. That both Avastin and Erbitux are often effective in metastasized disease but not Stage 3 disease. He said that they don't know why yet but that is what the research shows.

Thinking of you and always praying for you.

Aloha,
Kathleen

Nana b's picture
Nana b
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I believe people who believe in the use of supplements should be able to exchange ideas without someone coming on and rebutting everything one says. Just let those that want to share information have their conversations. Pleas feel free to ask a question or share information. Just don't say that it's all *******,

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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Joined: Jun 2010

You will see that is exactly what I did. I even posted information saying it was beneficial.

Not sure what word you used (CSN automatically * certain words) but I did not use it.

For those using urine to check blood PH:

Next time you are getting a blood test, ask for PH levels. See if they match what you believe they are.

Btw,

How was Disneyland?

Nana b's picture
Nana b
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Joined: May 2009

Wasn't pointing a finger...

Disneyland was fantastic! We had a great time! Thanks

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
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A few miles away. Used to watch the fireworks from our front lawn in the summer.

Did you make it to the beach? I know the weather was a little cool, but even in winter our coast can be beautiful.

plh4gail's picture
plh4gail
Posts: 1238
Joined: Oct 2010

Hmmm.....love and hugs to you Lisa!....your Central Cali buddy, Gail

P.S. you hang in there like a trooper!!

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

How do you deal with your feelings when all seems so overwhelming.... I'm putting together a gift for a friend, drink tray with coasters where you insert your own personal photos....doing this project, printing the photos, I got overwhelmed, and started to cry uncontrollably, memories from before all this mess, happy carefree days all gone .....feel like I'm having an anxiety attack....this was something I purchased to give her for x-mas, we were supposed to meet for dinner but I ended up in hospital and the diagnosis. Now, moving forward seems so hopeless. Physically I feel wonderful, look great, no one would know I am ill. Mentally I feel I just cannot cope!!!

lisa42's picture
lisa42
Posts: 3661
Joined: Jul 2008

Hi,

Coping with all that having a cancer diagnosis entails isn't easy. It doesn't really seem to matter what stage a person is- I know someone who was stage I but was completely devastated and fell apart upon her diagnosis. I will not be one to judge someone based upon how bad or good their outcome is supposed to be. We are all different and we react to things differently. Some people even have a delayed reaction a ways down the cancer road. How do I personally cope? Well, like I said, it's not easy, but I do talk to a lot of people. I can't tell you how much coming here on the CSN site has helped me. Also, I have met some friends- a couple through CSN and a couple just through other people- & these women all have my same kind of cancer. We talk on the phone a lot and email back and forth. Nothing is taboo to talk about- we talk about it all- all that is involved with cancer, chemo, plus also about our families, feelings, and other people around us.
You need someone to talk with- someone who really has been there.
If you haven't discovered anyone from CSN who lives near you, I'd start there & hopefully you will hit it off.
Going to a counselor is also something I've done. I admit I would have liked to talk with a counselor more than I have, but I'm always so busy with my regular dr. appts and all the activities and appts my three kids have, that it doesn't leave a lot of time for me. It is important to carve out time for dealing with your feelings- I am learning that!

I don't know what your situation is with regards to family, how many people you have around you, etc. I would say to get involved in something if you're not- whether it's an exercise class, a community center class for fun (whatever your interest is), volunteering somewhere, etc. Something to get your mind off cancer and also feel good about yourself in that maybe you're helping others. Do you currently work?

Whatever you do, do something for yourself that is fun and makes you feel good & definitely plug in with a counselor and/or local support group, and also plug in with other people who "have been there". & keep coming back here!

Take care!!
Lisa

smokeyjoe
Posts: 1428
Joined: Feb 2011

Well, went out for nice dinner with lifelong friends tonight.....my girlfriend told me another close friend of hers was just diagnosed with colon cancer and she basically had the same surgery as me.....so, now my friend has booked herself for a colonoscopy :) With two people close to her having the same cancer got her thinking, good thing she's now getting herself checked.

Scambuster's picture
Scambuster
Posts: 973
Joined: Nov 2009

Hi Smokey,

If you wish to do the Alkalizing things, best to do it with diet. The conflicts arise with the medics that Blood pH can't be altered an if it were, we would all die. Other parts of the body however do not get the pH regulated as rigorously as the blood, nor in the same manner, and most cancers occur in other parts of the body than the blood.

You may wish to buy some litmus strips and test your Saliva and Urine. Mine all tested around high 5's to mid 6's in late 2009. Neutral pH is 7.0 Below that is Acidic and above is Alkaline.

I'm not going to bother with the 'Does it work or not' here, you have make that your own decision. So, there are foods that 'Acidify' your body, and those that 'Alkalize' it. Some are very different to what you may expect i.e. Citrus is an acidic food, BUT it has an Alkalizing effect on your body. So eating Alkalizing foods in the right amount, and reducing the acidifying foods, will help you body get to an Alkaine state (over 7.0). THey say for disease free people, to eat 60/40% Alkalizing foods, while those with disease or wnating to fend off a recurrence (us), then go 75/25 -80/20.

I have done the major diet change and my body is now slightly Alkaline. I feel great and all my previous ailments including :Headaches, Gout, Fibromyalgia (Joint and Muscle pain), and avcid reflux are all gone. After 30 years of suffering, that is a relief I can tell you.

Best not to rely on a pill or powder to change you body pH. Use diet. Funnily enough, most of the Alkalizing foods are also on the same list as the 'Good' foods recommend in most Anti-Cancer diets (most fresh friuts and veges). Similarly, all the bad Acid producing foods are on the DO NOT EAT list of the same diet: Meats, Sugars, alcohol, processed foods. You can do a simple search and you will get websites with list of Acidizing foods and the alkalizing foods. Find one and print it off and stick it on your fridge(Here is just one of many: http://www.thewolfeclinic.com/acidalkfoods.html

From all the studies i have done and am still doing, a common thread among long term survivors is that that changed their diet. These common changes are going mostly or all Vegetarian, get pof processed foods, sugars and fried foods, and consume fresh fruits, veges, pulses and whole grains. REgardless of what you believe, people who use this diet are generally, statistically and clinically healthier that those still on the SAD (Standard American Diet) as punted by the FDA.

So if you want to do it, do it with diet, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Best regards
Scambuster

PS Not wishing to complicate things, but you may wish to do the same search and print for the 'Anti-Angiogeneis' Food list. These foods are shown to reduce the ability of the cancer cells to trigger the genesis of their own blood vessels which is critical for the advance of Cancer. Not a bad arrow to have in your quiver and funnily, many of the same foods appear.

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

That does raise a question, the most alkaline area of the body is the colon (thanks to the pancreas), so how come we have cancer? Also, our cancer spreads mostly through the lymph system, which is the blood, so how does raising the alkaline help that?

Btw, the most acidic part of the body is the stomach, so why is this not the leading site for cancer?

Can you explain how these "other parts of the body" get their alkaline from food? What is the mode of transmission from the stomach?

Can you show a direct relation of the alkaline of your saliva to the alkaline of the lungs or the liver? For those of us on this board, those are the most likely spread sites, so that information would be useful as we make lifestyle decisions.

Funny you point to the anti-angiogenisis foods. The drugs mentioned in Lenz's letter ARE the anti-angiogenesis family of drugs that William Li has promoted. As noted in the letter, they did not work for stage 3 (and it should be noted that they failed in stage IV breast cancer as well). How is eating those foods (a basic good diet by the way, no harm in eating it) going to make that different?

Here are a couple of websites on blood PH (not cancer related, so the authors are not trying to prove a point):

http://www.anaes.med.usyd.edu.au/lectures/acidbase_mjb/causes.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_happens_if_your_blood_pH_levels_are_too_high_or_too_low
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalosis

Real questions Scam, do you have answers for them?

Best regards,

Blake

bigCrandy
Posts: 75
Joined: Sep 2008

Hey Buckwirth, I like your style. I'm not taking sides but what you are saying is right on. Sometimes medical doctors and pharmacists think they have all the answers. Only God has all the answers. If they know so much about cancer, then why haven't they found a cure yet. They are no closer to a cure now as they was 30 years ago. The surgeries have improved dramatically and that's a start if you are diagnosed at an early stage. When you get to stage 3C or 4, then you rely on the chemo and radiation. I've never had radiation so I can not comment on that, but I have had 67 rounds of chemo and I don't see it ever curing me. It slows it down and buys me more time but being on chemo for the rest of your life sucks. If the time comes when I can no longer work full time then it's time for me to stop the chemo. Quality of life matters! Medicine thinks it has a drug for everything that ails you, every drug out there has side effects which are sometimes worse than the actual disease or condition. Chemicals are a foreign substance that just ain't supposed to be in us. The damage that chemo does to all our healthy cells is beyond belief, it has to tear down the good cells to get to the bad (cancer) cells, that's how chemo works, it's a trade off. I'm glad to see a healthy discussion on CSN and I don't think you offended anyone, I believe this is good for cancer survivors to have opinions and disagreements. Thanks, everyone, may God Bless, Randy

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Thanks for the support. I too think this is a valuable conversation, and we need to have it. If a chemo treatment buys me nothing (some do) I would tell my doctor thanks, but no thanks. On the other hand, why should I change my lifestyle if that change buys me nothing? Again, thanks, but no thanks. Eating is part of quality of life, and if I am going to give up my morning donut, or my evening steak, I want to know why and what I get with that. Is it a cure? An extra two months?

When it comes to diet and how nutrition moves through the body, we are not talking about unknowns here, those are the simple questions that biology answered long ago. No mystery, no disagreement.

coloCan
Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct 2009

NOT answered because genetically modified organisms did not then exist and in the near future this stuff will be everywhere and only their creators see no harm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buckwirth's picture
Buckwirth
Posts: 1272
Joined: Jun 2010

Interesting subject. Even a genetically modified food source will move through the body the same way, unless it can carve its own pathway. You are correct about questioning future harm.

The story of the cane toad in Australia should give pause to those who think the balance of nature can be changed with no consequence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toads_in_Australia

Blake

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