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Dr. Lenz on diet and supplements for patients with CRC

califsue
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2007

Dr. Lenz also presented information on diet and supplements for patients with CRC. He recommends 1500 mg of Calcium and 3000 iu of vitamin D daily.

I asked him about the sugar/cancer connection. He said that a "diet for diabetics" would be optimal. It is the insulin spikes that feed the tumors. So whatever you eat, when you eat, try to keep your blood sugar levels constant. Eat like a diabetic.,,,,,,Google.

Hope this helps,
Susan

kristasplace's picture
kristasplace
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2007

Hi Susan! Why aren't doctors volunteering this information? It's like a, "don't ask, don't tell" situation. I can't help but be angry about this, though the information is out there if you look for it. These doctors are supposed to be helping us!

Thank you for posting this!

Hugs,
Krista

PGLGreg's picture
PGLGreg
Posts: 741
Joined: Jul 2006

Shouldn't we wait to be mad until we know that Dr. Lenz' theory about insulin spikes is true?

--Greg

jscho
Posts: 62
Joined: Jun 2009

Hi, Dr. Lenz is not the originator of the idea of a connection between insulin spikes and cancer growth. High insulin levels lead to production/increase in the liver of a growth factor (IGF-I) in a free form that encourages cell survival, gene expression and growth of cells. This is particularly problematic for cancer patients with mutations in the signaling pathway downstream from the IGF receptor.

See A. Samani et al, Endocrine Reviews 28, pages 20-47 (2007) for a scientific review.

Best wishes,
Jeremy

califsue
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2007

Thank you Jeremy for the additional information. I didn't mean to imply that Dr. Lenz was the originator of this idea. He does a lot of research at USC and recommends this diet for his patients.

Susan

califsue
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2007

Hi Krista,

My own oncologist hasn't offered me any information about supplements or diet when I have asked him. I went to Dr. Lenz for a second opinion and credit him with saving my life. He has a blog on the C3 site. I was thrilled to hear his lecture. Extremely well informed and personable. He is passionate about finding a cure for CRC. In addition to having a heavy patient load he also does a ton of research.

Take good care,
Susan

GetBusyLivin's picture
GetBusyLivin
Posts: 25
Joined: Aug 2009

Susan, I posted in another thread that we saw Dr. Lenz for a 2nd opinion too. Thanks for the further info on him. Did he say, specifically, what the Vitamin D and Calcium supplements would do? I'll look for his blog, too, thanks!

betina61's picture
betina61
Posts: 644
Joined: Aug 2006

I am not so sure about the theory that sugar feeds cancer, long time ago I went to M.D. Anderson web page, and ask that queation,and is not a matter that I have a sweet tooth or anything like that, but a lot of people were talking in this board about that, and they gave me an explanation about why they consider that to be a "mith" ,it was long and I don't remember very well to repeat it , but anyone can go to their web page and get that information.

Shayenne's picture
Shayenne
Posts: 2370
Joined: Jan 2009

I know quite a few people who were very healthy eaters, and never ate sugar, and they still got cancer anyway, so it is questionable.

Hatshepsut's picture
Hatshepsut
Posts: 340
Joined: Nov 2006

So many things could cause cancer--environmental pollutants, genetics, obesity, diet, and on and on.

Considering the possibility that diet could even remotely be a factor in reducing the likelihood that one could get cancer (colon and otherwise) or have it recur and knowing that a low-fat healthy diet can protect the heart, I can't imagine why anyone would not change their diet. It would sure be a lot more pleasant than chemotherapy!

Hatshepsut

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2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Well said (as usual).

jscho
Posts: 62
Joined: Jun 2009

As I mentioned above, I think the evidence, both clinical and laboratory, supporting a connection between insulin spikes and tumor growth in the review cited in my earlier post is pretty compelling. For what it's worth, the review is a peer-reviewed scientific article. I put more stock in this research than clinicians opinions, even if they are at one of the best cancer centers.

I have found that there is a lot of hogwash on the internet, particularly concerning dietary issues and disease.

If you can find the link to the M.D. Anderson web page, I'd be interested.

Best,
Jeremy

serrana
Posts: 163
Joined: Apr 2009

When I was diagnosed I cleaned out my pantry ( every single thing there had some kind of hi fructose, sucrose, sugar, fake sugar, etc. from spaghetti sauce, crackers, to applesauce) For two years I have eaten absolutely NO sugar nor sugar substitutes. It is not hard to do. I use stevia ( the plain kind by NOW) and even bake with it. Read every label. Makes shopping a long trip for sure.
This is something we do have control over....what goes in our mouths. I've had two small recurrences since then, been in chemo twice, but it might have been much worse if I'd been eating all the sugar that Americans eat........who knows.
The alt med folks have insisted on the sugar/cancer connection for decades; interesting that Dr. Lenz is now discussing it.
Serrana

Annabelle41415's picture
Annabelle41415
Posts: 6434
Joined: Feb 2009

My doctor said it wasn't anything I ate or drank that caused my cancer. I never have eaten sugary foods. No candy, cake, cookies. I'm not a sweet eater, but a vegetable eater and I still got cancer. I'm not saying it is not relevant, but I know a lot of people that eat deserts and sweets every day and they don't have cancer.

Kim

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Sundanceh
Posts: 4408
Joined: Jun 2009

I find this to be the most fascinating topic in all of Cancer...the ONE question that absolutely cannot be answered yet due to the variables in our population and the world in which we live in.

I believe we are all looking for the ABSOLUTE reason we get cancer, but there is not really one answer, is there?

I had a nurse tell me that the world has changed very much in the past 30-years and we now live in a world of Cancer.

Many more toxins available now than in previous generations. Think about all of the plastics being used in everyday life now as opposed to many years ago. Heredity and environment undoubtedly plays a part as well.

I cannot discount a good diet and healthy eating habits for overall health, but as was mentioned, I know of some people that do all the right things and still got cancer.

So, let's just say that diet is very important but again is not the ABSOLUTE answer to cancer.

I don't have the answer or I'd be a rich man :)

But here are personal examples that I've witnessed that formed this opinion:

1. Myself. When they first scoped and scanned me, I should have had no stomach and my liver
and kidneys and intestines should have had more holes in them than swiss cheese. None of my
habits were any good - I should not have even been alive.

2. Friends and co-workers. I know 2 guys who eat breakfast sausages and hash browns and drown
them with a large soda every morning. Then for lunch, it is 2 double cheeseburgers and
biggie size the fries and sodas again. Both are over 425 lbs with no evidence of cancer.
Plenty of alcohol and other items as well.

3. Grandparents. Think back to some of you over 40. My grandmothers cooked in bacon fat and
grease. There was fried chicken, cakes and pies of all kinds...breakfast was bacon or
sausage and eggs with toast and jelly. The tea was so sweet because they used so much sugar
to sweeten it - the only time I ever turned down soda for tea, it was that good. All of my
grandparents lived late into their 70's and early 80's....they did not have cancer.

4. Woman with cancer. Lastly, I met this woman at the cancer center. She never drank, never
smoked, never did drugs, grew her own organic vegetables, juiced, and drank alot of water.
She had LUNG cancer - go figure. I have not seen her for awhile and am afraid she might
have passed away.

This is just such a fascinating topic and I would love to find out the real answer. I mean if there were ONLY one real answer, then it discounts what I and others have written about on this post.

Can you enhance your odds by a good diet - sure you can. But I know of too many people who are unhealthy and don't even exercise, and they are going merrily along with no cancer. Something else might get them, but so far cancer has not.

What disturbs me is that more people under 40 are now getting colon cancer, so there is a connection somewhere - genetics and heredity may be 2 of the key factors.

The good news is that if you are getting a colonoscopy ever year, polyps can be detected and taken out earlier and the odds of getting cancer in the colon area are greatly diminished. If the mets are under control, then the odds obviously increase.

Thank you, Sue, for a great post...I always enjoy reading topics like these and I appreciate everyone's input with all of the various opinions and experiences that we've gathered.

I think the important thing to remember is...There is a Quality of life, over a quantity of life.

For me, it's more than just keeping my heart beating...TASTE is one of the 5-Senses and from time to time, it's nice to enjoy that sense that some food can bring you.

-Craig

kristasplace's picture
kristasplace
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2007

Craig, you are so right about the observations of the older generations bad eating habits, yet no cancer. Like you said, there are many variables as to why one person gets cancer, and another doesn't. I've been reading dozens of books on this subject, and several of them keep mentioning the same interesting suggestions as to why this is.

1. The over use of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, antibiotics, growth hormones, MSG, hydrogenized fats, over-processing foods, refining foods, denaturizing foods, aspartame, saccharine, over industrializm, GMO's, etc..was minimal until post WWII. Since then, the use of these things, and cancer (and other illnesses) have been steadily on the uprise. DDT was banned in the U.S. many years ago, but the U.S. still sells it to other countries. Particularly South America and Mexico, where we here in the U.S., get a lot of our produce.

2. Our water and air is highly polluted with dangerous levels of hydrocarbons like no other time in history.

3. Certain people with type-C personalities have higher rates of cancer. These are people who are not usually self-assertive and have trouble saying "no", and tend to have feelings of despair and hopelessness if their life focus falls apart. ie: a divorce, the loss of a child, the loss of a career. The prolonged period of stress dramatically lowers the immune system allowing rogue cancer cells to find root and go out of control.

4. Chemicals used on our bodies such as aluminum based beauty products, lead based cosmetics, amalgum (sp?) for fillings (many people don't know that amalgum is mercury based, and constantly emits highly poisonous gas into the body, and into the air), household cleaning products, microwave ovens (using plastic in them releases dioxide), toxic medications, and the list goes on and on.

It's a complete miracle to me that every single person in the world doesn't have cancer! But you know, half of the people in the U.S. are expected to get cancer in their lifetime. Those odds are staggering, and it's safe to assume those odds will increase in time. Those people you see treating their bodies without any disregard are probably not as healthy as you think. Each one of them is a ticking time bomb. Everyone has cancer cells in their bodies (probably as a result of the above mentioned factors). It's just a matter of if, when, and where it finds a place in the body to nest and fester.

I've been told many, many times how lucky i am i got my cancer young so i could fight it aggressively. I always thought it would be better to get it old because you're at the topping off stage already, so who cares? Now i think it's better not to get it at all, and there is a way to do that. From the evidence i've seen, there's a way to reverse it too, no matter how festered we are with it. There are ways we can make our cells resistant to the poisons and toxins we're bombarded with every day, every where. The main thing we have complete control over is what we choose to put inside our mouths.

If anyone is interested in the referrences and studies that support the things i mentioned above, i will be glad to give them to you. PM me, and i'll compile a list for you.

Hugs!
Krista

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

I would like the reference list. Hopefully you will find my pm on your page.

kristasplace's picture
kristasplace
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2007

I didn't get your PM, but i will PM it to you!

Hugs,
Krista

Hello dasspears! I just tried to PM you, and it says you don't accept PM's. I will post the references here for you!

Here is a good comprehensive list of references. Most of these books list in detail the studies that were performed to test the theories. My favorite book of all time is "Diet for a New America" which is fairly radical, but backed up. "The Live Food Factor" is much like an encyclopedia of information.

"Anticancer: A New Way of Life"
David Servan-Schreiber, MD, PhD

"The Live Food Factor"
Susan Schenk, LAc, MTOM
with Victoria Bidwell, PhD, EdD

"Diet for a New America"
John Robbins

"A Cancer Therapy"
Dr. Max Gerson

"Healing the Gerson Way"
Charlotte Gerson & Beata Bishop

"The Sunfood Diet Success System"
David Wolfe

"Crazy, Sexy, Cancer"
Kris Carr

"Living Foods For Optimum Health: Staying Healthy in an Unhealthy World"
Dr. Brian R. Clement
with Theresa Foy Digeronimo

DVD's: "The Beautiful Truth"
Sites: www.pcrm.org
www.davidwolfe.com

I hope you enjoy them! I have even more references that include recipes if you want them.

Hugs!
Krista

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Just wanted to piggy back onto your list. I just checked it out of our library so I haven't read it all, but a friend who had breast cancer and is going au natural suggested I get it. I'll let ya know....Are you familiar with it?

I LOVE Crazy Sexy Cancer. Kris's blog is great too. Check it out.

Another good book for healing in general is Spontaneous Healing by Dr. Andrew Weil. Excellent point of view for healing disease.

peace, emily

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

So far I am impressed with this book. The author, Colin Campbell, has so many credentials in the scientific community....Penn, Cornell, Virginia Tech... as a researcher winning awards for his studies. He has done many studies and began his career trying to increase the amount of protein in animals. So he comes from a conventional background when it comes to figuring out the cancer connection.

Can't wait to read more tonight.

peace, emily

dasspears
Posts: 233
Joined: Feb 2009

I can now be PM'd! Thank you so much for posting the references!

serrana
Posts: 163
Joined: Apr 2009

Just a comment....it is possible that if Dr Lenz says that it is the insulin spikes that feed the cancer then he isn't actually saying that sugar CAUSES cancer, just that once there is a malignancy the presence of insulin interferes with the body's defense system in getting rid of it.
If sugar and insulin issues CAUSED cancer we would see lots of diabetics w/ cancer wouldn't we?
It seems that the new research points to genetic mismatch instability in cell recognition of uncontrollable growth as the reason malignancy appears and survives.
Then how we treat that is possibly to deprive the cells of glucose? or insulin? or give them nutrients that will help them fight? or just go in and kill them ( chemo, targeted therapy, radiation) or all of the above.....There really isn't one answer or we wouldn't have any cancer in the world.......
Serrana

califsue
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2007

Serrana,

The sugar/cancer connection can be confusing. In no way did Dr. Lenz imply that sugar causes cancer. If you have metastatic disease, i.e. existing tumors one thing that you can do to help control the growth of the existing tumors is to keep your blood sugar stable which means no insulin spikes. This does not mean that you cannot eat sugar or that sugar causes cancer. What is does mean is that if you watch what you eat and when you eat it so that your blood sugar remains stable, then you are doing one thing more to help control this awful disease.

Hope this helps,
Susan

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

sugar creates an acidic pH in your system which DOES feed the cancer also. It's really a better policy to avoid ALL refined sugar, alcohol, meat, dairy refined grains, toxic emotions, stress, etc due to the pH issue when dealing with cancer or any disease for that matter.

This is in conjunction to stabilizing blood sugar/insulin spikes.

Our bodies have to tell those blasted cancer cells they aren't welcome!

GREEN = LIFE

peace, emily

califsue
Posts: 80
Joined: Oct 2007

Emily,

Thank you for your valuable information, as always. But.....I don't know how to get myself motivated to improve my diet. Part of it has to do with the fact that I am on Folfiri/Avastin every other week which makes my taste buds really picky and makes me lazy in the kitchen. I don't eat meat, only fish. I have one cup of coffee in the morning with milk and sugar. That's the only sugar and dairy that I have except for a small amount of goat cheese now and then. I eat a lot of fresh vegetables in salads, cooked veggies with tofu and brown rice, wild salmon, etc. On my chemo off weeks, I have a glass of red wine with dinner (wine tastes terrible to me on chemo).

Perhaps this should have been a PM directly to you. Perhaps you've already posted this information, but what do you eat? I tried cooking kale and it was a disaster. I wish that I could beam you down to my kitchen!

Thanks,
Susan

jscho
Posts: 62
Joined: Jun 2009

I'm curious about the comment that lower pH "feeds" cancer. The cell regulates the "acidity" of the cytoplasm with proton pumps and other ion channels. I don't know of any cellular signaling mechanism by which the local acidity encourages cell growth, or how sugar levels lead to increased acidity in the blood, which is strongly buffered.

Emily, do you have any references for this?

Best,
Jeremy

GOOFYLADIE's picture
GOOFYLADIE
Posts: 233
Joined: Aug 2009

I had colon cancer 11 years ago. I was a fruit and veggie person to the max. I loved a BBQ'd homemade hamburger and still do once in awhile. Chemo managed to ruin the taste of fruits and veggies for me. I try and taste them and still fix them all the time but they never have tasted the same as they used to. But the Ph level your talking about I am very curious too. I am on Aciphex, they have me take Tums for the Calcium but it has also helped with tummy issues, and I am on Lialda for Ulcerative colitis. I was being treated for stomach ulcer they thought when they finally decided to scope both ends and found the cancer. I had been on stomach meds for a year and a half before they ever scoped my stomach. They would have seen I had no ulcers then. But I did have a high ph. Just thought I would through that in the pile. Thanks all your awesome.
I love the feedback everyone has.
Make it a great day!!
Goofyladie (Cass)

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Hi Jeremy,

Well, I'm not biologist or chemist so you're getting kinda fancy on me. I like to keep it simple.

According to Robert Young, PhD different areas of our bodies need different pH levels but "the blood must stay in a very narrow pH range--mildly basic or alkaline. The body will will go to great lengths to preserve that, including wreaking havoc on other tissues or systems.
The pH level of our internal fluids affects every cell in our bodies. The entire metabolic process depends on an alkaline environment. Chronic overacidity corrodes body tissue.......it is the root of all sickness and disease."

My quick quote doesn't do justice to the book, so anyone can read it--The Ph Miracle by Robert Young, PhD.

But that's just one reference. We can start there.

peace, emily

kristasplace's picture
kristasplace
Posts: 956
Joined: Oct 2007

I've also been reading that cancer thrives in an anaerobic environment. That's another good reason for something that's nearly impossible to do when on chemo; exercise! Someone sent me a link to a website i haven't been able to explore yet about how baking soda gives the cells oxygen, and aids in alkanization. Here is the link: www.naturalallophatic.com

Two cups a day of baking soda water. I wonder how THAT tastes!

Hugs!
Krista

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

Hi Krista,

I have a friend in my homeschool group healing from breast cancer and she's doing it au natural. I believe she mixed maple syrup into the baking soda to get the cancer active and then the baking soda pops the cancer.

Don't quote me on that but that's what I remember.

peace, emily

jscho
Posts: 62
Joined: Jun 2009

Thanks for the reference emily. I will check into it. Sorry if I sounded fancy or uppity (I am a chemist and know a bit of biology). I do believe strongly in dietary influences on cancer growth, but always try to understand the mechanism.

Best,
Jeremy

2bhealed's picture
2bhealed
Posts: 2085
Joined: Dec 2001

well I don't always understand the mechanism if anyone gets too science-y on me! :-)

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