21 Year Old NSMLC Adenocarcinoma Stage 4

medi_2 said:

hullo!
I've read arguments for both sides and have come to my own conclusions but will not venture to say what is 'correct' and 'not correct', I only know what works for me and when I see someone 50 or more pounds under their ideal weight, I don't think instant breakfast is going to do much harm. Also the 'sugar feeds cancer' debate rages on but I think people are taking it too literaly (H & S, where are you? ). But as all cancers are not alike, so all treatments are not alike and different strokes for different folks (oh gosh I sound like a dork). Welcome to our site and we look forward to hearing more from you!
Medi

Hullo!
Sorry if it seemed very disrespectful to say that. My experience is only relatively recent, and im a caregiver, not a survivor. So whatever has worked for you is what is "correct" for you. But my comments were blurted hastily because of conviction and passion to help someone else embarking on this journey. For three months I've immersed myself thoroughly in as much material as humanly possible with the crazed enthusiasm of someone trying to save the life of someone i love. And its a recurring theme that sugar and highly processed foods are on the "avoid" side of the cancer menu. Yes i'm skeptical of mainstream commercial processed food products even before the diagnosis, but im not a wingnut. After three years going through the wringer of law school, I'm pretty good at sussing out the legitimacy of my resources and am not so desperate that i'd cling to quackery for hope. Even if you still have a kernel of doubt about the value of the studies that show negative impact of sugar, I dont think that extra sugar in the diet does anyone enough good to make it worth taking the risk of guzzling it in the form of commercial processed-to death products like ensure that have no relation to real foods that grow out of the ground. I mean, Certainly for the pleasure of living its worth having pleasures of favorite food items that may contain sugar. Savor a creme-brulee if that feels good. But drinking ensure? Doesnt seem worth it. So processed and sweet. Long shelf life usually means a food product is not great for human bodies. Commercially prepared drinks are convenient but should not be the cornerstone of a cancer diet. How about chicken broth? theres a wonderful hydrating nourishing and affordable alternative. Given a diagnosis like this, why not go for passionately learning about how to care for a body with great living foods. whats the downside?

phelangelica said:

Hullo!
Sorry if it seemed very disrespectful to say that. My experience is only relatively recent, and im a caregiver, not a survivor. So whatever has worked for you is what is "correct" for you. But my comments were blurted hastily because of conviction and passion to help someone else embarking on this journey. For three months I've immersed myself thoroughly in as much material as humanly possible with the crazed enthusiasm of someone trying to save the life of someone i love. And its a recurring theme that sugar and highly processed foods are on the "avoid" side of the cancer menu. Yes i'm skeptical of mainstream commercial processed food products even before the diagnosis, but im not a wingnut. After three years going through the wringer of law school, I'm pretty good at sussing out the legitimacy of my resources and am not so desperate that i'd cling to quackery for hope. Even if you still have a kernel of doubt about the value of the studies that show negative impact of sugar, I dont think that extra sugar in the diet does anyone enough good to make it worth taking the risk of guzzling it in the form of commercial processed-to death products like ensure that have no relation to real foods that grow out of the ground. I mean, Certainly for the pleasure of living its worth having pleasures of favorite food items that may contain sugar. Savor a creme-brulee if that feels good. But drinking ensure? Doesnt seem worth it. So processed and sweet. Long shelf life usually means a food product is not great for human bodies. Commercially prepared drinks are convenient but should not be the cornerstone of a cancer diet. How about chicken broth? theres a wonderful hydrating nourishing and affordable alternative. Given a diagnosis like this, why not go for passionately learning about how to care for a body with great living foods. whats the downside?

Agree with most of what u say, healthy diet serves a purpose...... and I agree that cancer utilizes sugar....as do all cells.

But the body will synthesize the sugar it needs. The brain is the most metabolically active portion of the body consuming massive amounts of glycogen. Hence that is the reason that pet scans are done on the body... but not the head. The head "lights up" like the sun. So would consuming sugar enhance brain activity... doubtful.

Your final statment is...what's the downside...speaking from experience as a caregiver... it rapid weight loss. If chemo/cancer patients are having a tough time eating various things, then they should eat what they want in order to keep an acceptble weight, or even pack on a few lbs if on the skinny side.

We eat lots of brocoli, tomatos, veges in my family. That should be part of a well balanced long term diet, and I believe too may prevent cancer.... but the proverbial horse is out of the barn... my opinion... also based on research, is that sugar consumption is really only an issue when blood sugar levels cannot be regulated. If that is not a concern, then patients should eat what provides calories.

....the debate rages on.....;) fueled by sugar.

Adenocarcinoma NSMLC Stage 4.
Hi Stayalive, Oh man... you are in a real tough place. Your son must still be stinging from diagnosis. I also had Adenocarcinoma NSMLC, but my staging was much better. As to sugar or not sugar... I almost feel the discussion here is inappropriate, but you may feel the need to research the issue. It's a hard thing to do with lung cancer. Hang in there. Tim aka trft

NayPaul said:

Agree with most of what u say, healthy diet serves a purpose...... and I agree that cancer utilizes sugar....as do all cells.

But the body will synthesize the sugar it needs. The brain is the most metabolically active portion of the body consuming massive amounts of glycogen. Hence that is the reason that pet scans are done on the body... but not the head. The head "lights up" like the sun. So would consuming sugar enhance brain activity... doubtful.

Your final statment is...what's the downside...speaking from experience as a caregiver... it rapid weight loss. If chemo/cancer patients are having a tough time eating various things, then they should eat what they want in order to keep an acceptble weight, or even pack on a few lbs if on the skinny side.

We eat lots of brocoli, tomatos, veges in my family. That should be part of a well balanced long term diet, and I believe too may prevent cancer.... but the proverbial horse is out of the barn... my opinion... also based on research, is that sugar consumption is really only an issue when blood sugar levels cannot be regulated. If that is not a concern, then patients should eat what provides calories.

....the debate rages on.....;) fueled by sugar.

the week after chemo, diet must vary
As a general rule we observe a diet low in sugar and high in whole grain foods between chemo rounds. But the week after chemo, your stomach cant work that hard to digest whole grains etc. So processed or overcooked or juiced or pureed foods may be the best way to keep something down. Once G is back on his feet we resume a healthful diet.

Also I've seen first hand the benefits of having G supplement with ginger twice a day for three days before chemo. For G it has meant the difference between functionality and total abject misery. it cuts the nausea immensely in combination with the nausea meds.

We did two rounds without ginger and two rounds with ginger. He will never agree to chemo without the ginger protocol again. I will post the abstract of the study findings lower on the thread.

phelangelica said:

This is a discussion board
Hey grumpy smurf, This is a discussion board and my replies are my partcipation in a discussion. Secondly, my replies are appropriate to a thread and directly respond to the post which asks for "any info and help you can offer.... What can we do? Diet, supplements?"

It pains me to read your defensiveness and to be treated like an intruder for sharing information that i've culled from so many sources that are specificlaly intended to be helpful to people who have cancer to live and live well.

It is my belief that when someone asks for what they can do proactively for their health in the face of such a terrifying diagnosis, suggesting carnation instant breakfast is not empowering them with information.

Telline people it doesnt matter what they eat or what they do, that passively taking synthetic pharmaceuticals and "instant foods" is their best bet, well, to me thats not only untrue, its disempowering and depressing. Theres a lot people can do for their health. Staying positive and getting exercise are paramount. So is eating foods that would rot or sprout if left out for a while - rotting or sprouting is a good sign they might actually digest in your body. Prepackaged, highly processed sugar foods are not anybody's friend. calories are not all equal. you can thrive on a low sugar diet. I've seen it. So have you. Horses weigh a ton, literally, and they dont need carnation instant breakfast.

If learning about healthy eating and making informed choices strikes you as more burdensome than empowering thats you. It doesnt mean you dont actually have power in making choices, or that what you choose doesnt make a difference for your body. feel free to ignore the advice and Stayalive and her son can decide for themselves.

be well.

?
Phelangelica, Have you ever felt like you had been chewing on metal? Or looked at your favorite food and wanted to puke? I sincerely hope you never do Dear. And do you know what? When I was being treated (very aggresively); Carnation Instant Breakfast tasted soooo good when nothing else did. Thank you for your advice but I follow my own path.
Stayalive, I am sorry to intrude on your thread. Please keep writing and keep us posted. I think you will find that reading about other's experiences makes you feel like you are not alone.
cheers
Medi

medi_2 said:

?
Phelangelica, Have you ever felt like you had been chewing on metal? Or looked at your favorite food and wanted to puke? I sincerely hope you never do Dear. And do you know what? When I was being treated (very aggresively); Carnation Instant Breakfast tasted soooo good when nothing else did. Thank you for your advice but I follow my own path.
Stayalive, I am sorry to intrude on your thread. Please keep writing and keep us posted. I think you will find that reading about other's experiences makes you feel like you are not alone.
cheers
Medi

Empowering vs. validating
Youre experience is of course valid. i didnt think this thread was about what tasted good to you and the effect of chemo on your tastebuds.

I think the discussion was about what someone with a newly diagnosed son who is reeling with that terrible disempowered helpless feeling can do. What tools she can use to empower herself as a caregiver and support her son. I've been where she is. Right where she is. And you saying that carnation et al is "the only supplement" she should use, or that antioxidants feed cancer is not just scientifically untrue, but its a big bummer.

Sorry, i wont be guilt tripped into agreeing with those 2 statements. They arent true.

mamacita5 said:

Foods during Chemo
Medi I agree with you....that metal taste was the worst! I found anything creamy that had some fat content in it helped me the most. Crunchy salads with ranch dressing really hit the spot, as well as chicken pot pie! I also stumbled upon fresh coconut right from the shell helped. If I chewed a piece of fresh coconut it took the taste from my mouth for a bit. I did gain weight rather than losing during chemo because of my eating habits but my doctor was thrilled because it is easier to tolorate chemo if you don't lose too much weight. I am now doing VERY well and started a yoga class last night. Now that I am eating normally again my weight has settled back down to normal as well.

All the best to you and your son as you fight the fight!

!
You will looove yoga! Let us know how it goes.
Medi

phelangelica said:

Things we wish we knew sooner about Chemo
To supplement with Ginger starting 3 days before (see abstract below)
to wear acupressure wristbands 48-72 hours after - like seabands - especially if you have to ride in a car. Proper placement is important. Cannabis really helps appetite and nausea it helps a lot. I hope you have access to it.

for several days afterwards Avoid grease and anything else hard to digest. Hydration is more important than food. Tiny sips stay down, big gulps dont stay down. If he cant drink any water get him IV fluids, it will accelerate his recovery. Sugary drinks are to be avoided, if you want something like gingerale then dilute it with water.

Have a few kinds of broth around. eat what is craved within reason, nothing super greasy. chew it a lot. make life easy for your stomach.

Take Milk Thistle to reduce toxic burden on liver after chemo.

Get acupuncture if you can between treatments, and taking probiotics and enzymes before meals can help with rebuilding digestion and immune system after the nausea passes and foods can be eaten again.



ABSTRACT: Take ginger as a method to prevent nausea, according to a University
of Rochester Medical Center study that was funded by the National
Cancer Institute. The study involved 644 cancer patients who were
scheduled to have at least three chemotherapy treatments. Chemo
patients in the study were given either ginger or a placebo. Those
who received the ginger rated their nausea level at just two or three
on a scale of one to seven.

Patients took ginger three days before and three days after getting
chemo. They took three capsules twice a day. The most effective doses
were 1 g and 0.5 g a day, which equal 1/2 tsp. or 1/4 tsp. of ground
ginger. Ginger is available at most health food stores.

During the study, all patients also received a standard drug, such as
Zofran or Kytril, to prevents nausea and vomiting.

Ginger?
According to the abstract, the patients who received givnger rated their nausea at just a two or three on a scale of one to seven....

Do you know at what number those who took a placebo rated their nausea? I did not see that included here.

stayalive said:

Thanks for all Useful Info
Thanks to all for sharing all the useful info.

My son goes back for his 2nd course of chemo this Fri. He will have ultrasounds & tests before he starts the 2nd course. He reads about sugar and tries to avoid it though he takes Agave Nectar. He seems to continue to look skinnier though he has not lost his appetite completely. However, he is coughing alot more which worries me tremendously. If fluid continues to build up in his heart membrane, the doctors will have a permanent hole (sorry not sure what the medical term is for this procedure) to drain the fluid from his heart membrane to the stomach and I'm very worried that this will cause the cancerous cells to build up in his stomach & other organs.

My son is doing meditations and Qing-gong. There are different meditation & breathing techniques in Qing Gong that increases inner strength and inner oxygen level that we are hoping will help our fight against this disease.

We heard of a teacher who had Stage IV cancer and had gone thru 28 chemo courses with no success and the doctors basically sent him home saying there was nothing they can do. So this teacher for the next 1 year travelled to China to learn different Qing gong techniques and now he's in remission for 8 years. He's now a Qing Gong master inspiring other cancer patients to defeat this disease. We are inspired by this and my son goes to the Qing Gong sessions twice a week. Of course he's the youngest learner in the group but that does not discourage him.

We are hoping that we will get over this difficult challenge and that my son can continue to live his dreams.

Hi Stayalive, my husband
Hi Stayalive, my husband also have stage 4 lung cancer and had heard good things about Qing Gong. He too is following a teacher who had bone cancer about 30 years ago. Same like your son's teacher, he went back to Hong Kong did surgery and refused all chemo and radiation, instead he went to learn Qing Gong. He has other patients with other illness who are his students and all are looking more healthy than ever.

God bless and lets keep hope alive.

phelangelica said:

Ginger
Do look up the studies on acupressure for chemo nausea. They are highly suggestive of efficacy and I know a lot of people who benefit from them. Pretty sure any color will help, Stayingcalm, if its correctly placed on the P6 point. Studies using "sham points" showed that the patient did not enjoy a placebo effect. It has to be correctly placed.

And do look at the study on ginger and hear my experience, im smart and observant and Im sharing my experience: that it works, it helps a lot with nausea.

That was also the experience of the participants in the double blind study funded by the National Cancer Institute. If that strikes you as quackery but you embrace the pharmaceuticals that are being sold to you by corporations that have a huge motive to move their product to you that is your lifestyle choice.

Keep in mind that Ginger and Acupressure are affordable and effective and easily available to everyone and theres really no harm in you setting aside your cynicism and giving these things a try.

I have no motive to mislead anyone: do what you can to improve quality of life and balance the toxic arsenal of pharmaceutical treatments with healthy lifestyle choices.

Please do -
- post a link to the studies. And I'm also interested in the scientific proof for the efficacy of the wristbands, but I'll tell you, acupressure sits right up there with homeopathy for sheer silliness, in my book. Ginger for nausea, well...It's possible, but does it work better than Zofran or Emend or Kytril?
Thx for the info.