Do you really think it can be beat?

PhillieG said:

Nobody gets out of here alive
That's the bottom line. Obviously the whole part of being born is that we will one day die.
It's in the fine print on our Birth Certificates. Really, it is!

I happen to think NED is over-rated and/or that it gives people a false sense of beating death or something. I do remember finishing the first 12 round cycle of chemo (200 some odd treatments ago) and the nurses having this "party" for me and I got a balloon and lollipop or something like that. I thought "this is cool" but I didn't think it was over as far as cancer goes. I've been living with cancer for 6 1/2 years. I think the word living is the important part. I'm not about to wait until some doctor or test tells me I'm NED. I feel very good and that's what is important to me. I'm pretty sure that I could be NED and feel like crap. I'd rather feel good and not be NED at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to hear that I'm NED but my main goal is to enjoy my time here. If I don't hear it then I don't hear it.

Just reading the posts on this site, how many times have you read that someone is NED and all excited about it, then a month later they are saying that their cancer is back and they are devastated. I have absolutely no desire to put myself through that. I feel I do not project gloom and doom for myself either. I just try to do my best to be in the moment as much as I can.

There is a quote that I like that goes like this:
"The truth is, once you learn how to die, you learn how to live."
~ Mitch Albom
This can also be looked at as coming to terms with one's mortality.

You say Christine that "But then I think I am missing the whole point of being NED and that means being happy in the moment and tomorrow will take care of itself." I believe that the whole point of LIFE is to be happy in the moment. We have little or no control over anything else. If we die from cancer, we die from cancer. Most of us probably stand a greater chance statistically speaking of being killed while driving to the doctors office than of dying from cancer.

So to answer your question Christine, YES I think cancer can be beat but do I think that hearing/seeing the words NED is what I am striving for, the answer to that is NO. At some point we all will no longer exist on Earth. I guess that makes us NED & DEAD
;-)

Phil
Very well said. I visited with a counselor several times during treatment, back in Nov/Dec '09. One of the things we talked about--what I was struggling with--is that I wanted to be okay with death (whatever that means). Even though my diagnosis was stage I rectal cancer and my doctors were thinking to cure it, cancer has a way of taking your Mortality out of the closet and setting it squarely on the table next to your cup of coffee, like it or not. So now I'm in the "waiting room," -- hmmm, recurrence? maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe not...But Death? Definitely...now? tomorrow? next year? month? 30 years? who knows. And yes, you are correct, Phil. I looked at my birth certificate--and you might need it a magnifying glass to see it but it's certainly there, in fine print, just like you said. This awareness of our Mortality can lead us to a new appreciation of Life, to live in this moment of time right now.
Here's to Now.
~Audrey

greybeard64 said:

I get it, and who knows?
I can sure relate to your question, as for an answer well I think you have to "get there" yourself. We all have different ways of dealing with the various situations we find ourselves in. Taking control of our diet, exercising, education, etc.. are all ways we try to come to grips with where we are. A positive attitude is important but I know I wasnt whistling zip-a-de-do-da 24/7 before all of this so should I expect to do so now?
I hear so many stories of people who through a crisis such as cancer transform their lives. They become more, more religous, more active, more open, more caring, more tolerant. They create for themselves a life that from outside appearance anyway, is so much fuller, richer then the lives they had before the crisis. I keep looking for some grand awakening in myself. So far I havent found it. Mind you I am not waiting for this to happen, I am actively trying to find this source for myself.
I think (and this is just my two cents) maybe I am trying to find something that isnt there. Why should the fact that I have cancer suddenly answer questions that quite frankly I had before all of this. The fact that we may die sooner then we thought will definetly change things, but I doubt that the majority of us will suddenly find some well spring of inspiration that drives us to do great things or live some magical life. I am, within reason, the same person I was before Cancer. I always took joy in the little things, I wasnt a slave to my job, I loved my family dearly, and rejoiced in the life I was given. I took pride in the fact that my daughters would call us if they saw a beautiful sunset and didnt want us to miss it. I also struggled with who I was, where I wanted to be, etc...
I dont mean this as a negative, and I speak only for myself and my feelings, but I was an "average" guy before cancer, full of questions, doubts, and fears, why should I expect a life threatening illness to transform me into something I am not. I try to keep that in mind when I am stuggling with the "what the h@##'s".
I realize this may not be what you are looking for, but I think it has helped me deal with my current situation, so I thought I should post.
chris

ME too
Thanks could not said it better myself. Laura

PhillieG said:

Nobody gets out of here alive
That's the bottom line. Obviously the whole part of being born is that we will one day die.
It's in the fine print on our Birth Certificates. Really, it is!

I happen to think NED is over-rated and/or that it gives people a false sense of beating death or something. I do remember finishing the first 12 round cycle of chemo (200 some odd treatments ago) and the nurses having this "party" for me and I got a balloon and lollipop or something like that. I thought "this is cool" but I didn't think it was over as far as cancer goes. I've been living with cancer for 6 1/2 years. I think the word living is the important part. I'm not about to wait until some doctor or test tells me I'm NED. I feel very good and that's what is important to me. I'm pretty sure that I could be NED and feel like crap. I'd rather feel good and not be NED at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to hear that I'm NED but my main goal is to enjoy my time here. If I don't hear it then I don't hear it.

Just reading the posts on this site, how many times have you read that someone is NED and all excited about it, then a month later they are saying that their cancer is back and they are devastated. I have absolutely no desire to put myself through that. I feel I do not project gloom and doom for myself either. I just try to do my best to be in the moment as much as I can.

There is a quote that I like that goes like this:
"The truth is, once you learn how to die, you learn how to live."
~ Mitch Albom
This can also be looked at as coming to terms with one's mortality.

You say Christine that "But then I think I am missing the whole point of being NED and that means being happy in the moment and tomorrow will take care of itself." I believe that the whole point of LIFE is to be happy in the moment. We have little or no control over anything else. If we die from cancer, we die from cancer. Most of us probably stand a greater chance statistically speaking of being killed while driving to the doctors office than of dying from cancer.

So to answer your question Christine, YES I think cancer can be beat but do I think that hearing/seeing the words NED is what I am striving for, the answer to that is NO. At some point we all will no longer exist on Earth. I guess that makes us NED & DEAD
;-)

Birth has a poor prognosis
well said Phil and Kathi and Aud et al

and we're all skating on thin ice whether we are living with cancer...or not. Usually when pondering things like life and death, I enjoy reading poetry. Mary Oliver is one of my favorite poets because I like how she doesn't beat around the bush.

When Death Comes by Mary Oliver

When death comes
like the hungry bear in autumn;
when death comes and takes all the bright coins from his purse

to buy me, and snaps the purse shut;
when death comes
like the measle-pox

when death comes
like an iceberg between the shoulder blades,

I want to step through the door full of curiosity, wondering:
what is it going to be like, that cottage of darkness?

And therefore I look upon everything
as a brotherhood and a sisterhood,
and I look upon time as no more than an idea,
and I consider eternity as another possibility,

and I think of each life as a flower, as common
as a field daisy, and as singular,

and each name a comfortable music in the mouth,
tending, as all music does, toward silence,

and each body a lion of courage, and something
precious to the earth.

When it's over, I want to say all my life
I was a bride married to amazement.
I was the bridegroom, taking the world into my arms.

When it's over, I don't want to wonder
if I have made of my life something particular, and real.

I don't want to find myself sighing and frightened,
or full of argument.

I don't want to end up simply having visited this world.


With much love and respect, Leslie

greybeard64 said:

I get it, and who knows?
I can sure relate to your question, as for an answer well I think you have to "get there" yourself. We all have different ways of dealing with the various situations we find ourselves in. Taking control of our diet, exercising, education, etc.. are all ways we try to come to grips with where we are. A positive attitude is important but I know I wasnt whistling zip-a-de-do-da 24/7 before all of this so should I expect to do so now?
I hear so many stories of people who through a crisis such as cancer transform their lives. They become more, more religous, more active, more open, more caring, more tolerant. They create for themselves a life that from outside appearance anyway, is so much fuller, richer then the lives they had before the crisis. I keep looking for some grand awakening in myself. So far I havent found it. Mind you I am not waiting for this to happen, I am actively trying to find this source for myself.
I think (and this is just my two cents) maybe I am trying to find something that isnt there. Why should the fact that I have cancer suddenly answer questions that quite frankly I had before all of this. The fact that we may die sooner then we thought will definetly change things, but I doubt that the majority of us will suddenly find some well spring of inspiration that drives us to do great things or live some magical life. I am, within reason, the same person I was before Cancer. I always took joy in the little things, I wasnt a slave to my job, I loved my family dearly, and rejoiced in the life I was given. I took pride in the fact that my daughters would call us if they saw a beautiful sunset and didnt want us to miss it. I also struggled with who I was, where I wanted to be, etc...
I dont mean this as a negative, and I speak only for myself and my feelings, but I was an "average" guy before cancer, full of questions, doubts, and fears, why should I expect a life threatening illness to transform me into something I am not. I try to keep that in mind when I am stuggling with the "what the h@##'s".
I realize this may not be what you are looking for, but I think it has helped me deal with my current situation, so I thought I should post.
chris

Chris
Chris,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. It sounds like you have a beautiful family and you have had the gift of appreciating the good things for quite some time. Beautiful!

Have a great weekend.

Aloha,
Kathleen

lesvanb said:

Birth has a poor prognosis
well said Phil and Kathi and Aud et al

and we're all skating on thin ice whether we are living with cancer...or not. Usually when pondering things like life and death, I enjoy reading poetry. Mary Oliver is one of my favorite poets because I like how she doesn't beat around the bush.

When Death Comes by Mary Oliver

When death comes
like the hungry bear in autumn;
when death comes and takes all the bright coins from his purse

to buy me, and snaps the purse shut;
when death comes
like the measle-pox

when death comes
like an iceberg between the shoulder blades,

I want to step through the door full of curiosity, wondering:
what is it going to be like, that cottage of darkness?

And therefore I look upon everything
as a brotherhood and a sisterhood,
and I look upon time as no more than an idea,
and I consider eternity as another possibility,

and I think of each life as a flower, as common
as a field daisy, and as singular,

and each name a comfortable music in the mouth,
tending, as all music does, toward silence,

and each body a lion of courage, and something
precious to the earth.

When it's over, I want to say all my life
I was a bride married to amazement.
I was the bridegroom, taking the world into my arms.

When it's over, I don't want to wonder
if I have made of my life something particular, and real.

I don't want to find myself sighing and frightened,
or full of argument.

I don't want to end up simply having visited this world.


With much love and respect, Leslie

Very beautiful poem, Leslie.
Very beautiful poem, Leslie. Thanks for sharing it; it really gives pause to think.

Buzzard said:

Do I really think It can be beat.......
I want you to ask me that same question in 40 years cause both of us will still be here....Deal???....Love to ya, Buzz

All right, I;ll give ya til July 17, 2050 to answer that......
(I;ll be pushing 100 then and still rockin')and not a day more or less!!!......steve

PhillieG said:

Nobody gets out of here alive
That's the bottom line. Obviously the whole part of being born is that we will one day die.
It's in the fine print on our Birth Certificates. Really, it is!

I happen to think NED is over-rated and/or that it gives people a false sense of beating death or something. I do remember finishing the first 12 round cycle of chemo (200 some odd treatments ago) and the nurses having this "party" for me and I got a balloon and lollipop or something like that. I thought "this is cool" but I didn't think it was over as far as cancer goes. I've been living with cancer for 6 1/2 years. I think the word living is the important part. I'm not about to wait until some doctor or test tells me I'm NED. I feel very good and that's what is important to me. I'm pretty sure that I could be NED and feel like crap. I'd rather feel good and not be NED at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to hear that I'm NED but my main goal is to enjoy my time here. If I don't hear it then I don't hear it.

Just reading the posts on this site, how many times have you read that someone is NED and all excited about it, then a month later they are saying that their cancer is back and they are devastated. I have absolutely no desire to put myself through that. I feel I do not project gloom and doom for myself either. I just try to do my best to be in the moment as much as I can.

There is a quote that I like that goes like this:
"The truth is, once you learn how to die, you learn how to live."
~ Mitch Albom
This can also be looked at as coming to terms with one's mortality.

You say Christine that "But then I think I am missing the whole point of being NED and that means being happy in the moment and tomorrow will take care of itself." I believe that the whole point of LIFE is to be happy in the moment. We have little or no control over anything else. If we die from cancer, we die from cancer. Most of us probably stand a greater chance statistically speaking of being killed while driving to the doctors office than of dying from cancer.

So to answer your question Christine, YES I think cancer can be beat but do I think that hearing/seeing the words NED is what I am striving for, the answer to that is NO. At some point we all will no longer exist on Earth. I guess that makes us NED & DEAD
;-)

Phil
I agree. It is hard to come to grips with your own mortality but I believe the only way to truly heal is to get yourself in a spiritual and mental state where you are not afraid to die. I realize this is a lot easier said than done
Also, statistics do not apply to individuals and you never know what can happen. A perfectly healthy person could walk out he door today and get hit by a bus. There are people who are diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and don't live more than six weeks after their diagnosis and others who beat it or live way beyond anybodys expectations. You just have to do your best to enjoy the time you have because you never know.

ron50 said:

yes
Hi Christene,
There are always cracks in anything in life and some of us slip thru the cracks. I have been told by my surgeon and onc that I am cured of the cancer I had ,,,BUT watch out for new ones. Once you have fulfilled the criteria for getting cancer ,if the same conditions return ,you will get a new one. So I spend half of my life with a camera where the sun don't shine and the other half trying to fight off all the other things trying to kill me and that includes half the medicos I see. But yes there are some long term survivors I'm coming up to the end of year 13 my old mate Foxy(Virginnia from New zealand) ,I don't see her much on the boards anymore but she was stage 4 with a liver resection and she was a couple of years in front of me. There is Neon,2B healed,Stacey,Runnerz,Scouty and a heap more who have slipped thru the cracks and stayed vigilant. I class myself as one of lifes accidental tourists, there is nothing I did that makes me a better survivor than anyone else ExCEPT 'I walk on the cracks' Ron.

ExCEPT 'I walk on the cracks'
I like that Ron. Thank you for sharing.

all the best, Leslie

PS Thanks for this thread Christine. Timely for me :-)

Cancer… It’s never really gone
Cancer… It’s never really gone

It hits me when I’m at the park with my kids. It hits me sometimes late at night. It hits me when I see the sun set at the end of the day. It hits me when driving along listening to music. Sometimes even hits be when I’m gong to the bathroom. Cancer is never really gone from our thoughts and that’s the rough part of this fight. But I have today while many of my friends don’t. It reminds me of something I read. It was about this father taking one of his little boys to the park.

~ While at the park one day, a woman sat down next to a man on a bench near a playground. "That's my son over there," she said, pointing to a little boy in a red sweater who was gliding down the slide. "He's a fine looking boy" the man said. "That's my son on the swing in the blue sweater."

Then, looking at his watch, he called to his son. "What do you say we go, Todd?" Todd pleaded, "Just five more minutes, Dad. Please? Just five more minutes."

The man nodded and Todd continued to swing to his heart's content. Minutes passed and the father stood and called again to his son. "Time to go now?" Again Todd pleaded, "Five more minutes, Dad. Just five more minutes." The man smiled and said, "O.K."

"My, you certainly are a patient father," the woman responded.

The man smiled and then said, "My older son Tommy was killed by a drunk driver last year while he was riding his bike near here. I never spent much time with Tommy and now I'd give anything for just five more minutes with him. I've vowed not to make the same mistake with Todd. He thinks he has five more minutes to swing. The truth is, I get Five more minutes to watch him play."


I just want to stay around for my family for 5 more minutes