Raw Food Lecture - And Pass the Plate....

2bhealed said:

Smooch!
Get people thinking and changing paradigms.....that's what I like to do.

I personally do not know one person who has done what I have done...ONLY surgery and alternatives and NO conventional treatments. I DO know people who did conventional medicine that didn't work and THEN did alternatives and it didn't work. Is that maybe the kind of people who you know? Because they belong to a different paradigm. They are people that we'll never know what did them in....if they didn't do any conventional then we know for sure that their program didn't work OR they didn't work the program. (just a "little bit" of sugar or junk food or soda or ice cream or alcohol etc etc).

Sorry that you do know folks who didn't make it after doing what I did. I just don't know anyone.

Greed sucks no matter what package it's in. Just saying.

peace, emily

devil's advocate here
First let me say that I feel strongly that each person needs to do what they think is best for them. I personally believe combining western with eastern or complimentary medicine gives the greatest chances of all. I don't think focusing on only one alone is a great answer.

But I'm not going to tell anyone else what they need to do. And I'm not going to assume that if someone did chemo, whether they did or didn't do alternative or complimentary medicine, and they don't make it, that the reason was they did chemo. I'm going to believe that possibly there was nothing that could be done in their case, or possibly they might have had better luck with something else, but that it really doesn't matter because they did what they thought was best for them.

"I personally do not know one person who has done what I have done."

Here is where I can't help but play devil's advocate:
Well in that case, how can any assumptions be made that your way is the best way? Only one case study? It could simply be that you are one that didn't need anything at all after surgery and you would have been fine. Or it could be that everything you did decide to do was needed to fully heal you and keep the cancer away. We'll never know. And since you are the ONLY one you know that has done this, that really doesn't give us much in the way of statistics to think your way is the only way to be cured. It worked for you, and I am very glad it did! It may work for others, and I'd be very happy for them if it does.

We do know that plenty of people that choose chemo DO live without recurrance. We have more statistics to say chemo does work than your way does work. Not your fault the stats aren't there - not many choose that route, so how do you get those numbers up? We do know that a percentage of people that choose chemo and a percentage of those that do not choose chemo have recurrances, and at some point die. This happens from both pools, with the numbers being higher from those that choose no chemo (but this may be because most of those are older or in poorer health to begin with).

Who's to say what would make the difference in those that do or don't have recurrances? Heck, it makes no sense at all that I even got colon cancer. I'm still baffled on that one. So I'm certainly not going to know what is the "magic" cure for me either. All I can do is my best - I will return to growing organic in our garden, and my diet of no red meat, with lots of raw fruits and veggies. I will return to exercise, fresh air and sunlight. I will do what I can to keep my stress levels low. I will pray.

And if the cancer comes back some day, I am not going to say it is because I did chemo. I'm going to say it is because I have always been an oddball medically and I just have to deal with it.

Kathryn_in_MN said:

devil's advocate here
First let me say that I feel strongly that each person needs to do what they think is best for them. I personally believe combining western with eastern or complimentary medicine gives the greatest chances of all. I don't think focusing on only one alone is a great answer.

But I'm not going to tell anyone else what they need to do. And I'm not going to assume that if someone did chemo, whether they did or didn't do alternative or complimentary medicine, and they don't make it, that the reason was they did chemo. I'm going to believe that possibly there was nothing that could be done in their case, or possibly they might have had better luck with something else, but that it really doesn't matter because they did what they thought was best for them.

"I personally do not know one person who has done what I have done."

Here is where I can't help but play devil's advocate:
Well in that case, how can any assumptions be made that your way is the best way? Only one case study? It could simply be that you are one that didn't need anything at all after surgery and you would have been fine. Or it could be that everything you did decide to do was needed to fully heal you and keep the cancer away. We'll never know. And since you are the ONLY one you know that has done this, that really doesn't give us much in the way of statistics to think your way is the only way to be cured. It worked for you, and I am very glad it did! It may work for others, and I'd be very happy for them if it does.

We do know that plenty of people that choose chemo DO live without recurrance. We have more statistics to say chemo does work than your way does work. Not your fault the stats aren't there - not many choose that route, so how do you get those numbers up? We do know that a percentage of people that choose chemo and a percentage of those that do not choose chemo have recurrances, and at some point die. This happens from both pools, with the numbers being higher from those that choose no chemo (but this may be because most of those are older or in poorer health to begin with).

Who's to say what would make the difference in those that do or don't have recurrances? Heck, it makes no sense at all that I even got colon cancer. I'm still baffled on that one. So I'm certainly not going to know what is the "magic" cure for me either. All I can do is my best - I will return to growing organic in our garden, and my diet of no red meat, with lots of raw fruits and veggies. I will return to exercise, fresh air and sunlight. I will do what I can to keep my stress levels low. I will pray.

And if the cancer comes back some day, I am not going to say it is because I did chemo. I'm going to say it is because I have always been an oddball medically and I just have to deal with it.

Let's Put This Sad Old Argument To Rest
Hi Kathryn,

I do not assume that my way is the best way--it was the best way for ME. When I share my journey it's to give others information that they wouldn't otherwise get from their doctors that there ARE choices and successful ones at that.

This is not what the thread is about. It's about GREED on the part of the MEGA business of cancer. We're talking about a multi-billion dollar industry and my point was that the Raw Foods advocate was peddling her/his part of that multi-billion dollar industry and for Phil to look at both sides of the greed issue. His beef was with the whole "prosperity" vibe that was underlying the presentation.

When Phil commented that he knows people who die on both sides of the chosen path issue (chemo vs alternatives) my point was that most use CAM (complementary Alternative Medicine) and therefore we can not be sure what was the protocol that didn't work...(though most I know personally choose the Western way before they exhaust their options and then turn to alternatives so the outcome "statistics" will be skewed).

Please can we just let it go and not go round and round on this one.

It's all about greed and our oncologists/pharmaceuticals are just as guilty as the Raw Food seminar promoters who are passing the plate and banging out a buck from our cancer crisis and vulnerability.

We all just want to live.

peace, emily

John23 said:

Hoooray Emily!
You tell 'em, gal !

"Just walk into a chemo clinic to get your $10,000 does of chemo.
Just get cancer and have everyone and their pharmaceutical
grandfather try to sell you their latest magic potion be it
FOLFOX or OXY whatever. And are they working??"

There are many other options to western medicine's expensive
experiment, and there are many of us that are still here to tell
others about it. Most alternative routes are less expensive than
the co-pay for any of the western medicine treatments available.

The blind faith in western medicine has baffled me as much as the
reluctance to do whatever is needed to save a life. Pure common
sense should indicate that when something makes you sick, it's
gonna' be a real freak show to try and get well afterward.

But no-one should hold a blind faith in any medicine or therapy.
It doesn't matter if it's herbs, juicing, diet, homeopathic, chemical,
or any other attempt at a cancer cure; blind faith does not allow
one to make a conscious choice of the viable paths that can be taken.

My conversation with one onco went like this:

Can you tell me if there are cancer cells inside me?
No, we can only assume there are.

Can you tell me how many cancer cells are inside me?
No, we have to assume there are many.

Can you tell me if the chemo will kill the cancer cells?
No, but we assume it will kill some.

Can you tell after chemo, if the chemo actually killed any cancer cells?
No, we can only assume.

Can you guarantee that the chemo won't do permanent damage to me?
No, but we try our best to not let that happen.

Can you tell if the cancer will come back after chemo?
No, there's no way to tell that.

When my neighbor found out I was doing Imported Chinese
herbs for my fight against cancer, my neighbor asked me:
"How do you know it's going to work?"

I laughed, and told him that I asked my onco that same question
about chemo and radiation.

That was over three years ago, and a lot more time than they told
me I had left to my life. (WBC/CEA, scans etc, are presently normal).

I may eventually die of cancer, but it's not because I chose
a different route; we all may succumb to cancer. I simply chose
to fight cancer without the side effects and threats of harm due to
toxic chemical overload, or cellular destruction of radiation.

There are other options to western medicine's cancer industry.

Don't let fear of dying lead you down the wrong path, and
don't be afraid to change paths, if you see the one you're
on is going no-where.


John

My thoughts EXACTLY
"I may eventually die of cancer, but it's not because I chose
a different route; we all may succumb to cancer. I simply chose
to fight cancer without the side effects and threats of harm due to
toxic chemical overload, or cellular destruction of radiation".






I have said from the get go that chemo scared me MORE than the cancer.

PhillieG said:

The Point is Greed
The point I was going for was the GREED factor John, not who's right or wrong. There is no right or wrong with this stuff. There are miracles and horror stories on both sides of the debate. What there is in common is that there are people lined up from here to eternity ready to rid us of money. Emily (as usual) brought some great insight to the discussion.

Yeah, we're all going to die too. That's a given. I agree, if the path one is on, be it raw or chemo, and it's not working then it's time to reevaluate. Do any of you folks know of any raw or TCM people who saw that their route was not working and switched to chemo? Just wondering...
-phil

Phil !

Re:
"The point I was going for was the GREED factor "

That is the whole issue here! It's the amount of money that's
being tossed around in the name of cancer, that's the biggest problem.

It's a multi-billion dollar industry that feeds off anyone that
fears cancer. It's not just the "holistic" vendors, it's the
western medicine debacle as well. Emily hit it on the head,
when she typed:

"It's all about greed and our oncologists/pharmaceuticals are just
as guilty as the Raw Food seminar promoters who are passing the
plate and banging out a buck from our cancer crisis and vulnerability. "

Cancer care has become an industry, not a science. The same
chemicals that were used 40-50 years ago, are the same ones being
used today. They've modified the amounts, and have tried mixing
and matching, but it's the same old stuff.

Does it work? Maybe; maybe not, how can we be sure? There
wasn't one physician that would assure me that it works; no
guarantees are ever made.

Do herbs work? Maybe; maybe not, how can I say for sure?

You're right, there's no "right or wrong", but that's not what the
cancer industry tells us. They say it's either chemo, radiation,
or death.

That incites fear, and fear drives the individual into a path that
leaves an awful lot to be desired.

There are more deaths -related to- the side effects of chemo
and/or radiation, than cancer itself. That's the part "they" don't
talk about, unless you pressure "them". (old news)

I might turn to chemo or radiation if I find that medicinal herbs
aren't doing what I expect, but I would sooner try other alternatives
first, provided I had the time to.

"Imagineit2010" said:
"I feel I'm lucky enough to have time on my side, being stage 2"

I was stage 3c by one onco, and a 4 by another; from what I've
heard, a stage 2 is no picnic at all.

Staging isn't a well designed science, it's what's going on inside us
that is important. With stage 2 victims, they seem to encourage a
feeling of relaxation, rather than fear and immediacy that they
promote with us 3s and 4s.

My friend was a stage one when I was operated on, and he's
gone; died last month. They didn't offer him chemo, since they
didn't find any reason to, and he thought he was safe; good to go.

Two years later, they told him he was a late stage four, and that
it was too late for chemo, etc. He tried a local holistic herbalist,
drank garden herbal broths, eliminated sugar from his diet as she
directed, and continued to get worse. He died in a hospice,
skinny, frail and weakened. (I hate cancer).

It doesn't matter if one is a stage 1 or a stage 4, cancer has had
a chance to grow, and since the immune system hadn't stopped
that one cell, it's not likely to stop any future ones from growing.

Chemo, radiation, and herbs can kill cancer cells, but we have to
make sure that our immune system will continue to do that job,
not just outside help.

The fact that chemo and radiation destroys our immune system,
should be considered a major problem, since without a strong immune
system, we are left at the peril of chemicals and radiation without
any other protection.

I want to live, and I really, -really- want to see others live.

I want us all to beat cancer, and there may be better ways to do it
than what mainstream medicine has to offer.

Don't let the greed machines sell you a bill of goods; don't allow
fear to drive you.

Instead, listen to your own common sense and intuition. We are
all born with basic survival instincts, just as animals are; when we
listen carefully to our instincts, we survive.

Better health to all!


John