What are they, Chopped Liver?

Hondo said:

Hi Phillieg

As normal very interesting subject

I can only speak for my self on this and not for others or other Christians or groups. Faith is something that can’t be explained, I quote this from the Bible in Hebrew 11:1 Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

From the beginning of Man there has always been the need to worship, we look back in history and see many people who worship the Sun, or the Moon as it was God. There is just something about us that has this need built in side of us. Even people who don’t believe in God still worship something whether they know it or not. My Boss who I worked with for 28 years was an atheist and so I learned a lot of what atheists believe in, that’s right what they believe in, another word for Faith. If you believe in nothing you are still believing in something. This is kind of a paradox but yet it exist.

The hope of man is in something better then this life of sickness, pain and suffering and so believing in something helps to relieve this burden of sorrow. You might say a way of focusing on something else to relieve or passing pain on to something else “that is faith”.

As far as doctors I personnel believe that God has giving our doctors the wisdom needed to help us heal our broken bodies. I thank my doctors for what they do and praise the God I serve for bringing them in to my path. But I also believe that doctors are not the only source of healing in this world, this is my personal opinion, have you every wondered what we did before there were doctors.

We tend to all look at doctors as a miracle pill for when we mistreat our bodies and expect them to heal us so we can abuse it again, and so the need for our doctors grow. I am glad that they are there and most these days are there because they want to help people, the rest are there only for the money, you can always tell them apart in the way they treat you.

I am very lucky in a lot of ways but mostly one, my cancer doctor is a dedicated Christian who knows that he is only the instrument in the hand of God. He knows and understands my Faith and I know and understand that he will be there to help me make the right choice when the time comes.

Just my opinion so please don’t take anything wrong

Hi Hondo
I'm glad you posted your opinion, there is nothing in there that I could (or would) take wrong. I do consider myself an agnostic. I do not know the answers but I do feel that events took place that put us all where we are today. Either through Mother Nature or a Supreme Being. I do not put a whole lot of my energy thinking (or worrying) what will happen to me when I die. I do not believe that I'm just dead and no longer have any consciousness but I don't believe in heaven and hell either. Maybe in the end we all go to where ever we wished we went after we die. I somehow can not see the Dali Lama being denied entry into Heaven because he did now take God as his god.

"The hope of man is in something better then this life of sickness, pain and suffering and so believing in something helps to relieve this burden of sorrow. You might say a way of focusing on something else to relieve or passing pain on to something else “that is faith”." Good point, I feel that is what man does too. The look for someone else to take care of things in the end and make everything alright. Not a bad thought.

You are right about man's constant quest for answers, that's probably one of the biggest things that separate us from other animals. I just happen to believe that the gods and The God were created because of man's desire to have those answers. The things that were worshiped has changed over time. First it was the sun and moon and celestial events, then on to crops and other food sources, then it seems more to the hereafter although the Egyptians seemed to put a lot of though into that with the pyramids and burial chambers.

While I feel that religion certainly has a place in society, the pain and suffering that many of them have caused throughout history outweighs many of the benefits. It does seem that like in many institutions, the problems come from the higher ups (no pun intended if I even made one) and less with the people who are trying to live their lives in a helpful caring way that is usually the constant theme in religion. The amount of power that religion have give the few at the top is astounding and not balanced at all to me. Too often, in my opinion, religion has been used as a means of keeping people in line and also as a course of wealth and power for the select few. Even today as I flip through the stations on my TV I see these charlatans taking money from people who really think these "preachers" can either cure them of make their lives more prosperous. Prosperous, that seems to be the big theme that I see. I think many people see that as another word for $$$. Useless if you don't have your health. I usually can't stay on the station too long, I get the same reaction if I try to watch FOX News :-)

So, I took a long way around to get to the whole doctor thing. I believe that the doctors do what they do because that is what THEY chose to do. Their hands or choices are not guided by a higher power unless that is what they want to believe. They may have been inspired by other people who helped others or by having a loved one die of a disease so they decide to try to cure people. Helping other is not just a religious act. It's something we all have in us if we choose to do so. I never even wondered in any way what religion, if any, that anyone I've been operated by believes in. To me it makes no difference as long as they are food at what they do.

I realize many find comfort in their religions. That's great for those who do. I know this is a hot topic and that is why it is not up on the Cancer forum. I still do feel that the constant tone of the colon cancer board has WAY too many religious on it than I care to see. I've come to understand it and know that many have left the site because of that. I do not wish to get involved in heated discussions on the main site but I will make comments that "defend" doctors and give them the credit they deserve and not putting it all in "his" hands.

It's great to see you post here Hondo. I may not agree with your beliefs but respect your beliefs. Hey, no one knows the answer and we don't find out until the end. Until then, I feel I have a responsibility to do right by my fellow man (and woman) and try to live a helpful life.
Hope you're feeling well.
-phil

Here's a good one
To explain the God/doctor issue given by the one and only
Heidi Montag.

We should be OK with who we are

grandmafay said:

Faith
I love the posts here, but mostly I just lurk. Today I decided to comment. Today would have been my dad's 92 birthday. He died in 2000. I write this because my dad was an atheist. He never seemed to question his belief that there was no God. He particularly disliked the business of God. So that is how I grew up. He was tolerant enough to allow me to attend church and church functions with friends when I was invited. He saw those as social events. In college, I met and later married a good baptist boy. At that time I considered myself an agnostic. I didn't know what I believed and didn't care. Early in the relationship, I went to church with the baptist boy. After church, he asked me what I thought of the sermon which included the phrase,"If you don't accept Christ right now, you are on a toboggan straight to Hell," repeated several times. I told him I wasn't impressed. He told me that I was going to Hell. Interesting date! Anyway, after I got over the shock, I decided that I really should figure out what I believed. I was a teenager in college in the 60's. Knowing ourselves was in.

I will try to make what was a fairly long story as short as I can. I asked all my friends in the dorms to take me to their worship services. I started reading the Bible. I started with the Old Testament but was directed by a friend who planned to go to seminary to move to the New Testament. I later took a class on Old Testament, but that's a different story. I didn't study the Bible at that time. I just read it. At some point in this process, I realized that I was having conversations with God in my head. I was questioning Him/Her. More importantly, I was getting answers. I had faith. I can't explain it. I still question it at times. I even get mad at God. I am not a Biblical scholar and don't know a lot Bible verses by heart. I take the Bible seriously, but not literally. I believe in the God of the New Testament as personified by Jesus. I do not, however, discount the beliefs of others. My way is just that. My journey is a personal one. I now go to a United Church of Christ church where every service starts with, "Whoever you are and wherever you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." I also believe that although my husband died , his journey continues. During his fight with cancer, I prayed for healing. I prayed for the doctors and other care providers and I prayed for peace. We thanked every one of the doctors for their care. Having faith doesn't mean we always get what we want when we pray. Sometimes, God says no.

Ok, so much for short. Blessings, Fay

PS. I should add that over the years of living with me, my husband moderated his views. I don't think he ever again told someone they were going to Hell.

Hi Fay
I was raised in a typical Irish Catholic household. Well, maybe not typical, there were only 3 kids! All 3 of us kids went to catholic school too. Wow, what a first date. I have heard statements similar to that but never face to face. I'm not sure how I would handle it, it's such a "way out" comment that I certainly could not take it seriously. Yet many do believe that. I found the use of the word tobaggon funny, the snow would melt on the trip there I'd imagine ;-)

I have never taken the time to really figure out what I believe. I have enjoyed reading some Joseph Campbell and I like how he would take themes that occur in different faiths and show the common thread. It is interesting that there are many faiths that have virgin births, holy trinities and sacrifice for redemption. The church you go to now sounds very welcoming. That's great.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Fay and please comment more. It's open to everyone.
-phil

Marcia527 said:

beauty from within
I have a friend who is a retired surgical nurse. She told me years ago what plastic surgery will do to you. She can pick out people who have had it done. But speaking of beauty, once I read an article about a woman who had something to do with white water rafting (it's been a long time and don't remember much about it). But there was a picture of her face. Very large picture and it was full of wrinkles. But you could see her spirit shine in her eyes and smile. It was a beautiful face. She loved what she was doing and it shone out and made her beautiful, wrinkles and all. I can still see that woman in my mind even tho I've forgotten the article. It's not the lack of wrinkles but your spirit that makes you beautiful. I keep reminding myself that nothing is important except your spirit because that is the only thing you get to take with you to the next life. I consider love part of your spirit. Sometimes you get wrapped up in life and forget it.

Great post
Marcia, what a great post. I think you are so right with how the expression would not have been the same on that woman if she had one of those stretched out faces that look as if they are stuck like that. There is little that is interesting in a plastic face but there is plenty that is interesting in a weathered face. I'm not saying one's face should look like shoe leather, but aging is part of the whole package.
Thanks for your comments
-p