Learned something new about chemo

coolvdub
coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
Hi all,

Today I went for treatment #2. While discussing problems and such with the nurse, I told her about the supplements and other alternative foods in my current diet. Anyhow, apparently anti-oxidant rich food supplemets are a big no-no while on chemo. It turns out the drugs we are on are oxidants and anti-oxidants counter act the effectiveness of our drugs used for chemo. I had my wife bring in the supplemt and the pharmacist in the chemo room said to discontinue using it until after I'm done with chemo. Which I will do, I certainly don't want to extend my treatments or have to do it all over again. As a plus my white blood cell count was at 9.3 and the normal range is 4-11 according to the nurse, so I am looking good so far. Have a great weekend everybody.

Don

Comments

  • Shayenne
    Shayenne Member Posts: 2,342
    #2
    Hi Don!
    Well, that's wonderful news about WBC Don! mine was like a 3.0 this week, not too great, my onc won't do it if it gets lower then a 2, she'll make me take a Neulasta shot, which I only had to get once, and then that next night I was in the hospital with a colon perforation, and got a colostomy, I wonder where that pain from, the perforation or the shot itself!

    I always thought anti-oxidants were good for cancer??

    Hugsss!
    ~Donna
  • tootsie1
    tootsie1 Member Posts: 5,044 Member
    #3
    Whew!
    Whew! It's so confusing to figure out the right thing to do, isn't it? You think you're doing what you should, and then you find out you need to quit.

    Glad your numbers are looking good!

    *hugs*
    Gail
  • coolvdub
    coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
    #4
    tootsie1 said:

    Whew!
    Whew! It's so confusing to figure out the right thing to do, isn't it? You think you're doing what you should, and then you find out you need to quit.

    Glad your numbers are looking good!

    *hugs*
    Gail

    Confusing you bet
    Donna,

    Glad you are back, everybody was getting worried about you. I think Kaiser is using Epogen. Sounds like Nuelasta can be a real bummer, glad you are okay now though. I hope my WBC stays up.

    Gail,

    Just when you think you have it figured out, wham-o, you don't. Oh well, I will do some independent research just to verify what I was told. But I have to believe, I got good information.

    Love you all
    Don
  • kristasplace
    kristasplace Member Posts: 957 Member
    #5
    No antioxidants
    Hi Don! When i first met my oncologist, i told him right away that i was interested in alternative methods to cure my cancer, and he said he was all for it. When i told him about doing antioxidants and superfoods, he said definitely NOT! I started bringing him all the supplements i was taking, and he vetoed most of them. I think the only thing i was allowed to take were beauty enzymes! He also told me no acupuncture during chemo.

    It's sad, but it seems the treatments are one or the other. I know some cancer centers integrate both, but i don't know how. It must not include diet alternatives.

    Sorry you're finding this out late. I didn't know you were taking antioxidants right now, or i would've told you.

    At least you're not far into your treatment where i think it would make any kind of difference. Oh, be careful eating blueberries and pomegranites, too. They are majorly high in antioxidants.

    Hugs,
    Krista
  • dianetavegia
    dianetavegia Member Posts: 1,942 Member
    #6
    My onc allowed
    My oncologist okayed a Centrum Silver Ultra Women's vitamin, Calcium and Vit. D3 supplements. He said doctors disagree on many supplements but most agree that large doses of Vit. C during chemo are counterproductive.

    Eat Well! The diet linked below has been tested 3 times by the U of Mi. and proven to reduce recurrence of cc by 6%.

    Mediterranean Diet HERE

    Have a GREAT and HEALTHY day!
  • Annabelle41415
    Annabelle41415 Member Posts: 6,742 Member
    #7
    dianetavegia said:

    My onc allowed
    My oncologist okayed a Centrum Silver Ultra Women's vitamin, Calcium and Vit. D3 supplements. He said doctors disagree on many supplements but most agree that large doses of Vit. C during chemo are counterproductive.

    Eat Well! The diet linked below has been tested 3 times by the U of Mi. and proven to reduce recurrence of cc by 6%.

    Mediterranean Diet HERE

    Have a GREAT and HEALTHY day!

    Diet
    Doctor told me no supplements whatsoever except for a multi vitamin and my calcium pills. I did ask about the vitamin B6 to help with neuropathy and that was ok, but you need to clear everything with the doctor. Be careful with the mineral drinks too, that also has to be cleared. Also, was not to try to diet at that time either. You need all the strength you can to get through the chemo.

    Kim
  • PhillieG
    PhillieG Member Posts: 4,866 Member
    #8
    Suplements
    I was told a similar thing, my Onc is not big on taking anything with the chemo. They really do not know how things react with each other.
    -p
  • coolvdub
    coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
    #9
    Annabelle41415 said:

    Diet
    Doctor told me no supplements whatsoever except for a multi vitamin and my calcium pills. I did ask about the vitamin B6 to help with neuropathy and that was ok, but you need to clear everything with the doctor. Be careful with the mineral drinks too, that also has to be cleared. Also, was not to try to diet at that time either. You need all the strength you can to get through the chemo.

    Kim

    Still a lot to learn
    Krista,

    I just started to use the Garden of Life Superfood and Kefir last weekend. So I think it's no harm no foul at this point, it's been less than a week. Unfortunately I was also dx with Diverticulosis at my Colonoscopy so I need to stay away from blueberries and anything that can get caught in the pockets of my colon and absess. I am allowed to stay on the Kefir and my protien powder.

    Diane,

    Sheri and I have been thinking about the Medeteranian Diet, we learned about it during an education class for my diabetes. I need to do something. Since starting on Chemo my blood sugars are much higher than I like to see them. I got shook up pretty good the other night when it was at 175, my normal range is about 95-105 whicjh is considered normal and under control.

    Kim,

    I guess I will need to contact my Doctor more often, the problem right now is Kaiser had lost the only Onc in my area due to retirement. They were contacting with AV cancer center and my Onc there just didn't listen to me, so I cancelled the last appointment I had with him. We have a new Onc at Kaiser now but I don't see him until October 2nd. Also no diet for me now, I have lost 80 pounds since my diabetes dx in March '09 about 40 from that and 40 since my CRC surgery, if anything I would like to gain 15 pounds back,that would put me at 180 which would be good for me.

    Love all my new family on this site.

    Don
  • coolvdub
    coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
    #10
    PhillieG said:

    Suplements
    I was told a similar thing, my Onc is not big on taking anything with the chemo. They really do not know how things react with each other.
    -p

    Hey Phil,
    How's it going?
    Hey Phil,

    How's it going? Yeah the Docs and nurses really keep a tight reign on us. I guess it's for the best. I tell them everything I am trying. Guess it would be best to ask first then start if given the okay.

    Don
  • Sundanceh
    Sundanceh Member Posts: 4,392 Member
    #11
    Anti-Oxidants
    I was told by my onc to take no type of anti-oxidants whatsoever as it counter-effects what has been done with the chemo...what feeds the cells with good also aids the cancer cells.

    And we don't want to do that, do we Don?

    No cleansers or de-tox either, I asked about those as well.

    It's very interesting to watch your "discovery" as you begin the walk on your journey.

    I continue to pull for your success.

    Take care
    -Craig
  • Paula G.
    Paula G. Member Posts: 596
    #12
    John's Onc
    John's Onc said a multi with iron and he can take vit.D along with fish oil. Strange! His blood counts have been looking better.
  • Fight for my love
    Fight for my love Member Posts: 1,522 Member
    #13
    Hi Don,it's good to find
    Hi Don,it's good to find this out.Anyway it sounds like not to take these supplements at least makes you stay in a safe zone instead of taking the risks.Thank you for sharing the information with us and good luck to you with the rest of treatment.Take care.
  • Kathryn_in_MN
    Kathryn_in_MN Member Posts: 1,252 Member
    #14
    Fight for my love said:

    Hi Don,it's good to find
    Hi Don,it's good to find this out.Anyway it sounds like not to take these supplements at least makes you stay in a safe zone instead of taking the risks.Thank you for sharing the information with us and good luck to you with the rest of treatment.Take care.

    I'm glad you told them about
    I'm glad you told them about the supplements. While a lot of supplements are just hanging out there in the "we don't know" category, anti-oxidants work against what chemo does. It is great to use them before chemo, or after chemo, but just not during chemo.

    I use Isagenix products and right away I was told that I should NOT use any of the cleansing products during chemo - to stop at least a few days in advance.

    As for not being able to do acupuncture during chemo, I think there are very few doctors that would tell you that. In fact, the Minnesota Oncologist Association recommends acupuncture to assist with nausea.

    My personal opinion is that using nontraditional and traditional medicines together is helpful and will become accepted in the future. It is becoming more and more accepted all the time. Theraputic massage, acupuncture, diet and herbal supplements are working their way into more mainstream acceptance.

    One of the first things I told my oncologist was that I intend to mix some nontraditional things in, and he had no trouble with that. If he had, I would have started looking elsewhere right away. I really don't feel that our modern western medicine is the answer to LONG term health. I think we've made great strides in finding things to address symptoms, but not in staying healthy by addressing the underlying problems.
  • bdee
    bdee Member Posts: 304
    #15
    Supplements
    Don,

    My doctor knew from the very start what I was taking, Vita C, Multi Vitamin, drinking antioxidant tea, but he waited until I had been on chemo for four months before he told me to stop taking them. All I can take is Calcium with Vita D and I think that is because I've been diagnosed with possible osteoporosis.

    I think he waited this long to tell me to stop because the chemo is just barely keeping the tumors contained, not shrinking them at all and he wanted some results that made us both happy. I won't know until next month when I have my next CT Scan if not taking the supplements really helped or not.

    Debbie
  • lesvanb
    lesvanb Member Posts: 905
    #16
    Alternative treatments
    Hi Don

    My onc OK'ed acupuncture during treatment, and I found it extremely helpful. Don't know how I would have gotten through it without acupuncture. Still do it twice a week and fortunate my insurance pays for it. I followed my naturopath's advice during active chemo treatment who was working closely with a naturopath at an oncology clinic in Ohio and with my onc's OK. I stopped most things during the infusion and three-five days after. I took whey protein the whole time.

    Leslie
  • Oceansaway
    Oceansaway Member Posts: 25
    #17
    lesvanb said:

    Alternative treatments
    Hi Don

    My onc OK'ed acupuncture during treatment, and I found it extremely helpful. Don't know how I would have gotten through it without acupuncture. Still do it twice a week and fortunate my insurance pays for it. I followed my naturopath's advice during active chemo treatment who was working closely with a naturopath at an oncology clinic in Ohio and with my onc's OK. I stopped most things during the infusion and three-five days after. I took whey protein the whole time.

    Leslie

    During chemo -- how to define?
    When you all talk about not taking any antioxidants during chemo, do you mean during the entire period from the first day of the first round of chemo to the last day of the last round of chemo or just during the time of active chemo infusion?
  • bdee
    bdee Member Posts: 304
    #18
    Oceansaway said:

    During chemo -- how to define?
    When you all talk about not taking any antioxidants during chemo, do you mean during the entire period from the first day of the first round of chemo to the last day of the last round of chemo or just during the time of active chemo infusion?

    During chemo
    From now until I quit taking chemo, two or three years down the road. In other words, never, ever again.

    Debbie
  • coolvdub
    coolvdub Member Posts: 408 Member
    #19
    bdee said:

    During chemo
    From now until I quit taking chemo, two or three years down the road. In other words, never, ever again.

    Debbie

    Just checking in
    Hi All,

    Thanks to all of you for responding and adding to this thread. I think between all of us there is so much good information shared. I think Craig hit the nail on the head, this whole process is definetly a journey with much discovery along the path. And yes all anti-oxidants are a no-no from start to finish of treatment. Just remember communication with your medical team is super important.

    Don
  • grammadebbie
    grammadebbie Member Posts: 464
    #20
    bdee said:

    During chemo
    From now until I quit taking chemo, two or three years down the road. In other words, never, ever again.

    Debbie

    Other Debbie
    Hi Debbie,
    Now I'm really confused. (that's not that unusual haha) My doctor said I could use antioxidants now that I'm done with my chemo. Only during treatment did she say no. What is the answer to this one.

    Debbie (gramma)
  • bdee
    bdee Member Posts: 304
    #21
    grammadebbie said:

    Other Debbie
    Hi Debbie,
    Now I'm really confused. (that's not that unusual haha) My doctor said I could use antioxidants now that I'm done with my chemo. Only during treatment did she say no. What is the answer to this one.

    Debbie (gramma)

    Hi other Debbie
    According to my doctor, I will never be through with treatments. So I'll always be off supplements and antioxidants. I believe the doctor was talking about only during treatment, though, because he said every supplement and antioxidant that is "good" for you is also "good" for the cancer cells and just makes them stronger.
    My treatment will be for the rest of my life, which I hope will be a lot longer than my doctor has given, which is two to three years.

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