Nutrition for estrogen negative breast cancer

Great Post
This is pretty much in line with what I had researched except I had found that the high fat diet risk factor was for premenopausal bc rather than post menopausal bc. I was glad for that as I have a high fat diet. About 50% of my calories are usually from fat esp when I am generous with the flax and olive oil. But I should look again at the differences between estrogen - and + risk factors.

A couple of things I would add to that (from what I've found) because some people tend to over consume foods/supplements if they are thought to be cancer preventative. Green tea is high in fluoride and if you google oleic acid (found in olive oil) you'll find it is helpful for those who are HER2. The cruciferous family except for broccoli is goitrogenic which suppresses the thyroid gland. I noticed some women on the forum are having thyroid issues after tx.

Mimi, how do you keep track of the nutritional content of you daily meals. I have found nutritiondata

worked well for me and if the food isn't listed I can add it and create/analyze recipes.

Thanks again for the info, I think we can all benefit from it.
jan

chenheart said:

Nutritionist?????
Thanks, Mimi~ I am estrogen positive, but the nutrition sounds good all the way around~ even for those lucky ones who have never been visited by BC!

What struck me in your post were 3 words: Breast Cancer Nutritionist! I think, although I am still alive and kicking 6 years after treatment, that I was cared for in a conestoga wagon, being tended to by passersby! For example, I knew nothing about radiation boosters, I was not told about Emla creme for my port, all 206 bones in my body were agonizingly painful following each and every Neulasta shot and NO ONE (Dr or RNs) ever suggested I could or should take any pain killers, I never heard about free wigs, the list goes on and on! That someone actually talked to you about food choices is fabuous, but is leaving me speechless! Ok, and a bit envious! LOL LOL

I just realized it sounds as if I am complaining~ truly I am not. Well maybe a little! What this has taught me is to be a better advocate for my own health~ I wrongly assumed (my first mistake!) that anything I needed to know would automatically be told to me by my health care team! Well team is the wrong word, isn't it? I was in the game, but obviously sitting on the bench for most of it! :-)

So, thanks again Mimi for awakening these thoughts in me. Although I certainly hope I will NEVER need to communicate needs/wants with a Cancer Center ever again, I plan on being a better advocate for myself no matter why I am going to the Dr, or Dentist, for that matter! You have done me , and perhaps many others a great service with your post!

Hugs,
Claudia

Yes, Kindred Spirit...
... Much progress has been made, even in only the past 5-6 years - since you and I were treated. Which is, of course, FANTASTIC! We, and all of those like us - further out from diagnosis - have the opportunity to learn from our sisters who are newer to the BC world. It is a benefit of awareness.

And, yes - some, not all, doctors can become complacent with their long-term patients. As new developments emerge regarding BC treatments and after care, we must continue to be our own best advocates.

Kind regards, 12/25
(a/k/a Susan)

chenheart said:

Cancer Team???????
Interesting you say that our health care team doesn't have time to go over every detail with us! My health care team didn't go over ANYTHING with me! Not even hair loss or possible nausea! I remember going to chemo and the RN commenting that I still had my eyebrows. What???? I never knew I was going to lose them! I did a Relay For Life 5 weeks after surgery, and sat in a hot tub drinking wine after the walk. I had walked for 7 HOURS, and yes, my legs were killing me! No one told me I shouldn't sit in a super-heated tub, or drink wine, either!

Seriously, the ONLY thing my Dr has said to me ( at EVERY VISIT for 6 years) is that I am too fat! In 6 years I have gone from a size 10 to a 12, and that is the only thing he ever comments on. When I tell him I walk 3X a week, do Jazzercise 3X a week, and just pariticipated in a 5K or a half-marathon, you know what he does? He rolls his eyes and says that for that much exercise, he wonders why I'm still so fat. Sigh! I have been known to take a diuretic so I can pee all night before a Drs appointment.

Good thing I'm still here, huh??? And that I have a good sense of humor and a loving man in my life!

Hugs,
Claudia

chenheart - Size 12 is average...
The average American woman is a size 12. Since when does average = "fat"? I think your doctor lacks "bedside manners"! Obviously, he did not take the class which exists only within my own wishful imagination and should be required by ALL medical professionals: Empathy & Compassion for Patients.

Kind regards, 12/25
(a/k/a Susan)

Thank you!
Mimi, thank you so much for taking the time to post this very important information. I will make a copy of this and use as a reference.

Chen, omg a size 12 sweety I HAVE NEVER BEEN A SIZE 12 and how incredibly rude of your doctor. You my dear are fine, I only wish I had a bit of your energy.

Hugs,

RE

RE said:

Thank you!
Mimi, thank you so much for taking the time to post this very important information. I will make a copy of this and use as a reference.

Chen, omg a size 12 sweety I HAVE NEVER BEEN A SIZE 12 and how incredibly rude of your doctor. You my dear are fine, I only wish I had a bit of your energy.

Hugs,

RE

Mimi, how ironic you should
Mimi, how ironic you should make this post today, as I have been studying the effects of diet versus cancer and have come across an article, which I will post below. I think there are all kinds of helpful information available on the web, and certainly our nutritionist can be the most helpful of all. This article deals with asparagus, and actual case histories regarding the intake of just 4 tablespoons twice a day (pureed), which can also be placed in water to dilute the taste. Here it is:

ASPARAGUS
A lady had been taking the full-stalk canned style asparagus that she pureed and she took 4 tablespoons in the morning and 4 tablespoons later in the day. She did this for over a month. She is on chemo pills for Stage 3 lung cancer in the pleural area and her cancer cell count went from 386 down to 125 as of this past week. Her oncologist said she does not need to see him for 3 months.
==============================================
THE ARTICLE:
Several years ago, I had a man seeking asparagus for a friend who had cancer. He gave me a photocopied copy of an article, entitled,
`Asparagus for cancer' printed in Cancer News Journal, December 1979.
I will share it here, just as it was shared with me:
'I am a biochemist, and have specialized in the relation of diet to health for over 50 years. Several years ago, I learned of the discovery of Richard R. Vensal, D.D.S. that asparagus might cure cancer.
Since then, I have worked with him on his project. We have accumulated a number of favorable case histories. Here are a few examples:
Case No. 1, A man with an almost hopeless case of Hodgkin's disease (cancer of the lymph glands) who was completely incapacitated. Within 1 year of starting the asparagus therapy, his doctors were unable to detect any signs of cancer, and he was back on a schedule of strenuous exercise.
Case No. 2, a successful businessman 68 years old who suffered from cancer of the bladder for 16 years. After years of medical treatments, including radiation without improvement, he went on asparagus. Within 3 months, examinations revealed that his bladder tumor had disappeared and that his kidneys were normal.
Case No. 3, a man who had lung cancer. On March 5th 1971, he was put on the operating table where they found lung cancer so widely spread that it was inoperable. The surgeon sewed him up and declared his case hopeless On April 5th he heard about the asparagus therapy and immediately started taking it. By August, x-ray pictures revealed that all signs of the cancer had disappeared.. He is back at his regular business routine.
Case No. 4, a woman who was troubled for a number of years with skin cancer. She finally developed different skin cancers which were diagnosed by the acting specialist as advanced. Within 3 months after starting on asparagus, her skin specialist said that her skin looked fine and no more skin lesions. This woman reported that the asparagus therapy also cured her kidney disease, which started in 1949. She had over 10 operations for kidney stones, and was receiving government disability payments for an inoperable, terminal, kidney condition. She attributes the cure of this kidney trouble entirely to the asparagus.

I was not surprised at this result, as `The elements of materia medica', edited in 1854 by a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania , stated that asparagus was used as a popular remedy for kidney stones. He even referred to experiments, in 1739, on the power of asparagus in dissolving stones. Note the dates!
We would have other case histories but the medical establishment has interfered with our obtaining some of the records I am therefore appealing to readers to spread this good news and help us to gather a large number of case histories that will overwhelm the medical skeptics about this unbelievably simple and natural remedy.
For the treatment, asparagus should be cooked before using, and therefore canned asparagus is just as good as fresh.
I have corresponded with the two leading canners of asparagus, Giant and Stokely, and I am satisfied that these brands contain no pesticides or preservatives.
Place the cooked asparagus in a blender and liquefy to make a puree, and store in the refrigerator. Give the patient 4 full tablespoons twice daily, morning and evening.
Patients usually show some improvement in from 2-4 weeks. It can be diluted with water and used as a cold or hot drink. This suggested dosage is based on present experience, but certainly larger amounts can do no harm and may be needed in some cases.
As a biochemist I am convinced of the old saying that `what cures can prevent'. Based on this theory, my wife and I have been using asparagus puree as a beverage with our meals.
We take 2 tablespoons diluted in water to suit our taste with breakfast and with dinner. I take mine hot and my wife prefers hers cold. For years we have made it a practice to have blood surveys taken as part of our regular checkups.
The last blood survey, taken by a medical doctor who specializes in the nutritional approach to health, showed substantial improvements in all categories over the last one, and we can attribute these improvements to nothing but the asparagus drink...
As a biochemist, I have made an extensive study of all aspects of cancer, and all of the proposed cures As a result, I am convinced that asparagus fits in better with the latest theories about cancer. Asparagus contains a good supply of protein called histones, which are believed to be active in controlling cell growth. For that reason, I believe asparagus can be said to contain a substance that I call cell growth normalizer. That accounts for its action on cancer and in acting as a general body tonic.
In any event, regardless of theory, asparagus used as we suggest, is a harmless substance. The FDA cannot prevent you from using it and it may do you much good. It has been reported by the US National Cancer Institute, that asparagus is the highest tested food containing glutathione, which is considered one of the body's most potent anticarcinogens and antioxidants.
Please spread the news... the most unselfish act one can ever do is paying forward all the kindness one has received, even to the most undeserved person.

---------------------------------------

This does sound like the information has been available for years, and I often wonder if science has poo-pooed these types of suggestions because of their simplicity. This sounds harmless enough, and could actually add nutrition to your diet that would not adversely affect meds or other supplements....just a simple addition of a green vegetable. Certainly worth contemplating. Hugs,

Judy

mimivac said:

Alcohol!
Claudia, I don't think there was anything wrong at all with sitting in a hot tub and drinking wine. That sounds heavenly, especially after all that exercise. Maybe it would be problematic if you were in a hot tub every day, right after radiation treatments... Heat perpetuates radiation, so steam rooms, saunas, and hot tubs can increase the dosage of your treatments. I love a nice sauna after a good workout, so I'm not happy that I'll have to forgo this until three months after radiation has ended. Oh well.

As for alcohol, that's the one "good" thing about estrogen negative breast cancer: there is no real link between alcohol and the risk of recurrence for us. So, I've been told that I can drink in moderation and not worry about it. I immediately asked what "moderation" was, so they probably think I'm slinging them back every night.

A size 12 is hardly fat!! I think it's good that your doctor even cares about your weight (as many do not even bother), but really, that is overdoing it. I work in disability policy (for SSA) and specalize in obesity and its link to disability. I'm no doctor, but I would hardly call your size "fat." He sounds like a pleasure to work with....

Marcia, you make me laugh.
Marcia, you make me laugh. Asparagus is definitely one of those "acquired taste" veggies, and lots of people don't like them. However, they do have lots of antioxidents, and folic acid, and are high in vitamin contant. Just hold your nose, and swallow fast. LOL. The article has been said to be old and around for some time, and there are skeptics that don't think asparagus could have any bearing on cancer cure. However, I will add it to my diet to give myself just that little extra boost of "things" that are good for you. If nothing else, it is a "filler". Hugs.

Judy

creampuff91344 said:

Mimi, how ironic you should
Mimi, how ironic you should make this post today, as I have been studying the effects of diet versus cancer and have come across an article, which I will post below. I think there are all kinds of helpful information available on the web, and certainly our nutritionist can be the most helpful of all. This article deals with asparagus, and actual case histories regarding the intake of just 4 tablespoons twice a day (pureed), which can also be placed in water to dilute the taste. Here it is:

ASPARAGUS
A lady had been taking the full-stalk canned style asparagus that she pureed and she took 4 tablespoons in the morning and 4 tablespoons later in the day. She did this for over a month. She is on chemo pills for Stage 3 lung cancer in the pleural area and her cancer cell count went from 386 down to 125 as of this past week. Her oncologist said she does not need to see him for 3 months.
==============================================
THE ARTICLE:
Several years ago, I had a man seeking asparagus for a friend who had cancer. He gave me a photocopied copy of an article, entitled,
`Asparagus for cancer' printed in Cancer News Journal, December 1979.
I will share it here, just as it was shared with me:
'I am a biochemist, and have specialized in the relation of diet to health for over 50 years. Several years ago, I learned of the discovery of Richard R. Vensal, D.D.S. that asparagus might cure cancer.
Since then, I have worked with him on his project. We have accumulated a number of favorable case histories. Here are a few examples:
Case No. 1, A man with an almost hopeless case of Hodgkin's disease (cancer of the lymph glands) who was completely incapacitated. Within 1 year of starting the asparagus therapy, his doctors were unable to detect any signs of cancer, and he was back on a schedule of strenuous exercise.
Case No. 2, a successful businessman 68 years old who suffered from cancer of the bladder for 16 years. After years of medical treatments, including radiation without improvement, he went on asparagus. Within 3 months, examinations revealed that his bladder tumor had disappeared and that his kidneys were normal.
Case No. 3, a man who had lung cancer. On March 5th 1971, he was put on the operating table where they found lung cancer so widely spread that it was inoperable. The surgeon sewed him up and declared his case hopeless On April 5th he heard about the asparagus therapy and immediately started taking it. By August, x-ray pictures revealed that all signs of the cancer had disappeared.. He is back at his regular business routine.
Case No. 4, a woman who was troubled for a number of years with skin cancer. She finally developed different skin cancers which were diagnosed by the acting specialist as advanced. Within 3 months after starting on asparagus, her skin specialist said that her skin looked fine and no more skin lesions. This woman reported that the asparagus therapy also cured her kidney disease, which started in 1949. She had over 10 operations for kidney stones, and was receiving government disability payments for an inoperable, terminal, kidney condition. She attributes the cure of this kidney trouble entirely to the asparagus.

I was not surprised at this result, as `The elements of materia medica', edited in 1854 by a Professor at the University of Pennsylvania , stated that asparagus was used as a popular remedy for kidney stones. He even referred to experiments, in 1739, on the power of asparagus in dissolving stones. Note the dates!
We would have other case histories but the medical establishment has interfered with our obtaining some of the records I am therefore appealing to readers to spread this good news and help us to gather a large number of case histories that will overwhelm the medical skeptics about this unbelievably simple and natural remedy.
For the treatment, asparagus should be cooked before using, and therefore canned asparagus is just as good as fresh.
I have corresponded with the two leading canners of asparagus, Giant and Stokely, and I am satisfied that these brands contain no pesticides or preservatives.
Place the cooked asparagus in a blender and liquefy to make a puree, and store in the refrigerator. Give the patient 4 full tablespoons twice daily, morning and evening.
Patients usually show some improvement in from 2-4 weeks. It can be diluted with water and used as a cold or hot drink. This suggested dosage is based on present experience, but certainly larger amounts can do no harm and may be needed in some cases.
As a biochemist I am convinced of the old saying that `what cures can prevent'. Based on this theory, my wife and I have been using asparagus puree as a beverage with our meals.
We take 2 tablespoons diluted in water to suit our taste with breakfast and with dinner. I take mine hot and my wife prefers hers cold. For years we have made it a practice to have blood surveys taken as part of our regular checkups.
The last blood survey, taken by a medical doctor who specializes in the nutritional approach to health, showed substantial improvements in all categories over the last one, and we can attribute these improvements to nothing but the asparagus drink...
As a biochemist, I have made an extensive study of all aspects of cancer, and all of the proposed cures As a result, I am convinced that asparagus fits in better with the latest theories about cancer. Asparagus contains a good supply of protein called histones, which are believed to be active in controlling cell growth. For that reason, I believe asparagus can be said to contain a substance that I call cell growth normalizer. That accounts for its action on cancer and in acting as a general body tonic.
In any event, regardless of theory, asparagus used as we suggest, is a harmless substance. The FDA cannot prevent you from using it and it may do you much good. It has been reported by the US National Cancer Institute, that asparagus is the highest tested food containing glutathione, which is considered one of the body's most potent anticarcinogens and antioxidants.
Please spread the news... the most unselfish act one can ever do is paying forward all the kindness one has received, even to the most undeserved person.

---------------------------------------

This does sound like the information has been available for years, and I often wonder if science has poo-pooed these types of suggestions because of their simplicity. This sounds harmless enough, and could actually add nutrition to your diet that would not adversely affect meds or other supplements....just a simple addition of a green vegetable. Certainly worth contemplating. Hugs,

Judy

I know someone doing it
I know someone doing it right now for colon cancer but he's also undergoing conventional tx too. I found this little tidbit which may explain why some think it is beneficial for cancer patients.:

It has been reported by the US National Cancer Institute, that asparagus is the highest tested food containing glutathione, which is considered one of the body's most potent anticarcinogens and antioxidants.

HOpe it works for him.