Antioxidant supplements and chemotherapy

rthornton
rthornton Member Posts: 346 Member
edited March 2014 in Colorectal Cancer #1
This morning I met with the nutritionist at my oncologists office, and in the course of our conversation she mentioned that taking supplements that are high in antioxidants might diminish the effectiveness of chemotherapy and other anti-cancer drugs. Yet, I have read in a couple of sources that taking antioxident supplements does the opposite, it enhances the effectiveness of chemotherapy and anti-cancer drugs AND protects healthy tissue from the toxicity of those drugs. The conversation stemmed from my showing her the label of some high-potency multivitamins that someone gave to me (these vitamins are very high in A, C, and E, all of which the nutritionist seemed not to like in such potent dosages). Does anyone have any ideas on whether or not it's good to take antioxidant drugs while going through a chemotherapy regimen? It really seems to be a topic about which there is little agreement among health care professionals.

Rodney

Comments

  • rthornton
    rthornton Member Posts: 346 Member
    #2
    Oh ... these particular vitamins are called "Alive! by Nature's Way".

    RT
  • alihamilton
    alihamilton Member Posts: 347 Member
    #3
    I know my husband was told not to take them while in treatment...could start taking antioxidants as soon as treatment finished. It will be interesting to see what others say.

    All the best,

    Ali
  • markatger
    markatger Member Posts: 314
    #4
    Hi ya Rodney!

    I went and saw a naturopath today and discussed the same thing. I also got the impression that this is highly debatable and very "partisan" ... depends which camp you're in. Which unfortunately leaves us uncertain about what to do. I of course don't want to minimize the potency of chemo, but heck I also would love maximize its potency with supplements as well as protect myself from getting future cancers from chemo or radiation.

    On Monday, I'm giving the list of my naturopaths "presciptions" to my Oncologist to be approved before I use them. I think most of what she gave me will be ok, she said she wasn't giving me high doses of anything.

    Maybe you could see a naturopath for some guidance too. The place I'm going to is called The Cancer Treatment and Wellness Center. It is naturopaths (N.D.) and onoclogists(M.D) working together. My insurance will pay for 3 visits which I may be able to get extended, but also the ND told me she had a sliding scale if I didn't have insurance coverage for it.

    As of now I am leaning towards a decision of avoiding high doses of anti-oxidants while I am on treatment. That is just my comfort level. There are other supplements and nutrition strategies besides anti-oxidants. One interesting thing I heard today was a tactic of consuming a fair amounnt of sugar the day of chemo. As you know, cancer loves sugar. And chemo targets rapidly dividing cells. so if you feed the cancer then it will be targeted better. Not sure how proven this is...but makes sense to me. The sugar probaly should still be from an un-refined source.

    Anywho...just sympathizing with your dilemma...I'm a supplement newbie myself, but I'll let you know what my oncologist says on Monday.

    Hope you are doing great,
    Maria
  • chynabear
    chynabear Member Posts: 481 Member
    #5
    markatger said:

    Hi ya Rodney!

    I went and saw a naturopath today and discussed the same thing. I also got the impression that this is highly debatable and very "partisan" ... depends which camp you're in. Which unfortunately leaves us uncertain about what to do. I of course don't want to minimize the potency of chemo, but heck I also would love maximize its potency with supplements as well as protect myself from getting future cancers from chemo or radiation.

    On Monday, I'm giving the list of my naturopaths "presciptions" to my Oncologist to be approved before I use them. I think most of what she gave me will be ok, she said she wasn't giving me high doses of anything.

    Maybe you could see a naturopath for some guidance too. The place I'm going to is called The Cancer Treatment and Wellness Center. It is naturopaths (N.D.) and onoclogists(M.D) working together. My insurance will pay for 3 visits which I may be able to get extended, but also the ND told me she had a sliding scale if I didn't have insurance coverage for it.

    As of now I am leaning towards a decision of avoiding high doses of anti-oxidants while I am on treatment. That is just my comfort level. There are other supplements and nutrition strategies besides anti-oxidants. One interesting thing I heard today was a tactic of consuming a fair amounnt of sugar the day of chemo. As you know, cancer loves sugar. And chemo targets rapidly dividing cells. so if you feed the cancer then it will be targeted better. Not sure how proven this is...but makes sense to me. The sugar probaly should still be from an un-refined source.

    Anywho...just sympathizing with your dilemma...I'm a supplement newbie myself, but I'll let you know what my oncologist says on Monday.

    Hope you are doing great,
    Maria

    Wow, what a difficult subject. My oncologist was ok with everything I was taking during treatment (other than the birth control) including a good multi-vit and a couple of supplements.

    I am reading "Beating Cancer with Nutrition" By DR. Quillin PhD, RD, CNS and what he has to say makes a lot of sense about our immune systems and nutrition and fighting cancer. He is a strong advocate for taking the right nutritional supplements and antioxidants before/during/after treatment while also making diet and lifestyle improvements.

    Here is a small section from his book titled, "PRO-OXIDANTS VS ANTIXIDANTS" on pg 42.
    *****
    Our greatest enemy is oxygen, since it generates free radicals (a.k.a. pro-oxidants, reactive oxygen species), which can damage the delicate DNA, immune factors, and cell membranes. Yet our greatest ally is a well-oxygenated system. How, then, to balance this seeming paradox? A well-oxygenated (aerobic) system along with optimal protection from free radicals via antioxidants is the ideal combination for good health. Free radicals cannot be elimiated in the human body, but must be controlled, or they turn into "forest fires" that devastate the cells.

    A strategic blend of antioxidants can provide broad-spectrum protection against damage from chemotherapy and radiation therapy, protecting the immune cells from their own poisons and improving vigor in the cancer patient undergoing treatment. Vitamins C, E, beta-carotene, selenium, lipoic acid, lycopene, glutathion, tocotrienols, quercetin, coenzyme Q, oligomeric proanthocyanidins from grape seed, curcumin, ginkgo biloba, and green tea provide antioxidant protection.
    *****
    Dr. Quillin also goes on to give patient profiles where patients have gone against the advice of Oncologists and taken antioxidants anyway and have faired better through the treatments than anyone could have pictured. He also gives patient profiles where patients did not use any supplements or antioxidants and succomb to the disease.

    I know we are at a stage that we are trying to "do the right thing" in regards to our health and treatment and it makes it difficult with so many contradicting opinions. my recommendation, find a couple of excellent doctors and get multiple opinions of how they feel and why. Good luck with what you decide.

    Patricia
  • rthornton
    rthornton Member Posts: 346 Member
    #6
    chynabear said:

    Wow, what a difficult subject. My oncologist was ok with everything I was taking during treatment (other than the birth control) including a good multi-vit and a couple of supplements.

    I am reading "Beating Cancer with Nutrition" By DR. Quillin PhD, RD, CNS and what he has to say makes a lot of sense about our immune systems and nutrition and fighting cancer. He is a strong advocate for taking the right nutritional supplements and antioxidants before/during/after treatment while also making diet and lifestyle improvements.

    Here is a small section from his book titled, "PRO-OXIDANTS VS ANTIXIDANTS" on pg 42.
    *****
    Our greatest enemy is oxygen, since it generates free radicals (a.k.a. pro-oxidants, reactive oxygen species), which can damage the delicate DNA, immune factors, and cell membranes. Yet our greatest ally is a well-oxygenated system. How, then, to balance this seeming paradox? A well-oxygenated (aerobic) system along with optimal protection from free radicals via antioxidants is the ideal combination for good health. Free radicals cannot be elimiated in the human body, but must be controlled, or they turn into "forest fires" that devastate the cells.

    A strategic blend of antioxidants can provide broad-spectrum protection against damage from chemotherapy and radiation therapy, protecting the immune cells from their own poisons and improving vigor in the cancer patient undergoing treatment. Vitamins C, E, beta-carotene, selenium, lipoic acid, lycopene, glutathion, tocotrienols, quercetin, coenzyme Q, oligomeric proanthocyanidins from grape seed, curcumin, ginkgo biloba, and green tea provide antioxidant protection.
    *****
    Dr. Quillin also goes on to give patient profiles where patients have gone against the advice of Oncologists and taken antioxidants anyway and have faired better through the treatments than anyone could have pictured. He also gives patient profiles where patients did not use any supplements or antioxidants and succomb to the disease.

    I know we are at a stage that we are trying to "do the right thing" in regards to our health and treatment and it makes it difficult with so many contradicting opinions. my recommendation, find a couple of excellent doctors and get multiple opinions of how they feel and why. Good luck with what you decide.

    Patricia

    Yes, Patricia, I am reading the same book and read the chapter on Antioxidants, which directly contrasted the advice given by the nutritionist at my oncologist's office. But for a number of reasons, I have only lukewarm confidence in the advice that she gives me. In fact, I would totally ignore her advice, except that I have seen many sources on the internet discouraging the use of antioxidant supplements during chemotherapy. And, of course, I have also seen internet sources encouraging the use of antioxidant supplements during chemotherapy.

    So, I wrote an email to one of the speakers at a colon cancer seminar I recently attended, asking her about this issue. We talked for a few minutes after the seminar, so she will hopefully remember me. I am still awaiting a reply from her.

    It is frustrating with all the differing opinions.

    Rodney
  • CAMaura
    CAMaura Member Posts: 719 Member
    #7
    chynabear said:

    Wow, what a difficult subject. My oncologist was ok with everything I was taking during treatment (other than the birth control) including a good multi-vit and a couple of supplements.

    I am reading "Beating Cancer with Nutrition" By DR. Quillin PhD, RD, CNS and what he has to say makes a lot of sense about our immune systems and nutrition and fighting cancer. He is a strong advocate for taking the right nutritional supplements and antioxidants before/during/after treatment while also making diet and lifestyle improvements.

    Here is a small section from his book titled, "PRO-OXIDANTS VS ANTIXIDANTS" on pg 42.
    *****
    Our greatest enemy is oxygen, since it generates free radicals (a.k.a. pro-oxidants, reactive oxygen species), which can damage the delicate DNA, immune factors, and cell membranes. Yet our greatest ally is a well-oxygenated system. How, then, to balance this seeming paradox? A well-oxygenated (aerobic) system along with optimal protection from free radicals via antioxidants is the ideal combination for good health. Free radicals cannot be elimiated in the human body, but must be controlled, or they turn into "forest fires" that devastate the cells.

    A strategic blend of antioxidants can provide broad-spectrum protection against damage from chemotherapy and radiation therapy, protecting the immune cells from their own poisons and improving vigor in the cancer patient undergoing treatment. Vitamins C, E, beta-carotene, selenium, lipoic acid, lycopene, glutathion, tocotrienols, quercetin, coenzyme Q, oligomeric proanthocyanidins from grape seed, curcumin, ginkgo biloba, and green tea provide antioxidant protection.
    *****
    Dr. Quillin also goes on to give patient profiles where patients have gone against the advice of Oncologists and taken antioxidants anyway and have faired better through the treatments than anyone could have pictured. He also gives patient profiles where patients did not use any supplements or antioxidants and succomb to the disease.

    I know we are at a stage that we are trying to "do the right thing" in regards to our health and treatment and it makes it difficult with so many contradicting opinions. my recommendation, find a couple of excellent doctors and get multiple opinions of how they feel and why. Good luck with what you decide.

    Patricia

    Hi Everyone,
    Rodney, thank you for bringing up this topic. I was ready to post last night about how my onc advised against antioxidants, buthought I would look around online. There are many differing ideas. Patricia's exerpt is so interesting - and seemingly logical. I didn't take anything during chemo (except B6 for neuropathy); and not sursprisingly, I have never felt worse in my life. When my liver became impacted by the chemicals, I went off chemo and immediately started a strong nutritional/supplementation regimen.
    I am encouraged by the fact that the office you went to had both a Naturopath and an oncologist. To be honest, I fear just about every day that I have permanently damaged my body by the chemo. I could kick myslef now for accepting everything point-blank from my onc, but understand how out-of-it I was feeling. Maybe some of it could have been avoided with supplements, but all I can do is go forward as strongly as possible. I really commend you for being so proactive right now and challenging the conventional wisdom of the majority of western docs. I hope this string continues. And Patricia, thanks for posting the exerpt - really motivating. Best of luck and I hope I see more info or opinions.
    Cheers-Maura
  • 2bhealed
    2bhealed Member Posts: 2,064 Member
    #8
    Hi Rodney,

    Isn't it a drag when info is so conflicting? Even within the Alternative Medicine world there is conflicting opinions. It just gets so dang confusing.

    What does your gut tell you?

    Since you are already reading the best book I have read on the subject you have the opportunity to decide if you want to embrace his knowledge on the subject or not. It's a matter of trust sometimes. Trusting your instincts, trusting your onc, trusting Dr. Quillin, trusting God.

    What feels right to you? What makes sense to you? What do YOU believe is best for your body?

    On the other hand, I would find a Naturopathic Doctor who is well versed in nutrition for cancer.

    Hope this helps.

    peace, emily
  • scouty
    scouty Member Posts: 1,965 Member
    #9
    I took supplements while on chemo but got my oncs approval for every one. He would run it by the pharmacist for "approval". My onc told me that the whole thing about supplements was "old news" and there was no data to support most of them from impacting chemo's effectiveness. Ask your onc, not a nurse. FYI...a nutritionist is very very different from a naturopathic doctor. One is trained in dietary foods (nutrition) and the other is trained in the healing powers of foods and other supplements (clinical nutrition).

    Lisa P.

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