hope this does not embarras anyone

Hi Marilyn:

I don't believe anyone here will be embarrassed by your sharing this. I'm certainly not. And I hope that the things I'm about to say won't offend anyone.

And yes, chemo can cause all of our hormones (not just our "sex" hormones) to go askew and this can effect our even having interest in sexual intimacy, let alone, getting down to it, only to find ourselves having difficulties.

I mean, with hot flashes, night sweats, fatigue, aches and pains, fears and worries, pains shooting about our bodies without warning of any kind, swellings and things coming and going, insomnia, teeth problems, headaches, dry skin out of nowhere, bumps and discolorings, major body changes, nerve damage, tendons acting up, our hormones on a roller coaster and then, to top it all off, we often can't remember where we put our purse! Major panic happens then because we cannot live without some of the things in our purses and why don't we know where it is anyway? Add to that, the fact that we spend, at least immediately following treatment, half our time going from one stressful doc appoint. to the next, it's no wonder we seem to have become strange and unfamiliar to those who knew us when! Whew. Who'd think we'd even CONSIDER the notion of sex of any kind, involving our personal participation??? Here we've got no energy, no zip and no concentration ability, we're working on issues galore and yet we try like troopers to get on with the "ordinary" things of living, including sexual realtions!!! We're a heck of a bunch of ladies. I'll say that proudly and often! I'm am forever amazed at what we can do and overcome, while continuing to walk upright. I mean that in the most complimentary fashion.

As a friend of mine explained it, it's like a blockage in the pipes of some sort! She didn't say whether she meant physical or emotional blockages/pipes. I didn't ask. At the time I was having quite enough issues as it was.

We go through a lot with bc. We get scared half to death. Cut upon. Have the vile affliction surgically removed then diced and examined to high heavens. Following, we get handed frightening pathological results. We struggle to even think. For most of us, it's then on to the whole body internal frying...the dread A/C, with or without the T. With or without the Herceptin. We get through somehow. Emerging hairless, (yet still bold and beautiful) many of us next graduate to specific external frying. That being the dread RT. If we still have the energy to put one foot in front of the other, some of us move on to the long term therapy of Tamoxifen and its relatives. The pro's then smile at us and say, ok, you're all done and everything looks good. See you in 3 months. Go home and ??? What's that you say? Go home? You mean you're not coming with me? Really! To expect to just resume our lives, including our sexual lives, as if nothing happened, would be, at the VERY least, a bit much, I think.

Just had to lay out a few specifics there, just in case anyone should have trouble grasping the issues. LOL Now, to some thoughts about the problem: Don't laugh, but there are rings (sort of expander type gizmos) which can possibly help your husband to be comfortable penetrating your vagina and help yourself to be comfortable at the same time. They are graduated in size and each size is used for a specific period of time, etc.. I know these were used some years ago because when a friend got married, they discovered on their wedding night that they simply did not fit, so to speak. Her gynecologist supplied her with the rings and KY Jelly (I think the jelly has been around since the beginning of time as a cure all, LOL), instructions and helped her along and it took care of their problem over a few weeks time. I'm thinking that if these devices are still used, they could be helpful to you? Worth asking I think.

As I understand it, mental/emotional tension can also create penetration issues, so perhaps if you're not in the mood or if you're distracted, that could add to the problem. Also, if you haven't yet adjusted emotionally to your mastectomies, it's possible that your feelings are sub-consciously prohibiting sexual union? You didn't say if you're uncomfortable when your husband tries to penetrate, but if you have pain, then your gynecologist must be consulted.

Idalia is right on the money about the tissues thinning out/drying out, etc.. Our vagina's can become strange and alien parts of our anatomy, after great changes, but typicaly, nothing insurmountable. As Idalia said, creativity can certainly help. Menopause can cause many/varied sexual functional problems, all by its little self, not to mention, chemo. The two together have the potential to render a wallop. (Strange, but I don't seem to recall seeing these things listed as side effects on the chemo "consent to treat" forms! LOL) We learn much, AFTER the fact!

My guess is that lubricants (internal and external)may be helpful? If you haven't given those a go, you could try Replens and KY Jelly, etc. There are quite a few such products on the market. (I've used both when needed and suffice it to say that I'm grateful for such products!)

I highly recommend consulting with your gynecologist on this and don't be shy. Just say what the problem is and let him/her take it from there. Some gyns may get red faced while other's don't bat an eyelash, but we go to them and pay them for help/advice, so we have every right to expect to leave, having had our concerns/issues addressed properly. It's a good idea to also have a vaginal exam, just to be certain there's no infection or other unknown thing going on there which may be contributing to the difficulty.

Hope some of those thoughts may be helpful to you. The main thing is that you must get to the bottom of it because it's important that you and your husband be able to enjoy your beautiful, sexually expressive intimacy, to your mutual satisfaction and be comfortable with whatever is necessary to achieve that. Barring physical reasons for the troubles, I'd not think twice about getting counseling to further explore it.

Warm hugs and best wishes.

Love, light and laughter,
Ink

Hounddog,

My oncologist recommended using lubricated condoms as well as lubricant. Took time and patience, no quickies, but were able to make it a pleasurable experince for both.

LOL

inkblot said:

Hi Marilyn:

I don't believe anyone here will be embarrassed by your sharing this. I'm certainly not. And I hope that the things I'm about to say won't offend anyone.

And yes, chemo can cause all of our hormones (not just our "sex" hormones) to go askew and this can effect our even having interest in sexual intimacy, let alone, getting down to it, only to find ourselves having difficulties.

I mean, with hot flashes, night sweats, fatigue, aches and pains, fears and worries, pains shooting about our bodies without warning of any kind, swellings and things coming and going, insomnia, teeth problems, headaches, dry skin out of nowhere, bumps and discolorings, major body changes, nerve damage, tendons acting up, our hormones on a roller coaster and then, to top it all off, we often can't remember where we put our purse! Major panic happens then because we cannot live without some of the things in our purses and why don't we know where it is anyway? Add to that, the fact that we spend, at least immediately following treatment, half our time going from one stressful doc appoint. to the next, it's no wonder we seem to have become strange and unfamiliar to those who knew us when! Whew. Who'd think we'd even CONSIDER the notion of sex of any kind, involving our personal participation??? Here we've got no energy, no zip and no concentration ability, we're working on issues galore and yet we try like troopers to get on with the "ordinary" things of living, including sexual realtions!!! We're a heck of a bunch of ladies. I'll say that proudly and often! I'm am forever amazed at what we can do and overcome, while continuing to walk upright. I mean that in the most complimentary fashion.

As a friend of mine explained it, it's like a blockage in the pipes of some sort! She didn't say whether she meant physical or emotional blockages/pipes. I didn't ask. At the time I was having quite enough issues as it was.

We go through a lot with bc. We get scared half to death. Cut upon. Have the vile affliction surgically removed then diced and examined to high heavens. Following, we get handed frightening pathological results. We struggle to even think. For most of us, it's then on to the whole body internal frying...the dread A/C, with or without the T. With or without the Herceptin. We get through somehow. Emerging hairless, (yet still bold and beautiful) many of us next graduate to specific external frying. That being the dread RT. If we still have the energy to put one foot in front of the other, some of us move on to the long term therapy of Tamoxifen and its relatives. The pro's then smile at us and say, ok, you're all done and everything looks good. See you in 3 months. Go home and ??? What's that you say? Go home? You mean you're not coming with me? Really! To expect to just resume our lives, including our sexual lives, as if nothing happened, would be, at the VERY least, a bit much, I think.

Just had to lay out a few specifics there, just in case anyone should have trouble grasping the issues. LOL Now, to some thoughts about the problem: Don't laugh, but there are rings (sort of expander type gizmos) which can possibly help your husband to be comfortable penetrating your vagina and help yourself to be comfortable at the same time. They are graduated in size and each size is used for a specific period of time, etc.. I know these were used some years ago because when a friend got married, they discovered on their wedding night that they simply did not fit, so to speak. Her gynecologist supplied her with the rings and KY Jelly (I think the jelly has been around since the beginning of time as a cure all, LOL), instructions and helped her along and it took care of their problem over a few weeks time. I'm thinking that if these devices are still used, they could be helpful to you? Worth asking I think.

As I understand it, mental/emotional tension can also create penetration issues, so perhaps if you're not in the mood or if you're distracted, that could add to the problem. Also, if you haven't yet adjusted emotionally to your mastectomies, it's possible that your feelings are sub-consciously prohibiting sexual union? You didn't say if you're uncomfortable when your husband tries to penetrate, but if you have pain, then your gynecologist must be consulted.

Idalia is right on the money about the tissues thinning out/drying out, etc.. Our vagina's can become strange and alien parts of our anatomy, after great changes, but typicaly, nothing insurmountable. As Idalia said, creativity can certainly help. Menopause can cause many/varied sexual functional problems, all by its little self, not to mention, chemo. The two together have the potential to render a wallop. (Strange, but I don't seem to recall seeing these things listed as side effects on the chemo "consent to treat" forms! LOL) We learn much, AFTER the fact!

My guess is that lubricants (internal and external)may be helpful? If you haven't given those a go, you could try Replens and KY Jelly, etc. There are quite a few such products on the market. (I've used both when needed and suffice it to say that I'm grateful for such products!)

I highly recommend consulting with your gynecologist on this and don't be shy. Just say what the problem is and let him/her take it from there. Some gyns may get red faced while other's don't bat an eyelash, but we go to them and pay them for help/advice, so we have every right to expect to leave, having had our concerns/issues addressed properly. It's a good idea to also have a vaginal exam, just to be certain there's no infection or other unknown thing going on there which may be contributing to the difficulty.

Hope some of those thoughts may be helpful to you. The main thing is that you must get to the bottom of it because it's important that you and your husband be able to enjoy your beautiful, sexually expressive intimacy, to your mutual satisfaction and be comfortable with whatever is necessary to achieve that. Barring physical reasons for the troubles, I'd not think twice about getting counseling to further explore it.

Warm hugs and best wishes.

Love, light and laughter,
Ink

Hi Ink,
I entirely agree with what you said about womens daily duties.. esp while undergoing therapy. I applaud women for their strength. Women are the foundation of the family... and the family is the foundation of society. Kudos to the women. God bless.