This War...

jeancmici said:

Frankly I'm thoroughly disgusted that we are in this war. It was unnecessary - in the 21st century, we should be better able to solve our problems. I am heartsick at the loss of lives on both sides. In 1991 I was 'on our side '- pro victory for us because we went to help Kuwait who had been invaded and ASKED for help. The present situation was stirring up a hornet's nest. Even if we finish this with a minimum of lives lost, there will be repercussion for years to come to say nothing of our economy.

I wish all those reading here who are actively fighting cancer now with chemo/radiation/ etc. some peace of mind - concentrate on the most important thing for each of you now - getting and staying well.

God bless us all.
Jean

hummingbyrd said:

Sorry jean but 'disgusting' was flying 2 planes into the twin towers, 'cowardly' is underhandedly getting on 3 civilian airplanes and killing so many innocent people. Severe 'injustice' has been committed by the world letting a sadistic dictator starve, torture and terrorize an entire country of people, with the exception of an elite few. I mean get real how cruel can that be?
Saddam gave refuge to the 'Al Cowards' who came over and out of nowhere killed OUR PEOPLE, for what? I'd like to know what the employees of the twin towers did exactly to deserve to die on 9/11?
We are right now in the process of sending bread over to feed 200,000 people. BREAD! how many of us throw away a partial loaf of somewhat stale bread with out a thought? What's wrong with this picture? Iraq has enough oil their people ought to be living in at least a middle class stature, not poverty. Yet I see only an elite few who live in palaces. Letting this 'laissez~faire' lifestyle of suppression, in my opinion, is the true atrocity!
In regards to my 'coping' with the war I look to the Lord for peace of mind and He provides it.

Be strong and of good courage...the Lord thy God is with thee wherever thou goest. Joshua 1:9
Your best source of information is The Holy Bible. Read the Book and you will find comfort, hope, peace and faith. It will also tell you exactly what has happened and what will happen. It has withstood 2003 years of scrutiny, and will continue to stand because it is the Word of God! If God is for you who can be against you?
We cannot let the people of Iraq suffer such shameful treatment just because we fear the possibility of retaliation! If we don't defeat this brutal dictator out of sheer humanity then do it for self-protection. Again I say get real! Saddam protected the group who downed the twin towers, part of the pentagon and a 3rd COMMERCIAL plane that anyone of us could have been on or possibly some may have had family on! Remember the man who called home to say goodbye to his wife? Who asked the operator to pray with him before he and those other brave individuals aborted the terroist 'mission'? Does anyone honestly think this maddas saddam would have stopped with dominating Iraq? Think about it.
What are we protesting? The freeing of a suppressed nation?
Oh yes, please pull our brave soldiers out of Iraq now. Let the psychopathic killer take charge again. Give him another 12 years to reign over his people and perfect his sadism.
Has anyone noticed the correlation between saddam, maddas and sadism? You have a wealth of info at your fingertips, use it and see what you uncover.
This nation was built on the idealism of freedom, does that just apply to us?
The prince of the air has caused mass confusion and misdirection in this nation. We need to remember it is in God we trust, we need to return to being one nation under God and to never forget we are where we are because we've sung out God bless America.
This country may have its faults, but our standard of living, our level of medical expertize, our educational opportunities are available because our Christian forefathers fought for them and put their faith in God. Take God out of this country and you will see its downfall.
Just look at the public school system, no prayer, no discipline, no morality taught...
these truths ARE held to be self-evident. No, no, no, when these kids grow up that's exactly what they will have NO respect, NO honor, NO boundaries and guess what. We are going to be the generation of baby booming elderly of NO value, because we allowed everyone the 'freedom to just do what feels right for me'. I bet over 50% of students today couldn't recite the 10 Commandments, it wouldn't surprise me if half the people under 25 don't know them. That's because they aren't taught, thank you Madeline O'wonder where you are now?
God's Word says 'train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it'. Proverbs 22:6
Ha, there's a fear to mull over. Generations coming to be in power that have been taught to 'do what feels right'.
We better take heed now and recognize 'if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything'.
"The strength of a nation is evidenced by its people, who stand together, when there is nothing to stand against.", T.Byrd.
Air is nothing, the prince of the air is Satan. See Ephesians 2:2
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord, without fear, even unto death. Ahhh, the true freedom! The freedom of faith in God!
The great Martin Luther King said it all when he said, 'Free at last, free at last, thank GOD we are free at last'. Amen to that!
May God bless us all. hummingbyrd

hummingbyrd said:

Sorry jean but 'disgusting' was flying 2 planes into the twin towers, 'cowardly' is underhandedly getting on 3 civilian airplanes and killing so many innocent people. Severe 'injustice' has been committed by the world letting a sadistic dictator starve, torture and terrorize an entire country of people, with the exception of an elite few. I mean get real how cruel can that be?
Saddam gave refuge to the 'Al Cowards' who came over and out of nowhere killed OUR PEOPLE, for what? I'd like to know what the employees of the twin towers did exactly to deserve to die on 9/11?
We are right now in the process of sending bread over to feed 200,000 people. BREAD! how many of us throw away a partial loaf of somewhat stale bread with out a thought? What's wrong with this picture? Iraq has enough oil their people ought to be living in at least a middle class stature, not poverty. Yet I see only an elite few who live in palaces. Letting this 'laissez~faire' lifestyle of suppression, in my opinion, is the true atrocity!
In regards to my 'coping' with the war I look to the Lord for peace of mind and He provides it.

Be strong and of good courage...the Lord thy God is with thee wherever thou goest. Joshua 1:9
Your best source of information is The Holy Bible. Read the Book and you will find comfort, hope, peace and faith. It will also tell you exactly what has happened and what will happen. It has withstood 2003 years of scrutiny, and will continue to stand because it is the Word of God! If God is for you who can be against you?
We cannot let the people of Iraq suffer such shameful treatment just because we fear the possibility of retaliation! If we don't defeat this brutal dictator out of sheer humanity then do it for self-protection. Again I say get real! Saddam protected the group who downed the twin towers, part of the pentagon and a 3rd COMMERCIAL plane that anyone of us could have been on or possibly some may have had family on! Remember the man who called home to say goodbye to his wife? Who asked the operator to pray with him before he and those other brave individuals aborted the terroist 'mission'? Does anyone honestly think this maddas saddam would have stopped with dominating Iraq? Think about it.
What are we protesting? The freeing of a suppressed nation?
Oh yes, please pull our brave soldiers out of Iraq now. Let the psychopathic killer take charge again. Give him another 12 years to reign over his people and perfect his sadism.
Has anyone noticed the correlation between saddam, maddas and sadism? You have a wealth of info at your fingertips, use it and see what you uncover.
This nation was built on the idealism of freedom, does that just apply to us?
The prince of the air has caused mass confusion and misdirection in this nation. We need to remember it is in God we trust, we need to return to being one nation under God and to never forget we are where we are because we've sung out God bless America.
This country may have its faults, but our standard of living, our level of medical expertize, our educational opportunities are available because our Christian forefathers fought for them and put their faith in God. Take God out of this country and you will see its downfall.
Just look at the public school system, no prayer, no discipline, no morality taught...
these truths ARE held to be self-evident. No, no, no, when these kids grow up that's exactly what they will have NO respect, NO honor, NO boundaries and guess what. We are going to be the generation of baby booming elderly of NO value, because we allowed everyone the 'freedom to just do what feels right for me'. I bet over 50% of students today couldn't recite the 10 Commandments, it wouldn't surprise me if half the people under 25 don't know them. That's because they aren't taught, thank you Madeline O'wonder where you are now?
God's Word says 'train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it'. Proverbs 22:6
Ha, there's a fear to mull over. Generations coming to be in power that have been taught to 'do what feels right'.
We better take heed now and recognize 'if you don't stand for something you will fall for anything'.
"The strength of a nation is evidenced by its people, who stand together, when there is nothing to stand against.", T.Byrd.
Air is nothing, the prince of the air is Satan. See Ephesians 2:2
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord, without fear, even unto death. Ahhh, the true freedom! The freedom of faith in God!
The great Martin Luther King said it all when he said, 'Free at last, free at last, thank GOD we are free at last'. Amen to that!
May God bless us all. hummingbyrd

hummingbyrd said:

Hi Ink thanks for the response but.....

Excuse me did you say INSPECTIONS WORK? Bush JUMP the gun? Please, this has been going on for a year! We went before the UN last year with our concerns regarding Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction! Pres Bush gave Saddam at least 3 deadlines to comply with UN sanctions. Yes, inspectors were in Iraq but, they didn't even find the 100 acre area that contained chemicals for use in biological warfare. Saddam's regime just stated today IF we cross a certain 'line' drawn around Baghdad they WILL release biological weapons. Do you think he just concocted these chemicals this past week after the UN Inspectors left? or were they there the whole time? Saddam has been putting the nation's money into weapons of mass destruction. Mean while his people are starving under his dictatorship! We are much more concerned about the Iraqi people and their safety then he.
We specifically aim at regime headquarters, not civilians, trying desperately to protect the innocent. While the 'Republic regime' will use their own people as human shields in battle. Do you honestly think these people 'love' their leader? We aren't out to kill the innocent! Wake up Ink - Saddam's killing them already - we are trying to FREE them!
AND...
No, I don't hate the Muslims, not at all. To be honest Ink I feel exactly the opposite of hatred for them. I feel heart broken that they are treated so inhumanely. This atrocious travesty has gone on for 12 years. I can't believe ANYONE would be so callous they would not want to go in and free these people. Our government wants to free them, see to it they stay free and protect them until they become stable under their own leadership.
The only people who you might perceive that I am angry with are Saddam and his barbaric leaders, and the people protesting in America who broke the law. Those who harmed others, damaged property and in general disrupted activities of daily living in some of our busiest cities. I don't 'hate' any of these people including Saddam. In fact I pray for him. What a testimony to God if Saddam were to change his ways and become a Christian!
As far as the protests here, if they were peacefully protesting fine. To violently protest war is a bit contradictory, don't you think?
Yes we are to love our neighbor, and that's exactly what we are talking about, human lives, and our love for them. These people have been tortured for 12 years. How long do we 'talk it over' before we help these poor people. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks they can disarm a dictator peacefully is out of touch with reality. Besides if he doesn't have weapons what is there to disarm? I suggest you look up the definition of dictator.
As far as their religion that's their choice. I would never force my beliefs on anyone else. You asked how other's were coping with the war. I told you how I am coping, not that everyone MUST find peace in the Lord. I will share the Gospel with anyone who wants to listen...that's it...if they accept Christ as their Savior GREAT! if they don't that's their decision. My best friend is not saved I'm sad to say. Non-the-less I still love her and we get along great.
In regards to the Quran - no it's NOT worthless - I never even insinuated that! You light candles for peace. Does that mean lighting an incense is wrong and intolerable to you? For those who believe in the Quran it's a very valuable book, as valuable to the Muslims as the Bible is to me! I respect that as their decision.
In regards to world peace, anyone watching the news should be aware of the fact that certain countries have been selling weapons and descrambling devices to Saddam. Got to wonder if their ultimate underlying motive for this activity was world peace.
I find it appalling for a government to hide its television broadcasting network within a day care center, use their own people as human shields, and torture our brave soldiers. Those that do that are cowards! They have NO honor, NO duty and NO respect for humanity!
Love, light and laughter is a nice sentiment.
However, my prayer for you is that you find the way, the truth and the life. I mean that with utmost sincerity.
God bless you. hummingbyrd

inkblot said:

Hummb:
Hi Humb:

Choosing to believe our own governments propaganda is ok. We all believe in something. But, trust me, there's a whole other side to the story. There always is.

Attempting to debate the actual tactics of the war is futile. It's a "he said, she said" situation. There always has been and always will be torture in war. It isn't about which side is treating their prisoner's better. It isn't about where a tv station is located. It isn't about what we're aiming at...it's about our legal right to aim, as well as what we hit. Just the percussion of some of the US bombs, can blow out the eardrums of people not even close to the point of impact. It's about the fact that the United States has waged an illegal war upon Iraq. Why do we need the UN if one person can decide to unilaterally dictate to the rest of the world?

Resolution 1441 left a bit to be desired in its ambiguous language. Resolution 377A, however, is quite clear in intent, language and purpose and can stop this madness if invoked by either Mr. Secretary Adnan or any ambassador of the permanent member nations. It remains to be seen whether this will happen. Still, I hold hope.

There is still much we can peacefully do. I do not believe in violence but others do. Some choose to follow our president's example and resort to violence, in their efforts to be heard and I cannot speak for that faction. I do not approve of it but there it is. Have you wondered why people, in so many countries, are protesting in such great numbers?

Your questions reflect that you've repeated a common error in judgment by assuming that those of us opposed to this war, must therefore be supportive of Saddam Hussein. That isn't even remotely the case. Having said that, Bush's own actions are dictatorial and he clearly demonstrated to what extent, when he broke international law and took matters into his own hands.

I wouldn't hold my breath awaiting the conversion of Saddam to Christianity. Same applies for other Muslims.

Love, light and laughter is far more than a sentiment but I don't understand why you termed it a nice "sentiment", punctuated by your prayer that I'll find the truth, the way and the life. You cannot possibly understand my belief system as I do not recall our having a conversation about it. You may relax your mind as I already know well, my truths. The way is clear to me and my life is peaceful and full. Although I'm not sure what it is you're wishing for me, if it is pure and from the heart then it has value. My signature salutation: love, light and laughter, is just a way of life. Something I wish for everyone. It holds no relation to my spirituality or anyone else's. I simply wish everyone these experiences in their daily lives.

There is nothing I find intolerable in anyone's spiritual belief system as long as they keep it in check. Whether one smudges, lights incense, lights candles, prays to one god or five, meditates, engages in self flagellation, it doesn't matter to me if it fills them up and they don't hurt anyone in the process. It is good for each person to decide what is right for themselves. I do not proselytize because I beleive it to be inappropriate to do so. It is disrespectful to purposefully attempt to convert others by being unable to have a conversation without constant interjections about it. You've probably met people like that...the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormon's, Fundamentalist Christians, etc., who knock on people's doors for the specific purpose of "spreading the word", according to them and which ever book they carry. Each person should practise whatever they believe, while respecting and honouring everyone else enough to allow them the same lattitude, without judgments. It is my belief that if someone has adequate interest in exploring a particular faith, they will surely do so.

Clearly, many of us here have different views about this war, our government, religion/spirituality, lifestyle...just as we have different tastes in everything else in our lives. The bottom line is that it's all ok. Merely different. If we can agree on that point, then it's a positive thing.

I posted on the subject of this war, because I have friends who are experiencing stresses and anxiety about the ramifications of it. It was intended to open a dialogue and give everyone an op to say how they were feeling about it. Sad, upset, afraid, worried about loved one's/friends who may be in country. I wouldn't like to have us end up at one another's throats over it. That would be sad. I still think it's a fine idea to discuss how we feel on an emotional level but perhaps it's best to dispense with our intellectualizing? This is not the appropriate forum for that aspect of it. Many of us have quite enough to deal with already and it's not a good thing to resort to judgments of one another with the resulting negative consequences. We're here to share our bc experiences, help one another through the tough spots when we can and hopefully everyone of us benefits in the process. I will not post any further about the political side of the war. Only my feelings about what's happening to everyone involved and the suffering, which brings me sadness. As always, I wish you

Love, light and laughter,
Ink