Hey There Ladies!

At some point, even if we are not dying right at the moment, we all have to come to terms with the fact that we will die someday. I think it is something we should be able to talk about, since it is unavoidable for everyone, anyway. I have side effects from each drug I take, AND my markers are slowly increasing...chemo almost killed me, so I might be running out of options unless I want to risk it again. Is there anyone out there who is not afraid to die? What do you believe about it, or have experienced from the death of others? I know it is a difficult thing to talk about, but I don't think we should be afraid to support one another even in the face of death. Our society really doesn't talk about it much...

maggs said:

At some point, even if we are not dying right at the moment, we all have to come to terms with the fact that we will die someday. I think it is something we should be able to talk about, since it is unavoidable for everyone, anyway. I have side effects from each drug I take, AND my markers are slowly increasing...chemo almost killed me, so I might be running out of options unless I want to risk it again. Is there anyone out there who is not afraid to die? What do you believe about it, or have experienced from the death of others? I know it is a difficult thing to talk about, but I don't think we should be afraid to support one another even in the face of death. Our society really doesn't talk about it much...

Hi Maggs:

I'm sorry to hear that your markers are increasing. Do keep in mind that these markers are still a somewhat new tool for the docs and they're just really learning how to use them. As explained to me by my doc, after I finished chemo and learned that checking them would be a routine part of my follow ups, she said: the tumor markers are not exact and we are just learning what they mean and how to use them as an evaluation tool. She further explained to me that things other than cancer can effect the numbers and that unless they get up there and remain up, only then do they begin to look for a reason, with further testing, etc.. If a person is having symptoms AND the markers are considerably up, then they begin looking for a reason immediately. She told me that often, no reason can be found, particularly when no specific symptoms accompany the rise. In other words, we can't yet hang our hats on the marker numbers alone. For whatever that's worth, I wanted to share it with you.

About dying: I think for most people, it's more a fear of the unknown. Notwithstanding whatever belief system we choose to live by, when it comes time to die, and if we have the time to contemplate it, none of us knows, for certain, what's out there or what happens to that "essence" of us...our souls or spirits, if you will. When we're relatively young and have not had a full life span, the very idea of dying seems a big cheat. An unfair thing to have happen. Perhaps we're not ready to say good bye to our loved ones and our lives here. Maybe we're not "finished" living or loving yet. But when we're older, maybe we are more accepting of this natural conclusion to our lives here? Less afraid of that unknown and more ready to say our good byes and let go. Maybe this isn't always related to "age" and the time we've spent here but there seems to be a connection.

We utilize such a tiny fraction of our brains in a conscious manner and so many times, it seems to be that our brains take over and save us extreme fear and anguish, when death is near or in any time of great emotional pain. Most of us have heard of someone, who is dying, actually having conversations with very dear ones who passed away years and years before. Many people attach a religious and/or spiritual reason to that happening. Much of science attaches other reasons. A scientific explanation is that when we are experiencing extreme stress, the emotional centers of our brain create or return to the more satisfying experiences of our lives and that can often involve someone we loved very deeply and dearly. A sort of "protective" mechanism. It makes sense to me that if we also have a particular religious/spiritual belief system, this also comes into play and may explain why some people who are dying may say that a particular loved one has "come for them", etc.. We're such complex creatures and it's absolutely overwhelming what our brains can do and create. Extreme grief/bereavement can also cause us to "see" our deceased loved one visiting us or bringing us messages and the like "from the other side" or we feel their presence strongly.
The reverse seems to happen too. When we lose someone dear or experience extreme emotional pain or shock, we can again suffer effects of all our previous losses and hurts in our lives as our emotions sort of tie it all together in some way.
Like people suffering PTSD or disassociative disorders, because it's just all too much and one event seems to sets it all in motion.

I have friends who are believers in traditional religions, eastern religions, agnostics and athiests. With this eclectic group, the subject of death comes up and we've had more than a few conversations on this subject. From that, it does seem that there is a direct relation to what one believes in and what one experiences at death. There is also a difference in how different belief systems effect one's preparation for death. The only thing I haven't decided for myself is whether or not it is preferable to know that death is coming or to have it come suddenly and unexpectedly. I think there are benefits and negatives to each.

I would say, today, that I am not afraid to die. Yet, if I had weeks or months advance notice, so to speak, would I remain unafraid? Would I live any differently, if I knew my time to die was within a certain time frame? Probably not as I live in a way that if I died tomorrow, there wouldn't be anything important left unsaid or undone. Yet I can't know for sure until I find myself in that position. The raw truth is that from the day we're born, our bodies are dying. Not unlike a vegetable garden plant, the seed becomes the plant, which grows in a certain, genetically prescribed fashion. It will likely thrive and produce fruit but not if fungus or certain other diseases attack. A spring hailstorm can kill the plant before it ever has the chance to bloom. Genetic and/or environmental factors can shorten the plants lifespan or it can thrive, survive and die a natural death with Fall's first frost, just as nature intended. I think we all want to live until our time of frost and so we have the surgeries, take the drugs, fortify ourselves with supplements, healthy diets and healthier lifestyles in an effort to live longer and live well. Yet, as survivors, we know better than many, that there are no guarantees. The tough part is in learning to live in a way that reflects that fact, without constant fears and worries which sap our strength and debilitate us emotionally. Again, the root of so much of our fear, seems to be the fear of dying. Those of us who have been through a lot of physical pain, side effects and complications, also have fears of experiencing that kind of pain again. That fear is well justified too! We are faced with so many questions and so many issues and the truth is that the answers can only be found inside ourselves. Only we can decide how long we want to fight, how far we're willing to go in order to continue living, what risks we're willing to take. Only we can decide when we're willing to say: OK, enough, I'm going out in my own way. No one else can make that decision for us. No one else should ever try.

As you said, Maggs, we're all going to die at some point. It's a natural conclusion to living. The only question is when. I think the majority of us though, tend to live our lives with little or no serious thought to our own dying, which places us in a bit of a fantasy mode of living. If we could think more often and deal more often with the fact that we're all going to die, we may live better and more completely. I agree with you that as a society, we don't discuss it well or often and mostly avoid the subject. Yet it is a very real and undeniable part of our living and I think its a good thing to acknowledge it and kick it around a bit. Yet we cannot develope a perspective if we do not think about it or talk about it openly and honestly.

A thing which happens sometimes is that some people who do know they are dying, have many regrets about this or that. I think that's probably the saddest thing of all. To die with regrets about one's living. Yet, if we talked more about it and got rid of some of our fears about it, perhaps we'd be less likely to have regrets about how we chose to live. Many will say they just didn't realize or know and that their lives seemed to go by so quickly or their children grew up while they were so busy with other things in life and they missed out on a lot, which suddenly seems important. Sort of a day late and a dollar short realization. I think I fear that kind of scenario more than I would ever fear dying. Yet if I went about my merry way with no thought to the fact that my lifetime is indeed limited, I'd likely end up with regrets when my time arrived. Seems logical to give some thought to the fact that death is indeed coming...through a fall down the stairs, on the highway, a sudden fatal heart attack, disease, illness, syndrome or condition (and less often, drowning,suicide or murder)and none of knows when it's coming or how painful or quiet the passing will be. Particularly, we don't know if we'll have time to say any goodbyes or have a second chance to try to repair any regrets we may have.
Better, to my way of thinking, to see to it that everyday is well lived in loving and giving and leaving no doubt in the minds of your loved ones that they matter a great deal to you. If it sneaks up on me, then I'm good to go, so to speak.
Not that I'd want to go, if given a choice, but I'd be OK in the knowledge that none of my life's stones had grown moss and that I did my best not to fiddle while Rome was burning.

It's a tremendous subject and one I think we could benefit from discussing more often and more thoroughly and I'm not uncomfortable talking about it here. As we strive to live better, it seems only natural to me that we also strive to find perspective about and a more conscious understanding of the fact that we're all going to die. To share our thoughts about it. Another way to support one another. I think it's great, Maggs, that you've opened a dialogue about it.
It has been said many times, that nothing is taboo here. So, amidst the sermons, our sharing of experiences, pain and gain, pain and disappointment, triumph and newly found strengths, we can also certainly share our thoughts and feelings about death and dying and perhaps benefit from it in the process.

Love, light and laughter,
Ink

maggs said:

At some point, even if we are not dying right at the moment, we all have to come to terms with the fact that we will die someday. I think it is something we should be able to talk about, since it is unavoidable for everyone, anyway. I have side effects from each drug I take, AND my markers are slowly increasing...chemo almost killed me, so I might be running out of options unless I want to risk it again. Is there anyone out there who is not afraid to die? What do you believe about it, or have experienced from the death of others? I know it is a difficult thing to talk about, but I don't think we should be afraid to support one another even in the face of death. Our society really doesn't talk about it much...

Hey Maggs, your message touched me and, yes, we should talk about death. I am not afraid to die because I have come to know God much more deeply since having breast cancer. We all fear suffering but to fear death is silly; it will be just like being born, a good experience. Our Guardian Angels will draw close to us at the end and perhaps we will be able to see them again, as we did when we were young. We will close our eyes, breath our last and when we open them, we will see God. Won't that be fabulous? To actually see the maker of the universe and get a hug from him.
If you doubt, just close your eyes and ask God to prove he is real to you and then be prepared for something wonderful and amazing to happen.
LinPifer