What would you do?

Salty5
Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member
edited May 28 in Prostate Cancer #1

83 year old in otherwise good health—sexually active
March 2022—TURP procedure. Surgical pathology exam positive for prostate cancer with Gleeson score 3+4=7
Decided on active watching with PSA measurement and follow up with urologist at 6 month intervals.

Nov 2022: 1.9
Jun 2023: 2.8
Dec 2023: 2.9
May 2024: 3.4

Urologist has urged me to start radiation treatment from the beginning. I have a follow up meeting next week and I am anticipating an even more robust opinion from him about starting treatment.

I do not want to compromise my sex life.

Any advice, comments, sharing of similar experience will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks—

Comments

  • Clevelandguy
    Clevelandguy Member Posts: 1,177 Member

    Hi,

    First of all if it was me I would want to know if the cancer is contained inside of the Prostate. A PMSA PET scan should show you that. I would opt for Proton treatment or Cyberkife. Proton has a fixed beam length and does not go past the target to limit damage past the cancer. With Cyberknife you will need some form of gel between your Prostate and Rectum so the beam does not damage the Rectum. 3+4 is kind of on the aggressive side so knowing where it is inside of your Prostate I feel is important.

    Dave 3+4

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thank you, this is good information to have and discuss during my meeting next week.

  • jc5549
    jc5549 Member Posts: 57 Member

    I would want to know if you have had an MRI. I believe it is less likely to have metastatic disease with a PSA of 3.4. I would wonder if you have other worrisome PIRAD lesions that should be biopsied and if that would increase your Gleason group risk.

    Good luck and please keep us updated.

    jc

  • Old Salt
    Old Salt Member Posts: 1,505 Member

    Although the (2022) TURP procedure showed you had cancer, I think that a biopsy is needed to find out more about the current status of your prostate. How many lesions etc. I agree with jc that an MRI would be an excellent starting point, prior to the biopsy.

  • centralPA
    centralPA Member Posts: 322 Member

    What was your PSA before the TURP? Trend? Your prostate volume? How much tissue was removed during the TURP?

  • On_A_Journey
    On_A_Journey Member Posts: 132 Member

    Hello @Salty5, here's my 2c.

    Gleason 3+4 is pretty normal at time of diagnosis but despite that, your PSA is actually below normal range for someone your age. Your PSA doubling time is somewhere near 24 months; a doubling time of 3 months is panic stations, and a doubling time of 9 months is the usual indicator to intervene immediately. Roughly speaking.

    I would like you to consider this: Your cancer is present but not overly aggressive now. Let's suppose that it might turn nasty in a year or two and it might need some sort of intervention at some stage after that. Who's to say that by the time you are in your late 80's you wouldn't lose sexual function anyway? Don't take this the wrong way, but it seems like you value your sex life higher than your actual life. You are in an enviable position. For someone in your situation, your potency is a bonus. May as well keep enjoying it knowing that it could end anytime naturally anyway!

    My completely uneducated assumption is that you are the guy who will die with, not of, prostate cancer. Serious question - what is your life expectancy? If your target is 90 for instance, it's probably not worth treating your cancer now if the potential side effects are unpalatable to you. But it is definitely worth continually monitoring your cancer with regular PSA blood tests and scans; at least it will give you options. Keep going with active watching!

  • VascodaGama
    VascodaGama Member Posts: 3,701 Member
    edited May 25 #8

    I agree with On- journey's opinion. If you are worried that a treatment would prejudice your sexy life, then do nothing. Radiation treatment of the prostate may prejudice your performance.

    NCCN guidelines do not recommend radical treatments in patients of your age. How about discussing with your doctor in using antiandrogens intermittently.

    Best

    VG

    https://www.nccn.org/guidelines/patients

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thank you for your response. I have not had an MRI, but it is a good topic to broach with my Urologist at the follow up.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thank you, I am grateful for the several responses to my issue. The cancer diagnosis is based on analysis of the bits of my prostate that were flushed out during the TURP procedure. I have no idea how the TURP procedure affects the physical condition of the prostate. I picture it as "mangled", but I need to explore this issue with my Urologist.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thank you, I haven't thought of the ideas you mentioned. I will explore with my Urologist.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    During the period 2005-2008, I had 4 PSA tests. Resulsts varied from 0.7-1.9. At that point, I decided to stop PSA tests because of the uncertainty about the reliability of the test, and perhaps, I just didn't want to know.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member
    edited May 28 #13

    Thank you. You have pretty much nailed my current attitude. I realize that I am lucky that my primary worry is loss of sexual function, and that there are many men on this forum with very serious health concerns. I appreciate your comments and advice.

    Edit: This was meant to respond to On-A-Journey and the follow up by VG. I have no idea why it is not associated with your comments, but thank you again.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thanks again to everyone who responded. The information provided and opinions expressed are incredibly helpful to me.

    I tried to reply to everyone, but because of the structure of the forum, I'm not certain that I did so. If I missed anyone, I apologize.

    Thank you. You have pretty much nailed my current attitude. I realize that I am lucky that my primary worry is loss of sexual function, and that there are many men on this forum with very serious health concerns. I appreciate your comments and advice.

  • RodgerM
    RodgerM Member Posts: 63 Member

    how was your TURP .. did you have LUTS lower urinary track symptoms. How was the procedure and the recovery and what symptoms where u having and have they resolved due to the TURP.
    Interesting your psa’s are so “normal range” and you have a Gleason score of 7. And they know this from prostate pcs they captured during the TURP procedure ?


    I wonder if your TURP gives you less issues and symptoms due to the procedure from treatment. Maybe worth asking?

    They did my MRI first instead of dealing with my symptoms .. and since a high pirads score the focus moves towards a diagnosis of cancer or not .

    I’m just in my early 60 waiting on my biopsy results, and dealing with these persistent urinary track issues .

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    I did not have LUTS before or after TURP. My whole issue was related to urination difficulty. I started with Urolift which was done without anesthetic and was very painful. This Eurolift did not work, so after about a year, I opted for TURP. In both cases, blood clots were a major side effect which took me to the ER and ultimately the hospital for a couple of days. After returning from the hospital, I had to wear a catheter for a week or so.

    Bottom line, ultimately TURP worked for me and I am free of urinary symptoms. Yes, the cancer was discovered after biopsy on the bits of prostate recovered from the procedure. I have no idea if there is a connection between my TURP procedure and my lack of symptoms (other than PSA anxiety every 6 months) related to the prostate cancer.

    I hope this helps, let me know if you have additional questions or comments. I feel for you while you are waiting on the biopsy results and hope they are negative for cancer.

  • jc5549
    jc5549 Member Posts: 57 Member
    edited May 31 #17

    I would not expect an MRI prior to TURP without an elevated PSA.
    Now that you have the diagnosis of prostate cancer at 83 years of age and your doctor is suggesting treating it, I strongly encourage you to get an MRI. If there are no significant PIRAD lesions then you have T1a or T1b disease. You may do very well with observation only. It should take 10 years for your prostate cancer to become problematic, you will be 93 years old in 10 yrs.
    If you do have significant PIRAD lesions then a biopsy seems very reasonable and you will make a more informed decision about follow on treatment such as radiation.

    Just my two cents,

    jc

  • RodgerM
    RodgerM Member Posts: 63 Member

    Yes, LUTS is urinary difficulty’s .
    What kind of difficulty were you having .

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    Thank you, I did meet with my Urologist yesterday to discuss my latest PSA result. He is no longer suggesting treatment. We will continue on the active watching protocol.

  • Salty5
    Salty5 Member Posts: 11 Member

    I couldn't pee