Correlations

Hi there,

My prostate weighed in at 46g with a size of 5 x 4 x 4 cm and I would say that I have lost very little off my non erect length. I had some partial erections before beginning hormone treatment and I would say that I had lost very little of my erect length as well.

Best wishes,

Georges

My prostate weighed 38 grams after RP and I lost 2+ inches after surgery which never was recovered during extensive penile rehabilitation. My Uro, when I asked him before surgery, answered, it might be some small loss up to 1 cm which is less then 1/2 of inche, and that might be recovered during rehab.

I lost 5x+ his max loss of length. 

If I would be told the truth, I would avoid RP like a plaque. Definitely, RP totally ruined my life at age of 51.

MK

Grinder said:

not helpful

I no longer recommend this site to friends and relatives facing prostate issues, especially PC... despite all the important information relayed by de Gama, Max, Rob et al. That's also why I rarely come here anymore...

 

Since MK will not listen I am speaking to others now. With my background in research, I know for a fact that anytime you are dealing with differing outcomes, you have to consider what VARIABLES led to different outcomes.

Many robotic prostatectomy patients have had great outcomes, recovering from their incontinence and erectile dysfunction issues, some very quickly.

If some have a great experience, and it saved their lives, and some had worse experiences, and their incontinence and ED issues persisted... then there are VARIABLES that are diffetent between successful surgeries and unsuccessful surgeries.

Our goal in this forum, at least my goal, is to DISCOVER WHAT THOSE VARIABLES ARE so future patients can judge whether RP is their best option, or another procedure is their best option.

To express moral outrage at RP in general is intellectually dishonest. If MK will not help future patients figure WHAT WENT WRONG with his RP that resulted in his ED, he is not helping them. Only by discovering what went wrong can a future patient compare his VARIABLES to MK's and if there are similarities, opt out... or if there are no similarities in those VARIABLES, then RP is an important procedure to have.

It is NOT ENOUGH to condemn it wholesale because the existence of so many SUCCESSFUL SURGERIES says something went wrong in MK's surgery that made it unsuccessful. 

The size of the prostate may be a variable that someone with a massive prostate should consider when weighing their options, especially if a two inch loss of penile length would be catastrophic for a patient... How can anyone argue about that?

Just for the record, I have no interest in MK and his supporters ganging up on me now, and couldn't care less. If anyone cannot see that there are VARIABLES that make the difference between SUCCESSFUL surgery and UNSUCCESSFUL surgery, then there is no discussion to be had.

It is very disappointing that I cannot recommend this site anymore, otherwise future patients will be scared away from robotic prostatectomy without consulting with their doctor which procedure would be best for them.

 

 

Grinder,

Why writing about own experience and saying that RP ruined my life is dishonest? Did I say anything about your and other people RP?

No, I did not.

i wrote in details about my recovery and RP aftermath. I don’t have anything hidden. Any one can go back and read my notes.

Here are my variables:

Age 51@ time of diagnosis and surgery. -  good variable 

Very good health with no chronic conditions. -  good variable 

Very good physical shape excercising 4-6 times a week and still do it. - good variable 

No signs of ED before RP ( never tried any ED drugs). -  good variable 

TURP( actually mini TuRP for bladder neck resection for urinary obstruction)  - bad variable 

Erection first night post TURP with catheter still in  - good variable 

No erectile problems after TURP, only retrograde ejaculation. -  good variable

Small prostate, only 38 grams post RP. -  good variable

Bilateral nerve sparing -  good variable 

Also pelvic limphnodes were removed - total of 8  (negative)

No qualitative descriptions of nerve sparing like excelent, very good, moderate or satisfactory -  possibly something happened 

Extensive bladder neck reconstruction -  could be negative variable ( lightwood had also extensive bladder neck reconstruction and recovered erectile function to 75% of pre RP quality and he is approx 15 years older)

Surgery took 5.5 hours, longer then planned. Prostate shape changed, possibly by previous surgery-  bad variable 

Severe pain post op for a week.

Never gat any other explanation from my surgeon then everything went good.

At 6 weeks post RP visit, my surgeon asked if I already popped one (erection) which i felt as an insult.

My first orgasm after RP was at 6 months post RP which usually happens way earlier to many patients.

Did not have any feelpings in my penis and genital area for about 6 months. Was not sure what I was pulling out of my pants until seeing it.

Never experienced any feeling and spontaneous response for 22 months. Not a smallest sign of life after RP.

I was shorter right after RP and my penis continued to loose length. I lost 2+ inches after RP and also girth. It was just like pre-pubescent 

penis despite aggressive penile rehab.

Comparing my total pre RP state, health, physical shape and erectile function, I was in the 85 percentile.

Recovered urinary continence by 13 weeks post RP with still stress incontinece present by this date.

if any one on this forum thinks after reading this post that I SHOULD PRICE RP AND MY OUTCOME USING SUPERLATIVES , I will do that for sake of others, but then, that will be DISHONEST from me.

MK

Hi All,

Good discusssion on the topic but there are no good or bad procedures when it comes to treating Pca.  I feel it’s a personal decision that each individual must make based on their specific set of “conditions”.  Everyone is different with the doctors they have to choose from and the facility’s and equipment that will be used by those doctors.  The results will vary based on what I have just stated. I had robotic surgery and would do it again, others have had bad experiences with surgery and the same can be said for the different forms of radiation treatment.  Pick your poison and learn to live with your decision because when the “procedure” is done there is no going back.  Don’t be bitter but learn on how to live with the result and move forward. My surgery was not perfect but if I have to wear a light pad for the rest of my life to catch the occasional dribble so be it, I have adapted and don’t let it slow me down.

Life is too short to dwell on the past and let it start to consume you.

Dave 3+4

Grinder said:

My apologies

Georges...

I did not mean to implicate you in my reference to verbal abuse. I probably should have used a more delicate term...

Before you joined in mid 2018, Da Vinci surgery was a hotly contested subject. I was being adamant that variables MUST be considered in a patient's choice of treatment. And those variables, some of them listed above, could help guide the patient's decision.

I was then involved in a controversy that was being driven by emotions rather than reasoning... which was a disservice to future patients that might come to this forun looking for advice.

For example, what you just mentioned, that I am pointing out and have never heard correlated... the size of the prostate is a variable in the length of urethra that will be surgically removed, affecting the penile length.

Maybe I missed it, but I have not heard of any urologist informing PC patient's of this variable. But I can see it make a HUGE difference in the decision. 

Permission to speak freely... someone with "limited length" to begin with, and an enlarged prostate of massive size, should seriously reconsider RP as a treatment, due to deleterious side effects.

Anyone who remembers me knows I am big on Da Vinci RP because it was the perfect solution for me... but I weighed all the variables in my case. Someone with a different set of variables may come to a different conclusion. Two of those variables could be pre-op penile length and prostate size.

I am not sure why I am not explaining this properly... but in my experience, don't expect your Uroligist to cover all these variables and how they will weigh in potential side effects, and how that would influence a patient's decision... Experience and expertise of the surgeon being very important but rarely stressed.

Grinder,

Anyone who has been at this Board, or other Boards (like me), at times feels it has become worthless.  Personalities differ.  I have been at the Lymphoma Board several years longer than here at PCa.  More than once I have butted heads with a few individuals there, whose views differ from mine, and left for times.  I've even been asked to leave on one occasion.   I hope you hang around, but understand either way.   When an interesting, thoughtful person goes away, it leaves a void.  Some of you remember Kongo -- a wonderful man; sort of 'another Vasco' in his knowledge level.  One day he was there; the next day, not. No one knows why.  Bless his memory.

I respect any writer who supports his views with data, and who is open to the bigger pictures in life.  I have never been an 'Advocate' of any form of treatment here, and of course most of the other men here are not either.  But when someone becomes rabid in their statements, and forever just repeats the same sad song, it is hard to see how they have something of benefit to share.   Worse than that, they are presenting 'information' here that is false as regards the most common outcomes, and this could skew readers' thoughts.   Such writing is a disservice here.  You are correct to express frustration with such individuals, and ultimately, not caring what they share is the healthiest response.  I hope to continue encountering you here, if I myself am around.  No one appointed me Hall Monitor of this elementary school, but everyone in the class at times feels like shouting, "Shut up !"

max