Measurement on CT Scans

Sandy.

My observation is as a layman so take it with a grain of salt. The CT measures 3d dimensions and variances do occur. A mm is such a tinylength. At 5.7-7.3 cm it is time to get it out.

Icemantoo

Measurements are sometimes as much an art as a science, although I must say 1.6 cm is quite an artistic license.  But even with the same equipment at the same hospital, a different radiologist reading the report can cause some discrepancy in the measurements.  I could see a potential discrepancy if an ultrasound was give, but the test modes were the same.

when it's taken out, the path report will include all three dimensions.  Mine was something like 1.8 x 1.5 x 1.3.

Many things can change the measurement: positioning of the patient, breathing, landmarking by the CT tech, choosing which slice/image to measure the tumor, choosing where the start/end is for the tumor etc. Basically anything/anyone from the machine to the patient to the operator to the radiologist can affect the measurement, which is why the ultimate measurement depends on the pathology report (although even that one is subjected to measurement error). It is hard to say whether the tumor actually shrank or it's just a measurement deviation. But either way, a couple important reminders if you haven't done so: 1) inform your doctor and pharmacist of the naturopathic treatment he's on, drug interaction is very common even when people think their treatment is "natural"; 2) do let naturopathy supplement the traditional treatment approach, but please don't ever let it become the main treatment without talking with a doctor

sandy23 said:

Hi Steve,

Hi Steve,

I was wondering what your's actually ended up measuring.  Just curious, why did they do a radical rather than partial?  I apologize if you already explained that in another post.

The reason was that a partial would have been difficult and only about a third of the kidney would have remained.  The tumour was on the lower lobe but growing in to the area where the ureter attaches.

I would have preferred a partial at the time but now I don't mind the whole thing being gone because the whole tumour is gone too.

sandy23 said:

Do you remember what your CT

Do you remember what your CT scan measurements were?

My first CT scan was in December, 2013, and at that time, they reported it as 1.5cm.  Just the one dimension.  Subseuqent measurements by other hospitals and by other modes (I had both CT and ultrasound) either showed roughly the same measurement in the case of the CT (1.5 or 1.6 cm) or, in the case of the ultrasound, it didn't show any lesion at all.  My urologist came in after the US and exclaimed "It's a miracle!" in a loud booming voice all up and down the hallway and after we both had a laugh, he said I would need to get a CT instead.  That's when he told me that measurements are as much an art as a science.

First of all, tumors are not a uniform shape. They can be very, very oddly shaped. What is usually given is the maximum dimension. Secondly, CTs are quite blurry. It can be difficult to find the edges. I'd say the measurement you get from a scan is more like a gross estimate.

They won't know the real dimensions until they get it out, slice it up, and find all the edges/margins (where the tumor stops and healthy tissue starts) then you'll get worst case size in 3 dimensions.

The stuff they tell you off the scans are all guesses.

The pathology will tell you dimensions, staging (you have to know where the tumor grew into to know the difference between Stage 1/2 and 3, for example. The main difference between 1 and 2 is the size, but the main difference between 1/2 and 3 is whether it grew into any of the veins/arteries. These could even be internal veins/arteries in the kidney itself. Stage 4 really means other tumors outside the kidney have been found. Then there is the "grade", which is a measure of how abnormal the cells are. Grades go 1-4, 4 being the most abnormal and thus of most concern.

Of course, there's the type of cancer. They can't really tell this either without getting it out and looking under a microscope. You might get some preliminary information from a biopsy, but tumors may not be uniform in their grade either. Renal Cell Carcinoma is the one most of us have and clear cell type is the most common. But there are other cancers you can have in the kidney.

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Todd

stub1969 said:

Kat's our expert

Sandy, my original scan indicated my tumor was larger than it actually was after they took it out.  I think the original measurement was at 6 cm and it measured 5.3 on the pathology report.   I'm glad we have a person to turn to for these type of questions.  Thanks again, Kat!

Stub

You're welcome!